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Bankruptcy Due to Gas Prices


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Hi, I'm not sure if this question belongs in this forum, but I don't see a forum strictly for finances..

 

I'm in debt, some of it my poor spending habits but a lot of it is medical/dental bills, car repairs and vet bills for my cat. I'm struggling to pay it off, but with dedication and hard work I should be able to..unless..gas prices keep going up. Its not even Memorial Day and we are looking at $4 gas. If it goes up to $5 I'll have to file for bankruptcy.

 

I conserve gas when I can. I work 4 ten hour days and have 3 days off. On my 3 days off, I dont drive at all and walk everywhere. On the days I work, I have no choice but to drive 40 minutes each way. Where I live and where I work are perfect, so its hard to change either of those.

 

I haven't been that irresponsible w my money either. Bank of America (whom I owe) got a bail out and I ever got one, so now I'm getting ready to do what millions of others have been forced to do,,file bankruptcy due to our economy.

 

Is anyone else thinking of bankruptcy as a solution to paying high gas prices? I'm sure lots of people are and if gas does go up to $5 a gallon, this country will self destuct

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Is anyone else thinking of bankruptcy as a solution to paying high gas prices? I'm sure lots of people are and if gas does go up to $5 a gallon, this country will self destuct

 

 

You`ve got to be kidding me.

 

Gas should be $8.00 a gallon.

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TheLoneSock

Anyone working 40 hours a week should not be in bankruptcy territory. Either you are living far beyond your means, or you are living beyond your means.

 

See what I did there?

 

Be responsible with your money. Even if you have a family to support, there is a way to do it. Your financial life shouldn't be in shambles if you have a steady income, it's as simple as that.

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You still have to pay high gas prices if you file Ch13, presuming you continue to use gas.

 

Have you arranged a repayment plan for the medical/dental bills?

 

Do you own a home? You said BofA, who happens to service my home mortgage. They have resources available for a number of financial hardships.

 

FWIW, when I used to make loans, long before our current economic conditions, I often saw people who had good incomes but whose fiscal practices, combined with unexpected financial outlays, especially medical expenses, found themselves in difficult financial shape.

 

Have you run a recent credit report, with FICO, recently? You can get one for free or cheaply online.

 

Does your skillset allow you to moonlight on your days off? Even modestly paying work, if the costs (like gas) pan out, can be beneficial.

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Can you rideshare or take public transportation? I do the latter, and it saves me tons.

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Are you serious? I use premium fuel and I think it's around $55-$60 something bucks to fill up my car (I actually don't keep track to be honest because it doesn't affect me). How can you be so broke working 40 hours a week. Do you get paid $8 an hour? I didn't know people could be so broke. How broke can you be that an increase in gas prices will force you to file bankruptcy? Is this a joke? Let me guess; you don't have at least 6 months of living expenses savings saved up in case of emergency.

 

My suggestion is to find a better job and make more money. I would die if I was that broke...

Edited by J200
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Is anyone else thinking of bankruptcy as a solution to paying high gas prices? I'm sure lots of people are and if gas does go up to $5 a gallon, this country will self destuct

 

I seriously doubt it. I don't know anyone that broke or poor where a $5 p/gallon would lead them to self destruct... If it affects you that much you are probably living at the poverty level. Not being mean; just stating the truth.

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Can you rideshare or take public transportation? I do the latter, and it saves me tons.

 

Ridesharing's a great idea.

I was carpooling with a colleague and saving over a couple of hundred a month.

That adds up.

Edited by cerridwen
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ShatteredReality

Whether it is a political statement or not...there are plenty of people who are financially straining because of the state of the economy in the US. Raising gas prices only worsens this effect as not everyone can afford to trade in their vehicle for something more "fuel efficient", which many of those vehicle boasting to be are not as impressive as they claim.

 

Not everyone can just "go get a better job". Not everyone can afford the transportation to and from school in addition to their current jobs in order to get the education required for that better job. Not everyone has a job right now - just because the unemployment numbers look like they're going down doesn't mean they really and truly are by all that much. What's happening is some people are just being kicked off unemployment, which makes it look like the numbers have gone down, when in reality here they are two years later unable to find a job still. And maybe they're in school trying to do something different, or maybe they've had to file bankruptcy and take up a job making much less than they were before...or perhaps they've slipped into a depression and seem stuck in one place unable to move. Whatever the case, rising gas prices in an already strained economy isn't going to help. It raises the costs of EVERYTHING else. So while the fuel itself may not be the issue...maybe you drive less or carpool or whatever....you are now paying more for your food and if you want entertainment that will cost more as well. Travelling to see family....out of the question for some. The prices for airfare are nearly doubled in the summer...yet if you pull your kids out of school and travel in May it's nearly affordable.

 

Not everyone is wealthy...and those who aren't, even if they are relatively good with their money...having that 6 month cushion...well that's fabulous until you dip into it to pay for food for a week or gas to get to work....it will eventually dwindle because the fact of the matter is, the cost of living is going up, the worth of the dollar is going down, and wages are not moving very much at all.

 

If OP is truly in the dire straits depicted here then I feel for her...and if she has to file bankruptcy to get out of it that bites. No reason to jump off a bridge, it's not the end of the world...it's a do over and a restart....it will not be easy to go out and buy a house right away or get a new car or any of those things, but if the banks and big corporations can do it then why not the people?

 

Eh....do what you will...just saying...not everyone is rich....and if you file it's not the end of the world....

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Why the **** should gas be 8 bucks a gallon? My pay is not going up and we are pinching just to afford gas to get to the bus stop. It is not always easy to find a better job. Go try it and see.

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Is everyone ELSE here joking? Your prices of gas are meaningless to me becasue I'm from Canada and we go by the litre, but per litre here, it's $1.35 or more. And it's supposed to go up way more by the time summer is here.

 

I don't know if all the people who posted on here make AT LEAST $80 000 a year and have no troubles affording necessities that are increasing in price or what, but the price of gas, at least where I am, is quite ridiculous and I have no idea how the average person is going to be able to fill up their car if it doubles in price like it's supposed to.

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ShatteredReality, Thank you for your post. It was well thought out and non-damning to the matter at hand. Until someone goes thru the hardships of economic strife they really have no rights to be ignorant of those who going thru it. I have endured Bread and butter days and no job. Stuff happens.

 

I literally live pay check to pay check even in a well paying job, due to family circumstances that take precedences. And I do NOT regret taking in an ill relative.

 

Bankruptcy is not a bad word or a shameful one. It is a legal avenue necessary for some. TO the OP, Not sure you qualify though, seek professional advisal.

 

Oddly funny story: I went thru Debt counseling, Counselor said: You will need to give up Internet and payments involving there of. THat will free up about 40$ a month. Ohh and we started a new program you may be interested in, just log on to www,Blahblahblah. I about fell on the floor laughing! I am like Okay let me get this straight you are promoting an online website with FREE information to help me get financially straight yet you then proceed to tell me to get rid of internet access??? She kinda gives me that huh look and then says, ohh we accept electronic payments which you can log in to pay! I am like Listen Lady, call me when you and your group get off crack ,because you just made no sense to this gal. And I left. *End true story.

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Why the **** should gas be 8 bucks a gallon? My pay is not going up and we are pinching just to afford gas to get to the bus stop. It is not always easy to find a better job. Go try it and see.

 

Ride a bike.

 

Gas prices in most industrial nations are more than twice what we pay in the US.

 

When gas is $8.00 a gallon maybe people will stop using it like air and won`t be doing things like driving to the bus stop.

;)

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hoping2heal
Hi, I'm not sure if this question belongs in this forum, but I don't see a forum strictly for finances..

 

I'm in debt, some of it my poor spending habits but a lot of it is medical/dental bills, car repairs and vet bills for my cat. I'm struggling to pay it off, but with dedication and hard work I should be able to..unless..gas prices keep going up. Its not even Memorial Day and we are looking at $4 gas. If it goes up to $5 I'll have to file for bankruptcy.

 

I conserve gas when I can. I work 4 ten hour days and have 3 days off. On my 3 days off, I dont drive at all and walk everywhere. On the days I work, I have no choice but to drive 40 minutes each way. Where I live and where I work are perfect, so its hard to change either of those.

 

I haven't been that irresponsible w my money either. Bank of America (whom I owe) got a bail out and I ever got one, so now I'm getting ready to do what millions of others have been forced to do,,file bankruptcy due to our economy.

 

Is anyone else thinking of bankruptcy as a solution to paying high gas prices? I'm sure lots of people are and if gas does go up to $5 a gallon, this country will self destruct

 

Like others have said, if you are in bankruptcy territory you are living beyond your means, which yes, does lead to bankruptcy for many people. It is not the price of gas that has gotten you where you are today, it is your current spending habbits. You do not want Bankruptcy, it's time to sit down and be really honest with yourself and make some changes. Since you have made the decision to own a cat, which is an additional expense such as vet bills, etc. then you need to start looking into a savings account and putting aside money for times when you need to have the car repairs done, the cat needs to see the vet, etc.

 

If you don't learn how to use your money properly now, you will be right back at square one in no time.

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hoping2heal
ShatteredReality, Thank you for your post. It was well thought out and non-damning to the matter at hand. Until someone goes thru the hardships of economic strife they really have no rights to be ignorant of those who going thru it. I have endured Bread and butter days and no job. Stuff happens.

 

I literally live pay check to pay check even in a well paying job, due to family circumstances that take precedences. And I do NOT regret taking in an ill relative.

 

Bankruptcy is not a bad word or a shameful one. It is a legal avenue necessary for some.

 

Actually, it is. For the next 7 years it will be. You will miss out on lower interest rates, provided you even qualify for certain loans should you want to purchase a home for example. Which means, you will pay more on your mortgage. People need to start looking at finances in the long-term spectrum of things. How the decisions they make today will affect their financial status in the future.

 

You are correct, things do happen and sometimes people cannot get work or high wages, which means it's time to cut out the luxuries until that time happens. That may mean moving to a different apartment, turning off cable television, getting rid of the cell-phone. There are a lot of people complaining that the economy is bad and there is no work - the economy is bad and the job market is stiff - many people right now have no choice but to take a job that pays lower than what they are qualified for but the most determined people still do it.

 

There is a lot of excuse making and blame-shifting when it comes to financial matters. People living far beyond their means by taking out a mortgage they can't really afford, and living on consumer credit lines until they hit a brick wall and then suddenly the bust comes and they cannot continue to do so and now it is the economies fault and they are victims of the real-estate crisis.

 

In reality, many people don't want to do what is necessary to live in their means. They want the extra luxuries, they don't want to give them up and that is what more often than not really leads to people needing to file for bankruptcy "out of necessity". It is more common that people fall on these financial hard times because of poor spending habits, than just "bad luck".

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ShatteredReality
Actually, it is. For the next 7 years it will be. You will miss out on lower interest rates, provided you even qualify for certain loans should you want to purchase a home for example. Which means, you will pay more on your mortgage. People need to start looking at finances in the long-term spectrum of things. How the decisions they make today will affect their financial status in the future.

 

You are correct, things do happen and sometimes people cannot get work or high wages, which means it's time to cut out the luxuries until that time happens. That may mean moving to a different apartment, turning off cable television, getting rid of the cell-phone. There are a lot of people complaining that the economy is bad and there is no work - the economy is bad and the job market is stiff - many people right now have no choice but to take a job that pays lower than what they are qualified for but the most determined people still do it.

 

There is a lot of excuse making and blame-shifting when it comes to financial matters. People living far beyond their means by taking out a mortgage they can't really afford, and living on consumer credit lines until they hit a brick wall and then suddenly the bust comes and they cannot continue to do so and now it is the economies fault and they are victims of the real-estate crisis.

 

In reality, many people don't want to do what is necessary to live in their means. They want the extra luxuries, they don't want to give them up and that is what more often than not really leads to people needing to file for bankruptcy "out of necessity". It is more common that people fall on these financial hard times because of poor spending habits, than just "bad luck".

 

 

I am with Tayla on the Bankruptcy issue here. It may seem like it's a bad word...and it will increase interest rates on credit cards and car loans and the like, but if you already own your house or are buying it, those are exactly the types of bills you don't need anyway. Maybe the higher interest rate would help a person NOT get another credit card or vehicle unless they HAVE to? Even more than that...we as a society have been lured into this sense that we can buy things in advance and pay after the purchase. The banks even do this, so do large corporations - hence the large bailout for all of them.

 

If, after you file chapter 7, you do nothing to mar your credit for 2 yrs (opposed to the 7 everyone whines about - and it actually stays on record for 10), you will be able to get decent interest rates. Filing Bankruptcy isn't the end of the world. I know plenty of people who have done it - there are some things you cannot file on, though, so you have to weigh those in and see if it is worth it. Even though it's nothing to commit suicide over (as some over dramatically proclaimed they would), it is still not the best choice you can make if you have another option. If you don't have another option - it's file or lose your home type of thing - then so be it.

 

Also, time and unforeseen occurance can cause even the financially smartest people to go broke. If a person loses a job they cannot move out of their home and downgrade all of their bills immediatetely. If they are wise enough to have 3-6 mo put away then they begin to live off of that...if they take a job making less then perhaps they can adjust their living to accomodate, but the basics - Food, electricity, transportation to and from work, housing - are all still there. Clothing needs to be purchased/replaced, vehicles need to be upkept - even bikes if you choose to ride instead of drive. There are common expenses for every person that need to be met. In the US many people commute to work - an hour driving in the car equates to what on a bicycle? And how would YOU look if you rode into work on your bike after an hour? Not everyone has a job that allows them the luxury of a shower once they arrive, nor is everyone allowed to come in looking like they just finished circuit training at the gym down the street. The society here has been taught to live off of transportation to get further in order to make it to these jobs. The living quarters near many of these jobs aren't adequate or affordable in all cases for the people doing the work, so dropping their home and moving closer isn't always a viable option either.

 

Basically, rather than criticize people for the positions they're in, why is it more people can't step up and offer viable suggestions on ways to improve their individual situation. Then the person can take the suggestions or not. Money isn't the only thing that's important in this world. It is important, though, so it's best if we can learn to balance our monetary needs with everything else. Owning a cat is seen by many as more than just an additional expense - for OP here it's probably a form of companionship. A cat is most likely less expensive than a child...but will you tell me to give up my kids in order to live more "in my means" as gas and food prices rise and my income does not?

 

Trust me, my personal scenario has us considering walking away from our house...what kind of hit to our credit will that be? But we're 30k upsidedown and since my husband lost his job we are going to have to make some choices - and soon. In the last two years we've had two deaths in the family - people who you kind of have to attend their funerals - resulting in time off and travel expenses not previously planned for, as well and contributing to the events in question, so that ate into whatever extra we had...And my commute to work (a job I currently cannot change in short order) is a 45 min drive without bad traffic conditions and an hour to two hours in bad traffic...riding the bus (I have priced it) is roughly the same price as driving with an increase in travel time by more than doubling how long it takes to get to and from work....Hmmm...Yeah that's me being stubborn and not wanting to live inside my means isn't it? No. It's me wanting to have some time with my children - my quality of life should not suffer, nor should the quality of life of my children and husband suffer so badly just because greedy corporations the world over decide to increase living costs beyond what is fair to the "middle class" thus widening the gap between the wealthy and those in poverty. When it comes down to it, it's priorities. If I am poor and living in a two bedroom apartment but I have my family I will be ok...but do I feel Like I should have to give up everything that I worked hard for to do it? No...if my credit is going to go to hell by walking away from my house, at this point, I feel like I should stick it out at least awhile to see if I have other options...and if I don't then my credits going to hell anyhow, so why worry about it. Money is such a silly thing to get suicidal over.

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Hoping2heal- Correct to a point, where you strayed; and I strongly emphasize we disagree is the very thing an informed and experienced person can relay:

 

Bankruptcy *IS* a legal avenue and one that is necessary in some cases. What your own personal *moral* compass is on it is your own to review and grow some knowledge about. I am not here to explain the true course of why bankruptcy can be an aide in dire situation.

 

Thank you Shattered for your summation. It carries the realistic approach and deserves to be read.

 

I can only hope the person who started this post and has now fleed the scene comes back to get some feedback that is worthy of consideration.

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I am with Tayla on the Bankruptcy issue here. It may seem like it's a bad word...and it will increase interest rates on credit cards and car loans and the like, but if you already own your house or are buying it, those are exactly the types of bills you don't need anyway. Maybe the higher interest rate would help a person NOT get another credit card or vehicle unless they HAVE to? Even more than that...we as a society have been lured into this sense that we can buy things in advance and pay after the purchase. The banks even do this, so do large corporations - hence the large bailout for all of them.

 

If, after you file chapter 7, you do nothing to mar your credit for 2 yrs (opposed to the 7 everyone whines about - and it actually stays on record for 10), you will be able to get decent interest rates. Filing Bankruptcy isn't the end of the world. I know plenty of people who have done it - there are some things you cannot file on, though, so you have to weigh those in and see if it is worth it. Even though it's nothing to commit suicide over (as some over dramatically proclaimed they would), it is still not the best choice you can make if you have another option. If you don't have another option - it's file or lose your home type of thing - then so be it.

 

Also, time and unforeseen occurance can cause even the financially smartest people to go broke. If a person loses a job they cannot move out of their home and downgrade all of their bills immediatetely. If they are wise enough to have 3-6 mo put away then they begin to live off of that...if they take a job making less then perhaps they can adjust their living to accomodate, but the basics - Food, electricity, transportation to and from work, housing - are all still there. Clothing needs to be purchased/replaced, vehicles need to be upkept - even bikes if you choose to ride instead of drive. There are common expenses for every person that need to be met. In the US many people commute to work - an hour driving in the car equates to what on a bicycle? And how would YOU look if you rode into work on your bike after an hour? Not everyone has a job that allows them the luxury of a shower once they arrive, nor is everyone allowed to come in looking like they just finished circuit training at the gym down the street. The society here has been taught to live off of transportation to get further in order to make it to these jobs. The living quarters near many of these jobs aren't adequate or affordable in all cases for the people doing the work, so dropping their home and moving closer isn't always a viable option either.

 

Basically, rather than criticize people for the positions they're in, why is it more people can't step up and offer viable suggestions on ways to improve their individual situation. Then the person can take the suggestions or not. Money isn't the only thing that's important in this world. It is important, though, so it's best if we can learn to balance our monetary needs with everything else. Owning a cat is seen by many as more than just an additional expense - for OP here it's probably a form of companionship. A cat is most likely less expensive than a child...but will you tell me to give up my kids in order to live more "in my means" as gas and food prices rise and my income does not?

 

Trust me, my personal scenario has us considering walking away from our house...what kind of hit to our credit will that be? But we're 30k upsidedown and since my husband lost his job we are going to have to make some choices - and soon. In the last two years we've had two deaths in the family - people who you kind of have to attend their funerals - resulting in time off and travel expenses not previously planned for, as well and contributing to the events in question, so that ate into whatever extra we had...And my commute to work (a job I currently cannot change in short order) is a 45 min drive without bad traffic conditions and an hour to two hours in bad traffic...riding the bus (I have priced it) is roughly the same price as driving with an increase in travel time by more than doubling how long it takes to get to and from work....Hmmm...Yeah that's me being stubborn and not wanting to live inside my means isn't it? No. It's me wanting to have some time with my children - my quality of life should not suffer, nor should the quality of life of my children and husband suffer so badly just because greedy corporations the world over decide to increase living costs beyond what is fair to the "middle class" thus widening the gap between the wealthy and those in poverty. When it comes down to it, it's priorities. If I am poor and living in a two bedroom apartment but I have my family I will be ok...but do I feel Like I should have to give up everything that I worked hard for to do it? No...if my credit is going to go to hell by walking away from my house, at this point, I feel like I should stick it out at least awhile to see if I have other options...and if I don't then my credits going to hell anyhow, so why worry about it. Money is such a silly thing to get suicidal over.

 

This is a really thoughtful post. Sometimes, no matter how well you plan, things don't go according to plan. Like I know some people who were doing fine until a serious illness came along...isht happens. I'm sure no one would want to be in that situation, but it does happen.

 

Are you serious? I use premium fuel and I think it's around $55-$60 something bucks to fill up my car (I actually don't keep track to be honest because it doesn't affect me). How can you be so broke working 40 hours a week. Do you get paid $8 an hour? I didn't know people could be so broke. How broke can you be that an increase in gas prices will force you to file bankruptcy? Is this a joke? Let me guess; you don't have at least 6 months of living expenses savings saved up in case of emergency.

 

My suggestion is to find a better job and make more money. I would die if I was that broke...

 

Please tell me this is not serious. Please. If not, then this is the most clueless post I have ever read.

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Ride a bike.

 

Gas prices in most industrial nations are more than twice what we pay in the US.

 

When gas is $8.00 a gallon maybe people will stop using it like air and won`t be doing things like driving to the bus stop.

;)

 

Clearly you do not understand the hardships of a lot of people. If I lived in an urban area I'd be very glad to use public transport as would most people. I live 80 kms from my girlfriend and I can either drive there for an hour or catch a 4 hour bus. With the cost of everything rising the last thing people need is cost of petrol doubling. If it did I wouldn't be able to see my girlfriend or go to the

shops or anything. I just don't have the time in my day to spend an hour or more on public transport or bike getting basic needs.

 

Not everyone is in an ideal situation. I already spend 2 hours to and 2 hours from university on a train and tram every day. The train station is also a 20 min drive from my house. Without my car I'd be screwed, as would most people.

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Star Gazer

Regular unleaded in NorCal is ranging around $4.40-4.50 right now. It's a whopping $13-15 more a tank than it was last year. Assuming I don't go out of town and am just commuting, that's an extra $60 a month... TOTALLY bankruptcy worthy!! What have I been thinking?!?!?!

 

:rolleyes:

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This is a really thoughtful post. Sometimes, no matter how well you plan, things don't go according to plan. Like I know some people who were doing fine until a serious illness came along...isht happens. I'm sure no one would want to be in that situation, but it does happen.

 

 

 

Please tell me this is not serious. Please. If not, then this is the most clueless post I have ever read.

 

No, I'm actually serious...

 

I don't like Stargazer at all whatsoever but I agree with her post... It's an extra $60 or so a month... How can that make you so broke that you need to file bankruptcy? I don't see how it's possible unless you're making like $10 an hour.

 

Honestly, I don't know anyone who is "immensely" affected by gas prices; most people that I know have good jobs and careers and could care less about losing out an extra $60 a month etc. Something like this would only affect you if you are literally living paycheck to paycheck or hand to mouth and I don't know anyone like that.

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manic_mermaid
No, I'm actually serious...

 

I don't like Stargazer at all whatsoever but I agree with her post... It's an extra $60 or so a month... How can that make you so broke that you need to file bankruptcy? I don't see how it's possible unless you're making like $10 an hour.

 

Honestly, I don't know anyone who is "immensely" affected by gas prices; most people that I know have good jobs and careers and could care less about losing out an extra $60 a month etc. Something like this would only affect you if you are literally living paycheck to paycheck or hand to mouth and I don't know anyone like that.

 

Wow. Just wow. I do not post often but I have to respond to this. So first you say this isn't possible unless someone is making $8 an hour, now it is $10. Do you know what minimum wage is? Do you know that some people DO make $8 or $10 an hour?

 

How is the fact that you don't know anyone in this situation relevant to this discussion? Who cares if most people you know have good jobs and careers and aren't affected by $60 a month? Most people I know are not as ignorant as you.

 

As for the OP, yes I am stressed by raising gas prices and so are many people I know. You are in a tough situation that your finances are so tight that this is what could tip you over the edge. I know that many times I have had to look at some things I took for granted as a "necessity" and cut them out, only to find I really don't miss them.

 

Good luck to you.

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Wow. Just wow. I do not post often but I have to respond to this. So first you say this isn't possible unless someone is making $8 an hour, now it is $10. Do you know what minimum wage is? Do you know that some people DO make $8 or $10 an hour?

 

How is the fact that you don't know anyone in this situation relevant to this discussion? Who cares if most people you know have good jobs and careers and aren't affected by $60 a month? Most people I know are not as ignorant as you.

 

As for the OP, yes I am stressed by raising gas prices and so are many people I know. You are in a tough situation that your finances are so tight that this is what could tip you over the edge. I know that many times I have had to look at some things I took for granted as a "necessity" and cut them out, only to find I really don't miss them.

 

Good luck to you.

 

There's no difference to me between $8 an hour or $10 or $11 an hour; they are all poverty level to me. If you are an adult and have been out of college for a few years you got SERIOUS ISSUES if you are that broke that you can't spare an extra $100 a month. It means your life is F'ed up and that you need help. I am not joking; I am serious.

 

The only excuse for being that broke is if you are a college student, just graduated and looking for a job or are unemployed. If you are a grown adult and been working for many years and scraping by then you are pretty much a mess and need to seriously re-evaluate your life and find out where you went wrong and what you can do to fix your life. No one should be that broke that they are living on the edge of homelessness. (Trust me, if you can't spare extra money for gas, you are pretty much almost there). I am only speaking the truth.

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