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Thomas Jefferson and the Bible


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BetheButterfly

The following quote is from an interesting article about what Thomas Jefferson did to the Bible. This Founding Father of America did much to set the tone of the spiritual condition of the USA. I boldened some in the article, and then I answered the questions asked in the article:

 

But sixteen years later, he created another. In 1820, retired from politics and living at Monticello, Jefferson sat down again, at the age of seventy-seven, to edit the Bible. He purchased six Bibles—two in English, two in French, and two containing both Latin and Greek—and cut them up, creating a second edited version of the New Testament, in four languages.

 

In this book, he kept the words of Jesus and some of his deeds, but left out the miracles and any suggestion that Jesus is God. The virgin birth is gone. So is Jesus walking on water, multiplying the loaves and fishes, and raising Lazarus from the dead. Jefferson’s version ends with Jesus’ burial on Good Friday. There is no resurrection, no Easter Sunday.

 

Jefferson called this version “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth.”

That book has survived. It’s smaller than you might expect—roughly five by eight inches—with a faded red leather cover. Conservators at the Smithsonian’s Museum of American History in Washington, DC, painstakingly repaired rips and restored the book. It’s currently on display at the museum, along with two of the Bibles that Jefferson cut up to create it.

 

The exhibition is sure to generate questions: Why did one of America’s beloved Founding Fathers cut up Bibles? Was it an act of piety or of blasphemy? Was Jefferson a Christian or a heretic? And what does this book, commonly known as the “Jefferson Bible,” tell us about America’s religious heritage?

 

The Bible According to Thomas Jefferson - TheHumanist.com

 

First question:

 

Why did one of America’s beloved Founding Fathers cut up Bibles?

Because Thomas Jefferson obviously did not believe everything in the Bible, which is his right. While I respect his rights to his beliefs, I do believe what he doesn't.

 

Was it an act of piety or of blasphemy?

In my opinion, it's blasphemy. However, I don't believe in humans punishing blasphemy. I believe in the freedom for people to commit blasphemy if they so desire. Why? Jesus Christ did not command his followers to punish blasphemy, but rather to invite them to follow Him.

 

God is more than capable of punishing people for blasphemy, and I do believe that God will punish Thomas Jefferson for his blasphemy on Judgement Day.

Was Jefferson a Christian or a heretic?

A true Christian believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

And what does this book, commonly known as the “Jefferson Bible,” tell us about America’s religious heritage?

 

America is not a Christian nation. That America is a "Christian nation" is a lie that some American Christians ignorantly or on purpose tell in order to try to force their Christian beliefs on other people. :(

 

While I'm a Christian, I don't believe in forcing other people to believe the same as I do. While I explain what I believe, I'm fine with other people believing differently. However, I don't appreciate lies.

 

A Christian nation would obey Jesus Christ, and there's no such thing as a true Christian nation because many Christian leaders do not obey Jesus Christ.

 

Even European countries were not truly Christian nations when they were controlled by Catholics or Protestants, because Christianity is not supposed to be a political system. Christians are supposed to obey Christ, regardless of what political leaders say or even what religious leaders say.

 

Jesus Christ is the King of Christians, and a true Christian nation cannot happen until He returns. He didn't command his followers to take over nations, but rather to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's (Matthew 22:21)

 

America is a nation with freedom of religion, and American people can carve up Bibles like Thomas Jefferson did if they want to do that. However, American people can also believe the Bible is true, including the miracles Jesus did and His resurrection from the dead.

 

What do you think about what Thomas Jefferson did to the Bible and why?

How would you answer the questions the article asks? Thanks.

Edited by BetheButterfly
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I'm not sure why Jefferson did what he did but it's good to know that he was giving it some thought at the end of his life.

 

I think finding God is a journey and a personal one at that. Trying to understand someone else's journey seems like an exercise in futility.

 

Call me selfish but I'd rather work on my own.

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BetheButterfly
I'm not sure why Jefferson did what he did but it's good to know that he was giving it some thought at the end of his life.

 

Could you please provide evidence of that? Thanks.

 

I think finding God is a journey and a personal one at that.
True.

Trying to understand someone else's journey seems like an exercise in futility.

I disagree, because I personally learn from other people's journeys. One of the main people who God has used to help me grow in my own personal journey with God is Corrie ten Boom. Out of curiosity, have you ever heard of her?

Call me selfish but I'd rather work on my own.

Not selfish at all, though knowing God isn't work. Knowing God is relationship and natural, like knowing one's parents but even more deep and profound and loving. :love: Knowing God is growing in one's relationship with Him, like how a child grows in his or her relationship with his or her loving parents. That's why God is our Father in Heaven.
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Could you please provide evidence of that? Thanks.

 

Surely. I found the evidence of that in your original post that stated that at age 77 Jefferson was cutting up bibles.

 

He died six years later.

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BetheButterfly
Surely. I found the evidence of that in your original post that stated that at age 77 Jefferson was cutting up bibles.

 

He died six years later.

 

Did he repent 6 years later, and is there evidence of his repentance? Did he accept Jesus' resurrection from the dead before he died? I sure hope so!!!

 

Again, as Paul stated in the Bible:

 

"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.

 

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." - 1 Corinthians 15:14-10 (NIV)

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Meh...sounds like a whole lot of passing of judgment to me.

 

We aren't God so we don't know what you ask. We don't know what was in Jefferson''s heart.

 

We do know that Jefferson had been giving it some thought six years prior to his death though and I see that as a good thing.

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BetheButterfly
Meh...sounds like a whole lot of passing of judgment to me.

 

Do you believe Jesus wants us to believe everybody and anybody who alters the Bible and brings a different gospel?

 

Do you believe we are not supposed to be on the lookout for false prophets who led people astray? Thomas Jefferson changed Scripture. That's something false prophets do, as well as say that God said something He didn't truly say, or that God didn't say what He truly said.

 

Out of curiosity, do you believe God is the Judge and that it's important to obey the Judge? Or, do you think judgement is hogwash and God doesn't truly judge anybody? Do you think people can just do whatever they want and God doesn't care?

 

 

We aren't God so we don't know what you ask. We don't know what was in Jefferson''s heart.
There are people who repent before dying, and tell their loved ones. Of course we don't know what's in Jefferson's heart, but if there's evidence that he accepted Jesus' resurrection from the dead, that would be good to know.

 

We do know that Jefferson had been giving it some thought six years prior to his death though and I see that as a good thing.
Do you think it's a good thing that Thomas Jefferson cut out the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, and Jesus' resurrection from the Bible?

 

Personally, I'm fine with his freedom to not believe what I do, but I don't look up to him as a good spiritual or political leader because of his beliefs and actions that go contrary to my own.

 

It's important to know the truth about what he believed about the Bible. Unless he repented, the truth is that Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in the virgin birth, Jesus' miracles, and the resurrection of Jesus.

Edited by BetheButterfly
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GorillaTheater
Do you believe Jesus wants us to believe everybody and anybody who alters the Bible and brings a different gospel?

 

Do you believe we are not supposed to be on the lookout for false prophets who led people astray? Thomas Jefferson changed Scripture. That's something false prophets do, as well as say that God said something He didn't truly say, or that God didn't say what He truly said.

 

 

The difference between Jefferson and the false prophets that you speak of was that Jefferson didn't make his edited version of the Bible public. I think that he came up with his version as an intellectual exercise, trying to make sense of things as best he could.

 

 

I understand the temptation. Doctrines such as hell and blood sacrifice for propitiation of sin are impossible for me to wrap my mind around.

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BetheButterfly
The difference between Jefferson and the false prophets that you speak of was that Jefferson didn't make his edited version of the Bible public.

 

There's sort of a debate about that. It's possible he made it as a missionary tool to evangelize "Indians" which is interesting.

 

"Priestley died a week later, so Jefferson did the job himself, spending a couple nights at the White House, cutting and pasting. He titled it “The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth” and identified it as “an abridgment of the New Testament for the use of the Indians.

 

That last phrase has since kicked up a controversy. Some Christian historians note that Jefferson had earlier signed a law appropriating federal money to subsidize missionary work among the Native Americans, and they suggest that perhaps Jefferson’s first cut-and-paste Bible was designed to serve as a sort of Reader’s Digest Bible condensed for American Indians.

 

Other historians disagree, noting that Jefferson never attempted to use his Bible to educate Indians, never mentioned that idea in his letters, and later wrote to John Adams, saying that he created the book “for my own use.”

 

Who’s right? Nobody really knows.

 

I think that he came up with his version as an intellectual exercise, trying to make sense of things as best he could.

He did keep it in his family.(not his alleged children with a slave he owned though).

 

 

 

After Jefferson died in 1826, the first of his Bibles disappeared, but the second remained in his family.

 

His version of the Bible may have greatly contributed to the rise of unitarianism in the USA:

 

 

 

House members quickly gave their copies of the book to constituents, but the Senate saved enough of them to provide a volume to each incoming freshman senator for the next fifty years. In 1957 Frank Church, a newly elected senator from Idaho, took the oath of office and was presented with a copy of Jefferson’s Bible. Two years later, he gave it to his son, Forrest Church, who eventually became a prominent Unitarian Universalist minister and the editor of an edition of the Jefferson Bible.

 

http://thehumanist.com/magazine/march-april-2012/features/the-bible-according-to-thomas-jefferson

 

I understand the temptation. Doctrines such as hell and blood sacrifice for propitiation of sin are impossible for me to wrap my mind around.
Understood. However, altering the Bible is not a good idea, in my opinion. While Thomas Jefferson had the right to do so, I do believe he negatively impacted the USA with both his altering of the Bible and his believing that whites to be superior to black people. :(
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planning4later

The majority of founding fathers were Freemasons. This is factually verifiable. They did not even try to hide it, themselves. I grew up believing they were Christian. To be honest it kind of upset me when I found out they weren't. But my MO in life is to follow the truth wherever it leads. Sometimes it's not pretty. But it's ALWAYS good in the end.

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GorillaTheater
The majority of founding fathers were Freemasons. This is factually verifiable. They did not even try to hide it, themselves. I grew up believing they were Christian. To be honest it kind of upset me when I found out they weren't. But my MO in life is to follow the truth wherever it leads. Sometimes it's not pretty. But it's ALWAYS good in the end.

 

 

I have a brother-in-law who's both a Mason and a Christian. Are you saying that he could be one or the other but not both? Pray tell why.

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planning4later
I have a brother-in-law who's both a Mason and a Christian. Are you saying that he could be one or the other but not both? Pray tell why.

 

Do your homework on Masonry. Their God is Lucifer. Some of the lower level Masons might not even know this because the only requirement (initially) is to profess believe in "a" God. But just like any cult, it sounds great from the outside but once you're trapped, the details come out.

 

So regarding your BIL. No offense but you can't be a true disciple of Christ and a Mason. You cannot serve two masters. He might be a "Christian" in the sense that he attends a church and has friends who profess faith. But that's not the same as being a disciple of Christ in spirit and truth.

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BetheButterfly
The majority of founding fathers were Freemasons. This is factually verifiable.

 

I have a relative who was a Mason or Freemason and he didn't try to hide it. He passed away years ago. (I don't know what the difference is between Mason or Freemason... guess I could look it up.) Anyways, I have no idea if the founding fathers are Freemasons and even what that means.

 

They did not even try to hide it, themselves. I grew up believing they were Christian.
Me too. I grew up believing that all the Founding Fathers were "perfect" Christians who made the USA a "perfect" Christian country. Imagine my shock when I found out especially what Thomas Jefferson did to the Bible. :( What makes me the saddest is how Christians treated the Natives (killing them, stealing from them, breaking treaties, force converting them, driving them from the land of their forefathers, and so on), and how Christians cruelly enslaved people, which is NOT what they would have appreciated being done to them! :(

 

To be honest it kind of upset me when I found out they weren't.
Me too. Not fun believing a lie. It's like believing Santa Claus is real till you learn he isn't. (My parents always taught me that Santa Claus wasn't real, but I argued with them when I was 5 cause I clearly saw Santa Claus at the mall, and thus he was real lol. It helped after my Mom explained to me the history of "Saint" Nick, which God only knows how much is real and how much isn't. )

 

But my MO in life is to follow the truth wherever it leads. Sometimes it's not pretty. But it's ALWAYS good in the end.
100% agreed.
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BetheButterfly
I have a brother-in-law who's both a Mason and a Christian. Are you saying that he could be one or the other but not both? Pray tell why.

 

I don't know about that. My relative was a Christian and a Mason. He identified as both. I don't know anything about Masons though, except my relative was one and there was a huge Mason building near where I lived.

 

I would like to do some research on them, to see what they even believe. I never cared before because why would I?

 

I never lived in Ohio, but I found this as to what freemasonry is, and they accept people of all religions:

Freemasonry is the oldest, largest and most widely recognized fraternal organization in the world. Founded in London, England in 1717, its current worldwide membership totals 3.6 million members, 1.6 million of which are in North America. With 120,000 Masons and 530 local Lodges, Ohio has one of the largest Masonic memberships of any state in the country.

 

As a fraternal organization, Freemasonry unites men of good character who, though of different religious, ethnic, or social backgrounds, share a belief in the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of mankind.

 

The traditions of Freemasonry are founded upon the building of King Solomon's Temple, and its fraternal ceremonies use the working tools of the stonemasons to symbolize moral lessons and truths. For example, Masons are reminded at Lodge to "meet upon the level of equality, act by the plumb of uprightness, and part upon the square of virtue."

 

Like most organizations, one will get out of Freemasonry what he is able to put into it. However, membership in Freemasonry is not meant in any way to interfere with an individual's commitment to his faith, family, or occupation. Freemasonry is not and never can be a replacement for these important institutions, but rather it is a positive environment that reminds every Mason of his duty to God, his community, his family and himself.

 

http://www.freemason.com/how-to-join/what-is-freemasonry

 

From what it says there, one can be a freemason/mason and be of any religion.

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Do you believe Jesus wants us to believe everybody and anybody who alters the Bible and brings a different gospel?

 

So what did Roman Emperor Constantine at the council of Nicaea do 325 years after Christ was put to death?

 

What happened to all the bits they deemed heresy? How do we know it was heresy? Just because some Roman emperor wanted a religion to unify his empire and encourage the people to bend over and pay their taxes he compiled the New Testament.... And created the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Church.

 

A book is a book, all books are valuable, but they are reference, not God.

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GorillaTheater
So there is a God? Tell us about him.

 

 

Besides the fact that He rolls His eyes at folks who think Masons are a bunch of Satanists?

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planning4later
Besides the fact that He rolls His eyes at folks who think Masons are a bunch of Satanists?

 

Define Satanist.

 

I'm sorry to go all Socrates on you, but it's necessary here.

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GorillaTheater
Define Satanist.

 

I'm sorry to go all Socrates on you, but it's necessary here.

 

 

Is it? Bummer, because it's time for me to get home.

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planning4later
Is it? Bummer, because it's time for me to get home.

 

That's too bad. Because if you understood what Satanist means, you'd realize it's entirely possible for an apparent Christian to be one (key word apparent). It doesn't mean a person who grows horns and goes on murder sprees.

 

For example, the pastor Joel Osteen, by characteristic of his theology, is a Satanist. His entire theological framework came directly from Luciferians. Hard to believe? Not if you're educated on this topic. Remember, Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It's the best way to deceive. Go around calling yourself a Christian so people trust you, but in your sermons completely turn the Scriptures upside down and slip in lies. The Bible said this would happen. It must happen.

 

God wants to separate the wheat from the tares; the authentic from the frauds. If you don't rely exclusively on the guidance of the Holy Spirit (in agreement with Scripture), you WILL fall victim. God wants it this way.

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I believe you can by the Jefferson Bible on Amazon.

 

As to what his actions tell us about America's religious heritage, I think that heritage is widely varied. Christians have many different beliefs that fall under the umbrella of Christianity. There is a book by Jon Mecham called "American Gospel" that I keep meaning to check out from the library.

 

Anyway, I think it's apparent that an effort was made to keep religion out of our nation when it was founded, and I think that is a good thing. Over the course of history, we have seen that haveing a state religion is not usually positive because power so often corrupts. Once you have a state religion, the person in power gets to interpret that religion how he/she sees fit, which is honestly scary to me. I'd rather just be able to practice my religion in my own free time. I'm very glad there the US does not have a state sponsored religion.

 

The idea that we were founded as a Christian nation is fanciful. Some of our forefathers were Christians, but that does not mean that any of them felt we should have a state sponsored religion. I don't feel that politics is the best vehicle to practice Christianity. Just my two cents.

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So what did Roman Emperor Constantine at the council of Nicaea do 325 years after Christ was put to death?

 

What happened to all the bits they deemed heresy? How do we know it was heresy? Just because some Roman emperor wanted a religion to unify his empire and encourage the people to bend over and pay their taxes he compiled the New Testament.... And created the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Church.

 

A book is a book, all books are valuable, but they are reference, not God.

 

Its a bit of an urban Christian myth that the Council of Nicea or Constantine canonized the bible. This is a myth that was popularized by the Da Vinci code. The Nicean council discussed the deity of Christ, due to a heresy that was spreading at the time. The result of the council was the Nicean creed.

 

Canonization was more gradual and there was never a "vote" of what books to include/not include. There were regional councils that made declarations about the canon, but they affirmed books, they never created or authorized the canon.

 

Here is a quote by Bart Ehrman, a liberal textual critic of the NT:

 

The canon of the New Testament was ratified by widespread consensus rather than by official proclamation.

 

The council of Nicaea was mainly established to debate the idea that Jesus was a created being, i.e. The Son was a product of the Father. Arianism was a heresy that arose in the fourth century and stated Christ was a created being, a product of the Father (in the third century the heresy of the day was Modalism, the idea that the Father, Son, and Spirit are all divine, but not three distinct persons...there is one God that plays three different roles). The Council is famous for carefully laying the foundation for the doctrine of the trinity. Of the council there were the Athanasians (thought Christ and God were of the same substance), the Arians (Christ was created by God; about 6 bishops), 80 or so held a semi-Arian view (Christ and God were of a similar substance, but not the same), and about 200 didn't have an established opinion. The Athanasians won the debate and the Nicene Creed was confirmed by the council. There were political ramifications for this council as well (for Constantine). This wasn't the end of the dispute. It went on until the Council of Alexandria (approx. 360 AD; mainly due to the way the Nicene Creed was translated the word "substance" in Greek). However, the councils conclusions were refined over time, even until modern times with the discovery of the Granville-Sharp construction.

 

The council of Nicaea was not the first council held or the last. Here is a list of early councils.

 

The first council, the Council at Jerusalem, was led by the apostles and elders to determine whether the gentiles (non-Jews) had to obey the Law of Moses in addition to affirming faith in Christ. Their answer was "no."

 

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and elders met to consider this question. Then the apostles and elders...they sent the following letter:

 

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

 

Greetings. We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

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So there is a God? Tell us about him.

 

What do you want to know?

 

And I will allow the gender bias by convention.

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