Jump to content

Purpose of the Holy Spirit?


Recommended Posts

I had a huge revelation today while reading the Gospel of John. I have for a long time been contemplating how so many pastors and churches can claim to be teaching God's truth without ever mentioning sin or repentance. Those of you veterans on this forum have probably heard me talk about this.

 

I came across a verse which outright states what the purpose of the Holy Spirit is:

 

"And when he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment..." (John 16:8 ESV)

 

This ends the debate for me. If any pastor does not care to ever address sin, which Scripture proves is the PRIMARY purpose of the Holy Spirit, then that pastor does not have the Holy Spirit but rather preaches with the wisdom of man. The true teaching of the Holy Spirit leads people to repentance and knowledge of all truth. The wisdom of man, while appealing, does not.

 

Is your pastor teaching about sin and repentance? Jesus did. John the Baptist did. The Holy Spirit comes FOR THIS REASON. My hope is that all of you who are Christian would choose wisely whom you open your ears to. Test all spirits. We know the signs of the Holy Spirit according to John 16:8. We may not like to hear this, but we must conform to the truth and not our feelings.

 

May the grace of Jesus Christ be with you.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
I had a huge revelation today while reading the Gospel of John. I have for a long time been contemplating how so many pastors and churches can claim to be teaching God's truth without ever mentioning sin or repentance. Those of you veterans on this forum have probably heard me talk about this.

 

I came across a verse which outright states what the purpose of the Holy Spirit is:

 

"And when he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment..." (John 16:8 ESV)

 

This ends the debate for me. If any pastor does not care to ever address sin, which Scripture proves is the PRIMARY purpose of the Holy Spirit, then that pastor does not have the Holy Spirit but rather preaches with the wisdom of man. The true teaching of the Holy Spirit leads people to repentance and knowledge of all truth. The wisdom of man, while appealing, does not.

 

Is your pastor teaching about sin and repentance? Jesus did. John the Baptist did. The Holy Spirit comes FOR THIS REASON. My hope is that all of you who are Christian would choose wisely whom you open your ears to. Test all spirits. We know the signs of the Holy Spirit according to John 16:8. We may not like to hear this, but we must conform to the truth and not our feelings.

 

May the grace of Jesus Christ be with you.

 

You know M30, and you may find this odd, although I enjoy the true repentance. I've repented under both conditions, meaning condemnation vs true Holy Spirit conviction and can say for me there is a big difference. Conviction of the Holy Spirit is freeing, while condemnation is bondage. Repentance feels really good IMO.

 

It's interesting that you started this thread- just the other day I saw Paul Crouch rebuke Pastors ...not in a mean way, but in a firm manor. He said basically what you are saying here. If memory serves correct, he asked what had happened to the Billy Graham style of preaching.

 

God Bless you too, you're a beautiful Brother and I respect you greatly :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
just the other day I saw Paul Crouch rebuke Pastors ...not in a mean way, but in a firm manor. He said basically what you are saying here. If memory serves correct, he asked what had happened to the Billy Graham style of teaching.

 

The Bible says that people don't accidentally get misled by false teachers; it says that false teachers are the judgement sent by God, himself, to a people who will not hear the truth or tolerate sound doctrine.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
The Bible says that people don't accidentally get misled by false teachers; it says that false teachers are the judgement sent by God, himself, to a people who will not hear the truth or tolerate sound doctrine.

 

This can be the truth in so many areas, even the secular. In everything we make a choice and are accountable.

 

The Lord took me back the other day and showed me the massive amounts of preaching I saw in 2012 and there was only ONE that stood up for the issues concerning God... I'm seeing this on a political level. I am very angry. Political correctness is MORE important than the things of God or speaking the things of God.

 

A friend explained it this way...it's all about pleasure and self.

 

M30, years ago I was upset speaking to a group of people stating: there is a church on every street corner practically in America ...and LOOK at the STATE of this nation. Is there something wrong with this picture????

 

I'm going to shut up now because I am no better- keep preaching it Brother because you are making a difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The Bible says that people don't accidentally get misled by false teachers; it says that false teachers are the judgement sent by God, himself, to a people who will not hear the truth or tolerate sound doctrine.

 

Just now understanding this statement. Amen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
skydiveaddict
I had a huge revelation today while reading the Gospel of John. I have for a long time been contemplating how so many pastors and churches can claim to be teaching God's truth without ever mentioning sin or repentance.

 

It's because they'e not catholic priests

Edited by skydiveaddict
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
It's because they'e not catholic priests

 

It's because they don't teach Scripture. Secondly, catholic priests can't forgive sins--only God himself can do that, and it came at a pretty hefty price.

Link to post
Share on other sites
skydiveaddict
It's because they don't teach Scripture. Secondly, catholic priests can't forgive sins--only God himself can do that, and it came at a pret hefty price.

 

Wrong. (John 20:20-23)

 

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you.

As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,

“Receive the Holy Spirit.

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them,

and whose sins you retain are retained.”

 

That can't be any more clear my friend. But continue to deny it if you wish.

Edited by skydiveaddict
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Wrong. (John 20:20-23)

 

Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you.

As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,

“Receive the Holy Spirit.

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them,

and whose sins you retain are retained.”

 

That can't be any more clear my friend. But continue to deny it if you wish.

 

You're talking about a separate issue. In such an example, when a person chooses to forgive another, it's still God that does the forgiving. A parallel to this is where God says that if we proclaim his name before men, then Christ will proclaim our name before the Father (or vice versa). Secondly, in such cases these are sins directly committed against us, not just general sin. God looks to us and says, just like a judge in court, "If you don't press charges and you forgive them, then I won't prosecute." God is still the forgiver.

 

Even the Jews and priests in ancient times knew that only God can forgive sins. This is why they were ready to stone Jesus when he said "your sins are forgiven"--because they knew Jesus, by that comment, was equating himself to God.

Edited by M30USA
Link to post
Share on other sites

Please ponder for a moment God's ultimate law -- which is the Law Of Free Will. Please also ponder for a moment God's other law, which the Law of Cause & Effect which complements the Law Of Free Will.

 

We literally have the will to do ANYTHING we want including committing sinful acts, acts that when you sow, you will reap in the future. So please ponder for a moment if God gave us free will and demonstrated that in the fall of Eve in the Garden Of Eden, why then are we preaching sins and repentance when we will reap what we sow.

 

Now think for moment about this. If a child goes into debt with credit cards and then ask the parents to bail the child out by asking for repentance and forgiveness. The parents paid off the debt. Will the child learn the lesson by having the parents learn the lessons for the child? We know from real life that it does not work that way.

 

When we sow, we reap. When we sow hate, anger, anxiety, we reap all of them. These are not God's loving emotions. So how can God forgive you and take them off your burden?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Please ponder for a moment God's ultimate law -- which is the Law Of Free Will. Please also ponder for a moment God's other law, which the Law of Cause & Effect which complements the Law Of Free Will.

 

We literally have the will to do ANYTHING we want including committing sinful acts, acts that when you sow, you will reap in the future. So please ponder for a moment if God gave us free will and demonstrated that in the fall of Eve in the Garden Of Eden, why then are we preaching sins and repentance when we will reap what we sow.

 

Now think for moment about this. If a child goes into debt with credit cards and then ask the parents to bail the child out by asking for repentance and forgiveness. The parents paid off the debt. Will the child learn the lesson by having the parents learn the lessons for the child? We know from real life that it does not work that way.

 

When we sow, we reap. When we sow hate, anger, anxiety, we reap all of them. These are not God's loving emotions. So how can God forgive you and take them off your burden?

 

What's the difference between you and God then? You're sounding like the all-sovereign Most High.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
the real purpose is to divide and spread hate.

 

Is the doctor who informs a patient of cancer and makes a treatment plan doing so out of hate? Would you rather have him speak a pleasant word over the patient and have him go merrily on his way?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
skydiveaddict
You're talking about a separate issue. In such an example, when a person chooses to forgive another, it's still God that does the forgiving.

 

Wrong again. Jesus gave His apostles the direct authority to forgive sins in His name. That's why the priest says " I absolve you of your sins in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit."

 

This extraordinary power is only given to priests with valid holy orders.

You're a "born again" protestant. That's why you can't understand it.

Edited by skydiveaddict
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Wrong again. Jesus gave His apostles the direct authority to forgive sins in His name. That's why the priest says " I absolve you of your sins in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit."

 

Please tell me which verse(s) you are referring to so I can address this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This extraordinary power is only given to priests with valid holy orders.

You're a "born again" protestant. That's why you can't understand it.

 

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them,

and whose sins you retain are retained.”

 

The original verse you posted didn't seem to differentiate between the average Christian, and someone specially ordained by men. It sounds like the verse is saying we all have the responsibility to forgive, not that a man on earth must forgive me or my sins will be retained.

Link to post
Share on other sites
skydiveaddict
Please tell me which verse(s) you are referring to so I can address this.

 

I already did that, but here it is again:

 

John 20:22:

 

"So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
I already did that, but here it is again:

 

John 20:22:

 

"So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

 

How can a person forgive sins when the forgiveness of sins requires the shed blood of Christ? There are many examples like this where God puts authority in our hands, yet the true mechanism is still done by Him. This is one example. Another example is the spreading of the Gospel, which he requires us to do, yet on another occasion he tells us that His spirit is the only means by which a person receives the Gospel and is entirely in his control.

Edited by M30USA
Link to post
Share on other sites
skydiveaddict
How can a person forgive sins when the forgiveness of sins requires the shed blood of Christ?

 

I never said it didn't. It does. I'm only telling you the obvious. Christ gave the authority to bind sins or loose them to His apostles. No one else. And those Holy Orders have been passed on from Jesus to St. Peter to Pope Francis. There is no way around it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...