How far back do they check?

[FitChick]

I want to refer a friend to my company. If she is hired I will get a bonus for the referral. She was fired from a job at a large corporation in 1995 and is worried they might find out. Nothing to do with her work -- she and her boss hated each other. We were friends at that time and I remember the hell he put her through. I told her I didn't think they kept records for more than ten years but what do I know? I'm not worried it will reflect badly on me for referring her. I just want the cash!

[TheBladeRunner]

I bet you are correct.....10 years......so hard to say these days though.

[pink_sugar]

She can put no to contact. I think she is only required to list work history for the last 7-10 years. If she's been consistently employed since then, I would leave that job off the resume and any employment applications. I was technically terminated from my last job, but I always just put laid off since they went through bankruptcy at the time of my termination and never hired anyone to fill my old position since. I just be sure to put down no to contact. I found 2 other jobs within a few months. People get laid off or terminated. Life happens. People find other jobs all the time.

[d0nnivain]

They check all the way back. Most big companies have new candidates fill out a form under penalty of perjury. The form asks if they have ever been fired. If your friend lies or omits that info there's a chance the company may not find out. However if they do, that is grounds for termination. If she was wrongfully terminated after being harassed or whatever, if the lie of omission comes out later, since it is grounds for termination the harassment no longer matters.

[Yasuandio]

Everything back to your Birth Certificate can be pulled these days. Take no chances. Or just list back to that point. There is no lie by doing this suggestion in writing. BUT make sure you do not lie by omission or commission if you are questioned about this person, your job might end up being on the line. Sometimes a little cash is not worth vetting someone, because, ultimately, you are vetting a human being that is likely to have some screw-ups you do not know about. It could be as simple as a drunken photo on Facebook - and this is a reflection on your recommendation. That's how I look at it. Yas

[pink_sugar]

They check all the way back. Most big companies have new candidates fill out a form under penalty of perjury. The form asks if they have ever been fired. If your friend lies or omits that info there's a chance the company may not find out. However if they do, that is grounds for termination. If she was wrongfully terminated after being harassed or whatever, if the lie of omission comes out later, since it is grounds for termination the harassment no longer matters.

 

While this might be true, you're only required to list the last 10 years of work history. Imagine checking a 50 year old's job he had at 16. Not gonna happen. I've never heard of the penalty of perjury when it comes to listing previous employers. Usually the most that can happen is they find out and let you go. Unless you committed a crime at the job, like steal from the company, it's usually not a big deal. Most employers do verification by contacting HR of companies you have worked for to verify dates, job title, rate of pay and etc. They will only ask if you are eligible for rehire...not the details of your separation to avoid lawsuits. Again, they will only contact HR of either your previous 4 jobs or your last 10 years. Most often, they only verify your last 4 positions.

[d0nnivain]

Pink Sugar

 

It depends on how they word the Q. The penalty of purjery part is usually found in the very small print nobody reads on the form you have to fill out. If they only ask for 10 years, that's all you have to give them but if the written Q says ALL they mean ALL. You can also get fired later for omitting even a good job because when they said ALL they meant it & you didn't follow directions.

 

N.B. All of the above applies to written Qs. There are no penalties of purjery for verbal communication unless you are placed under oath.

 

Also, your resume is a marketing tool designed to highlight the best stuff so can & should omit or at least downplay the bad stuff.

[pink_sugar]

Usually the form that is filled out asks if you have been asked to resign or terminated (usually due to gross misconduct). Since I've never been terminated due to gross misconduct, I put laid off. I've only been technically terminated twice. Once was after I put in my 2 week notice (terminated me before the end of my 2 weeks without telling me and found out later) and the other was basically they just decided it wasn't working out within the probationary period. They did exit bankruptcy the same day I was let go...so putting down laid off doesn't seem unreasonable.

Edited May 27, 2014 by pink_sugar

[WhatYouWantToHear]

Seriously, own your past, you got fired and you lied about it. The part I don't like is you semantically trying to rationalize it in your mind and to us. Now this is no way a moral judgement of you, just a restating of facts: you got fired and you lied about it.

 

Now here's my moral judgement: Organizations don't deserve respect, and lying to them isn't wrong. That's even more true of Human Resources, they are an obstacle that must be navigated around in obtaining employment. Don't feel bad for lying to HR, again, they don't deserve the respect of being told the truth.

 

HR doesn't exist to help employees, it exists to minimize liability to the organization. In, practical terms, this means your lie about being fired will never be found out. How is your new company going to find out you got fired? Contacting your old employer's HR department, right? Human Resources are the most risk averse people in the world, they will never tell another organization that you were terminated--they are too afraid of a defamation lawsuit that they will never tell another organization that you were terminated. All the old company will do is verify employment dates.

 

Other than the stigma you feel for being fired, you're fine and nothing will come of this.

[Eternal Sunshine]

It depends but they check everything. In my case, people were called that I didn't even list as referees. In her position, I wouldn't disclose it upfront but if asked if I was ever fired, I wouldn't lie.

[pink_sugar]

Seriously, own your past, you got fired and you lied about it. The part I don't like is you semantically trying to rationalize it in your mind and to us. Now this is no way a moral judgement of you, just a restating of facts: you got fired and you lied about it.

 

Now here's my moral judgement: Organizations don't deserve respect, and lying to them isn't wrong. That's even more true of Human Resources, they are an obstacle that must be navigated around in obtaining employment. Don't feel bad for lying to HR, again, they don't deserve the respect of being told the truth.

 

HR doesn't exist to help employees, it exists to minimize liability to the organization. In, practical terms, this means your lie about being fired will never be found out. How is your new company going to find out you got fired? Contacting your old employer's HR department, right? Human Resources are the most risk averse people in the world, they will never tell another organization that you were terminated--they are too afraid of a defamation lawsuit that they will never tell another organization that you were terminated. All the old company will do is verify employment dates.

 

Other than the stigma you feel for being fired, you're fine and nothing will come of this.

 

Who are you referring to exactly? You don't quote or mention a name.

 

This post is about the OP, not me. I was explaining my own experience relevant to her post.

 

FYI, The first place I was "let go from unknowingly" before the end of my two weeks I had quit due to no working hours. I was told by my manager that she received my notice and that I didn't have to come to the company paid holiday meeting. You know how I found out they "fired" me behind my back? I went to collect unemployment benefits due to lack of work and went to contest against them in court. They initially tried to lie to the unemployment department and just said I quit so they could avoid paying unemployment benefits. What the UI department found out was that they terminated my employment before the end of my 2 week notice. So in this case, yes, I have every right to say I quit that job, because I did. Had I never filed for unemployment, I would have never known about them firing me behind my back.

[Tayla]

HR is set to verification of the information as is persented. Verification is limited by each company policy. Ours is set up that we can only ask time of tenure at last jobs listed and level of education verified. we cannot ask a former employer the wage listed or any Corrective files that are in their former employers files.

Even our hire form is limited and within the govt fair and equal hire standards.

What is completed on the form needs to be 100% verifiable and accurate. The form does NOT have to be 100% completed though .

Job referrals are contingent on the type of position being applied for. Most referrals listed are in favor of the applicant so its bias from the moment it hits the page.

Most business's simply want to see that referrals are listed.

[FitChick]

What I find dismaying is that employers not only won't say if someone has been fired, they won't say they were a great employee either. It's basically HR's version of name, rank and serial number. No wonder there are so many crappy employees around.

[Hope Shimmers]

Things have changed a lot in the last 5 or so years.

 

If you got fired, it won't do you any good to call it anything else (and will probably make it look worse if you call it being "laid off") because anyone can do background checks and find out anything about past employment for as long as the records exist. Government records, W-2, etc. Ten years, yes, if they exist - or more.

 

It also won't do you any good to lie on your resume because again, the records are all online.

[pink_sugar]

What I find dismaying is when employers don't have to give a reason for terminating employment. When I was let go, I wasn't given any more reasoning other than that they decided with the following factors, performance, company needs and overall suitability. That means poor financial shape is a factor, but employers don't have to tell you that. I found out after I was let go...got a notice in the mail about their bankruptcy. How can you explain a termination when you are given no reason other than the above?

[d0nnivain]

The do care about employees lying though. Also it depends on the reason the person was fired.

[pink_sugar]

In the OP's case, her friend doesn't have anything to worry about since the job was almost 20 years ago. She'll most likely only be required to list recent employment within the past 10 years. Imagine if every employer checked every single job one has had....it's just not feasible. If an employer has let you go with not one iota or clue why, how are you supposed to explain a termination when you have no clue why it happened or any idea it was coming? I mean, I can understand if you skipped work, were always late, cussed out your boss or coworker or etc. Usually they want to know details if it was an issue due to conduct and you blatantly lied. But deciding a position isn't a fit, or the company doesn't have the resources to continue your employment are something else entirely. I tell employers my last employer was having financial issues because it is the truth...it's the only thing I can think of considering my last day was the day they declared bankruptcy and gave me no reason whatsoever for letting me go. Even the HR lady told me she didn't know why and that it wasn't personal.

Edited May 28, 2014 by pink_sugar

[Tayla]

The do care about employees lying though. Also it depends on the reason the person was fired.

 

 

Yes! They do care about lying, that is an art left for sales and politicians! So put it down, lay it on the line and tell them flat out you are a lair, heck now that I think about it, I'll lie about my gender

( sorry got carried away with that and had to find a positive spin)

[stillafool]

A friend of mine was just fired from a major corporation. She asked HR what would be told to future employers and was told that the only info they give are the start date of employment and the end date. Nothing else.

[pink_sugar]

A friend of mine was just fired from a major corporation. She asked HR what would be told to future employers and was told that the only info they give are the start date of employment and the end date. Nothing else.

 

This^^^^^!!! I went through the same thing. My last job was at a mid-sized company and the HR lady was calling my immediate boss for verification. I did not want him to know I was looking for other work, so I told the HR lady at the time I did not want to use him as a reference. She said all they ask in verification is dates of employment, rate of pay, job title and whether or not you're eligible for re-hire.

[FitChick]

The rehire question is what I was concerned about

I think that is HR code for you were fired. Possibly that you were so horrible that even if you left, they'd never rehire you.

 

I knew a woman who had a sixth sense about when she was about to be fired because she'd job hunt like mad and land another job and quit. Made a great first impression. She went from job to job, leaving a trail of destruction in her wake but could honestly say she'd never been fired, just quit "because a better opportunity presented itself."

[pink_sugar]

I think that is HR code for you were fired. Possibly that you were so horrible that even if you left, they'd never rehire you.

 

I knew a woman who had a sixth sense about when she was about to be fired because she'd job hunt like mad and land another job and quit. Made a great first impression. She went from job to job, leaving a trail of destruction in her wake but could honestly say she'd never been fired, just quit "because a better opportunity presented itself."

 

I've had several jobs that I probably wouldn't be rehired at. One simply because I gave less than 2 weeks notice. Unless every previous job says they wouldn't rehire you, there really isn't anything to worry about.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I think things are very different in Australia.

 

Re reference check, prospective employers can ask anything they want, from your personality traits to being fired to even number of sick days you had.

 

On the other hand, people here rarely get fired. Nobody I know ever got fired from a job....I almost think you would need to murder someone to get fired around here.

[pink_sugar]

I think things are very different in Australia.

 

Re reference check, prospective employers can ask anything they want, from your personality traits to being fired to even number of sick days you had.

 

On the other hand, people here rarely get fired. Nobody I know ever got fired from a job....I almost think you would need to murder someone to get fired around here.

 

Only government jobs are like that in U.S. But Australia is so much better than U.S. in many ways.