veggirl Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 If you're fired or laid off or let go, is this something you should request or be given? I'd never heard of such a thing, but a friend told me I should ask for one. (I was "terminated" this morning via text message and a phone call I made to clarify...) Link to post Share on other sites
herself Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Oh ny goodness I am so terribly sorry to hear this. What an aweful way of handling things on the company's behalf. I hope much better things are in store for you and I wish you lots of sucess im your job search! Chin up, take any lessons out of it that you can ad to if or how you contributed to the termination but do it positively not putting yourself down. Do get on the search right away so you can stay focused and motivated. You can request a letter which should outline your severance terms but Im not sure you will get one since hr didnt take the deserved time to meet with you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ufo8mycat Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Definitely, along with your reason for termination. It has no disadvantage and if there is any risk of unfair dismissal (if that applies) you have it in writing. Keep the text messages too if it all blows over and its no big deal then you are no worse off. Link to post Share on other sites
Author veggirl Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 I worked for a small, family owned property management company so there is no HR department to go through. I got a text from the owners daughter saying "hey X said to tell you not to come in today, he will call you later" and at that point I called X. So I guess I'll email them, then. herself, thanks for the well wishes, THANKFULLY I started putting feelers out there a few weeks ago for other jobs and had a 2nd interview with a company today. This isn't why I was terminated, they have no idea I went on any interview (they were after our office hours). Link to post Share on other sites
Lipitor11 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I never heard of a place firing someone via text! Just curious, why are you wanting a letter of termination? Some places make a person "sign" some form telling a person they have been fired or they just let that person walk out the door. Link to post Share on other sites
Author veggirl Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I don't know why I want it tbh. It never crossed my mind til a friend told me to request one. He suggested it would contain the reason and it's good to have that in writing. I'd also like it to contain the date so I can be sure to get my holiday pay for yesterday....haha. I'm just so pissed. It was handled SO unprofessionally and it's obvious it was planned, but since I'd offered to work this past sunday (they were desperate for someone to do it and I volunteered), they waited til after they got what they wanted out of me. The whole thing was just so disrespectful, I went above and beyond for them consistently and this is how they let me go....I'm just still flabbergasted Edited September 2, 2014 by veggirl Link to post Share on other sites
herself Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 You deserved better. Sometimes these things happen in life to lead up to something great that you otherwise may have taken forgranted. Im really sad this happened to you but it sounds like you are about to land a better spot and just forgive that other company. Those type of actions speak to character and it will come back to them. Dust yourself off and think positive. Link to post Share on other sites
MsSmurf Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I have in the past been given a termination letter when I was laid off from a permanent job. It was part of my "pink slip packet" along with my last check and info about when my health benefits would end. At the time I'd never heard of such a thing either, but it was very helpful when I filed for unemployment because the agent I spoke with asked if I had documentation of why I was no longer employed. Having the letter from the company staying I was laid off because my position was eliminated left no further questions for unemployment and they started my claim right away. If I find myself terminated from a permanent job in the future I will ask HR for a termination letter immediately if its not offered. When I worked as a temp I was never given such a thing, but then again it is rare for a temp agency to contest unemployment claims if you complete your assignment satisfactorily. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 So sorry to hear this.... As a long time employer, I have, unfortunately let a lot of people go...Some I fired right on the spot, but usually it was pretty obvious the reason...Either way, Id never fire someone via text message....Just doesnt seem right.. Anyway, asking for a letter of termination is kind of akin to asking for an explanation for the reason a SO dumped a person...Point is, what are they going to say? Likely it will be some canned response that isnt the real reason anyway...so what is the point in the end? Id just move on...One door closes and another one opens... Good luck,, TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 So sorry to hear this.... As a long time employer, I have, unfortunately let a lot of people go...Some I fired right on the spot, but usually it was pretty obvious the reason...Either way, Id never fire someone via text message....Just doesnt seem right.. Anyway, asking for a letter of termination is kind of akin to asking for an explanation for the reason a SO dumped a person...Point is, what are they going to say? Likely it will be some canned response that isnt the real reason anyway...so what is the point in the end? Id just move on...One door closes and another one opens... Good luck,, TFY This is a good point. I got a letter of termination, but was just a generic "after evaluating your performance and overall suitability with company needs...". I was laid off a very small company recently and my boss told me as if he were talking about the weather as he walked in during the middle of my shift and I had to call a ride. It could have waited an hour. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 This is a good point. I got a letter of termination, but was just a generic "after evaluating your performance and overall suitability with company needs...". I was laid off a very small company recently and my boss told me as if he were talking about the weather as he walked in during the middle of my shift and I had to call a ride. It could have waited an hour. Man,,,and I thought I was a tough boss!... Ive only fired people in the middle of a shift if they really did something stupid, aggressively insubordinate, unlawful, etc...Call them in at the end of the day and break the news.... In almost 30 years, no one has ever asked me for such letter...I can assure you that if I was asked, Id immediately call my attorney and have him advise me or draw up the letter, as id be wary of someone trying to conjure up a lawsuit for unlawful termination..As such, it would likely read like the one you got.. Well wishes to you as well...while its a punch in the gut when it happens and its easy to internalize it as a personal failure, often its not the case....just that the fit wasnt right...or some other obscure reason.. TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Man,,,and I thought I was a tough boss!... Ive only fired people in the middle of a shift if they really did something stupid, aggressively insubordinate, unlawful, etc...Call them in at the end of the day and break the news.... In almost 30 years, no one has ever asked me for such letter...I can assure you that if I was asked, Id immediately call my attorney and have him advise me or draw up the letter, as id be wary of someone trying to conjure up a lawsuit for unlawful termination..As such, it would likely read like the one you got.. Well wishes to you as well...while its a punch in the gut when it happens and its easy to internalize it as a personal failure, often its not the case....just that the fit wasnt right...or some other obscure reason.. TFY Good point. The end was near as it was only part time...I wasn't too surprised as I was only addressing envelopes the last 2 months because there wasn't much else to do without the license. But yeah, he just walked in and wasn't even to his desk yet before he broke the bad news. He kept saying he was sorry, but he did sound like he was discussing the weather. He did offer a letter of recommendation though. I think the OP would benefit more from a good reference rather than a letter of termination if she was terminated for something other than misconduct. Link to post Share on other sites
Leigh 87 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 how indecent. If I absolutely HAD to get someone go for the good of my the company IF I were ever in that position.... I would at LEAST have the decency to offer you a fabulous reference! Unless you really were incompetent which I know you were not in this case...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 A decent employer should have no problem in providing a very basic letter confirming termination of employment and the date. However your's is not a decent employer... Just as a side note to those who have never heard of this happening before. There has been at least one company in the UK during the peak of the recession who laid off just about their entire workforce by text. Cowardly ******** 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MsSmurf Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I don't know which is worse.... ...getting a text message saying you no longer have a job ....getting a mass email saying you've been let go ....seeing commercials on tv saying the company you work for has gone out of business ....or showing up to find the doors padlocked and yes I've known people that have been notified via those methods. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 So sorry to hear this.... As a long time employer, I have, unfortunately let a lot of people go...Some I fired right on the spot, but usually it was pretty obvious the reason...Either way, Id never fire someone via text message....Just doesnt seem right.. Anyway, asking for a letter of termination is kind of akin to asking for an explanation for the reason a SO dumped a person...Point is, what are they going to say? Likely it will be some canned response that isnt the real reason anyway...so what is the point in the end? Id just move on...One door closes and another one opens... Good luck,, TFY Actually not true. Now each state varies on the requirements but some states allow the terminated employee the right to a copy or viewing of their termination form, employee file, etc. Other states do not give any such rights and so the employer is not obligated to do anything. If you pursue unemployment they will file out their paperwork giving the reasons why especially if they are challenging the unemployment. The phone hearing, unless in the few state that does face to face, would also give you the ability to hear their side though you would have received their information prior to it to prepare your case. No respectable, established company terminates without giving a reason. There should have been shown, outside of reduction of force or restructuring, progressive discipline. And no halfway decent company terminates by text. We unfortunately had a store manager do this to an employee and we wrote them up for it. It is not professional and does not follow our policies and procedures. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 This is a good point. I got a letter of termination, but was just a generic "after evaluating your performance and overall suitability with company needs...". I was laid off a very small company recently and my boss told me as if he were talking about the weather as he walked in during the middle of my shift and I had to call a ride. It could have waited an hour. Ugh I am sorry. Unfortunately this does come up for us at times, so we schedule terminations at the beginning or end of shifts. We also have employees, at the middle management level, who have company vehicles. So not to be in the same spot we have a hired car there to drive them home so we can take position of their vehicle. At a certain level I personally assist in the terminations with management. Terminations aren't fun for any of the parties. My viewpoint is, we keep it quick, respectable, and safe for all parties. So I prep the manager on what to say, as they are the ones actually terminating, I take over the ret of the meeting going over any other paperwork, last check, severance,equipment. Since the manager is the one who is in the cross hairs, I keep the meeting short and quick. I walk the employee to their vehicle, we box up any personal items, take any company property or arrange with them how to ship it in, give them my contact information as I will be their sole contact to the company going forward, and put them in a hired car to go home. It takes about 20 minutes. It isn't fun but I don't want anyone else in my department to do it as it can have some definite safety concerns. Prior to 9/11 you could meet at the airport, anyone could go through the metal detectors and you would know they wouldn't have a weapon. Nowadays I don't have the ability for this safety measure and we have employees across the US. So I have to fly in and have the meeting arranged at hotel lobbies, etc. So for myself, I fly in a couple hours prior to the meeting, get there at least 90 minutes before the meeting to both prep the manager and make sure that the employee doesn't show up early, and then I am back behind security at the airport immediately afterwards. No matter why someone is being terminated it is a humbling, potentially humiliating experience. I want to try and respect that as much as I can for the person as well as protecting the company. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Actually not true. Now each state varies on the requirements but some states allow the terminated employee the right to a copy or viewing of their termination form, employee file, etc. Other states do not give any such rights and so the employer is not obligated to do anything. All corporations from big to small fire people for the seemingly most nondescript reasons...Poor hygiene, weight gain, their cousin needs a job, etc...Do you really believe that they list those specific reasons for termination?..Never... In some cases its clear cut and documentable, in other cases it isnt...There is nothing on any books that I know of that clearly states that a company cant just give some "canned" reason....and they often do...Performance is in most cases is subjective...The employee can be a wizard...the employer can still say they arent meeting expectations...Its not like sports where people have a stat sheet that is measurable.. If you pursue unemployment they will file out their paperwork giving the reasons why especially if they are challenging the unemployment. The phone hearing, unless in the few state that does face to face, would also give you the ability to hear their side though you would have received their information prior to it to prepare your case. No respectable, established company terminates without giving a reason. There should have been shown, outside of reduction of force or restructuring, progressive discipline. And no halfway decent company terminates by text. We unfortunately had a store manager do this to an employee and we wrote them up for it. It is not professional and does not follow our policies and procedures. Agree on the second point...Ive fired dozens of employees(I dont like doing it)...I always give a reason..Its just the proper thing to do...I have also fired people just because I dont like their attitude and how they represent my company-nothing to do with performance....Ive never been even remotely questioned..Almost 30 years... The OP worked for a mom and pop...what do you think they are going to do?? Mom and pops dont keep "employee files", and if they do, its usually no more than a note scrawled on the persons folder with their resume and other docs(w4, etc)...the type of formality you are talking about, while essential for big companies..(mostly to combat frivolous termination lawsuiuts), really isnt a concern for mom and pops.. TFY Edited September 3, 2014 by thefooloftheyear 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pink_sugar Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yeah, letters of termination seem to be norm a mid size or large companies, but not smaller ones. My most recent position involved no paperwork. I also don't think they were really familiar with the usual practices since I was their only technical employee. Everyone else was 1099, including them. They probably didn't realize it was more professional to sit down and discuss what was happening. I had to ask him to repeat himself as it was so nonchalant the way he was telling me suddenly. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Agree on the second point...Ive fired dozens of employees(I dont like doing it)...I always give a reason..Its just the proper thing to do...I have also fired people just because I dont like their attitude and how they represent my company-nothing to do with performance....Ive never been even remotely questioned..Almost 30 years... The OP worked for a mom and pop...what do you think they are going to do?? Mom and pops dont keep "employee files", and if they do, its usually no more than a note scrawled on the persons folder with their resume and other docs(w4, etc)...the type of formality you are talking about, while essential for big companies..(mostly to combat frivolous termination lawsuiuts), really isnt a concern for mom and pops.. TFY Depending on the state they would be in violation and if an employee files with EEOC or DOL then they would be penalized. These laws have nothing to do with size of company though statistically the frequency of having such actions. But there is no "bye" because you are a small company. You might be able to fly under the radar but that doesn't mean you aren't actually in violation and are playing the chances. I have never understood business owners not understanding the very simple and easy CYAs that fall under employment law and the constant denial or outright refusal to follow state and federal laws. You do it in other areas, why does someone think they are exempt in this area? It is stupidity and they end up kicking and screaming and paying unnecessary expenses because of it. But whatever floats one's boat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Yeah, letters of termination seem to be norm a mid size or large companies, but not smaller ones. My most recent position involved no paperwork. I also don't think they were really familiar with the usual practices since I was their only technical employee. Everyone else was 1099, including them. They probably didn't realize it was more professional to sit down and discuss what was happening. I had to ask him to repeat himself as it was so nonchalant the way he was telling me suddenly. So everyone else is 1099? Lol. Okay that is a whole OTHER area where they could be in violation. A lot of companies will try and skirt their responsibilities by having 1099s. But if they are directly controlling their employee's days and duties and the 1099 employees do not act as full contractors where they have control over their days and duties it is in violation of the DOL. Here is a good article on it: 1099 vs Employee: You Need to Know the Difference - 10 til 2 All it takes is one employee (faster if they know the laws) and file suit to suddenly rain down reality on a business owner, both small and large. We see this especially in CA. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Here is a link to all the state laws and the rights to view personnel files. Access to Personnel Files: 50 State Laws - HR Specialist What is required in regards to pay at termination per each state Terminated Employee Pay Laws by State State Labor Laws: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/state.htm 2 Link to post Share on other sites
NYC-BigKat Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I don't know why I want it tbh. It never crossed my mind til a friend told me to request one. He suggested it would contain the reason and it's good to have that in writing. I'd also like it to contain the date so I can be sure to get my holiday pay for yesterday....haha. I'm just so pissed. It was handled SO unprofessionally and it's obvious it was planned, but since I'd offered to work this past sunday (they were desperate for someone to do it and I volunteered), they waited til after they got what they wanted out of me. The whole thing was just so disrespectful, I went above and beyond for them consistently and this is how they let me go....I'm just still flabbergasted I feel bad about them hurting u like that . My job is trying to hurt me too! I worked on labor day then the boss calls me that night & tells me to just stay home til Thursday without any reasons or explanations. Now my check will look shorter & that's not right u know. I asked my coworker why this happened to me & he thinks its because my work hasn't been so great lately & the company doesn't wanna pay overtime to me for nothing so I know how rough it is for u. Its like the harder u try the worse it is . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Banker Chick Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Depending on the state they would be in violation and if an employee files with EEOC or DOL then they would be penalized. These laws have nothing to do with size of company though statistically the frequency of having such actions. But there is no "bye" because you are a small company. You might be able to fly under the radar but that doesn't mean you aren't actually in violation and are playing the chances. I have never understood business owners not understanding the very simple and easy CYAs that fall under employment law and the constant denial or outright refusal to follow state and federal laws. You do it in other areas, why does someone think they are exempt in this area? It is stupidity and they end up kicking and screaming and paying unnecessary expenses because of it. But whatever floats one's boat. I'm in Florida and the company I just left had an EEOC complaint filed against them just recently by an employee that claimed a whole bunch of things. She was demoted for valid reasons but because the company didn't keep good records and didn't have any back up in the way of performance reviews, write-ups, etc., she has a good case and a potential lawsuit. They're a small company with no true HR department and it's going to bite them in the butt. More companies need to understand they can't just go by their own rules. It can prove to be a costly mistake. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) I'm in Florida and the company I just left had an EEOC complaint filed against them just recently by an employee that claimed a whole bunch of things. She was demoted for valid reasons but because the company didn't keep good records and didn't have any back up in the way of performance reviews, write-ups, etc., she has a good case and a potential lawsuit. They're a small company with no true HR department and it's going to bite them in the butt. More companies need to understand they can't just go by their own rules. It can prove to be a costly mistake. She'll likely lose..Unless they did something very egregious..It will wind up being her word against them..and the burden of proof will fall on her.The courts are flooded with frivolous lawsuits by discgruntled employees that got fired..and lawyers will take the cases...Small private corporations are only bound by basic rules such as discriminatory hiring practices, etc..Its not like a governmental agency or some other entity that receives state/federal funding.. What people fail to understand is that courts recognize that its just impractical for a private small business to keep an HR department and fill an ass in a seat to cite employees for every little infraction..There arent enough hours in the day and quiite frankly there isnt a budget for it...So its technically not a choice.. Private businesses can go by their own rules- as long as they arent in violation of the basic rules that are well known and documeted.....Thats why they are privately held businesses...Add in stockholders and public funding and all that changes.. TFY Edited September 3, 2014 by thefooloftheyear 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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