I need some suggestions

[GemmaUK]

I am overseeing a project with a seconded to the job (seconded meaning she has been taken out of her own role temporarily to run the internal side of the project) colleague at work.

My 'overseeing' involves:

Making sure we get the purchase order from the customer and being the second check for it being correct.

Training the seconder to understand the importance of the internal Excel file we are using so that anyone with dealings on this project can view it, understand it, rely on it for being the 'bible' if you like. None of the people using it have edit access to it aside from myself and the seconder. This project began in it's pilot stage in April, began in reality in late May, got busy in June and will continue now until mid August so the training has all been done. Due to the pilot and then the actual start the training was done twice over due to slight differences in requirements but also to cover off anything new and so that the seconder had all of the info she needed to do the role.

Anything out of the ordinary, eg cancellations or switch arounds between days used or staff used are for me to guide the seconder in how the handling needs to be.

Any queries over costs or revenue - I have trained the seconder and actively 'shown' how to handle and who to go to.

I am also reviewing revenue, reviewing costs, making sure all is correct so that we are ready to bill the customer.

I am keeping an eye on invoices coming in - making sure they go for approval timely, forecasting upcoming payments to our Financial Accountant - some of the invoices coming in are due upon receipt, some are net 30 days.

We do have issues in our Accounts Payable dept. though which will take time to resolve - hence why I am forecasting and also currently recording when payments have been made.

I also took over coding the invoices to take the pressure off our AP team.

 

I am having problems though with the seconder.

The problems and what I have done already is in bold.

.

Problem: Cost queries she will not query. She can see them but will sit on them waiting until we get to a point where something 'different' happens and the something different is a valid thing I need to help her with. Unfortunately the valid thing doesn't relate to the cost query.

What I have done: Since the beginning I have told her meetings, via mail, IM and verbally that her absolute first point of contact is a lady named Liz, she is running the project at a higher level, she supplies the costs, revenue, dates.

Verbally I have told the seconder on MANY occasions to contact Liz the moment (in bold because I have stressed it to be really important) she sees an invoice which has a different cost to that which Liz has supplied.

Just this week myself and the seconder had to get together over some items where we needed to make sure that our database, spreadsheet reflected correctly what we needed them to.

The seconder first off gave me a list of invoices - which she had sat on since the previous week (so were already late for approval) where she had queries over costs.

I asked her what had come of her querying these costs with Liz, she said she hadn't asked.

She then asked who do I go to for cost queries?

I replied 'Liz - always and first. If Liz cannot help and a cost is not what she was expecting then 'we' go to the supplier' to query it.

The seconder is fully aware that I will guide her in what to say to the supplier - the seconder is not articulate in emails to the supplier so as not to leave us as a business wide open to being charged what they like, The seconder will send me her wording, I edit and she sends my edit.

My question: How do I ensure that the seconder will contact Liz? I have told her many times. The Sales Manager is aware of this issue - we are both trying to make the point clear that cost queries need to be addressed once seen - the last thing we want is the seconder to be the one 'at fault' for delays and we have both told the seconder this too.

 

Problem: She is removing valid costs from the internal Excel file and our database where cancellations happen but where valid costs are incurred.

What I have done Again this is something that has come up several times and I have advised (so many times) that a cancellation cost or a cost invoiced against a cancelled item is still a cost. The seconder will just delete these costs from the excel file and database though.

My question: How do I make her understand that a cost is stilll a cost to the business? She was seconded from Customer Services so is very aware that cancellations incur costs - either, just a cost to the customer or a cost to the customer as well as to our business.

 

 

Problem: She has been trained and knows how to sum values in the spreadsheet but is consistently making errors or is not adding a sum at all but typing in a value which is more often than not, different to the value which the total should be.

She is leaving many sums blank also.

Plus, she has begun to change costs to make them the gross values, not net values.

What I have done This project is close - so close to acceptable margin so myself and several others made it very clear from the beginning that one of the purposes of the internal excel file and the file which Liz keeps was to track margin.

I have worked alongside Liz many times before and I know (as does she) that she needs guidance on 'how to' when we get to numbers. Liz is perfectly fine with this and would much rather have that conversation, be guided - and then we all understand.

Liz is also perfectly happy to help with any cost queries.

We are on a tight margin with this project so rightly, our FD and MD are wanting details of it and monitoring - especially now that we are this far in.

All of this has been communicated from the start and each week since this project began to the seconder but we are hitting bigger issues with the above problems.

I've asked her to make sure she adds net costs about 4 times. I have asked her to check her sums and make them all sums about 6 times and I have asked her to ensure all sums are there for each row over six times.

I used the FD as an 'excuse' this week asking 'would you please make sure sums are in and correct as our FD needs to do some analysis for the MD. He needs to get it to him asap so it needs doing as priority. I copied the FD in as a 'back up' to this email also.

24 hrs later I had a few moments to check and it had not been done.

Next week the FD and MD will absolutely be on this .

My question: How do I encourage her to do this? I have fully trained her on sums in excel and I have watched her do them confidently on screen so the issue isn't there.

 

 

Problem:

She is not sending invoices for approval when they need to be sent.

She is not sending the invoices to the correct people with the correct sign off limits.

What I have done She has a list of approval people, levels of sign off and also has notes as to whether an approver needs showing where to find costs in order that they have something to approve £7K to or for over £10K she has instructions as to who it should go to and what they need to know.

I am actually just covering anything over £10K - because I have given up trying to communicate!

Most is under £10K thankfully - sort of.

I gave up sending items under £10K out for approval the week before last (where a lot of cost queries were but these were not urgent invoices.

Anything urgent I am checking and chasing her.

 

How do I address these issues and get the point across please? Do any of you have suggestions on how to get someone to be pro-active?

 

I am not seconded in any way btw.

I am still doing my own job, guiding a new Finance Director (in place 8 weeks but on his own for 2) and currently working with him on the Financial Plan for 2018-19 which I am always pretty heavily involved in.

The past 8 weeks I have worked pretty much solid 12 hour days as it is and I am totally exhausted.

 

I know this is a big ask for anyone reading but any tips could help - any my goodness I will give them a go!

[preraph]

She's not listening, so she's not going to be doing a good job. My suggestion is put it in writing, like rules. What she's supposed to do, when she's supposed to do it, and who her first contact will be for each thing. Put on there when she's supposed to do it. If it all needs to be resolved daily, put "daily," etc.

 

Copy your manager on it if you want and let her know you had to take this step because she's not listening so you wanted to write things down so she can refer to it. This is you doing extra work, so I don't see how you can be faulted for going the extra mile to get her on track.

 

If not contacting Liz is the biggest thing she's ignoring, there's probably some reason for it, like fear or laziness, but if that continues to be a problem, put an actual printed sign over her desk

 

"CONTACT LIZ immediately for:"

etc.

 

The best thing about putting it in writing is now she can't blame you for something that she herself neglected to do and say she didn't know or you didn't tell her or she thought you were doing it. So cover your butt here and give her this aide in case she's just not a good learner.

[UpwardForward]

Everything you tell her - or have told her, should now be in writing.

 

Ask her to sign that she understands and will follow through.

[GemmaUK]

She's not listening, so she's not going to be doing a good job. My suggestion is put it in writing, like rules. What she's supposed to do, when she's supposed to do it, and who her first contact will be for each thing. Put on there when she's supposed to do it. If it all needs to be resolved daily, put "daily," etc.

 

Copy your manager on it if you want and let her know you had to take this step because she's not listening so you wanted to write things down so she can refer to it. This is you doing extra work, so I don't see how you can be faulted for going the extra mile to get her on track.

 

If not contacting Liz is the biggest thing she's ignoring, there's probably some reason for it, like fear or laziness, but if that continues to be a problem, put an actual printed sign over her desk

 

"CONTACT LIZ immediately for:"

etc.

 

The best thing about putting it in writing is now she can't blame you for something that she herself neglected to do and say she didn't know or you didn't tell her or she thought you were doing it. So cover your butt here and give her this aide in case she's just not a good learner.

 

 

I won't put a sign up on her desk - partly because it has been obvious that her manager Customer Services Manager is totally NOT interested in this project. All Meetings including subsequent following the first the CS Manager has sat there looking over to the right/left as far away as her eyes can go.

She is not interested, is 'supposed to be the back up'. Doesn't give a ****!

 

The rest - I'll get on it next week - send an email and copy all - to the seconder, copying Liz plus including my boss (the FD) the Sales Manager, CS Manager and the man who asked me to oversee also, our Solutions Manager - whom I need to talk to - he will listen too when I say it's not working well.

 

You know when things get so hectic but something simple can help?

You may well have it!

I will give it an serious try! Luckily for me the Sales Manager is paying attention to emails but many are not. The Sales Manager is usually not on my side either - she is Sales, I'm Finance! We fight! Naturally! Lol!

 

I will write a draft email tomorrow to make it 'not the seconder's fault' but 'important' - diplomatic in others words.

 

Thanks Peraph. 100% appreciated.

 

My FD told me there are plans to do a £1ML project next year, This one is only £250K. myself and the FD had a chat as to whether it was a realistic expectation that it would or could be something I could oversee. But we would need someone strong/er to internally Project Manage. right now - we wing it and we second to good people who actually can't hack it. I cover.

 

Any other suggestions please do add - I HAVE to work something out fast because this project s falling apart internally and fast running - the end customer loves it! Which is good news!

[GemmaUK]

Everything you tell her - or have told her, should now be in writing.

 

Ask her to sign that she understands and will follow through.

 

Signing won't happen - it's not a 'thing' It's easy going at my place in a way where it's been too easy going. We're not at that point yet. I can be vocal though.

We have a whole change of Management - in 2/6/8/12 weeks 0 new MD (experienced, new Sales Director - experienced, new FD - not experienced but being guided well by me, the MD..etc.... - people who do care and listen. They want change same as me.

 

But 'the rules' will happen - per Peraph and yourself. I'll work on that tomorrow.

 

Thank you!

[preraph]

I won't put a sign up on her desk - partly because it has been obvious that her manager Customer Services Manager is totally NOT interested in this project. All Meetings including subsequent following the first the CS Manager has sat there looking over to the right/left as far away as her eyes can go.

She is not interested, is 'supposed to be the back up'. Doesn't give a ****!

 

The rest - I'll get on it next week - send an email and copy all - to the seconder, copying Liz plus including my boss (the FD) the Sales Manager, CS Manager and the man who asked me to oversee also, our Solutions Manager - whom I need to talk to - he will listen too when I say it's not working well.

 

You know when things get so hectic but something simple can help?

You may well have it!

I will give it an serious try! Luckily for me the Sales Manager is paying attention to emails but many are not. The Sales Manager is usually not on my side either - she is Sales, I'm Finance! We fight! Naturally! Lol!

 

I will write a draft email tomorrow to make it 'not the seconder's fault' but 'important' - diplomatic in others words.

 

Thanks Peraph. 100% appreciated.

 

My FD told me there are plans to do a £1ML project next year, This one is only £250K. myself and the FD had a chat as to whether it was a realistic expectation that it would or could be something I could oversee. But we would need someone strong/er to internally Project Manage. right now - we wing it and we second to good people who actually can't hack it. I cover.

 

Any other suggestions please do add - I HAVE to work something out fast because this project s falling apart internally and fast running - the end customer loves it! Which is good news!

 

Ugh. Well, if you've got a disinterested CS Manager, then I don't trust people like that and so even more reason to put things in writing. I'd put anything to CS Manager in writing too in case her disinterest becomes neglect and she needs a scapegoat, you have your butt covered there too. Good idea copying those extra people on it. It might prompt one of them to start paying more attention to what's going on.

 

I like the idea above of having her sign it, but it's kind of a move you might make if there's no improvement because people know it's usually a "warning" often prompted by HR ahead of a termination, so just take into consideration how that would be perceived at your place of work. But no one can fault you for helping her out with instructions.

[GemmaUK]

Ugh. Well, if you've got a disinterested CS Manager, then I don't trust people like that and so even more reason to put things in writing. I'd put anything to CS Manager in writing too in case her disinterest becomes neglect and she needs a scapegoat, you have your butt covered there too. Good idea copying those extra people on it. It might prompt one of them to start paying more attention to what's going on.

 

I like the idea above of having her sign it, but it's kind of a move you might make if there's no improvement because people know it's usually a "warning" often prompted by HR ahead of a termination, so just take into consideration how that would be perceived at your place of work. But no one can fault you for helping her out with instructions.

 

 

It's tricky, the CS Manager (and for that matter the Sales manager) don't like me too much - but the Sales Manager is more - grown up about it? She knows it's part of the business - but also if I am going to her then there is something not working.

She is more mature.

The CS manager - our new FD has a little crush on her - it's obvious. Cute to see - but obvious! It won't help though...

 

The CS Manager though has taken no seat let alone a back one - the Sales Manager HAS questioned things.

I will include all relevant staff.

 

I admit, I am so exhausted, been working for 8 weeks, 12 hour days and my mind is numb - I'm so glad I asked this question. I couldn't give myself head time to think about it.

[preraph]

And if that woman doesn't work out, keep those instructions for the next one!

[Mr. Lucky]

Any other suggestions please do add - I HAVE to work something out fast because this project s falling apart internally and fast running - the end customer loves it! Which is good news!

 

In this day and age, why would you be using Excel for this type of project management? There are a number of better software programs available, most of which would have the advantage of more intuitive use and better checks and balances...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GemmaUK]

And if that woman doesn't work out, keep those instructions for the next one!

 

She was seconded because she's the best person they have in Customer Services.

I will give her credit for being better at making sure the revenue gets on the system on time.

The last person seconded when we had a project of this type of size some 6 years ago didn't see a need for revenue to be on our database so that we could invoice the customer on time.

I fell into overseeing that one as I caught it 3 days before we needed to bill. £170K was missing in bookings & revenue from our database.

 

Smaller projects since then, there was no need to second anyone but since that project I do get asked to oversee maybe one project a year.

[GemmaUK]

In this day and age, why would you be using Excel for this type of project management? There are a number of better software programs available, most of which would have the advantage of more intuitive use and better checks and balances...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

That's a very good question Mr L and more pertinent than you even realise!

I will pm you about that.

 

It's most definitely something I will be asking before this project is over.

Due to this one being such a fast paced project and the fact it's more than half way through though it won't be something brought in for this one.

 

We have new management (some of whom are new in, some who have a lot of knowledge but through discussions - especially this week were unaware of how some things are done - or not done), forward thinking management who are (thankfully) up for change, improved processes, having processes even(!!) and just in the past 2-8 weeks it's clear they listen. In the last two weeks we've made more changes than in all of the ten years I've worked there.

[Mr. Lucky]

That's a very good question Mr L and more pertinent than you even realise!

I will pm you about that.

 

Read your PM, it all makes sense. One thing I've learned, nothing scares people more than change. That's one reason I enjoy working with young people, they don't say "but we've always done it that way"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GemmaUK]

Read your PM, it all makes sense. One thing I've learned, nothing scares people more than change. That's one reason I enjoy working with young people, they don't say "but we've always done it that way"...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I guess what makes it more difficult to understand is that the extended issues included in my pm (hence my reason for sorting just this part out) are coming from people who are a bit older and a bit younger than me. My age group essentially.

That's why I don't get it. I certainly don't understand the lengths they're going to to stop any change.

[GemmaUK]

Interesting day.

 

 

There wasn't much point in sending the instructions.

For one thing they didn't get read.

 

Come 10am the seconder send me her cost queries..

I advise her..again..that she needs to contact Liz for cost queries.

She then does contact Liz around an hour later to discover Liz - the one responsible for the all of the organisation (making sure the customer requirements are met and liaising with the supplier over all of the costs and also supplying us with the revenue has an out of office set tellin gus she is on holiday for 2 weeks.

 

No hand-over to anyone, no warning she was to be on holiday.

 

Someone else has agreed to pick things up - he called me today - asking what he should do about the cost query................

Not only that but saying he is going to need guidance.

 

Well, I guess that'll be down to me then!

 

Thanks anyway for the advice and replies

[Mr. Lucky]

In their dysfunction lies your job security. Hang in there...

 

Mr. Lucky

[preraph]

Yeah, but in two weeks, you remind her again to use the instructions. Tell her she has two whole weeks to familiarize herself with them!!

[GemmaUK]

Well unfortunately, things got worse this week with the PM cover going on holiday too.

 

I pretty much have no words.

 

Other issues in my own department have escalated also.

 

Thanks for the replies

This thread is a closed one though. It would take too much to even explain.

[GemmaUK]

Thankfully, on this particular project I've been offered some help.

It's become a very sensitive at high level so the basics absolutely need precision.

This would be so easy if I had time to micro-manage it but I don't.

 

I found out last week that I do, however, need to micro manage it within my own team and the aspects which should have controls in place actually don't have any and several unapproved invoices which are in query and pointed out to be so (by me) have already been paid. The AP Manager should have checked for approvals but didn't prior to payments being made.

 

The person who is to help me out does have the time to micro- manage the seconder though.

Handover was meant to be Friday but my help went off sick so it's going to be tomorrow - fingers crossed!

 

ETA: It's on! Just had a call to confirm!

Edited July 29, 2018 by GemmaUK

[GemmaUK]

Project deemed too high level for the help.

Totally ridiculous.

That's my day today gone and half a day tomorrow already gone.

No doubt there will be further time needed on this later in the week.

 

Then it all kicked off and I almost walked out at 8.50am.

The majority of my day has been spent covering several people who cannot do their jobs - high level right down to very low level.

 

I'm on a work to rule.

I'm also proper upset.