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two weeks notice and vacation time


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Well my life is a whirlwind! I got the job (emailed to me that they are going to offer the position I just need to call when convenient to let them know actual start date) tomorrow.

 

When I was on the interview last Friday and they asked when i could start, I of course told them the standard 2 weeks. Which in my head would be not this Friday but next would be my last day.

 

I work tomorrow, but then I am off until next Tue. Can that last Friday be my last day? Can they screw over my vacation time? (what I haven't taken yet, they owe me over 80hours vacation time) HR's policy is pretty vague. It just says you cannot "extend" your 10 days by tacking on vacation days. It doesn't say anything if the vacation days were already planned and approved. Yes, I have a call in to my HR, I'm just impatient!:p I want out of there....yesterday!

 

Talk about weird timing! And I thought nobody hired around the holidays!:laugh: (no seriously, I really didn't!:eek:)

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What is in your policy handbook ?

 

Some companies make you forfeit your vacation time if it isn't used before your notice and some will give you your full vacation time.

 

It really depends on the policy handbook you agreed to when you were hired.

 

Are you due it, in my mind yes but you may only get 40 hours of it instead of the full 80 hrs.

 

Keep us posted

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What is in your policy handbook ?

 

Some companies make you forfeit your vacation time if it isn't used before your notice and some will give you your full vacation time.

 

It really depends on the policy handbook you agreed to when you were hired.

 

Are you due it, in my mind yes but you may only get 40 hours of it instead of the full 80 hrs.

 

Keep us posted

 

Thanks, I'm in an at will state. But my HR is in another state than me. All it says is that it's "expected" to give 10 working days unless you are a higher up then it's 4 weeks. I guess I was hoping if I came "close" (meaning that I would like next Friday to be my last day) it would be okay. If they want 2 weeks, I guess that will be the following Tue the 10th.

 

Really though what I do, 3 others do the exact same thing. I have nothing specialized and there have even been rumors they were going to shut us down to move our operations back to corporate. Though nothing is set.

 

If you ever saw any of my other threads (from the forced birthday gatherings with people that are unhinged) I really want/need out ASAP. I have never bar none worked in a more hellish place than this. It's "easy" work for my field. But also depressing because of the demographic. The people I work with like to make it into a big drama thing and harder than it needs to be.

 

I did write out everything to HR so I guess I will await their response. Tomorrow is the day! It's going to be stressful, I just feel it.

 

But anyway the book doesn't use any words like will forfeit unused PTO if 10 full days not given. THAT would make it clear! I will update. Thanks!

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My vacation time was paid out really late....like over a year after I left the company. Didn't even know I was owed vacation time. 10 working days sounds right. I gave notice on a Monday and was gone the Monday after the following. However, in retail, it's a little different since schedules often include weekends, so a 14 day notice is usually expected.

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Thanks, I'm in an at will state. But my HR is in another state than me. All it says is that it's "expected" to give 10 working days unless you are a higher up then it's 4 weeks. I guess I was hoping if I came "close" (meaning that I would like next Friday to be my last day) it would be okay. If they want 2 weeks, I guess that will be the following Tue the 10th.

 

Really though what I do, 3 others do the exact same thing. I have nothing specialized and there have even been rumors they were going to shut us down to move our operations back to corporate. Though nothing is set.

 

If you ever saw any of my other threads (from the forced birthday gatherings with people that are unhinged) I really want/need out ASAP. I have never bar none worked in a more hellish place than this. It's "easy" work for my field. But also depressing because of the demographic. The people I work with like to make it into a big drama thing and harder than it needs to be.

 

I did write out everything to HR so I guess I will await their response. Tomorrow is the day! It's going to be stressful, I just feel it.

 

But anyway the book doesn't use any words like will forfeit unused PTO if 10 full days not given. THAT would make it clear! I will update. Thanks!

 

Your handbook will need to be state specific so it can be influenced by the state you are in (we are based in one state but have policies that are varied based on other states). Regardless, your company is required to pay out PTO or vacation on your last day. So they may go ahead and honor you taking your last days as vacation or just deny that and pay it out in your last check. A company also does not need to honor the 2 week notice. It is a courtesy that an employee gives to leave on good terms but we have, in numerous situation, decided that it is in everyone's best interest to have their last day be earlier than that.

 

So wait to hear what your HR department says but you will not lose those 80 hours, it just may be given to you as "cash" than actual time.

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Your handbook will need to be state specific so it can be influenced by the state you are in (we are based in one state but have policies that are varied based on other states). Regardless, your company is required to pay out PTO or vacation on your last day. So they may go ahead and honor you taking your last days as vacation or just deny that and pay it out in your last check. A company also does not need to honor the 2 week notice. It is a courtesy that an employee gives to leave on good terms but we have, in numerous situation, decided that it is in everyone's best interest to have their last day be earlier than that.

 

So wait to hear what your HR department says but you will not lose those 80 hours, it just may be given to you as "cash" than actual time.

 

Thank you!

 

My last day is Dec 6th!!! HR will pay out my unused PTO even though it's less than the 10days! I am excited because I am ready to move on!

 

Now for the problem....always needs to be one of those right? HR wants to have an exit interview, fair enough. They are aware of the tension in our office, they want me to tell them what's up!:eek:

 

I am torn. I don't want to because I want to just leave peaceably. As much as I can anyway. However there is one left behind that is also a target of the bullying. I am told by one of our directors that I "need" to make this right for her. (the one left behind) I already told HR I am reluctant to talk as I don't see what it would help and I don't want things worse for the one who is still there.

 

On the flip side these bitches/cat s do need to go down! I just really didn't think I would be the one to do it. The director said this needs to stop, but it's been going on since before I started. It's why 4 others were chased out before me. So I don't know.

 

Does HR ever really help?

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Your exit interview should be kept confidential by HR. They will not send it to your manager but will use it to either compile information by others who have left or, if they need to start an investigation, will use parts of it.

 

Exit interviews can be very useful for HR/management. I would be honest but it is your call. Ask HR if the questions can be emailed to you so you can answer if you want to choose your words judiciously.

 

But yes, any unpaid PTO or vacation would be paid out, any bonuses (based on how their policy is written), and any debts owed to the company would be deducted - benefits, loans, etc.

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Your exit interview should be kept confidential by HR. They will not send it to your manager but will use it to either compile information by others who have left or, if they need to start an investigation, will use parts of it.

 

Exit interviews can be very useful for HR/management. I would be honest but it is your call. Ask HR if the questions can be emailed to you so you can answer if you want to choose your words judiciously.

 

But yes, any unpaid PTO or vacation would be paid out, any bonuses (based on how their policy is written), and any debts owed to the company would be deducted - benefits, loans, etc.

 

Thank you again for taking the time!

 

It's already set for a phone interview next week. I plan to write down my thoughts, but it's hard to unravel 2 years of abuse. Crazy because in my personal life I would have never tolerated it. But professionally I have this code that I think must be adhered to. That the professional "face" must always be maintained.

 

The problem is I let my guard down way too early. I am generally a very open person. When I started to get snapped at I wouldn't snap back (wasn't professional) because I was taken off guard after a while it seemed pointless to say "hey wait a minute after the fact, I shouldn't be treated that way)

 

However it was a great learning curve/experience. Because like in my personal life I learned, I learned here where my professional boundaries are and what should not be crossed. In my next position, especially since I have a management position, I likely may be challenged what qualified me to get this positio? I'm unique in the sense that I haven't been long in the health care field, but I have a good deal of customer service, time management, crisis, management skills in my previous career which spanned 20 plus years.

 

My main gift is that I can see a problem and figure out a solution as well as see both sides of an issue. I thought everyone could do this, but I've learned that in every job I have I can look at something that isn't working and if I don't know on my own how to fix it, I find the tools, research etc....to make it better. That was highly resented in the job I am leaving.

 

As my husband says, I need to stick to the facts though. Take the emotion out of it. I tried good conflict resolution skills here, such as I went to one of the prime people alone and said, it seems we are having tension and I would like to do my part to alleviate that. What do you think the problem is? It lasted maybe a day (after I was told it was a personality mix) and went right back.

 

I later learned (prob 6-8mos) into the job that there always must be a "target" for them. They do it slowly of course and nothing was ever "in your face" it is done laughingly in front of you but behind your back if that makes any sense!

 

For example they could make fun of an outfit and make comments that were derogatory but nothing specific, so that if you would say "sounds like you are making fun of me are you" (by the way I never tried to say that) they would say "no, we weren't talking about you". See they would talk about the other one and she would make comments back, like do you have a problem, and they would say she was paranoid, it wasn't about her, but it was!

 

Another example involving work would be they would take paperwork to the ringleader (she used to have a title, but was stripped of that shortly before I came but her followers continued to treat her like she was in charge!) that I did, instead of being confronted about the mistake or the correction so I could know for the future, the ringleader would poke fun of it and say loudly "sloppy or stupid or should know better" things like that but because I wasn't directly addressed I could only guess it was me. It took awhile before I started to get up and say "was that mine" etc...

 

The ringleader keeps the cards very close to her chest because she does not want to be dispensable. If only she knew the answers then we looked totally inept in her absence. In the beginning she basically took no time off and chastised any of us who did that we weren't dedicated enough. That you don't come into this field and not be expected to be married to it! Well that's not my philosophy. I must have a strong work life balance. I work to live not live to work. Period. She hated that.

 

I walked in there in May and had my July vacation secured. I took it without pay, but it's the one thing I demand in every new job. This new job has no problem with it and I even have it in writing.

 

I thought once that vacation time was over she would soften up. That's when I learned she always needs a target for her bullying. It's rumored she's bi-polar but you know how that goes! She does have very, very highs though and can literally crash where she barely says a word. She will for no reason get up and start slamming things. You have to literally tell her if you are going to make a fax (around the corner) or take a pee! (yes really) If you didn't comply the abuse escalated.

 

She tells out right lies about people to get people to dislike others. Pretty much me and the other one. She lies about one of her followers too, but she's too obtuse to pick up on it, plus she's one of the main ones that will start making fun of me and the other one. She does this to get the ringleader's approval.

 

She will hide important papers and blame someone else for not having it filed correctly. She tried to pin it on me early on. However I'm super detailed oriented so it didn't stick so she moved on to another Achilles's heel, my own doubts about being new in this field. I allowed her to exploit that, and never again.

 

We all had to take a course "how to get along with others" and it was only met with eyerolls and nothing changed. She undermines our "real" boss every chance she gets. See when I was hired by a different boss, he was fired literally a week later! Our boss is actually an Ops/field boss and had no office manager experience. He has no idea how to handle a bunch of catty women. I have worked offices before and have never encountered such a tight knit horrific bunch as these. It truly felt like a circle of hell at times.

 

Now I am starting to show my claws. For example if a phone call is for one of them, they would either ignore me so I wasn't sure if they heard me or not. Or else they would snap "what?" if I asked if they were available. Well now I am snapping back "I cannot tell if you are on the phone or not" I mean really I can hold up a finger to say hold on or nod my head or whatever or turn around. But others can't.

 

I've said repeatably I will take a call back or help them whichever the person preferred. Still zero cooperation I became the punching bag because they were busy in their role. (I have a higher level/pay than them, except for the ringleader who I am more or less equal with) but have zero consideration for what we 4 do. (there are 3 of us on par with the ringleader, the ringleader has a slight distinction in responsibilities/new title)

 

Now that I am standing up and snapping back "I" am the bitch! I'm being called unstable etc...Imagine that!

 

Sorry for the length! I guess I needed to vent. If you have any insights to this mess I'm happy to learn more! Not looking forward to next week, but at least it's a finite amount of time.

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I am not sure of the size of your office/company but I think going over the issue with HR would be beneficial. I don't really see how this would come back to harm you. It sounds like poor/weak management and general bullying based on lack of direction and accountability.

 

Unfortunately bullies are common, I too deal with them, and I have found the best way to handle them is to hold them immediately accountable for their actions. I am executive and I still deal with them so it doesn't change no matter your level. Bullies are just people who are boundary pushers, it is who they are and really isn't about you/the other person. Really. So I deal with one executive who is a bully. I first hold my boundaries and state my case calmly with him. If he runs rickshaw over me/it then I go to his supervisor and state my case calmly, what my intention is, and that usually smacks him down into place. I know with him, though, that he will do it again as that is who he is, so I show that I will hold him accountable and will not "just take it, when he does it.

 

My father is a bully by nature and so dealing with him I have learned that sometimes the best defense is a good offense. :laugh:

 

And I have no issues being known as a b&$ch because I am assertive and hold my boundaries. Because of my position and nature I have a pretty "scary" reputation. I am very okay with that. I am not there to make friends, I am there to do my job. I recommend in your next position, don't approach things as making friends, approach it as doing your job. I suggest look at how men tend to handle things. Women can tend to think they have to be, for lack of a better term, little mary sunshine, and be liked and not assertive. That ends up being walked all over. Be calm but be assertive.

 

Talk to HR about your issues. Like your husband said, stay unemotional, just state the facts, and go over the timeline of events. It may not make any major changes, but every complaint that is filed against this woman, and situation, will help effect change.

 

I look at work in this manner, there is the "real" me and then the "work" me. I create a work persona that has attributes of my personality that benefit but will also adapt other areas that fit with work (like more aggressive than my natural tendency) and so when I have conflict, or getting hit on something, it isn't about me personally, it is just my work persona. So I don't allow it to be personal and then I don't react as emotionally as I may have. Because I have learned with business, the calmer one can be, the more creditable they are perceived.

 

But nevertheless, it didn't sound like a situation that was going to be positive one for you so I think much better to just move on.

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It may be that there are indications that all is not good at that location. Indications that upper management may or may not be aware of. You might be doing everyone (except the trouble maker) a favor by being honest and straight. But your first responsibility is to yourself. Tell HR that you would welcome the chance for an honest and professional exit interview. Explain you have learned a great deal about your trade and would like to repay the company for your experiences and your growth. But, you expect to only meet with HR and not your previous supervisor. If that person is in attendance, you will leave. What can they do, fire you? Worst case, they withhold your vacation pay. That happens, you go to the state employment agency, employee handbook in hand. (Make copies, as your present employer may ask for the return of the handbook)

 

 

Prepare for the meeting, as you would for any important meeting. Write your agenda down, list the points you want to make. List other people who can verify your statements. Get their permission first. You do not want them to get fired. You did keep any copies of any important conversations with your supervisor, right? In advance, ask for a copy of your employment history, good and bad comments that may be in your file. You should ask to review your employment file annually. That will give you the chance to correct any false information. Always keep copies of any job review, and any good comments from clients and co-workers. When I was a full time firefighter, we found the atta-boy letters resulting from our actions at fires and ambulance runs, were deleted after 6 months or so. And the chief seldom shared those letters with us. Any bad thing, went into the job file. Even stuff that was made up by the Chief or City Mgr or Captain Bill. Keep record of any training, paid by the company or not.

 

 

After your meeting, let us know how you faired.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Update:

 

Well the exit interview went as well as to be expected I guess. A whole hour on the phone then I sent a follow up email. I'm just glad it is over.

 

They were SO nice to me (the crazy crew) the first couple days last week that I was there. (I was off after I turned in my resignation through and including the Monday after Thanksgiving) So nice in fact it upset me in a different way as in "why now?" and if they could have treated me that way as well as acted in a normal professional manner in the office it wouldn't have been a half bad place to work. Instead it was a circle of hell.

 

I think they were afraid that I was talking to HR. I have at least resigned myself that it's okay if it's my name that gets brought up in order to stop the insanity there. They are bringing in a new high level boss that is very familiar with all of the childish antics and bullying . So my immediate boss said between that and my exit interview that there will be big changes coming. At first I was unsettled that my name will be brought up and slandered regarding all of this. But now I think, so what I will likely not lay eyes on none of those awful bitches again that turned my work life inside out and upside down for 2 plus years.

 

However on the upside if it wasn't for those "awful bitches" I would have never learned that "some" people can be like that and try to ruin a whole office. I will recognize those signs now and stop them in their tracks. I have no problem doing this personally it's just professionally I was totally caught off guard.

 

Thank you GotIt for your excellent tips! I think I am now armed with some better knowledge on how to counter this in the future. For one thing, I will never apologize for the hows and whys that I got to where I am in such a short time. That was my big mistake here. To show, and have that weakness exploited that I didn't feel comfortable in a higher role and hadn't yet put in years in this field to "earn" this supposedly better office position. Now with the move to education, I'm very excited to hopefully be able to improve patient outcomes and quality of life! Thanks to all who commented.

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Great job truth! I know it is hard to be the one "out on the front line" but someone needs to be and you were not lying or acting inappropriately. So it wasn't personal with them but giving a business feedback on how to run better with their human capital.

 

I am glad you were honest in your exit interview and you may help effect change there. I have had the same sentiment leaving a prior company, the "why now". But it doesn't matter, what has happened has happened and everything works out exactly how it should. I know you are on to bigger and better things and may have left just a little bit of a legacy of accountability in your trail. Not a bad thing to have. :D

 

Good luck!

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