Husband is a mess

[karenina21]

Hello,

 

So here's my situation and I really need some ideas.

 

My husband was laid off from his job at the end of March after 7 years. He had always been a good employee and was promoted a couple of times. The place got bought out by another company and brought in their own people. He was one of several let go. He's a senior network engineer with certifications in HP and VMWare and made a good salary over $100K. We lived comfortably on that.

 

I own my own business but have been struggling to make it profitable. I have considered going back to a corporate career regardless of my husband's situation, for the income stability. However, the reason I started my own business was to be able to work out of my home and be flexible where needed, because I have a chronic medical condition which forced me out of my last corporate job as a VP at a bank.

 

My husband got on unemployment and had several interviews and two offers from March to now. Both offers weren't great. They were nearly $30K pay cuts and our payments for insurance would be $650 to $800 a month - for two people. He rejected the first offer as it was just too big of a pay cut and too long a commute, plus only 1 week of vacation time. The second offer was in our state at a very small company. He's used to working all over the world on very big projects. I asked him if he thought he'd be bored at this new place or if he'd be able to use what he's certified in. He told me based on interviews at the place that they were growing, that they liked his skill set, and that they thought he could learn the things he needed to learn (a new area of cloud computing that he doesn't know now).

 

I had wanted him to keep looking, as he hadn't been out of work for long, but he wanted to take the second offer. He said he was bored of being home and it was a job for now. I was very apprehensive of having to pay on our own for insurance through the exchange since this place didn't offer healthcare to its employees. It also was cheap on the vacation, two weeks, when he had four weeks in his old job. They also wouldn't budge on the salary. I reluctantly agreed for him to take it because while we have enough to survive for six months we don't have any more than that, and we agreed that he could keep his eyes open if this new job isn't ideal. We also agreed it would be good for him to learn new skills if this opportunity afforded that. He was of the understanding that they wanted him to learn more about cloud networking with Azure.

 

Well, he's three days in, and for the past three days he's come home dejected and a complete mess emotionally. He has never been this way in the 17 years we've been together. I'm talking sobbing and crying that he's been depressed for two months, that he's having a breakdown, and can't handle it. He feels he made a major mistake because so far, he says, this place doesn't do any of the things he used to do, and the things he's being tasked with are mundane and boring, or else he doesn't know how to do them. He tried to ask his new boss about training and certifications, and the man blew him off basically saying he doesn't expect him to get certifications right away and for him to shadow this other senior engineer.

 

My husband claims the people at this place are nice, but he hasn't taken a lunch break in the three days he's been there. I'm not sure if that's because he's overwhelmed or because of this person he's shadowing or what. He came home yesterday and began wailing in the bathroom saying he feels like a failure because he couldn't figure out stuff and he's trying to find his way.

 

I keep telling him that he has to give this job a chance and that nobody knows how a place works in one day. I also asked if perhaps they're trying to ease him in and just get him used to stuff before doing higher level stuff, and he told me he didn't think they were interested in growing and that when he asked some of the other engineers if they'd ever done a certain thing he'd done before, they said they'd never heard of it. So did this place lie during the interview, or what? They wanted an engineer with 8-15 years of experience and the skill set he has...so it doesn't make sense that they'd only have him doing lower-level help desk stuff?

 

I also told him that your self worth is not tied to a job, that he's not a failure, and that this job isn't the only one he'll ever have for the rest of his life. He asked how he can job hunt if he can't take time off from this new place. I told him nights and weekends he can look and also on his lunch break. I said for him to tell potential interviewers that he can speak or meet them before work, at lunchtime, or after work, and to say that he is presently working a temporary position and that he can't take time off during the day.

 

I believe he is nursing anger and wounded pride over being let go from the former employer and taking the pay cut, but he has to get over that. Again, this new place might not be what he wants or likes and might be a step back, but it's not forever and this kind of stuff happens to good people all the time.

 

I can't sleep at night because I'm so worried about his mental health and our financial stability. I'm in the middle of upgrading my business website and paying for marketing, with the hope that it helps my business grow. I'm under contract for the marketing for six months. So if I get another corporate job for stability and benefits, I'll be paying for that but my business will languish because I'll only be able to work on it during nights and weekends, and my business requires phone calls and meeting with clients. I'll also be risking my health due to my chronic condition. But if he's a mental mess and setting himself up for failure at this new place, I am very fearful that they'll let him go, and I'm not sure he'd be able to collect.

 

I told him last night that he has to get it together or quit. But if he quits, again, we have six months of savings and whatever I can bring in, and that's it. Does anyone have any advice on what we can do?

[BluesPower]

He is very depressed...

 

Is he on meds? Has he gone to the doctor?

 

I understand where he is coming from and it is a hard thing to take.

 

But he has to get something to help him through this until his head is back together.

 

Sometimes, when this stuff happens, esp in this field, you have to take a lower paying job, and work your way back up. I am not saying that it is easy but it happens a lot.

 

Further, I don't know where you live, but there are places in Texas, AZ, Florida, and other states that cannot find enough people for this stuff. They have to take kids and train them which takes forever.

 

And look, the cloud stuff is just another way to look at networks and servers, the basic concepts are all the same.

 

But, he has to see a doc and get straight so he can take charge and be a star wherever he lands.

[bathtub-row]

Sometimes, as grown-ups, we have to take jobs we don’t like so that the bills get paid. This is basically where your husband is at but he doesn’t seem to get the importance of that or the value of just having a job that pays the bills.

 

Nothing says this position has to be forever. He can keep looking while he’s there. I’m not sure why he’s so upset unless he’s having trouble changing his mindset or he’s just disappointed in himself. You may need to help him readjust his attitude and perspective on things. This kind of stress and way of thinking isn’t serving him in any way.

[bathtub-row]

He is very depressed...

 

Is he on meds? Has he gone to the doctor?

 

Just curious - why is the first reaction to go to a doctor and take drugs?

[Mr. Lucky]

He is very depressed...

 

Is he on meds? Has he gone to the doctor?

 

karenina21, I agree 100% and am a little surprised at your passivity in dealing with this. Do you think being "dejected and a complete mess emotionally" and "sobbing and crying, wailing in the bathroom" are normal reactions to first-week job issues?

 

Not only has he told you he's having a breakdown, his actions back that up. Do you have a friend or family member that might help you make him see the importance of treatment? More at risk here than just your savings...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BluesPower]

Just curious - why is the first reaction to go to a doctor and take drugs?

 

Because guys... This level of depression is very unpredictable and dangerous.

 

It needs to be handled by a professional...

[bathtub-row]

Because guys... This level of depression is very unpredictable and dangerous.

 

It needs to be handled by a professional...

 

Ok. Yeah, his reaction is pretty much off the charts. Maybe you’re right. Something is really wrong here.

[karenina21]

Hi,

 

Someone asked why I've been passive in my response. I really haven't. I've just been shocked at his behavior (it's out of nowhere), I haven't know what to say or do in response, and I'm also trying to process it.

 

He hasn't spoken with his family in a month and he didn't want to tell our friends he got laid off. His family is out of state and we only see them twice a year. Nobody knows about this situation except my family. I told them because I needed their support. I've kept telling him to please speak with his family and that nobody is going to judge him if he tells them what's going on, and that they will be supportive. I've wanted to tell his brother what's going on. He's very close to his brother. But I feel like if I say anything to his family or our friends, going over his wishes, he won't forgive me.

 

As far as having him see a doctor, he pooh-poohs doctors. I have to nag him to see a doctor until he's sick enough that he has to. So while I agree there is something extreme going on here, getting him to see a doctor or talk to a counselor might not be as easy as telling him to go.

 

I don't know what else to do. Again, in 17 years he has never acted like this. If he's a mess again tonight, I'm half tempted to tell him to just quit the damn job if he's that miserable and we'll have to get by until he finds another one that's a better fit. That way he can spend 100% of his time job hunting and interviewing, because he can't take time off at this new place to interview so unless potential companies agree for him to speak to them or come in off-hours, he'll have little chance to find something. I'm also going to tell him I think he needs help to cope. I don't think he'll go for it, but I can try.

 

Meanwhile I think I'm going to have to find another corporate job that pays steady and decent money and put my business aside because I could make more money in a steady corporate position and get benefits. I don't know what is going to happen. I'm afraid of bringing on a new attack of my chronic condition due to the stress of the past couple months. I myself have been enduring sleeplessness and anxiety attacks which I haven't experienced since my father passed in 2015.

[karenina21]

Bluespower,

 

We live in New England outside of Boston, where there are jobs in his sector but it's also competitive.

[BluesPower]

Hi,

 

Someone asked why I've been passive in my response. I really haven't. I've just been shocked at his behavior (it's out of nowhere), I haven't know what to say or do in response, and I'm also trying to process it.

 

He hasn't spoken with his family in a month and he didn't want to tell our friends he got laid off. His family is out of state and we only see them twice a year. Nobody knows about this situation except my family. I told them because I needed their support. I've kept telling him to please speak with his family and that nobody is going to judge him if he tells them what's going on, and that they will be supportive. I've wanted to tell his brother what's going on. He's very close to his brother. But I feel like if I say anything to his family or our friends, going over his wishes, he won't forgive me.

 

As far as having him see a doctor, he pooh-poohs doctors. I have to nag him to see a doctor until he's sick enough that he has to. So while I agree there is something extreme going on here, getting him to see a doctor or talk to a counselor might not be as easy as telling him to go.

 

I don't know what else to do. Again, in 17 years he has never acted like this. If he's a mess again tonight, I'm half tempted to tell him to just quit the damn job if he's that miserable and we'll have to get by until he finds another one that's a better fit. That way he can spend 100% of his time job hunting and interviewing, because he can't take time off at this new place to interview so unless potential companies agree for him to speak to them or come in off-hours, he'll have little chance to find something. I'm also going to tell him I think he needs help to cope. I don't think he'll go for it, but I can try.

 

Meanwhile I think I'm going to have to find another corporate job that pays steady and decent money and put my business aside because I could make more money in a steady corporate position and get benefits. I don't know what is going to happen. I'm afraid of bringing on a new attack of my chronic condition due to the stress of the past couple months. I myself have been enduring sleeplessness and anxiety attacks which I haven't experienced since my father passed in 2015.

 

If you love your husband... You will force the issue.

 

You need to give him no choice in the matter. You may have to get extreme.

 

Listen I have been here with people before, and I am telling you that you have no choice.

 

The usually dynamic between H and W here is gone. You are going to have to throw any kind of fit you have to, to make him see a doc.

 

And, go to the Appt with him so he does not minimize his behavior.

 

Look, I don't want to scare you unnecessarily. But by what you describe, your husband is in real trouble and you have to do whatever is necessary including threating DIVORCE if he does not LET YOU take him to the doc.

[karenina21]

Won't that tip him over the edge?

[bathtub-row]

By not telling anyone else about this, he’s isolating himself even more - and you’re letting him. If I were you, I’d talk to his brother. This needs to be dealt with and he needs to get a grip.

 

Just a side question - do you think there’s more to this issue under the surface that you’re not aware of? Do you think he might’ve had a love interest at the old company he was at? I’m just throwing ideas out there because he’s going off the deep end for some reason and the reason he’s giving seems disproportionate to what’s going on.

[bathtub-row]

Won't that tip him over the edge?

 

I think the point is, it’ll wake him up.

[karenina21]

bathtub_row,

 

I've always been able to reach him at the old job whenever I needed to, and I knew all of his colleagues, who are all men.

[karenina21]

If I tell them, I don't know what he'll do. But if he - we - continue to be isolated, that isn't going to work, either.

[bathtub-row]

bathtub_row,

 

I've always been able to reach him at the old job whenever I needed to, and I knew all of his colleagues, who are all men.

 

Well, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Most wives are completely clueless about that kind of thing because a lot of men hide it very well. Anyway, I’m sure you’re right. I just keep wondering if something deeper is going on.

[karenina21]

I tried to text him today to ask how he's doing. No response yet.

 

I'm not trying to be big brother, but I checked our bank account to see if he took money out or if there was an entry from a restaurant, to see if he'd eaten lunch. I haven't seen anything which means he probably hasn't eaten today either.

 

What the **** is up with this ****? He's never acted this way. He was gung ho about taking this job last week saying it would be nice to have a job in the state, that even with a pay cut we'll be fine, it'll give him a chance to learn something new, etc. etc. etc. So what the hell is up with the complete 180?

[Mr. Lucky]

What the **** is up with this ****? He's never acted this way.

 

Time to get his brother involved. You sound overwhelmed, bring in reinforcements. No shame in any of this so don't let him go it alone any longer...

 

Mr. Lucky

[bathtub-row]

If I tell them, I don't know what he'll do. But if he - we - continue to be isolated, that isn't going to work, either.

 

I’d be more afraid of what he’s doing now. If he gets pissed off about it, then let him know you did it out of love for him. Believe me, if you acted the way he’s acting, he probably wouldn’t hesitate to do whatever it took to stop you from hurting.

 

Any chance of you telling his brother what’s going on, and then his brother plays dumb and acts like he’s stopping by out of the blue?

[d0nnivain]

Coming home sobbing is definitely out of the norm. That would scare me. Do tell him that you worry about him but reassure him that you are so happy that he trusts you enough to show you when he's really hurting.

 

 

Ask him what he wants. Make him spell it out. He wants something like his old job back with that salary. Now talk about concrete solutions to achieve that. Remind him of a couple of things:

 

1. this job is a stop gap so there is some $$$ coming in. It's not his life's work.

 

 

2. He doesn't have to work there forever & should keep looking / interviewing / networking to find something more fulfilling . Help him look for a new job. I actually found my husband's present job.

 

 

3. tell him you love him & you are proud of him! You can't emphasize those 2 enough. He's not defined by his employer.

 

 

4. He has to pay attention to his mental & physical health.

 

 

Now, you start making him breakfast & lunch. I understand you are trying to run a business but you are also trying to keep your husband alive & sane. If you can't get him to sit for breakfast, handing him some sort of bar or even protein shake when you send him out in the morning gets calories in him. Keep fresh fruit on hand. Anybody can eat an apple or banana on the go. Stick a sandwich in a brown bag for him so he can eat as his desk. By law he's entitled to 1/2 hour lunch & his company can be fined if he's not paid. Impress upon him the need to take care of himself.

 

You keep looking for a job for you if you think you can hack it. If you are genuinely concerned that you don't have the physical stamina at least ramp up your business. Go see people at your local SBDC. Re-work your written business plan & marketing plan. Add at least one in person networking function to your day so you can turn a profit. Consider taking a class through SCORE.org

[karenina21]

d0nnivain,

 

I already told him all of these things several times and I will keep telling him.

 

bathtub_row,

 

His family is all out of state. So his brother could play dumb and call but he may not take the call or call him back.

 

To the comment about ramping up my business,

 

I am working with a marketing company to do just that and have implemented suggestions/strategies from the organizations you list. It doesn't happen overnight.

[d0nnivain]

Understood. As long as you are rowing with multiple oars sometimes that is all you can do.

[bathtub-row]

d0nnivain,

 

I already told him all of these things several times and I will keep telling him.

 

bathtub_row,

 

His family is all out of state. So his brother could play dumb and call but he may not take the call or call him back.

 

To the comment about ramping up my business,

 

I am working with a marketing company to do just that and have implemented suggestions/strategies from the organizations you list. It doesn't happen overnight.

 

Ok. Well, I’d still talk to his brother. Maybe together the two of you can come up with a plan.

[beatcuff]

wow, can we slow down. sometimes walking is better than 'you better or i will divorce you'. yep, he will really open up to you the next time he has an issue. the key is in the first post:

...this place doesn't do any of the things he used to do, and the things he's being tasked with are mundane and boring, or else he doesn't know how to do them. He tried to ask his new boss about training and certifications, and the man blew him off basically saying he doesn't expect him to get certifications right away and for him to shadow this other senior engineer...he feels like a failure because he couldn't figure out stuff and he's trying to find his way.

it appears he thought he was better than he was and/or i suspect he thought 'small company/small pay' this will be easy. worse he thinks they think he is not as good as they thought. where in actuality his skill set is different than what this company needs (v the last one). small companies tend to have 'generalists' while bigs tend to have specialists.

 

the first step is to get him to tell you ---- see the bold above. once you have that we can then give you better direction.

 

please PLEASE be super supportive: "let's figure this out together", "you done a great job supporting me, my turn [by helping you figure this out]", "you are great [insert job title here]". nothing negative: about him, the job, his decision to take it...

Edited June 7, 2018 by beatcuff
spacing

[Mr. Lucky]

His family is all out of state. So his brother could play dumb and call but he may not take the call or call him back.

 

Might be time to ask brother to make a trip to you. You need help, your husband won't ask and you risk having things get much worse. I wouldn't wait...

 

Mr. Lucky