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Equal opportunity employment sucks sometimes!


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...And I say sometimes because of course the premise is altruistic, but it sucks that I am going to miss out on a great employee.

 

My boss and I interviewed 10 prospective assistants that I will have to work closely with. One stood out- all her qualifications were outstanding, she has the experience I am looking for, a perfect fit in terms of our personalities... BUT, I can't hire her!

 

HR informed me today, when I submitted her as my number one candidate, that in order to ensure we remain ethnically diverse, that I need to look for an assistant that better fits that profile. They didn't tell me I had to- but they encouraged me to submit 2 more possible candidates that fit into that mold. I talked to my boss after and she claimed that although she liked my choice as well, we should interview a little further to accomodate company policy.

 

I am truly pissed. The girl I chose was perfect for the job- but apparantly she is too white! They aren't saying that outright, but it is heavily implied.

 

It saddens me that the people with the best qualifications can and are looked over in order to accomodate a quota. I was looking forward to working with this girl because she was perfectly qualified.

 

Anyone else have experience with this?

I am new to corporate life, and sometimes the politics upset me.

I don't care about someone's ethnicity- I just want the best possible person for the job.

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EEO can be interesting along with quotas, perceptions, etc... can't blame HR on that aspect.

 

What I've done in the past is submit 2-3 names with a suggested order of preference.

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Years ago, I had the opposite happen. I was told by my CEO that I hired too many minorities, that we need to bump up our quota of WASPs, to ensure that the image of a WASP company was maintained. So yes, I hear you.

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Most people who don't get jobs aren't too white, they're either too unqualified or too stupid. Perhaps those shouldn't be discriminated against either. After all, they too have to eat!

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Most people who don't get jobs aren't too white, they're either too unqualified or too stupid. Perhaps those shouldn't be discriminated against either. After all, they too have to eat!

 

I just think it's wrong to discriminate against ANYBODY based on the colour of their skin.

 

When hiring an assistant, I want the most qualified person, and no one else compared to the girl I wanted:(.

 

It just burns my ass that this poor girl has done everything right, had her schooling, experience, credentials- and despite being the right fit, she's being discriminated against.

 

I chatted with my boss tonight while I was babysitting my nephews, and she told me to hang tight, that she was going to go to bat for this girl because she thinks she has a lot of potential. She said she thinks because I am newer to the company that HR is just wanting to hammer the point. However, of the last 4 managers I have hired for our stores- 3 of the 4 have been gay, asian, and latino - the other I promoted from assistant manager and she was white. So- I think I am establishing a track record of adhering to company hiring practices.

 

It's just frustrating. Anyway, my boss is going to the head of HR to talk to him directly.

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Yup, it should be the best person for the job, regardless of race, beliefs, gender or anything. That's why it was so disturbing to me, when that old CEO told this to me. I was pissed and he knew it.

 

Let's hope your boss gets through to them, particularly with your track record of non-discrimination.

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Wait a minute...are you saying that it is unfair to have people not get equal opportunities based solely on the color of their skin or sexual orientation? Man...I suppose minorities would have no empathy in this situation ;)

 

OK..on a serious note. This is what it was like for most minorities forever. So I feel you...yeah it sucks. Now one thing to keep in mind, it seems the upper management wanted a few more submissions, so, maybe you just need to say you are considering some more diverse applicants..but your favorite will still get the job. They just have to look like they are open to hiring diversity...not actually do it.

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Yup, it should be the best person for the job, regardless of race, beliefs, gender or anything. That's why it was so disturbing to me, when that old CEO told this to me. I was pissed and he knew it.

 

Let's hope your boss gets through to them, particularly with your track record of non-discrimination.

 

Yep, I left in a huff. But my office is comprised of mostly gay men and women, so they are used to a little drama.:)

 

My direct boss is really awesome, positive and supportive. There aren't too many boss's that will phone you on a friday night to check in and offer support.

 

On a side note TBF, I just got home from babysitting my nephews- 1 1/2 and almost 3- and I'm exhausted! I have crackers in my hair and I'm sticky- something for you to look forward to:p

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greatgirlfriend

This is why I say white women are the most discriminated against. Minorities have affirmative action and white males have traditionally had the upper hand in businesses. After being discriminated due to being white I am against affirmative action. I list my race often as "other" just to get an interview.

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Wait a minute...are you saying that it is unfair to have people not get equal opportunities based solely on the color of their skin or sexual orientation? Man...I suppose minorities would have no empathy in this situation ;)

 

OK..on a serious note. This is what it was like for most minorities forever. So I feel you...yeah it sucks. Now one thing to keep in mind, it seems the upper management wanted a few more submissions, so, maybe you just need to say you are considering some more diverse applicants..but your favorite will still get the job. They just have to look like they are open to hiring diversity...not actually do it.

 

No- I am not saying that at all. I am saying that everyone should have an equal shot at the job regardless of their race, ethnicity, gender, etc. But hopefully, the best person for the job, regardless of their ethnicity, should get the job.

 

HR submitted all those resumes to me in the first place and asked me to submit my request for the most qualified applicant- and that's what I did.

 

It doesn't make sense to me to hire someone underqualified that is only going to make more work for me.

 

If you read my posts- 75% of the people I have already hired have been- gay, asian, latino...

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Yep, I left in a huff. But my office is comprised of mostly gay men and women, so they are used to a little drama.:)

 

My direct boss is really awesome, positive and supportive. There aren't too many boss's that will phone you on a friday night to check in and offer support.

 

On a side note TBF, I just got home from babysitting my nephews- 1 1/2 and almost 3- and I'm exhausted! I have crackers in my hair and I'm sticky- something for you to look forward to:p

Your new job and boss both sound awesome. I'm so glad you dusted yourself off and found something so ideal for you!

 

What I've found about my past bosses, is that if they're contacting me after-hours, it's 'cause they needed me to do something for them. :p To find one that's calling to support and willing to go to bat for you, for this discrimination case, is fantastic!

 

Haha...yes something to look forward to with Bump! Sounds like old-times with my nephews and even now, with the little ones at friends' parties. I always end up with some sticky fingerprints on me, and only notice them when I get home. :laugh:

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This is why I say white women are the most discriminated against. Minorities have affirmative action and white males have traditionally had the upper hand in businesses. After being discriminated due to being white I am against affirmative action. I list my race often as "other" just to get an interview.

 

Last I saw, women were the fastest growing segment of the workforce. I don't disagree that women still face hurdles, but I think the opportunities for women are growing compared to men.

 

Personally, I used to be a supporter of affirmative action and similar programs; however, I've changed my attitudes over the years. I think that making a special effort to recruit and hire minority employees is a noble goal, and I support many of those efforts. I think the way to do that is to have a permanent minority recruiting committee to network with and scout out minority candidates - not to guarantee each person they meet a job, but just to go out, to identify talent that might get otherwise overlooked, and to put the word out "We can't guarantee you a job, but we think you might have what it takes. Why not send in an application and see what happens?" That's good old fashioned recruiting. That's being proactive.

 

The problem with affirmative action as it's now practiced is that it's a reactive process in a lot of cases - maybe not all, but in most of the ones I've seen. A position becomes available, HR puts out feelers, then an ad in the paper, and then they receive stacks of resumes, hoping that a few of them are qualified minority candidates. Then they set out to hire a minority while essentially giving token interviews to everyone else. That's just a waste of everyone's time and it ends up biting the company in the rear later. Not to mention, it's not even helping the minority candidates it's supposed to be helping. Nobody benefits when unqualified people are hired.

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Your new job and boss both sound awesome. I'm so glad you dusted yourself off and found something so ideal for you!

 

What I've found about my past bosses, is that if they're contacting me after-hours, it's 'cause they needed me to do something for them. :p To find one that's calling to support and willing to go to bat for you, for this discrimination case, is fantastic!

 

Haha...yes something to look forward to with Bump! Sounds like old-times with my nephews and even now, with the little ones at friends' parties. I always end up with some sticky fingerprints on me, and only notice them when I get home. :laugh:

 

Yeah, it's quite amazing that the things that would normally gross you out just don't apply in these situations.:p

 

My boss is just one of those women that really knows how to manage people in a way that makes you want to work your heart out for them. It's inspiring- and it makes me want to be a better boss too.

 

I did interview one other person that I liked- and he way gay, and I am deciding between two others.

 

If you are a gay man- you're golden in my business.:p

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Anyone else have experience with this?

I am new to corporate life, and sometimes the politics upset me.

I don't care about someone's ethnicity- I just want the best possible person for the job.

 

I have some experience with this. Your company is engaging in illegal racial discrimination in subtly rejecting your top choice due strictly to race as an edict from HR after an interview process. It's one thing to have a stated policy that seeks diversity and taking steps to enact such policy, quite another to specifically reject a preferred candidate after an interview process based on race alone, whatever their race may be.

 

If your company wants to promote diversity, HR should cultivate a pool of diverse applicants directly by recruiting them, rather than conducting an interview process and then ruling out the top candidate due to race.

 

Your corporate legal department or lawyer should be apprised of this so they can correct how this type of thing is handled in the future, however that is not your job, so no specific action on your part. You don't want to be perceived as a "trouble maker" in a new job. Maybe down the road you might mention this to your boss.

 

The odds of the candidate finding out are extremely remote, but it's best to correct illegal corporate procedures when they arise. Best wishes with your job. If the candidate found out about this, and could make the case, the company can be easily and successfully sued.

 

The above is just a general brief discussion, not legal advice.

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Left in a Lurch
I just think it's wrong to discriminate against ANYBODY based on the colour of their skin.

 

When hiring an assistant, I want the most qualified person, and no one else compared to the girl I wanted:(.

 

It just burns my ass that this poor girl has done everything right, had her schooling, experience, credentials- and despite being the right fit, she's being discriminated against.

 

I chatted with my boss tonight while I was babysitting my nephews, and she told me to hang tight, that she was going to go to bat for this girl because she thinks she has a lot of potential. She said she thinks because I am newer to the company that HR is just wanting to hammer the point. However, of the last 4 managers I have hired for our stores- 3 of the 4 have been gay, asian, and latino - the other I promoted from assistant manager and she was white. So- I think I am establishing a track record of adhering to company hiring practices.

 

It's just frustrating. Anyway, my boss is going to the head of HR to talk to him directly.

 

Sounds like a company I don't want to invest in.

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TwinkletOes26

Actually WHITE WOMEN are the ones who benefit most from affirmative action statistically....just thought id add that in there. The issue is in order for this whole nonsense to stop why dont they start teaching people that someones skin color doesnt make them inferior. If it wasnt for the good ole boys club up at the top things would be better.

 

You know applicants with ethnic sounding names are ten times less likely to be called back than someone with a white sounding name? Shondrika cant help what her name is nor more than beth can. Equal opportunity with education as well. Schools in the inner city get less funding than schools in the suburbs even less not thanks to no child left behind. ...i could go on and on and on but i wont. Oh well back to filling out resumes....

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If it wasnt for the good ole boys club up at the top things would be better.

 

Last time I checked, the dude at the top in the US was a minority. That excuse isn't going to work anymore...

 

You know applicants with ethnic sounding names are ten times less likely to be called back than someone with a white sounding name? Shondrika cant help what her name is nor more than beth can. Equal opportunity with education as well. Schools in the inner city get less funding than schools in the suburbs even less not thanks to no child left behind. ...i could go on and on and on but i wont. Oh well back to filling out resumes....

 

Names have cultural undertones as well. Shaniqua and Michelle may both be black, but admittedly one does sound more... professional. Same thing with Nikki vs. Nicole, etc.

 

Many schools get funding based on property taxes. Property taxes in the inner city bring in substantially less than the 'burbs.

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I just think it's wrong to discriminate against ANYBODY based on the colour of their skin.

 

When hiring an assistant, I want the most qualified person, and no one else compared to the girl I wanted:(.

 

It just burns my ass that this poor girl has done everything right, had her schooling, experience, credentials- and despite being the right fit, she's being discriminated against.

 

I chatted with my boss tonight while I was babysitting my nephews, and she told me to hang tight, that she was going to go to bat for this girl because she thinks she has a lot of potential. She said she thinks because I am newer to the company that HR is just wanting to hammer the point. However, of the last 4 managers I have hired for our stores- 3 of the 4 have been gay, asian, and latino - the other I promoted from assistant manager and she was white. So- I think I am establishing a track record of adhering to company hiring practices.

 

It's just frustrating. Anyway, my boss is going to the head of HR to talk to him directly.

 

Amen, and another amen...I could care less if a person is purple, green or blue...if they are the best qualified, that should be the criteria.

 

My ex fiancee was discriminated against because of his color of skin concerning the fire dept and had to wait until he was almost 40 to qualify...I am thinking the reason he finally did was AGE, that finally qualified him.

 

He was WAY over qualified for years, go figure.

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Actually WHITE WOMEN are the ones who benefit most from affirmative action statistically....just thought id add that in there. The issue is in order for this whole nonsense to stop why dont they start teaching people that someones skin color doesnt make them inferior. If it wasnt for the good ole boys club up at the top things would be better.

 

You know applicants with ethnic sounding names are ten times less likely to be called back than someone with a white sounding name? Shondrika cant help what her name is nor more than beth can. Equal opportunity with education as well. Schools in the inner city get less funding than schools in the suburbs even less not thanks to no child left behind. ...i could go on and on and on but i wont. Oh well back to filling out resumes....

 

Actually, ya...being a woman got me a job once....

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You know applicants with ethnic sounding names are ten times less likely to be called back than someone with a white sounding name? Shondrika cant help what her name is nor more than beth can. Equal opportunity with education as well. Schools in the inner city get less funding than schools in the suburbs even less not thanks to no child left behind. ...i could go on and on and on but i wont. Oh well back to filling out resumes....

 

I was just about to make this same exact point. And to the original poster, you don't need to worry about that girl - if she's as good as you say she is, she will find another job pretty quickly, and I'm sure you'll find someone as qualified as she was.

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This really sucks - this so-called "Affirmative action" all a load of BS, I have no idea why the people who set those policies are so dumb, obviously they got to their positions in just this way....

 

The easier way would be anonymous resumes and applications (ok a little more difficult with interviews) totally addresses the problem of prejudice and discrimination without any of the ill side-effects... Of course I did it personally : my own resume never included my skin color, genetic-origin, gender or age.... And I very much doubt it hindered my career.....

Edited by Neutrino
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I was just about to make this same exact point. And to the original poster, you don't need to worry about that girl - if she's as good as you say she is, she will find another job pretty quickly, and I'm sure you'll find someone as qualified as she was.

 

Well I have an update- I interviewed more applicants today and I found two more applicants that I'd consider adequate. I submitted them to HR this afternoon and left it with them.

 

What really bothers me is that I feel like I am participating in something that feels wrong. It's discrimination no matter how you look at it and I honestly feel conflicted over it.

 

I have to be very careful how I tread with this because I don't want to question company policy- but it seems ridiculous to me to deny someone a position they qualify for because of the colour of their skin. It goes against the very premise of what equal opportunity employment was originally inspired by doesn't it?

 

I know that people in the past have missed out on great jobs because they were discriminated against- and yet here we are doing the same thing but in the opposite direction.

 

The best person for the job should be the one that is hired- regardless of the colour of their skin, sexual preference, gender, age, etc.

 

I feel like I am profiling when I am interviewing, and that makes me feel dirty. My boss took me out for lunch today and I was able to vent about it. She confided that she fought to get me hired and it was with the same HR rep that we are now currently dealing with, so she feels that she used up her one favour for the time being.

 

Sure- the young girl will find another job- but it's a shame she is going to miss out on this opportunity when she's done everything right and has all the required qualifications. I'm seriously upset by it.

 

Anyway, I have a gay Asian guy as my number 1 now:cool:. I liked him, he's not as qualified as the other girl my boss and I liked- but he is pretty cool.

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skydiveaddict
...And I say sometimes because of course the premise is altruistic, but it sucks that I am going to miss out on a great employee.

 

My boss and I interviewed 10 prospective assistants that I will have to work closely with. One stood out- all her qualifications were outstanding, she has the experience I am looking for, a perfect fit in terms of our personalities... BUT, I can't hire her!

 

HR informed me today, when I submitted her as my number one candidate, that in order to ensure we remain ethnically diverse, that I need to look for an assistant that better fits that profile. They didn't tell me I had to- but they encouraged me to submit 2 more possible candidates that fit into that mold. I talked to my boss after and she claimed that although she liked my choice as well, we should interview a little further to accomodate company policy.

 

I am truly pissed. The girl I chose was perfect for the job- but apparantly she is too white! They aren't saying that outright, but it is heavily implied.

 

It saddens me that the people with the best qualifications can and are looked over in order to accomodate a quota. I was looking forward to working with this girl because she was perfectly qualified.

 

Anyone else have experience with this?

I am new to corporate life, and sometimes the politics upset me.

I don't care about someone's ethnicity- I just want the best possible person for the job.

 

 

I personally DETEST EOE. It degrades people. I would hate to be hired because i'm a"single white male" and not on my qualifications. I would think that would be insult to one's humanity and self worth and it puts enormous pressure on the one doing the hiring. Fortunately I work in a field where they have trouble finding ANYONE to do the job. So that doesn't seem to be a problem for me.

It's a fun job and pays well, all though there is some traveling involved.

 

Never been in the "corporate" world don't think I could handle all the bs. good look to ya d-lish

Edited by skydiveaddict
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I personally DETEST EOE. It degrades people. I would hate to be hired because i'm a"single white male" and not on my qualifications. I would think that would be insult to one's humanity and self worth and it puts enormous pressure on the one doing the hiring. Fortunately I work in a field where they have trouble finding ANYONE to do the job. So that doesn't seem to be a problem for me.

It's a fun job and pays well, all though there is some traveling involved.

 

Never been in the "corporate" world don't think I could handle all the bs. good look to ya d-lish

 

Thanks Sky- I actually got word today that they are hiring my number 3 choice. I guess we already have enough gay guys. She's East Indian (I believe). She is coming in tomorrow for orientation, etc.

 

I liked her enough- but she was really shy, and you can't be shy in my business.

 

I feel very bad, I actually called my number 1 choice when I found out just to let her know we have hired someone. I didn't want her waiting by the phone- and I wanted her to be free to send out more resumes.:o

 

It sucks that the girl that hit the ball out of the park in the interview can't have a chance because she's "too pale".

 

Now I am wondering if I even have an opportunity for advancement with this company because of my skin colour. My boss is pregnant- and she will be going on mat leave in 5 months. She told me at lunch yesterday that she wants to recommend me for an interim replacement - I now wonder if that would pose an issue.

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My boss and I interviewed 10 prospective assistants that I will have to work closely with. One stood out- all her qualifications were outstanding, she has the experience I am looking for, a perfect fit in terms of our personalities... BUT, I can't hire her!

 

I'd like to know what company you work for, so I can never do business with them. Why do business with a company that hires under-qualified people? Horrible. I'm sorry for your situation D-Lish :o

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