Dying w/low avg $55. w2 hr Software Development Out-Sourced to India tax free @$7. hr

[aroseInLove]

I am at wits end... Dying w/low avg $55. w2 hr Software Development Out-Sourced to India tax free @$7. hr....

 

Contracts used to be 1 yr. .. now all are 3 mos, or less.... and many contracts need exp. dealing with projects in India,,

 

I'm a software developer for 20+ years.. as a painter would come to your house and paint.. you don't keep them... they leave after the job is done... that's my profession with software development.. they bring us in to do analysis of needs.. design... write code.. test.. implement ... then we're out the door..

 

With lesser and lesser contracts available w/outsourcing to India... this is Capitalism.. totally within the laws of the land.. It's killing so many of us.. Any ideas?

[moimeme]

Write childrens' books or design children's toys. You have a never-ending source of new clients.

[Darkangelism]

Thats how capitalism works, options are open ur own company or move to india.

[Pookette]

arose - you have a point. Outsourcing to other countries is going to grow. I worked for a company called (can I say this?) Sykes. They did outsource tech support for some big names such as SBC, Toshiba and Gateway. Call center support for software, hardware, technical support, billing, etc.

 

I was in a tech support Sykes. Chances are, if you have SBC DSL, you've probably talked to me. Sykes decided to downsize their US call centers and put more in overseas. India, to be precise. Now, Sykes is shutting down ALL their US call centers to go over there.

 

I lost my full time, well paid job. As my husband worked there as well, we both had no income. Scary time, my friends.

 

If outsourcing overseas continues, there will be many jobless people.

[faux]

Originally posted by aroseInLove

I am at wits end... Dying w/low avg $55. w2 hr Software Development Out-Sourced to India tax free @$7. hr....

 

Contracts used to be 1 yr. .. now all are 3 mos, or less.... and many contracts need exp. dealing with projects in India,,

 

I'm a software developer for 20+ years.. as a painter would come to your house and paint.. you don't keep them... they leave after the job is done... that's my profession with software development.. they bring us in to do analysis of needs.. design... write code.. test.. implement ... then we're out the door..

 

With lesser and lesser contracts available w/outsourcing to India... this is Capitalism.. totally within the laws of the land.. It's killing so many of us.. Any ideas?

 

This has been discussed everywhere from what I can see. I have never seen anyone on SlashDot angrier, to tell the truth, when it was discussed there. I do not believe there is anything one can do in this situation aside from making a career change.

[spencer]

yes this is a terrible situation right now with outsourcing. it will be absolutely horrible for our economy. i do think the backlash will come, i dont know how long it will be.

most of the countries the US is outsourcing to, do not have the same laws as we do concerning, patents, or developement rights. i predict that many of our technological ideas and developements will be copied or out right ripped off. then the corporations wont have anyone to protect them from the 'stolen' knowledge. they will have no one to blame but themself.

it's been happening already, with the manufacturing industry. many designs that were built in other countries have been copied too a T, then the foreign country opens up same thing under there name, for $$$ less. putting the american company out of business, or not able to compete with the sales in that country, contingent on the export laws.

 

i dont like it, but on the otherhand i understand the high cost of doing business in our country.

unfortunately the businesses that are hurt the most by incumbersome taxation, dont move overseas. its the wealthy companies, that save a ton of money by not providing minimum wages, or retirement, health insurance or social sercurity. ect...

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by faux I do not believe there is anything one can do in this situation aside from making a career change.

 

Can't make a career change in markets where competitive hiring is based upon highest expertise to be found at lowest pay to be accepted.. thus career change would put me to the bottom of the barrel just as much as the out-sourcing...

[amerikajin]

We looked the other way when it was the factory worker. Now that it's the college-educated professional, it's a problem.

 

Karma sucks.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by amerikajin

We looked the other way when it was the factory worker. Now that it's the college-educated professional, it's a problem.

 

Karma sucks.

 

 

Yes, amerikajin, they did it to our parents, didn't they? White-collar looked the other way from our parents' sad struggles with financial hardships ... started with NAFTA... and capitalism was the American dream.. Now this same NAFTA and capitalism is crucifying us college educated white-collar..

 

The way I see it, the white-collar CEO's fear for THEMSELVES.. THEY fear for their jobs too.. So when they look to their bottom lines... they're in desperation of knowing, they HAVE TO do this outsourcing ... big diff bet $55. hr and $7.00 hr. on a massive 50,000 pool of software developers alone in a corpartions like mother Aetna, Travelers, CIGNA.. They'll look better if their bottom lines look better.. thus they scrap US software development and ship it offshore.. i

 

It's now white-collar against white-collar.. so what's next? Well, my brother is an engineer.. Master's degree.. Ph'D's it all means nothing.. Still, jobs outsourced to India there as well.. Also happening in clerical.. and legal entities... Imagine.. here I am a developer for 20+ years.. I ADDED to the same technology that ALLOWS this work to be done offshore.. and I sit here in a struggled world.. lowering my bid over and over again.. even training people to train off shore in some cases.. as they're the only jobs to be had at the time..

 

Why can't we reverse NAFTA????? Bet those politicians would reverse NAFTA when THEIR jobs get outsourced offshore.. THEN, the economic world would change.. but sad to say.. we won't see that happen.. for sure.. ..

 

rose

[amerikajin]

It's not just the CEOs, it's the shareholders. They're the ones buying and selling based on profitability. The globalization genie's out of the bottle, so we may as well deal with it. I'm not an economist, so I couldn't begin to say exactly what should be done, but I'm guessing it starts by creating incentives to produce more goods at home. If we're going to set up trade deals with foreign countries, the least we could do is try to adopt something that makes wages somewhat more comparable than they are now.

[Fedup&givingup]

My husband has been effected directly by outsourcing...it IS a problem, and it does need to be addressed.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by amerikajin

It's not just the CEOs, it's the shareholders.

 

 

It IS equally the shareholders as they ARE driving the pressure on CEO's to make that bottom-line better or their ousted.. .. Isn't it amazing.. Believe me, I'm no economist either... just a lowly developer looking for my next contract.. and I have NO recourse but to 'deal' with the cards I'm dealt...

 

QUOTE]Originally posted by Fedup&givingup

My husband has been effected directly by outsourcing...it IS a problem, and it does need to be addressed.

People who are not YET affected will most definitely BECOME affected in some way, shape or form.. it's like a snowball rolling down the hill.. To me, it's a beast..it's gaining strength and it's picking up speed by the speed of light.

 

Originally posted by faux

This has been discussed everywhere from what I can see. I have never seen anyone on SlashDot angrier, to tell the truth, when it was discussed there.

I've not had time or privilege to view other discussions; I wrote once to a politician ..rec'd no response.. Just joined LS and saw this business arena.. and I'm in search of answers as this offshore outsourcing IS my world..

 

I'm IN it up to my eyes and faced with it's direct consequences.. looking for ideas to STAY in my field ..as I'm expert level in my field that I can't toss in the trash can or divert to any such degree that I'd not be selected or make remotely close in pay rate..

 

No matter what standard of living one has, we buy homes, select colleges for our children, buy cars, etc. ALL based upon somewhat close to that same standard of living.. As a developer, I NOT ONLY am at half my rate of pay as 18 mos, ago.. I NO LONGER am provided with health insurance..

 

I mostly work in Hartford, CT and have to pay $200. a month to park my stinking car.. and if car's not removed by 6:00 pm it's locked in for the night ELSE I pay $300. per month for access past 6:00 pm becuase they think I'm using garage for 'events'...

 

I NO LONGER get one yr. contracts.. AND now out of work/interviewing happens every 3 months.. Imagine the interviewing process grind and then imagine going through it EVERY 3 mos.. Yes.. that's me..

 

It's ever-mounting .. as most of these present day contracts will NO LONGER pay SS.. FICA.. Unemployment..

 

Countless major corporations that I walked through their doors for 20+ years NOW want me to even BUY my own Contractors' Liability and E&O insurance and buy myself an LLC corp-to-corp status..which costs even MORE money PLUS prevents me from EVER collecting Unemployment Compensation..

 

Well.. that half rate.. thus dwindled down to chump change in my book.. to think of the fact that I pay $2500. for EACH one-week Microsoft course to boot.. just to somehow get on the cutting edge trying to stay in front of that snow ball.. and in taking the toughest jobs that NO ONE in their corporate IT staff wants to do.. or knows how to do.. Let me tell you, they are UGLY hellish jobs with most unreasonable expectations.. They want the 'moon' and think you're going to just 'whip it up'... .. Some of the 'better' ones are the one-year initiatives that I have to 'promise' to do in a 3-month contract or I don't win the bid.. thus, if job not complete.. LLC insurance covers me and they don't have to pay me one cent.. Then they REALLY capitalize..

 

If this ever-mounting set of 'removals' continues.. and people like myself can't stay in front of that snowball.. we're all going to lose our homes.. cars.. etc..

Just don't know what else to do.. but put the word out..

 

I'm not staging a pity session here, by ANY means.... I'm hopeful something will trigger a thought out there in this LS business arena.. Just hopeful that's all..

 

Thanks, Rose

[superfly1405]

People - What goes up has to come down.

Patience.. it'll change

[HokeyReligions]

I know what you mean RR! I lost my permanent position May 5, 2003. I have not been able to find a permanent position since. I'm working strictly contract with NO benifits of any kind. I HATE the holidays because it means I lose a day's pay. I have to do the work of three people at a salary that is about what I earned 10 years ago!

 

I don't get the permanent positions because "I'm over qualified and I'll leave for a better job" (yeah, right) Or I get an offer for a job that is, and I don't mean to sound snobbish, beneath me. A lot of these jobs are beneath my skills and talents and what I'm good at. Would I leave a job that I'm overqualified for? No, not in today's economy and they paid me a decent salary with good benifits. I would stay and be happy about it. I won't take a job that I am overqualified for and which doesn't pay me enough to live on. I've done some temp secretarial work in between contracts and have been offered jr. secretarial jobs and very low wages, but I'd lose everything! I am on a contract now that was supposed to last a year, but will end in a few months and it doesn't pay what I should be making, but it's more than what a lot of people earn. I see people who lose their homes every day because they can't find decent work and because their taxes keep going up.

 

I've been on the other side of the coin too though. My husband desiged an item for a company. This company is going to sell this item as part of their overall product. In order to market their product at a price that the average American can afford and will pay, they have to be able to produce their product for a specific amount. They have to cover all the costs of their product, including making a profit. That's why they are in business. The item that my husband designed would cost around $8 each piece to be produced in the USA. The product cost to the consumer is around $30. The rest of the items in the product cost about $18 to produce. Making the cost of the product $26. This does not include advertising, shipping, or administrative costs. The company can have the item my husband designed, and most of the other items too, produced in another country like Taiwan, for less than a dollar a piece. Add in the cost of shipping to the USA and the whole product cost is about $7. That leaves room for profit (not making a killing, just a profit).

 

Now, the manufacturing companies in the USA can't lower what it costs them or they would not be able to make their payroll, pay their vendors, purchase their own supplies from higher-cost US companies, or pay their TAXES!

 

It is a horrible cycle and I don't know how to break it, but I think the first thing that needs to be done is get rid of the tax system and institute a flat tax.

 

I feel for you though. I know how it is to work harder, with less security, and for far less money. I'm also a pro at interviewing now!

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

I know what you mean RR! I lost my permanent position May 5, 2003. I have not been able to find a permanent position since. I'm working strictly contract with NO benifits of any kind. I HATE the holidays because it means I lose a day's pay. I have to do the work of three people at a salary that is about what I earned 10 years ago!

 

I don't get the permanent positions because "I'm over qualified and I'll leave for a better job" (yeah, right) Or I get an offer for a job that is, and I don't mean to sound snobbish, beneath me.

 

 

I am so sorry and I understand EXACTLY!!!! PLEASE DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH !! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Offshore outsourcing and war is killing my family financially and war is killing us emotionally. Because of Bush.. life stinks right now. . I'm devastated.. ..Entire family in turmoil it seems.. sorry to deviate a bit from my original thread but it’s also BUSH-related…

 

• My son-in-law was conned into Army Reserves as a 'bait-and-switch' tactic

4 years ago just 2 weeks before receiving his BS college degree.. Army Reserves Recruiter promised him an Officer MP position as he'd have his BS degree in Criminal Justice. When he arrived at boot camp that summer 2000, they made him a PRIVATE- tow truck guy.. Why, because he didn't have BS college degree in hand at the exact timing of the signature. purposely MADE to sign short 2 weeks of degree IN HAND.. he was 'bait-and-switch' conned for quota reasons.. Best Army could do is make him an INACTIVE reserve.. no discharge for bait and switch conning.. Four years later, he marries my daughter, and weeks after the wedding, he rec'd a call to report for Iraq deployment within 36 hours or he'd be under arrest.. Then spent that 36 hours having to 'check in' or be arrested.. So, NICE wedding present.. He's in Baghdad, Iraq... yep, he's the tow truck guy.. He's there for another 18 months with no visits home and there's talk of that being extended because of BUSH!!!!!!!!! There's bombing near his camp.. He has little to no food.. as snipers are bombing their food trucks.. He only has the limited freeze-dried rations... he's lost 25 lbs this past month.. They only have access to their own recycled water from which they continuously shower with ever 2nd or 3rd day in sandy dirt conditions... and at 140 degree heat temps.. Horrific sanitation conditional while BUSH takes care of all other countries, he's crucifying OURS... plus my son-in-law's camp is surrounded by giant venom killing spiders.. he had to travel for three days at 25 mph in a humvee that has no armor .. They are supposed to cover all four sides plus under and top side of humvee as passing through bombing areas.. but BUSH didn't allocate enough budge money for my son-in-law's humvee.. Oh, by the way, his sergeant's humvee had all 6 required pieces of amour.. Tough luck... none for his.. Nor has he grenades for his grenade gun...and he's a target to the snipers for carrying it around... He was trained to use a grenade gun to blow up any vehicle that could not be towed in... Lucky him, he NOW gets to tow them ALL... see, BUSH won't let any US vehicle remain stranded... no matter where they are.. So, besides towing them in, he's front line guarding with a grenade gun that he can only shoots bullets with.. ... Too add to BUSH's funding couldn't get his supplies to him before he had to leave for front line.. My daughter is devastated.. Oh by the way, Bush is paying my son-in-law $40,000. a year salary.. when his career would have net him $100,000... ALSO my ex-boyfriend police Lieutenant and his colleagues were OFFERRED $300,000. lump sum to train soldiers in a classroom in Iraq for a 9-month deployment.. all while my starving son-in-law is on the front line with venom spiders for 40,000. for 12 months.. Hardly fair, no?

 

• Offshore outsourcing is killing my family financially.. we are sending our $55. per hour jobs offshore to $7.00 per hour sweat shops in INDIA!!!!!!!!! ..While WE starve, literally, here at home... PLUS I also lose out on home grown jobs because I am Caucasian and first choice goes to the IMMIGRANTS here.. Yep... it's called Equal Oppty. Act.. Gee, too bad it doesn't apply to US Americans.. Financially a college educated white collar software developer of 20+ years and, yes, world, I am in trouble.. ...I've been interviewing in FOUR states.. I make it from hundreds of applicants to final round after 4-6 interviews apiece (for a 3-month contract no less!!!) but I'm one of the chosen two or three 'runner-ups' near every time.. but what’s that old saying ‘close but no cigar!’.. Yes, I get up every morning and drive with the masses, but I’m not going to the ‘j-o-b’.. I’m going too the interview.. one of two or 3 on a given day.. I pass every test given.. I can doo most of the jobs in my SLEEP.. still, I usually lose as competition is FIRECE.. thus, I lose due to youth… gender.. bid ..or being over-qualified .. . so I keep dropping the rate.. My phone rings off the wall, I interview like crazy but I am still out of work.. as competition is FIRECE due to offshore and EQOA.. PLEASE DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH !! !!!!! !!!!!!! !!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!! !!!! !!! !!!!!! !!! VOTE FOR WHOMEVER will REVERSE NAFTA (offshore outsourcing) and WHOMEVER will LET OUR CHILDREN AND LOVED ONES RETURN HOME... I hear Kerry wants us OUT of war!

 

God Bless all our soldiers.. all our economically hit off-shoring from free 'capitalism'.. all who care..

rose

[HokeyReligions]

ow! aroseinlove. I can see how bitter you are. My nephew was in Iraq (101st Airborne) at the beginning and has only been home a short while. I understand the stress. I also think it is crappy about your son's degree!

 

I am a Bush supporter though and do not "blame" him or the GOP for the war -- it is necessary. Bush and the troops have my full support in the war effort. As for the economy -- its cumulative and I don't believe the responsibility for everything lays at the feet of one president or political party. That is my view.

 

We'll just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I may lose my home too, but all I can do is educate myself, form my own opinions, vote my conscious, and work very hard. I've been homeless and it was NOT fun at all. I'm too old to go through that again.

 

I hope that very, VERY soon the next interview will end with "you are hired" for both of us. Peace rose.

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

ow! aroseinlove. I can see how bitter you are. My nephew was in Iraq (101st Airborne) at the beginning and has only been home a short while. I understand the stress. I also think it is crappy about your son's degree!

 

I am a Bush supporter though and do not "blame" him or the GOP for the war -- it is necessary. Bush and the troops have my full support in the war effort. As for the economy -- its cumulative and I don't believe the responsibility for everything lays at the feet of one president or political party. That is my view.

 

We'll just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I may lose my home too, but all I can do is educate myself, form my own opinions, vote my conscious, and work very hard. I've been homeless and it was NOT fun at all. I'm too old to go through that again.

 

I hope that very, VERY soon the next interview will end with "you are hired" for both of us. Peace rose.

 

 

I feel your warmth.. your kindness... your heart.. I wish you well... keep me posted.. as will I.. It's all opinion, for sure, but those horrific sanitation conditions, lack of food and supplies like armor while traveling through bombing and ammunition withheld due to lack of US budget while BUSH takes care of all other countries' humanity with OUR TAXES... and.. well, add that to my family's job crisis when in all Bush's years, he's not once tried to reverse NAFTA offshore out-sources.. YES, its cumulative and I don't believe the responsibility for everything lays at the feet of one president or political party either, BUT Bush has ultimate veto authority and highest supreme rank.. He IS the CHIEF; his mind is elsewhere.. .. .. and just makes me grotesquely sick enough to not want him again for another repeat of exactly 'this'...

 

Peace back tenfold HokeyReligions and God Bless you..

rose

[aroseInLove]

Imagine, this smaller 'camel spider' hissed fiercely at my son-in-law in Baghdad, Iraq as he tried to step on it while it was attempting to bite and kill him.. 'camel spiders' numb the skin with first bit of their injection so the person attacked won't know it if they were bitten.. especially dangerous while sleeping.. .. only bullets or being thrown into a fire can kill these 'camel spiders' ..They sting and shoot fatal venom in their effort to draw massive amounts of blood that they live on.. He says they're plentiful and they're called 'camel spiders' because they attack the bellies of camels to draw the most blood in one object.

 

God Bless them all..

rose

[amerikajin]

That's absolutely untrue. The "camel spider" (or solifugae) is non-venomous, and like most other creatures only bites humans by accident or out of a sense of desperation.

[Beth]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/bugs/camelspider.asp

 

Fact vs. myth about the camel spiders

[aroseInLove]

Originally posted by amerikajin

That's absolutely untrue. The "camel spider" (or solifugae) is non-venomous, and like most other creatures only bites humans by accident or out of a sense of desperation.

 

 

What I said here is his words... and he's no wimp; he is truly in fear as that's what he truly believes as was told to him.. and it's what his whole camp fears and all of them truly believe its venom.. including his commanders .... I just wrote this note to these people at snopes.com.. I'll post back their answer.

 

Amerikajin, what is your source? Believe me, I hope it's right..

 

Dear snopes.com:

 

My son-in-law is in Baghdad, Iraq. I can give you direct contact information if you like... This is NO joke.. NO exaggeration of lens or belief... He, along with his whole camp, including his commanders, truly DO believe 'camel spiders' attack and numb the skin and inject venom in their effort to draw blood...They are plentiful all over the camp and larger than that photo as well.. They are ordered to report for emergency treatment if bitten... that if not treated within so many hours they would die.. Now, I'm wondering what medical personnel would administer anti-venom drug IF it's non-venomous.. I want to know now exactly myth or fact and what they ARE taking.. Believe me, I hope this link is right.. One truly did hiss at my son-in-law.. but that could be the spider's desperation as he was trying to step on it... He said they could only die by fire or bullet... Please, it would take me forever to authenticate this link say to this camp that their camel spiders are non-venomous.. please tell me where you got your information from to call it a 'myth'.. while medical staff is literally treating those bitten? It doesn't make me happy to see your words that this photo may be exaggerated, thus, your credibility and respect level drops a few notches; they are in Iraq NOT Hollywood, and their loved ones like myself are saying prayers NOT headed to our local photo gallery for false sympathy.. If I can authenticate it's source, I'll send it to them in Iraq.. or you can do so yourself.. It'd be one less fear in their souls.. Thanks so much... Please email me your response.. Thank you.. God Bless, Rose

[Blucordwife]

With any bite you need to seek medical attention and especially with these spiders because of their size. I can't help you with the fact or myth because my husband didn;t say but he is scared of them. While in Iraq he sent one that was stuffed to my niece the size of his hand and he won't go near it. All you can do is be careful. Your family is in our thoughts keep supporting our soldiers even if you disagree with why they are there!!!

[amerikajin]

Notice that the snopes link is titled "urban legends", which is another way of saying the legend of the camel spider ain't true. Now for sure, you don't want to be bitten by one of these creatures, cause they probably hurt like hell. But they don't devour the stomachs of camels nor the flesh of man. They use mammal hair to line their burrow when laying eggs, not to devour or otherwise attack the animal itself.

[clia]

PLEASE DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH !! !!!!! !!!!!!! !!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!! !!!! !!! !!!!!! !!! VOTE FOR WHOMEVER will REVERSE NAFTA (offshore outsourcing)

 

Well, Kerry certainly doesn't want to repeal NAFTA. (Or at least I haven't been able to find anything that says he does--he did vote for it, back in the day.) NAFTA (and WTO) are a lot more than just offshore outsourcing.

[amerikajin]

Congress isn't going to reverse NAFTA or any other trade deal for that matter.