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lucy_in_disguise

I realize no one is an admissions counsellor here, but many of you have gone to grad school, and I was hoping someone could offer advice in my situation.

 

I have a BA from a prestigious public university. However, I had major issues in college and was not engaged in academics/ university life in any meaningful way. My transcripts reveal I did poorly, graduating with a 2.0 overall, even tho I managed to do so in 3 years.

 

After a year "off" during which I was broke and minimally employed I was able to miraculously land a job. I got my s!ht together and have spent the last 6 years working towards a prestigious professional designation in my field.

 

Now, I have a good career, but I am frequently find myself unfulfilled. It's not that my work doesn't have the capacity to be challenging, but I wish I could get more excited about the ultimate impact I am making. Ensuring the financial viability of large financial institutions just seems like such a waste of time.

 

So, I want to go back to school for an MS (stats or Econ). Im not sure exactly what i want to do after that but i am sure it involves more technical knowledge and theory. i have spent the last 6 years studying and am confident I can handle the workload and material, but can i expect a reasonably prestigious program to accept me, overlooking my flunking undergraduate record?

Edited by lucy_in_disguise
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pink_sugar
I realize no one is an admissions counsellor here, but many of you have gone to grad school, and I was hoping someone could offer advice in my situation.

 

I have a BA from a prestigious public university. However, I had major issues in college and was not engaged in academics/ university life in any meaningful way. My transcripts reveal I did poorly, graduating with a 2.0 overall, even tho I managed to do so in 3 years.

 

After a year "off" during which I was broke and minimally employed I was able to miraculously land a job. I got my s!ht together and have spent the last 6 years working towards a prestigious professional designation in my field.

 

Now, I have a good career, but I am frequently find myself unfulfilled. It's not that my work doesn't have the capacity to be challenging, but I wish I could get more excited about the ultimate impact I am making. Ensuring the financial viability of large financial institutions just seems like such a waste of time.

 

So, I want to go back to school for an MS (stats or Econ). Im not sure exactly what i want to do after that but i am sure it involves more technical knowledge and theory. i have spent the last 6 years studying and am confident I can handle the workload and material, but can i expect a reasonably prestigious program to accept me, overlooking my flunking undergraduate record?

 

The school I went to generally requires a 3.0, but they look at the overall picture. They generally want 5 years professional experience for their graduate programs, but it depends. Other schools require a 2.5, but you aren't too marketable with only a 2.0. I would go back and take a few courses to try and improve your GPA. Also, what is it you want to do with an Econ or Stats degree? In this economy, you are really limited to things like teaching. If that's what you want to do, great, but unless you're sure of your direction, I wouldn't rush it.

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lucy_in_disguise
The school I went to generally requires a 3.0, but they look at the overall picture. They generally want 5 years professional experience for their graduate programs, but it depends. Other schools require a 2.5, but you aren't too marketable with only a 2.0. I would go back and take a few courses to try and improve your GPA. Also, what is it you want to do with an Econ or Stats degree? In this economy, you are really limited to things like teaching. If that's what you want to do, great, but unless you're sure of your direction, I wouldn't rush it.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Stats is actually a very versatile degree. Econ may be more limiting depending on the program. I think I would enjoy research, not sure about the teaching component of academia.

 

Regarding going back to school for undergrad. It would take many classes to make a significant impact on my gpa and I am not interested in spending that much time jumping through hoops. My professional designation is very technical and is something that is also taught at the grad level (many people studying for the designation go to school for MS) so it just feels like quitting my job to go back to undergrad would be a waste.

 

Ugh, I am getting depressed thinking mistakes I made at 18 continue to haunt me.

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What really counts is what you are doing now. College for you was 6 years ago. Now you're a professional. It matters what your supervisor says. And write a good essay.

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I think the specifics will differ hugely depending on which universities you are applying to and where you live.

 

That being said, if you have 6 years of professional experience in that field, many admissions will overlook your transcript to an extent. Whether it will be enough to offset a 2.0 GPA, I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if you did find a few schools willing to accept you.

 

Maybe just try applying to a few and see how it turns out?

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pink_sugar

I agree, professional and managerial letters of recommendation will really help and even required by some schools. With letters of recommendation and professional experience, you shouldn't have a hard time. I had to write a letter of intent and you usually are asked to explain your academics and pursuade the college in a sense that your grades will be an improvement once admitted.

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Noproblem

Just try applying here and there

and put yourself on the essay

and maybe one college or two will accept you...

 

Best of luck :)

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There's a plethora of things you can do with a stats degree? If your REALLY good at it?

 

Acturaries make six figures or more with a stats degree.

 

If your really good with the Qualitative Analysis part / aspect of it? The World is tour oyster!

 

But you've damn near have to be gifted at it? Oh there's those that study it, major in it? Understand it, some even can do it. But to be really GOOD at it? You've damn near have to literally be able to visually see it?

 

And if you're that Good at it? Get your ass to Vegas!

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lucy_in_disguise
There's a plethora of things you can do with a stats degree? If your REALLY good at it?

 

Acturaries make six figures or more with a stats degree.

 

If your really good with the Qualitative Analysis part / aspect of it? The World is tour oyster!

 

But you've damn near have to be gifted at it? Oh there's those that study it, major in it? Understand it, some even can do it. But to be really GOOD at it? You've damn near have to literally be able to visually see it?

 

And if you're that Good at it? Get your ass to Vegas!

 

As it happens, I am already an actuary. That is the professional designation that generally follows an MS that I was alluding to. So, I do have a background in statistics/ risk/ finance. Not sure if I am THAT good but I am good enough.

 

I want to get into quantitative journalism or research. In addition to having an interest in statistics/ econ, I feel that having a grad degree would enable me to more easily make a career change into that field.

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nescafe1982

I have served on departmental level admissions committees, and I can say that a low GPA, while not helpful, is certainly not a dealbreaker.

 

What matters most to us when we select students:

 

1) The project they propose for the thesis (I'm in the Humanities, so the thesis is everything);

2) The overall picture of the student that emerges, not only from GPA/test scores, but also what they've been doing since college in terms of relevant experience;

3) How convinced we are that this student has the drive and determination to complete the degree;

4) Student's skills, e.g. foreign languages, etc. How likely they are to satisfy our program's secondary requirements with little/no trouble.

 

You can address your GPA in your Personal Statement, if you find a way to 1) address it positively and 2) in one clause only. Something like "I improved on my college experience towards the end by increasing my GPA by X points" (if there's an upward trend, show it)... or maybe "Coming from college from X background proved difficult, but I gained so much valuable experience that I then employed in my industry in A, B, and C ways."

 

It's good to get ahead of red-flag issues like GPA by spinning them appropriately. It shows the applications committee that you understand where the problem was, and have taken steps to address it. It also gives the committee a way to "sell" you as an admit to the higher-up at a University.

 

But the most important thing, I think... is for you to consider how going to grad school will help you on the path you wish to take. Will it take you in a new career direction? How so? Will it improve your current situation? In exactly what way will it do so? Not only are these points you will need to make in your Statement; you should also use them to assess the true value of grad school, for you.

 

Finally. NEVER go into debt for a grad program. There are programs out there who use MA degrees as a means of increasing their liquidity. It's wrong but it is common, and a degree from a school like this won't be worth much.

Edited by nescafe1982
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lucy_in_disguise

Nescafé, thanks a lot for the inside perspective.

 

I agree that it is essential to have a better idea of what I want to accomplish with a grad degree. Right now, I mostly feel burnt out at my current job and resentful of the fact that I did not really "pick" this career.

 

I am having a hard time finding enough time to pursue something else on the side that could turn into a full time venture. For example, as I mentioned, I am interested in analyzing data and writing about it, which is something I definitely have the background to begin to pursue on my own. But aside from attending a weeklong programming workshop, I haven't been able to find the time to do much with that in the last year. Ideally, I could find a job in my target field without going back to school, but this, too, has proved to be challenging.

 

It seems like grad school would be an excellent opportunity to take some time to develop the skills I am looking for, but I should probably attempt to be more specific about what that means.

 

I don't want to spend years perfecting my applications, but am thinking it would help to take a grad- level math class or two to demonstrate I can do well. It is a challenge to find something that works with my schedule, though.

 

What do you mean when you say don't go into debt? Do you literally mean avoid programs that I can't afford, or look for something totally funded? It seems the latter would be a challenge for an MS. Cost is definitely a big factor, but it seems like I will have to shell some money out to do this.

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nescafe1982

What do you mean when you say don't go into debt? Do you literally mean avoid programs that I can't afford, or look for something totally funded? It seems the latter would be a challenge for an MS. Cost is definitely a big factor, but it seems like I will have to shell some money out to do this.

 

This is field specific, but in most social science fields post-grad programs come funded. If you do not receive a tuition waiver, funding (like a stipend in return for TAing or something), or any scholarship, chances are it's because either:

a) the school didn't want your admit THAT badly (and that bodes poorly for finding the level of mentoring essential to succeeding in graduate school); or

b) the school is admitting students for profit, which means the degree you wind up with might be worth nothing more than its pricetag.

 

I'm in the Humanities... in my field, they say that "an acceptance without funding is a rejection." But again, this is field specific and my words will not hold forth for "professional" degrees like Law School or Med School. Those students rack up debt like it's their passion... but then, they also have every reason to expect a great paycheck after to pay back the loans.

 

This is the crux of the matter: if you take on student debt to pursue a degree that (it sounds like) you're not certain will get you immediate returns, a higher salary, or a better job, you will finish the degree in worse shape than you are now. Or you may not finish at all... students who take post-grad debts are much more likely to drop out before completing the degree, in part because life happens, and so do unexpected costs.

 

Also, IDK if you're in the USA, but if you are: graduate student loans are no longer subsidized, and the interest rate they bear is TWICE what the undergrads pay. Something like 6-6.5 percent. So taking debt is a very big risk unless you can be sure you can pay significantly towards it very soon after graduating.

 

That said, if you find the right school for you, get a working relationship with a professor/mentor, and receive funding in return for some work as a TA or something, grad school is a great deal and the experience will be the springboard you want to jump into a new field, etc. It's a gamble, basically... so learning as much as you can before applying is the best way to manage the risk involved. It appears to me you're doing this background research right so far, so kudos! I've seen many students arrive in an MA or PhD program because they didn't know what to do after college than those who were clear-eyed about the job prospects they could expect after graduation... so I warn anyone who is considering more school to do a careful investigation of costs, benefits, and marketability of any degree they wish to pursue after the BA/BS.

 

The last bit I can offer is that you Google the Chronicle of Higher Education. They have news and a very helpful forum for issues facing grad students, professors, and really anyone involved in academic affairs. You might find their "Grad Student" forum particularly helpful as you weigh this opportunity.

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nescafe1982

Sorry to double-post, but I noticed something in a previous post of yours about coming out of pocket to go to grad school.

 

If you can afford your tuition bill without going into debt/loans, than perhaps the factors I've outlined above are not as relevant to you. I was targeting my advice for someone who would depend either on 1) university funding or 2) student loans. If you've got some funds saved up and the bill is not a problem on your end, than that mitigates the risks significantly. And you may be more interested in staying in your current job while you attend grad school... rather than working for a pittance as a teaching assistant or something.

 

But the thrust of my post was that you want to manage/mitigate financial risk before jumping in. :) Hope that helps.

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lucy_in_disguise

Nescafé, thanks so much for your thoughtful advice. It is a lot to consider.

 

I had a day off yesterday and spent some time researching jobs. Pretty much all the jobs I am interested in in my target geographic require graduate degrees. There is a feeling amongst my fellow actuaries that our professional designation is as comprehensive and challenging as an MS, but I am not sure that belief is shared by employers, especially on the west coast, where I want to move. I feel like a masters degree would just make it so much easier to do what I want instead of feeling tied to a field and location I am not interested in.

 

I do have some savings and would be able to "afford" going to school for couple of years without taking on debt. I recognize how fortunate that makes me, but afford is a relative term. There are many other ways I can think of to spend my savings: travel, buy a house, bigger retirement fund, etc.

 

If my undergrad grades weren't such a **** show, I would just apply to a bunch of programs with a focus on my fields of interest and reasonable levels of funding. However, with my grades as they are, I feel like my application would be greatly improved with another semester (or at least a few classes) of grad level courses to demonstrate (to myself as much as an admissions committee) that I can succeed in an academic environment.

 

However, I am struggling to see how I can keep my current job and go back to school part time. The logistics just don't work out. So that feels like the biggest risk for me: deciding to take that leap to quit my (almost 6 figure) job to go back to college with no guarantee that it will even lead to grad school.

 

This seems like a crazy move to me when I think purely in terms of financials. If making money is my sole objective, there are many opportunities in my field (albeit most are in NYC where I have no interest in living) that would allow me to I dress my earnings without a taking a break for school that would drain my current resources.

 

But on the other hand my heart just isn't, and hasn't ever, been in it. I want to live in caliofmria and do quantitative analysis outside insurance. All I need is a measly MS, which should be easy enough to get, and can be mine within just a few years. I am not married, I have no kids- I'm a prime candidate for taking some risks for my life. From that perspective, it feels like I should plan it out really well and just do it.

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lucy_in_disguise

Nescafé, hoping you can answer another question. For schools/ programs with minimum GPAs, do you have any idea how stringent those requirements are? Would it be worth my time applying to programs whose requirements I don't meet, if I feel like I compensate for that in other areas?

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Eternal Sunshine

In my experience, GPAs count for a lot in grad school. At the university I did my grad school in (one of the top in Australia), they have a stringent minimum undergrad average and won't look past it no matter what. It may not be the case in US and greatly varies from institution to institution.

 

As for a grad stats degree? There is tons of things you can do, including being a statistical consultant that earns top $$$. It is actually very in demand and versatile and by no means limits you to teaching. Personally, I specialized in an area of statistics that deals with medicine/medical data. I wasn't interested in anything related to business or finance because I wanted to make a difference rather than make big corporations earn more money.

 

I don't think that grad school requires a lot of intelligence or is that difficult, it's more pain in the a$$ and requires persistance so hopefully you really want it. I do think that there is a certain ceiling in any profession where it's hard to progress further without a grad degree (given how common undergrad is today).

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As others have mentioned, you can address the GPA in your personal statement.

 

More important will be your GRE scores (assuming you are in the US). Strong scores here will do a lot to mitigate your GPA.

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lucy_in_disguise

Thanks for the additional perspective, ES. Medical stats is actually something I am interested in as well. The "making a difference" aspect is appealing and what I feel is missing from my current life track.

 

In the US, it seems like most of the universities with GPA requirements are the good- but-not-best public universities. If I decide grad school is something I really want to pursue, I will likely be (re)-taking some undergrad math classes at one such institution this summer. Hopefully, that will allow me to figure out how strict those requirements are at that school.

 

I am not worried about the GRE. Not to brag but I had a perfect SAT score and have been continuously sitting for exams for the lat 6 years for my job. I have no doubt that I could do at least reasonably well.

 

The more I think about it, the more excited I am about this path. The bad grades are something I have always been insecure about but I am finally at a place where I feel confident I can succeed. Just hoping others will see that.

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lucy_in_disguise

This is what my current plan looks like:

 

-june: quit job, securing letters of recommendations

-now: get roommate (should cover my mortgage) and secure source of revenue (possibly current employer on a part time basis)

-summer: Take linear algebra, multi variate calculus, real analysis, and a stats class at local university

-fall: study for GRE and fill out applications. Possibly take more classes or go back to work. Use opportunity to travel if finances allow.

-summer 15: begin grad school

 

My top priority is to reduce living expenses and an find alternative (part time) source of revenue. I have approx. 100k in savings to give me some piece of mind, but it is not all super liquid. Fortunately, my mortgage is low enough where a roommate would cover most of the housing cost. I am adept at living on little from a prior stint in poverty but would feel much more secure knowing I planned this right.

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nescafe1982
Nescafé, hoping you can answer another question. For schools/ programs with minimum GPAs, do you have any idea how stringent those requirements are? Would it be worth my time applying to programs whose requirements I don't meet, if I feel like I compensate for that in other areas?

 

In my department (and others at my University), numbers like GPA and even the GRE serve for nothing than to weed out the bottom third of applications. That's the good news. The bad news is that sometimes these applications are culled without being read... meaning if you don't have the minimum GPA listed on the department's website, you are at risk of having your application tossed aside.

 

BUT: one thing you can do which I haven't seen mentioned yet is to develop a relationship with a potential mentor at whichever institution you're looking at. This is more typical for PhD students but not unheard of for MS/MA. Seek someone out whose research interests coincide with yours... you can address these questions with them, as well... and if they want you on their campus, they can make an appeal for you.

 

Case in point: I was a working kid. I did not do so well GPA-wise in my early days of college. Even with a great GPA in my major field, my overall GPA upon graduation was lackluster and just below that required by the PhD program I was applying for. However, I developed a working relationship with a prof, who pleaded my case with the admissions committee. I got in by the skin of my teeth... but I got in.

 

So numbers are NEVER as hard and fast as they seem. With some resourcefulness, good networking, and a little "spin" in the statement, they can be overcome... especially if you've been succeeding in your work since graduation.

 

also. consider having your recommendors speak to the point. if they are former college profs, have them speak to your resilience. if they are industry people, have the harp on your successes on big projects. This will help, too.

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pink_sugar
This is what my current plan looks like:

 

-june: quit job, securing letters of recommendations

-now: get roommate (should cover my mortgage) and secure source of revenue (possibly current employer on a part time basis)

-summer: Take linear algebra, multi variate calculus, real analysis, and a stats class at local university

-fall: study for GRE and fill out applications. Possibly take more classes or go back to work. Use opportunity to travel if finances allow.

-summer 15: begin grad school

 

My top priority is to reduce living expenses and an find alternative (part time) source of revenue. I have approx. 100k in savings to give me some piece of mind, but it is not all super liquid. Fortunately, my mortgage is low enough where a roommate would cover most of the housing cost. I am adept at living on little from a prior stint in poverty but would feel much more secure knowing I planned this right.

 

Are you sure about quitting your job? Unless you're living with your parents rent free, I honestly think it's best to work your school schedule around your working hours so you can also minimize the amount of debt you will end up with.

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lucy_in_disguise
Are you sure about quitting your job? Unless you're living with your parents rent free, I honestly think it's best to work your school schedule around your working hours so you can also minimize the amount of debt you will end up with.

 

That would be ideal but my working hours are 9-6 with a one-hr commute each way. Not finding many upper-division math classes in my area that are offered late nights/ weekends.

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lucy_in_disguise

Nescafé, networking prior to application is a great tip. Come to think of it, that was how one of my best friends from college, who also had poor grades, made it to grad school. I am going to have to start reading more research papers.

 

Is there anything you regret about your grad school experience?

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pink_sugar

Have you considered online courses? I really enjoyed completing my last 2 years of college online and will do the same thing when I return to grad school.

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nescafe1982

 

Is there anything you regret about your grad school experience?

 

YES. Taking on debt.

 

Perhaps that illustrates why most of my cautions concern loans and repayment. Even with a "full ride" scholarship, teaching appointments, and competitive external funding backing my research, I still racked up more student debt than I feel comfortable with today.

 

And oh, I took my debt before Congress abolished subsidized graduate loans and doubled the interest rate in 2011. So I didn't even borrow at the rates they are currently offering. It's an even worse deal now. (Sidebar: they also abolished several nationally-competitive research fellowships supporting doctoral research in the Social Sciences, earning my lifelong ire)

 

I had a full ride, and still took on loans. Sadly, this study further demonstrates that I'm not alone. Graduate School debt makes for some scarier stories than undergraduate debt. Undergrads have several forces mitigating how indebted they can become: school borrowing limits, required cosigners, low interest rates, subsidies, a greater number of grants and tuition waivers. Many colleges see graduate students simultaneously as a source of tuition income and a source of cheap labor.

 

Beware the school which pulls from both ends.

 

Only attending a school which gives some degree of graduate funding is not only about simple financial sense; in a sense the degree of funding they offer (or don't offer) betrays the attitude they have towards graduate education in general.

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