Should you always be available

[redfathom]

So I asked my boss, what staying later means today. He said that it's not a time issues, he wants me to stay later to get more work done. Personally I get things done pretty good in my eight hours. If they need me to stay longer then they are giving me too much work. My other boss in a meeting said if you leave after your 8 hour's you're not a superstar.

 

I asked my boss again, what does he consider staying later and he said, "Well legally I can't ask this of people, but I think all salary people should work 10 hours a day."

 

HA!

[Lookingforward]

One of the reasons I love the job where I am now - I'm office but get to work the factory hours - 7am to 3.30pm - early starts suck sometimes but it's great to leave at that time in summer.

 

I do stay late on occasion, especially end of month, quarter, year etc but I also get compensated for that in one way or another....

[redfathom]

Yes, my boss mentioned to me how we get compensated:

 

1. our office is near the beach - great, except they want you to work so many hours, you can't enjoy it.

 

2. We are a start up company and are workin on exciting projects. Except most staff are Software Engineers and I am an Admin, nothing exciting for me.

 

Also, we don't get a paid for out lunch, which is fine. So do they expect us to stay here 11 hours a day.

[Trialbyfire]

Part of the way to prove yourself to management as upwardly mobile, is to prove your dedication to them through extra hours and productivity within those hours. It's a win/win situation solely for the employer.

[redfathom]

I guess for me, I have always been quick to finish my work and I value my family life more. My husband works graveyard so I can only see him until 7:30pm, so I like to get home sooner then later. Plus in my job there is no where to go in this company and it's not a career company or job for me. I am not really happy here, so putting in more time has no rewards for me. I know that makes me sound like a lousy employee, but I do work hard and never take advanatage of any of my employers.

 

I just left a job where I was salary, on call 24 hours and worked 50-55 hours a week. When I interviewed here I told them I did not want to work over 40 hours.

[curiousnycgirl]

So I asked my boss, what staying later means today. He said that it's not a time issues, he wants me to stay later to get more work done. Personally I get things done pretty good in my eight hours. If they need me to stay longer then they are giving me too much work. My other boss in a meeting said if you leave after your 8 hour's you're not a superstar.

 

I asked my boss again, what does he consider staying later and he said, "Well legally I can't ask this of people, but I think all salary people should work 10 hours a day."

 

HA!

 

The bolded part is the key here. Your next question should be to ask if there were things he felt you were inappropriately leaving undone. If the answer is no - then he's going to feel foolish isn't he? If the answer is yes, then you'll need to figure out how to get it all done.

 

As far as being in the office early - but no one knows it - you have email don't you? I'd find it hard to believe that part of your job does not involve reading and responding, or initiating emails. Those are time stamped! If you do email first thing everyday - everyone will know when your butt was in your seat. Frankly half an hour early is not earth shattering to most managers.

 

Regarding the unpaid lunch, um...sorry I don't buy that. You are either paid for a 40 hour work week, which means your hours should be 8-5 (less 1 hour for lunch) or a 35 hour work week which means 9-5 (less lunch).

 

Bottom line is it all depends on what you want out of your job. It sounds to me like you want to put in your time and get paid fairly vs. being considered for promotion etc. In a start up company usually everyone is expected to put in 110% and down the road they generally reap the rewards of the hard work early on.

 

You might be best served finding a job in a more established company - where the roles are more clearly defined and understood by all.

[redfathom]

Curious, I agree. I need to find a job where I know what they expect and I am willing to meet those expecations. To tell me a year and a half into the job that they wants me to work more hours, well I don't like that and I don't like not knowing there every changing expectations of me. The thing is they never tell people they are expected to work more then 40 hours. All SWE have to bill 37 hours direct. Any meeting's they have can not be billed direct which means if they have five hours of meetings a week, which is not hard to do around here, then they are working 42 hours. Also, we have been short staffed on SWE, my boss's reply: "Well, we will just ask everyone to work an extra hour a day to make up the time." This does not directly effect me, but I don't like the unfairness of it.

 

For the hour's paid lunch, my last two jobs over the past five years, I got paid an hours lunch at both. I worked 8am to 4pm with an hours lunch break, hard to believe but it was awesome!!

[Art_Critic]

Would you be happier if your boss put you on an hourly rate instead of salary ?

You would be surprised that you wouldn't make as high of a pay at the end of the month.

 

Remember that an employer will pay a salary for 2 reasons.. one reason it that will most likely work longer hours because the deadlines and amount of work still remain the same..

 

the other reason is for the benefit of the employee.. it makes sure they can count on a certain pay each month..

 

If there wasn't a benefit in paying an employee a salary them nobody would do it..

You are just trying to make your boss hold to the 40 hour work week that he pays you for in your mind and he is trying to get you to work the hours he feels he pays you for in his mind..

 

One thing is for sure.. doing what you are doing is no way to make a good impression on management.. don't expect great raises and to move up the ladder..

the higher up the ladder you go the more hard work and dedication past 40 hours a week is expected.

 

Oh.. and I do agree that your boss is being hard on you.. but it seems that both have had a run in or two before so he is getting to the point of playing hardball .

You might be happier in another company..

 

When things progress to the point they seem to have in your job then nobody wins.. feelings get hurt and resentment starts to build.. the only fix is to move on to something better suited for you.

[curiousnycgirl]

One thing is for sure.. doing what you are doing is no way to make a good impression on management.. don't expect great raises and to move up the ladder..

the higher up the ladder you go the more hard work and dedication past 40 hours a week is expected.

 

AC's point above is very valid. Keep in mind that in limiting your hours/dedication to the company, you are limiting your compensation growth (i've never cared about the ladder - so I didn't bother mentioning that - call me clown (no insult intended AC) if you want - just pay me!) . If you are ok at your current income level, with only marginal increases each year - then you need to move.

 

A more established company will most assuredly provide fewer opportunities to cross the AA to "profesional" line, while a smaller more relaxed environment offers a wealth of opportunity for growth to all.

 

Your choice.

[redfathom]

AC does make a very valid point, except that I am not at the point in my life where this is a career job. I would rather have time outside of work to do things, like go to school, see my husband, etc. People who stay here and work in other administrative rolls (of which there are few) work 45-50 hours a week salary. I know what staying here would mean for me, time wise. This job is not worth sacraficing my personal time for.

[redfathom]

I should add, that the higher up the ladder of course you are expected to work more hours, but you are better compensated. I know I do a good job, because we get reviewed quarterly and I get good reviews. I don't mind giving them more, I just don't like when it's expected with nothing in return.

[brainless twit]

I'll go against the grain here and say that your job sucks, redfathom.

 

I refuse to work more than 40 hours per week. I'm getting paid for 40, I work 40, that's it. If I stay late one day, you better believe I'm coming late or leaving early another day to make up for it. In my last job I was paid hourly, and my annual income is the same now as it was then. Why should I take more time away from my family when I already bust ass doing what I do now? In job interviews, I have always let the interviewer know that I'm willing to do what it takes to get my work done, but I don't work more than 40 hours unless I'm compensated, either financially or with time off. If they don't want to hire me, that's fine; I'll find an employer who will.

 

IMO you have to set boundaries. I would ask your boss what he expects you to accomplish in one workday - if you're doing that much, he shouldn't complain. If you aren't getting things done in 8 hours like you need to, you might need to look at your time management and see why you aren't doing what your boss expects. Either way, I think it's unreasonable to expect someone to spend 55+ hours a week at work. If you spend 40 hours sleeping in those five days and 55 hours at work, that's 95 hours gone out of 120. That is ridiculous no matter what kind of job you have.

[lovestruck818]

If you can't handle overtime, don't work...b/c honestly when you work it's expected that you work overtime...and if you refuse, they can easily find someone else who will.

[MaxManwell]

AC's point above is very valid. Keep in mind that in limiting your hours/dedication to the company, you are limiting your compensation growth (i've never cared about the ladder - so I didn't bother mentioning that - call me clown (no insult intended AC) if you want - just pay me!) . If you are ok at your current income level, with only marginal increases each year - then you need to move.

 

A more established company will most assuredly provide fewer opportunities to cross the AA to "profesional" line, while a smaller more relaxed environment offers a wealth of opportunity for growth to all.

 

Your choice.

 

Oh look a carrot on a stick.

 

Next week we take a visit to a homeless shelter, we'll show you where you're going to end up if we fire you.

[Star Gazer]

As far as I'm concerned, once you're a salaried employee, there is no such thing as "staying late." You stay as long as it takes to get the work done, to attend to business, meetings, etc. In other words, as long as the boss expects you to, period.

[MaxManwell]

As far as I'm concerned, once you're a salaried employee, there is no such thing as "staying late." You stay as long as it takes to get the work done, to attend to business, meetings, etc. In other words, as long as the boss expects you to, period.

 

Bull****, that means you could put kids on the line at McDonalds on a salary and expect them to work 50 hours a week for 30 hours pay.

 

Common sense dictates this one in my opinion. If it is assumed you're paid to do a project in a professional sense and you're compensated as an executive then you're not payable for overtime worked. If you're paid as an employee it is different.

 

Executives don't get paid overtime. Be reasonable about it because you can take it to court and people around America are winning.

 

If my neighbour tells me to paint his fence and will pay me $50 for painting his fence. I am being paid to paint the fence, if it takes 10 or 20 hours does not matter its what we agreed too.

 

If my neighbour pays me $10 per hour to be his maintenance man for 5 hours a day, and then tells me to paint his fence. I am not required to work 10 hours to get the fence painted, I am only required to paint the fence for 5 hours.

 

In any case my neighbour would probably just fire me if I didn't paint all his fence in the second case. So it is your call but to justify what is happening is not correct.

 

Try and find a job with the government or working in the education field.

[Star Gazer]

Bull****, that means you could put kids on the line at McDonalds on a salary and expect them to work 50 hours a week for 30 hours pay.

 

Actually, no, you couldn't. There are very clear guidelines set forth in each state's labor code which dictate when you can and cannot be an exempt (salaried) employee. Manual labor - such as McDonald's line cook/cashier employees - cannot be salaried. Those positions which require independent judgment, creativity, specialized skill, managing others, and/or discretion in decision making are salaried. If you're a salaried employee, you do what it takes to get the job done.

 

If my neighbour tells me to paint his fence and will pay me $50 for painting his fence. I am being paid to paint the fence, if it takes 10 or 20 hours does not matter its what we agreed too.

 

If my neighbour pays me $10 per hour to be his maintenance man for 5 hours a day, and then tells me to paint his fence. I am not required to work 10 hours to get the fence painted, I am only required to paint the fence for 5 hours.

 

In any case my neighbour would probably just fire me if I didn't paint all his fence in the second case. So it is your call but to justify what is happening is not correct.

 

Your example belies the fact that painting a fence is an hourly job. Now, if he said, "I need to have the most beautiful backyard designed by August 1, 2008, and it's gotta have this, that, and the other thing," and your position was a landscape architect (a salaried position), you bet your a** you'd be working as long as it took to get that project done.

 

If you do your job, and do your job well, you will be rewarded accordingly - through promotions, raises, bonuses, etc.

[monkey00]

I think the only real jobs out there that are strict 9-5 are in the corporate world. I interned one summer at corporate company and literally the whole building shut down shortly after 5.

 

Anyway your reviewers make a good point. Though I have to ask are you in the corporate or creative workplace?

 

I don't work in a corporate environment and everyone here is salary based, though just about everyone in the company is expected to either come in earlier and/or stay late to finish their work, and if they go far and beyond to work harder at night - my boss notices because he's at the office round the clock. But I mean I work in a small company, so things are obviously more noticeable by the head.

 

At my company we get annual reviews, and you can throw in the fact that you stay late to get the job done for a salary bump - which is why everyone is ok with it.

[MaxManwell]

I was under the impression the lines for what makes an administrative worker (and many other relatively low paid people ) exempt are blurred when put into practice and that it is the exempt status not being paid a salary that makes a person unpayable for overtime.

So if the McDonalds worker accepted a salary he or she could sue for unpaid overtime, as the salary status wasn't legal in the first place ?

 

Isn't it a little weird that she is taking an "unpaid hour" for lunch if she is not getting paid by the hour. The point I was trying to make is that she should look for another job as not accept the current situation as acceptable, as you had suggested.

[Ariadne]

I guess for me, I have always been quick to finish my work and I value my family life more. My husband works graveyard so I can only see him until 7:30pm, so I like to get home sooner then later.

 

I completely agree with you.

 

In fact, I think that the 40 hr week is a total abuse.

 

I'd just tell your boss, sorry, no can do.

 

That's it, I wouldn't even give him explanations.

 

If he wants to fire me go ahead, I'd be glad to be out of that crap job.

 

Screw the boss and his stupid work. Kis my as etc etc.

[Ariadne]

Oh yeah,

 

And I'm salaried too, and whenever the Japanese project guy would complain that I do more work.

 

Just for the heck I'd get in the car and leave at 3pm lol.

[Citizen Erased]

This is the complete opposite to where I work. If my supervisor, or even my boss, see me here even say 10 minutes after 5 they are pushing me out the door. It was the same with the last 2 admin jobs I have had. Granted they were temp jobs, but still.

 

Guess it is just different over here. I have gathered that in the US employers expect overtime (unpaid of course). But if you have completed you work in the standard 8 hours, I don't see why they would expect you to stay behind and twiddle your thumbs for an hour.

[Lookingforward]

This is the complete opposite to where I work. If my supervisor, or even my boss, see me here even say 10 minutes after 5 they are pushing me out the door. It was the same with the last 2 admin jobs I have had. Granted they were temp jobs, but still.

 

Guess it is just different over here. I have gathered that in the US employers expect overtime (unpaid of course). But if you have completed you work in the standard 8 hours, I don't see why they would expect you to stay behind and twiddle your thumbs for an hour.

 

In oz temps and casuals get paid more than permanents because of pro rata vacation, sick pay etc - here temps get less as a rule (then there's the iffy "benefits" thing to cope with as well if you're under 40 hours or temp)

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, my boss mentioned to me how we get compensated:

 

1. our office is near the beach - great, except they want you to work so many hours, you can't enjoy it.

 

2. We are a start up company and are workin on exciting projects. Except most staff are Software Engineers and I am an Admin, nothing exciting for me.

 

Also, we don't get a paid for out lunch, which is fine. So do they expect us to stay here 11 hours a day.

Key words redfathom. All start ups require extra hours from staff due to the lack of cash flow, since they're using seed money to run. The expectation is that the more hours you put in, the more you will help the company get onto its feet. Also, they should have created a proper incentive/compensatory package for you, in that you have either options to acquire/will acquire shares at set vesting periods or incentive bonuses of some form.

[Art_Critic]

AC does make a very valid point, except that I am not at the point in my life where this is a career job. I would rather have time outside of work to do things, like go to school, see my husband, etc. People who stay here and work in other administrative rolls (of which there are few) work 45-50 hours a week salary. I know what staying here would mean for me, time wise. This job is not worth sacraficing my personal time for.

 

At least you know where you are in life..

Nothing wrong with not wanting to jump on the workaholic train or even the total career train..

 

We all have prioritized what we feel is the important stuff in our life.. there are only so many hours in day and with that limitation we have to but what is most important at the top..

 

By the sounds of it you must be doing a good job and they must think you do as you keep your job..

You have an open dialog with your boss by asking him questions about what he means when he says he wants you to work more hours..

Are you getting anything worked out from this ?

 

Hopefully the wrinkles will work out for you..

Keeping a good open dialog going with your boss is a good thing and can only lead to a better workplace for all...