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cancelled - what 2 pay her?


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my friend, not my closest, asked me for £450 to build a website, £150 per page. I can get it done cheaper and want out. We spent a few hours brainstorming (not all her ideas were that good just 50/50) - big question - do i owe her for cancelling? I haven't contacted her yet. Don't quite want to.

 

Last thing I said was for her to work out a payment plan, what she'd need regularly as payment from me was up to her. I said this as I was leaving her place after brainstorming session. She has not contacted me.

 

I want to offer £30, as a thanks anyway - but business groundrules dictate that you should not offer money, I feel like I'm bribing her to forgive me tbh.

 

We have a few mutual acquaintances in common.

Edited by darkmoon
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If you did no work and she never paid you, there is no financial obligation on your part.

so how do I break it to her? she lent me a keynoard fr my PC so i can't avoid her

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I'm confused.... You can either give the keyboard back.... Or just tell her? Just say I feel like i might not have the skills you are looking for.

 

 

 

How does a web page designer need a keyboard.

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If choosing to cancel a verbal contract, give her the borrowed keyboard back and offer to compensate her for the time she invested in 'brainstorming'.

 

People use other people for ideas/work all the time, then implement them themselves or contract with cheaper labor to do the work. Hence, that's why I don't consult without a written contract unless I view the consult as a 'gift' of my time and clearly communicate that up front.

 

I recall a female friend showing up at one of my rentals with her own cleaning supplies in hand offering to assist with prep. I offered to compensate her, at minimum for her supplies; she refused. So, I did a little sleuthing, found out who her massage therapist was and paid for a few sessions and told the therapist to have a little fun with her as to who her 'Secret Santa' was.

 

Business can be cold and unemotional. Perhaps, sometimes, it's healthier that way. OTOH, it can also be healthy to be mindful of the human equation. Good luck.

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I'm confused.... You can either give the keyboard back.... Or just tell her? Just say I feel like i might not have the skills you are looking for.

 

How does a web page designer need a keyboard.

 

 

it was a loan off the cuff, too snowy to go shopping that day

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To me, if you are going to use any of her ideas.. even the collaborated ones or any of her work then YES you should pay her.

 

She owns any design ideas she created and in order for you to use them you would have to pay her for them.

 

If you are not using any of them and are moving to another designer because she wasn't doing it for you then no, you don't owe her anything.

 

If you value the friendship then come to an agreement on what to pay her.. something that both of you agree on of course

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To me, if you are going to use any of her ideas.. even the collaborated ones or any of her work then YES you should pay her.

 

She owns any design ideas she created and in order for you to use them you would have to pay her for them.

 

If you are not using any of them and are moving to another designer because she wasn't doing it for you then no, you don't owe her anything.

 

If you value the friendship then come to an agreement on what to pay her.. something that both of you agree on of course

 

what would you say is fair for three hours discussing words - not designs - with only 50/50 of them used? just wondering ...I can only afford £30, if I was in a good position financially, i could have hired her, so i ma stiuck at £30 - tell me how you would find more?! :confused: serious question.

 

This is not a close friendship I just see her around, known her thru other people - tbh - I don't emote much at work, keeping sentiment for my nearest n dearest

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imtooconfused

As one who is in the business... She asked to be paid on the finished project and not by the hour. Her loss. But you're asking whether it's fair to pay her £30 (or about £10 per hour) for her work. That would almost be an insult in my county for that kind of work. How much would you pay per hour for a doctor, lawyer, car mechanic, plumber. I bet you couldn't get your house cleaned for that rate. The keyboard she lent you is probably worth more than £30.

 

If you want to use her ideas, you have to ask her to bill you for the brainstorming session at her standard hourly rate. If you don't agree to pay her rate YOU CANNOT USE HER BRAINSTORMING IDEAS, end of story. So you are stuck with having to rely solely on the ideas your cut rate web designer can come up with.

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As one who is in the business... She asked to be paid on the finished project and not by the hour. Her loss. But you're asking whether it's fair to pay her £30 (or about £10 per hour) for her work. That would almost be an insult in my county for that kind of work. How much would you pay per hour for a doctor, lawyer, car mechanic, plumber. I bet you couldn't get your house cleaned for that rate. The keyboard she lent you is probably worth more than £30.

 

£450 would probably get you about a half day of work from a good website designer in the UK.

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£450 would probably get you about a half day of work from a good website designer in the UK.

 

define 'good' so that I understand more :)

and following on from that what then is a bad website designer?

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Good as in they know what they are doing and can evidence that.

 

Bad is not that. Pretty simple really.

 

how would you evidence either/both good and bad conclusively?

where is a benchmark trade standard written up? link please

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how would you evidence either/both good and bad conclusively?

where is a benchmark trade standard written up? link please

 

Link???

 

If you want to employ a web designer the best thing you can do is ask to see samples of work they have done before and obtain references from the people they did this work for. This is what I did when getting the company website updated a few years ago.

 

My initial post was purely about helping someone from outside the UK to get a better idea of rates in this country.

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Link???

 

If you want to employ a web designer the best thing you can do is ask to see samples of work they have done before and obtain references from the people they did this work for. This is what I did when getting the company website updated a few years ago.

 

My initial post was purely about helping someone from outside the UK to get a better idea of rates in this country.

 

daylight robbery when you see the DIY stuff in the market-place

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daylight robbery when you see the DIY stuff in the market-place

 

Well you also have to factor in the cost of your own time if you are doing it yourself and also whether you would get the same level of quality compared to getting a professional to do it for you.

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frostfire1337

Website design is real world work and you should pay her for the brainstorming time. That was time she lost from other projects. Pay her minimum wage for hours worked at the very least. I am a webdev.

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I want to offer £30, as a thanks anyway - but business groundrules dictate that you should not offer money, I feel like I'm bribing her to forgive me tbh.

 

Hm? Which business groundrules dictate that you should not offer money to someone you hired to do a job?

 

You did hire her to do a job, right? Yeah. You two agreed on the price of 450 for a website. Then you brainstormed together and came up with some ideas. She spent her time doing this with you because she was under the impression she was about to make 450.

 

What you want to do now is fire her, then take her ideas and give them to a cheaper web designer. That's not fair.

 

what would you say is fair for three hours discussing words - not designs - with only 50/50 of them used? just wondering ...I can only afford £30, if I was in a good position financially, i could have hired her, so i ma stiuck at £30

 

If you could only afford to pay her 30, then you should have told her that at the beginning so that she only would have given you 30 bucks worth of her time.

 

The way you've told it here, it really seems like you either misrepresented this job to your friend or you changed your mind, and that you're now about to screw her over pretty good. Don't do it, OP.

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Website design is real world work and you should pay her for the brainstorming time. That was time she lost from other projects. Pay her minimum wage for hours worked at the very least. I am a webdev.

 

Tell me more about why she/you charge what you do? I'd like a breakdown - itemised, please, hour by hour - just to clarify :)

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Hm? Which business groundrules dictate that you should not offer money to someone you hired to do a job?

 

You did hire her to do a job, right? Yeah. You two agreed on the price of 450 for a website. Then you brainstormed together and came up with some ideas. She spent her time doing this with you because she was under the impression she was about to make 450.

 

What you want to do now is fire her, then take her ideas and give them to a cheaper web designer. That's not fair.

 

If you could only afford to pay her 30, then you should have told her that at the beginning so that she only would have given you 30 bucks worth of her time.

 

The way you've told it here, it really seems like you either misrepresented this job to your friend or you changed your mind, and that you're now about to screw her over pretty good. Don't do it, OP.

 

 

The last thing I said to her when she left was "let me know what installments you'll want" (we're both broke) she hasn't got back to me about what installments she expected me to pay - what do you have to say about her lack of availability? :)

Edited by darkmoon
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The last thing I said to her when she left was "let me know what installments you'll want" (we're both broke) she hasn't got back to me about what installments she expected me to pay

 

So she hasn't billed you yet. That doesn't mean you don't owe her anything.

 

Why don't you have a chat with her? Tell her that you appreciate the work she did for you, but that you're going to go with someone else. Then ask her what you owe her for the work she's done so far.

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So she hasn't billed you yet. That doesn't mean you don't owe her anything.

 

Why don't you have a chat with her? Tell her that you appreciate the work she did for you, but that you're going to go with someone else. Then ask her what you owe her for the work she's done so far.

 

I have no intention of treating her badly, btw, but I'm not going to treat myself badly either, starting a business that might not even pay off means I could be in debt over a business start-up that yeilded nothing (an idiot in other words)

 

I tried to call her, twice - no reply - what do you say about her lack of availability?

Edited by darkmoon
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what do you say about her lack of availability?

 

I don't know, because you haven't described her lack of availability.

 

I do see that you seem to be grasping at straws for reasons not to pay her: "Only 50% of her ideas were good." "She hasn't given me a payment plan yet." "Business groundrules dictate that you don't pay." "How can you prove what is 'good' and what is 'bad'? Benchmark? Link please."

 

You're being kind of ridiculous. You owe your friend money. More than 30 quid or whatever. Ask her what she thinks you owe her, and either just pay her that amount or maybe negotiate from there.

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I don't know, because you haven't described her lack of availability.

 

I do see that you seem to be grasping at straws for reasons not to pay her: "Only 50% of her ideas were good." "She hasn't given me a payment plan yet." "Business groundrules dictate that you don't pay." "How can you prove what is 'good' and what is 'bad'? Benchmark? Link please."

 

You're being kind of ridiculous. You owe your friend money. More than 30 quid or whatever. Ask her what she thinks you owe her, and either just pay her that amount or maybe negotiate from there.

 

two unreturned phone calls - does she have to spell it out? she did say she had another site to do when we were at the meeting, more and more I think I have been sidelined - unreturned phone calls are a clear sign of unavailability

 

 

I think you are being ridiculous for clutching at straws. Why do I think this? Because we do not know what value continuing to hire her would be and yet you insist I'm at fault, while somebody else might see overcharging and slack office hours/not much work ethic. You are clutching at straws with which to bullly me - terrible netiquette - and you don't have much business savvy - we have no hourly breakdown of what a webdev does for the money, in spite of me asking in this very thread - so we are forced into dealing with a money mystery here. You are trying to be logical with only half the story at your disposal.

Edited by darkmoon
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two unreturned phone calls - does she have to spell it out? she did say she had another site to do when we were at the meeting, more and more I think I have been sidelined - unreturned phone calls are a clear sign of unavailability

 

Then why did you consider paying her any money at all? You thought 30 was fair for the work she did. What changed from then to now?

 

BTW, two unreturned phone calls does not mean you're off the hook.

 

You are clutching at straws with which to bullly me - terrible netiquette - and you don't have much business savvy - we have no hourly breakdown of what a webdev does for the money, in spite of me asking in this very thread - so we are forced into dealing with a money mystery here. You are trying to be logical with only half the story at your disposal.

 

lol @ "netiquette."

 

"We" are not forced into dealing with a money mystery here. You can just ask your friend what she thinks you owe her. "Money mystery" solved.

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