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Has anyone here worked and lived in Amsterdam? I've been there 3 times so I know it as a tourist but wonder what it's like to work and live there? Thanks.

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Mind-Chants

In one of my threads about Europe, username "No_Go" mentioned that she had worked in NL. I think you should DM her.

 

Very different IME. I worked 4 years in NL, now going on 4th in US.

You can expect much more consistent schedule, more holiday days, generally lower number of working hours in Europe. This also comes with less competitive culture and slower progression within/between companies.

If you ask more specific questions, I'll share more experiences (Germany is different than NL, but not that much I think).

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Has anyone here worked and lived in Amsterdam? I've been there 3 times so I know it as a tourist but wonder what it's like to work and live there? Thanks.

 

Have a friend who is a uni lecturer at a Uni there.

 

Been there 5 years, she loves it.

 

She loves the slower pace to LDN.

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Have a friend who is a uni lecturer at a Uni there.

 

Been there 5 years, she loves it.

 

She loves the slower pace to LDN.

I hear it's pretty social and while learning Dutch is obviously a very good thing, you can get by well speaking English. The Dutch are also well traveled.

 

Won't lie, I'm considering it. If there is a brain drain from the UK to Berlin and Amsterdam with tech and finance firms going, I won't stick around either.

 

I'd be curious if anyone has had negative experiences living there.

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Pros and Cons of Moving to the Netherlands | Expat Arrivals

 

Many more out there, someone told me this was brief but pretty good.

Yes thank you. Read the one on Berlin too, that's a bit harder to gauge because employment levels aren't that high but apparently that's what startups are looking at right now, as well as multis.

 

More than 100 of London's tech startups consider moving to Berlin post-Brexit | Europe | News | The Independent

 

Brexit potentially will have a big boost for the rest of Western Europe.

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I studied, worked and lived in the Netherlands, 4 years of my time there was in Amsterdam. Generally I was happy with my experience there. I didn't speak a word of Dutch when I arrived and it has never been a problem. Everybody speaks English. People are generally friendly and helpful, a bit reserved though. Work conditions are great. I had 8.5 weeks per year! of paid holiday, they decreased it to 5.5 weeks which caused tons of protests:) People are generally keeping good work-life balance, you can work on 4 day week (4 d x10 h instead of 5 d x8 h) if that suits your needs better, most parents do that.

 

Let me know if you want to know anything specific.

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Thanks No_Go! The post is great. I'm curious about the overall feeling of living there, how you are treated, etc.

 

I get the impression that the Dutch are well traveled and educated - would you say it's possible to generalise like that?

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People are generally very helpful. The may appear unfriendly, but that is just because they are direct compared to other cultures (e.g. if you compare the Dutch attitude to British or American).

 

I looked at the expat's article, it is generally correct, but I disagree wiith 2 things:

1) efficient healthcare: IME health care is veeeery slow. If you go to the Dr they usually tell you to come back in two weeks if the pain is not going away :D But my experience is limited

2) Dutch knowledge is not a must. Literally everyone speaks English + 2-3 other languages Sure you'll integrate better if you learn Dutch though

 

Well traveled and educated - yes! I feel like they spend most of their expendable income on travel! It is not uncommon people to take e.g. the whole August off work to travel. Most people learn 4 languages in school and are generally well-cultured. However, there is no competitiveness in education. Coming from Eastern Europe where it is all about grades, it kind of shocked me :D All major universities are about the same level, pretty good.

 

They are very much into street festivals etc, you can meet people there e.g. King's day, Sinterklaas and other local holidays.

 

Thanks No_Go! The post is great. I'm curious about the overall feeling of living there, how you are treated, etc.

 

I get the impression that the Dutch are well traveled and educated - would you say it's possible to generalise like that?

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People are generally very helpful. The may appear unfriendly, but that is just because they are direct compared to other cultures (e.g. if you compare the Dutch attitude to British or American).

 

I looked at the expat's article, it is generally correct, but I disagree wiith 2 things:

1) efficient healthcare: IME health care is veeeery slow. If you go to the Dr they usually tell you to come back in two weeks if the pain is not going away :D But my experience is limited

2) Dutch knowledge is not a must. Literally everyone speaks English + 2-3 other languages Sure you'll integrate better if you learn Dutch though

 

Well traveled and educated - yes! I feel like they spend most of their expendable income on travel! It is not uncommon people to take e.g. the whole August off work to travel. Most people learn 4 languages in school and are generally well-cultured. However, there is no competitiveness in education. Coming from Eastern Europe where it is all about grades, it kind of shocked me :D All major universities are about the same level, pretty good.

 

They are very much into street festivals etc, you can meet people there e.g. King's day, Sinterklaas and other local holidays.

That's pretty awesome, thanks. Eastern European here too so I know what you mean about competitive education, I went to selective schools and was shocked that here in the UK that wasn't a given at all.

 

Did you travel around much outside Amsterdam?

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Mind-Chants
Has anyone here worked and lived in Amsterdam? I've been there 3 times so I know it as a tourist but wonder what it's like to work and live there? Thanks.

 

I have traveled there only once on a business trip. My experience is pretty much limited. Few things I have noticed: -

1. Look in any direction, within your eyesight you will definitely find something ORANGE. So if Orange color overwhelms you, this city is not for you. :D

2. Things close early (by 7 - 8 PM).

3. Unlike Paris and Rome (people are very helpful there), people actually understand and speak English.

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I have traveled there only once on a business trip. My experience is pretty much limited. Few things I have noticed: -

1. Look in any direction, within your eyesight you will definitely find something ORANGE. So if Orange color overwhelms you, this city is not for you. :D

2. Things close early (by 7 - 8 PM).

3. Unlike Paris and Rome (people are very helpful there), people actually understand and speak English.

Haha I do like Amsterdam, I find it very easy to get around. If more jobs move there from the UK, it will be definitely worth the consideration.

 

I'll be curious to see how you get on in Germany.

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Yes, I travelled all around The Netherlands - everything is so close!

If you plan living in a city outside the big ones (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hague, Utrecht), I think the only negative is that the shops close earlier and do not work on Sundays (they may have changed that though, Albert Heijn supermarkets were already open on Sundays when I left 3 years ago).

Train system is generally very convenient (also for international travel - Brussels is I think on only 2 h, Paris on 4 h etc). Many of my coworkers would train-commute daily.

 

That's pretty awesome, thanks. Eastern European here too so I know what you mean about competitive education, I went to selective schools and was shocked that here in the UK that wasn't a given at all.

 

Did you travel around much outside Amsterdam?

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I haven't lived there but we have set up our international corporate office there and I am involved in the set up and hiring/set up of direct hires and ex pats. So may be able to help answer any questions. :)

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I haven't lived there but we have set up our international corporate office there and I am involved in the set up and hiring/set up of direct hires and ex pats. So may be able to help answer any questions. :)

Thanks!

 

What does the work culture look like from the outside?

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Thanks!

 

What does the work culture look like from the outside?

 

Compared to where? For our EU employees, comparable. For our US employees a bit more of a change. It is far more easy going and work life balance is far better. We are still adjusting to our European counterparts and their time off, remote work duties, etc. We have employees in US, Dubai, UK and now in Netherlands and the latter is the most robust on employee benefits.

 

Most of our employees have the need of vehicles (mostly for their positions) and car allowances are common. There is a lot of accessibility by bike. Housing is comparable to some of the other countries we are. Dubai has stood out the most for us on what is expected at management level.

 

Biggest issues we are dealing on an employee front is the 30% tax. There is a waiver for it that drops it to 20/22 (can't remember) but qualifications around it. This is is a bigger deal for those coming from Dubai, which has no income tax, to Netherlands.

 

English is primarily spoken (we will have store fronts there and haven't crossed the bridge yet on what is expected at that level for bilingual) and seems to be by most.

 

So far everyone who isn't originally from there has settled in nicely and are seemingly very happy. I have someone from my department that is looking to head up our side over there as an ex pat. We are looking into some medical concerns to see the coverage but she has already found they are more advanced than what we have in the US.

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The NL has a works council that is very employee-centric. I have worked occassionally on projects in Eindhoven and AMS. I would live there. (Not that helpful, but it's what I know)

 

If you go South like Rotterdam, find out the culture of your community, (ex. Luthern) because the neighbours will freak if you hang your washing out on a Sunday.

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Compared to where? For our EU employees, comparable. For our US employees a bit more of a change. It is far more easy going and work life balance is far better. We are still adjusting to our European counterparts and their time off, remote work duties, etc. We have employees in US, Dubai, UK and now in Netherlands and the latter is the most robust on employee benefits.

 

Most of our employees have the need of vehicles (mostly for their positions) and car allowances are common. There is a lot of accessibility by bike. Housing is comparable to some of the other countries we are. Dubai has stood out the most for us on what is expected at management level.

 

Biggest issues we are dealing on an employee front is the 30% tax. There is a waiver for it that drops it to 20/22 (can't remember) but qualifications around it. This is is a bigger deal for those coming from Dubai, which has no income tax, to Netherlands.

 

English is primarily spoken (we will have store fronts there and haven't crossed the bridge yet on what is expected at that level for bilingual) and seems to be by most.

 

So far everyone who isn't originally from there has settled in nicely and are seemingly very happy. I have someone from my department that is looking to head up our side over there as an ex pat. We are looking into some medical concerns to see the coverage but she has already found they are more advanced than what we have in the US.

Great overview, thank you!

The NL has a works council that is very employee-centric. I have worked occassionally on projects in Eindhoven and AMS. I would live there. (Not that helpful, but it's what I know)

 

If you go South like Rotterdam, find out the culture of your community, (ex. Luthern) because the neighbours will freak if you hang your washing out on a Sunday.

Very helpful, I'm curious about anything that's outside the Amsterdam bubble (it seems to be a bubble from the outside).

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Great overview, thank you!

 

Very helpful, I'm curious about anything that's outside the Amsterdam bubble (it seems to be a bubble from the outside).

 

I have to say The NL is one of my favourite places.

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Great overview, thank you!

 

Very helpful, I'm curious about anything that's outside the Amsterdam bubble (it seems to be a bubble from the outside).

 

 

Not so much Amsterdam on its own, more like the part of the country from Amsterdam all the way down to Rotterdam, known as de Randstad.

It's far more cosmopolitan than the rest of the country.

 

For example, outside the Randstad you'll find that a lot of (high street) shops are still closed on Sundays, and Monday mornings.

 

 

Outside of the Randstad the country can feel quite provincial at times, both in amenities and people's attitudes.

As a Dutch person going back there (I've lived in the UK for the past 15+ years) I find it quite frustrating at times.

 

I also find that the level of 'tolerance' or other races and creeds us Dutch people pride ourselves on has decreased a fair bit over the past decade or so.

 

Learning the language will help you tremendously, but it's not an easy one to master and in the Randstad at least, you can get by comfortably without it.

 

 

Work-wise it's a pretty cool place to be employed. Salary and added benefits are generally good. Holiday pay, also known as the 13th month, is great.

The place I worked at a few years ago (in Rotterdam) had a 'policy' of everybody having lunch together. You'd chip in a certain amount a week and we'd take turns popping to the supermarket to get fresh bread, sandwich fillings, fruit and drinks.

We'd put it all out on the table in the boardroom and ate together.

This practice is fairly common but it depends on the company I guess.

 

 

ETA: Healthcare is expensive. My monthly premium in 2011 was around 230 Euros per month. I was a healthy 34 year old back then.

Edited by SoulCat
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Itspointless
Not so much Amsterdam on its own, more like the part of the country from Amsterdam all the way down to Rotterdam, known as de Randstad.

It's far more cosmopolitan than the rest of the country.

I would draw the line also a bit more eastwards making up a square, say the cities you named and than from Eindhoven to Apeldoorn. Within those lines I would say that we are pretty modern :laugh:

 

Never worked abroad so cannot compare with elsewhere. Minimum vacation days here are 21 days a year or roughly said four weeks, not eight weeks.

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I would draw the line also a bit more eastwards making up a square, say the cities you named and than from Eindhoven to Apeldoorn. Within those lines I would say that we are pretty modern :laugh:

 

 

Apeldoorn? Don't make me laugh.... I grew up near there and it's a very provincial town. Certainly not on a par with A'dam, Rotterdam and The Hague etc.

 

I'd go as far as to say that beyond Utrecht, you'll pretty much find yourself in hinterland.

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Apeldoorn? Don't make me laugh.... I grew up near there and it's a very provincial town. Certainly not on a par with A'dam, Rotterdam and The Hague etc.

 

I'd go as far as to say that beyond Utrecht, you'll pretty much find yourself in hinterland.

Did I write anywhere that Apeldoorn is a metropole? Just drawing some lines here of the more crowded parts of the country.

 

Edited it a bit. My last remark was not necessary.

Edited by Itspointless
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Just drawing some lines here of the more crowded parts of the country.

 

If you read my initial post carefully you would have noticed I made a distinction between the Randstad and the rest of the country. Specifically because Emilia was asking if Amsterdam existed in its own 'bubble'.

 

I'm sure there are larger populated areas where people deem themselves hugely modern, including in Apeldoorn.

 

 

This does not detract from the fact that those areas are not considered to be part of the Randstad, nor do they compare in terms of being cosmopolitan.

 

 

Don't be sorry, we'll just agree to disagree. Simples.

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