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"You shall know them by their fruits"


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... or posts, in this case.

 

Proverbs 20:11 Even a child is known by his actions, by whether his conduct is pure and right.

Matthew 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 12:33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.

Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

Luke 6:44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

 

So surely, posters who profess to be religious - and specifically Christian - should through their posts be known as loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, and faithful? Surely their posting conduct should be consistent with the beliefs they profess (and hold others to)?

 

So why is it that some of the most spiteful posters who are dogged in their vendettas against other members - whom they don't even know IRL - are (or claim to be) Christians? Are they fake Christians, laying claim to a title that isn't really theirs, since they can't live up to the requirement (at least as evidenced by their behaviour on these forums)? or is their religiosity contextual - something they only put on when they feel the angels are watching them? Or is it a case of do whatever you want, and just say sorry in your prayers tonight? :confused:

 

I am genuinely confused by this. I am not religious, but have many religious friends - whose behaviour typically is consistent with that dictated by their religion - so I am used to someone who professes to be X behaving like X, rather than like anti-X. I find it very difficult to reconcile some of the behaviour I see demonstrated here with revelations by some posters that they in fact subscribe to a religion where such behaviour is absolutely anathema.

 

Am I expecting too much of such people to hope they might practice what they preach (or at least, what they claim to subscribe to)? :(

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White Flower

I am quite curious to know the answer as well.

 

I find it very confusing when I see rude and mean-spirited remarks and actions from posters and people IRL who claim to be religious or spiritual. If you're going to talk the talk, then you need to walk the walk. Otherwise zip your lips and don't shame God by falsely advertising for him.

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ALonerAgain

Good points, OWoman and White FLower,

 

I can recall seeing a post from someone on LS admitting that they are only Christian when it serves them!

 

It does irk me when people prove themselves as hypocritical yet still insist on taking the moral highground...

Edited by ALonerAgain
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I can only speak for myself but will admit that letting go of the idea that one can change an evil person got me for a while. Focusing on bringing that person to God in my prayers helped in the end.. rather than bothering to confronting them. H'mm.. the unrepentant are so for a reason I found.

 

So OP, the answer is you are more than likely perceived as an evil person, which you may in fact be.

 

I felt like this about my Hubbys ex for a long time and if I think about the whoring, stupid, blonde bitch for too long.. well, there you go.

 

I tend to leave it alone now but it is still there. The day she goes to hell it shall pass methinks.

 

Hence, if you are actively one of those that members tend to come onto other sections of the board to complain about (I don't go onto that section of the board so don't know.. I just have your username to go by) you may in fact represent the mortal wound of another.

 

I have briefly come into contact with some pretty stuck people on this board and can imagine the fireworks that goes off there.. Christian or not.. :laugh:

 

Take care,

Eve x

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...

So why is it that some of the most spiteful posters who are dogged in their vendettas against other members - whom they don't even know IRL - are (or claim to be) Christians? Are they fake Christians, laying claim to a title that isn't really theirs, since they can't live up to the requirement (at least as evidenced by their behaviour on these forums)? or is their religiosity contextual - something they only put on when they feel the angels are watching them? Or is it a case of do whatever you want, and just say sorry in your prayers tonight? :confused:

 

(

Without knowing who you are talking about and their allegedly spiteful post I can't say. It may be the receiver hears what he wants to hear and sees bad fruit because the speaker doesn't agree with him.

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dreamingoftigers
... or posts, in this case.

 

So surely, posters who profess to be religious - and specifically Christian - should through their posts be known as loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, and faithful? Surely their posting conduct should be consistent with the beliefs they profess (and hold others to)?

 

So why is it that some of the most spiteful posters who are dogged in their vendettas against other members - whom they don't even know IRL - are (or claim to be) Christians? Are they fake Christians, laying claim to a title that isn't really theirs, since they can't live up to the requirement (at least as evidenced by their behaviour on these forums)? or is their religiosity contextual - something they only put on when they feel the angels are watching them? Or is it a case of do whatever you want, and just say sorry in your prayers tonight? :confused:

 

I am genuinely confused by this. I am not religious, but have many religious friends - whose behaviour typically is consistent with that dictated by their religion - so I am used to someone who professes to be X behaving like X, rather than like anti-X. I find it very difficult to reconcile some of the behaviour I see demonstrated here with revelations by some posters that they in fact subscribe to a religion where such behaviour is absolutely anathema.

 

Am I expecting too much of such people to hope they might practice what they preach (or at least, what they claim to subscribe to)? :(

 

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

 

You know what? Thanks for posting this up. I can say that I do believe in God and follow many of the "behaviours" outlined my my particular church.

 

I am also willing to admit that in the greater scheme of things, I am kind of a crappy tree. Some of this is due to my humanity and human failings (even Biblically David one of the closest and most blessed prophets of God was tempted into murder, that says something about our very nature). Some of it is due to the fact that I can be caught in distracting things that pull me away from God.

 

The fruits of the spirit as listed above are not always ones that I exhibit to others because I am not balanced in them myself. I am not always joyous, ( in fact no so often, do not confuse joyous and happy, I am not always peaceful at the core, nor patient, nor kind, nor filled with faith for God.

 

I view myself as a work in progress. I don't use my values as a weapon on anyone else. But also.... I never laid the claim of self-perfection as a Christian. As a Chrisitian, I don't claim to have all of the answers, I claim that He has all of the answers, and to look to him for your comfort and guidance.

 

My actions do not necessarily show who Christ is, they only show how close or far away from him I am. You could no more judge who Christ is or was or the validity of the teachings of Christ through me on any given Tueday then you could judge me by what my husband tells you. You could get an inkling, a piece of the puzzle, maybe. But that would be it.

 

I would say that posting sometimes snarkily etc as I have done in the past month or so (trust me nowhere near as severe as I often see on here, but that is not the point), I would say shows me to be somewhat out of direct touch with God, but that I still recognize his overarching influence in my life. And that's about accurate.

 

When I have studied into a church, I look at the teachings and how they jive within themselves. Yes the fruit of the tree is definitely a factor, truth tends to bring freedom and happiness. If someone isn't being at peace and joyful, I would say that they lost their path to Christ. Not that Christ has failed.

 

Oh, as well, are certain posters attacking a behaviour that doesn't fit the values that they believe or a poster? There can be a big difference there. You see if a poster does X and they strongly associate themselves with X, then another poster attacking X would look like to the orginal poster like they were attacking them directly.

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I view myself as a work in progress. I don't use my values as a weapon on anyone else. But also.... I never laid the claim of self-perfection as a Christian. As a Chrisitian, I don't claim to have all of the answers, I claim that He has all of the answers, and to look to him for your comfort and guidance.

 

My actions do not necessarily show who Christ is, they only show how close or far away from him I am. You could no more judge who Christ is or was or the validity of the teachings of Christ through me on any given Tueday then you could judge me by what my husband tells you. You could get an inkling, a piece of the puzzle, maybe. But that would be it.

 

 

DOT, thanks for posting this. This is the attitude I would have expected in a Christian poster - perhaps naively or ignorantly, IDK - in terms of how I understand the teachings. I appreciate the sincerity (and humility) and honesty of your answer :)

 

 

Oh, as well, are certain posters attacking a behaviour that doesn't fit the values that they believe or a poster? There can be a big difference there. You see if a poster does X and they strongly associate themselves with X, then another poster attacking X would look like to the orginal poster like they were attacking them directly.

 

There is a big difference indeed! It's also a difference outlined in the TOS - where personal attacks are disallowed and members are asked to disagree with each other respectfully and civilly. And many do.

 

But some go out of their way to post spitefully, to attempt to hurt individuals (often those already in pain) rather than addressing the issues raised in the post, attempting to assassinate the character of the other member and to discredit them rather than their argument. I can certainly understand disagreeing with behaviours, or viewpoints - having grown up in a multicultural country I'm used to a diversity of (strongly held, divergent) viewpoints. But there are ways to do it that convince and ways to do it that inflame. I've never seen anyone persuaded to change their views or their behaviours on being insulted, harangued or bullied.

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dreamingoftigers
DOT, thanks for posting this. This is the attitude I would have expected in a Christian poster - perhaps naively or ignorantly, IDK - in terms of how I understand the teachings. I appreciate the sincerity (and humility) and honesty of your answer :)

 

 

 

 

There is a big difference indeed! It's also a difference outlined in the TOS - where personal attacks are disallowed and members are asked to disagree with each other respectfully and civilly. And many do.

 

But some go out of their way to post spitefully, to attempt to hurt individuals (often those already in pain) rather than addressing the issues raised in the post, attempting to assassinate the character of the other member and to discredit them rather than their argument. I can certainly understand disagreeing with behaviours, or viewpoints - having grown up in a multicultural country I'm used to a diversity of (strongly held, divergent) viewpoints. But there are ways to do it that convince and ways to do it that inflame. I've never seen anyone persuaded to change their views or their behaviours on being insulted, harangued or bullied.

 

Two things I try to think about while posting (or in general):

 

1. Consider your audience.

 

2. Letting people know that you think you have no value for them doesn't really get them to listen to you or consider your points. Shaming rarely alters people's behaviours.

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pureinheart
Two things I try to think about while posting (or in general):

 

1. Consider your audience.

 

2. Letting people know that you think you have no value for them doesn't really get them to listen to you or consider your points. Shaming rarely alters people's behaviours.

 

Shaming is actually a manipulation tactic to control one or more persons.

 

I think it's interesting that you spoke of King David...God referred to him as a man after God's own heart. God knows the motive behind the motive, He knows the heart of an individual, and even though King David broke the "Law", his heart was right.

 

According to the Old and New Testament, we will fail while in these "human" bodies, it IS going to happen everyday, so (in answer to OP) to post with a spirit of condemnation, bitterness and hate is not God.

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pureinheart
Without knowing who you are talking about and their allegedly spiteful post I can't say. It may be the receiver hears what he wants to hear and sees bad fruit because the speaker doesn't agree with him.

 

No alleged accusations, as I have seen the posts also, just read the various boards for personal verification. I have wondered the same thing as the OP and have beome confused also. I do understand that people have bad days and may be more critical on some days than others while going through difficult times...but this is much different.

 

It is against TOS to name specific posters, so the concept is all that can be addressed.

 

I don't think it's an issue of agreeing or disagreeing. I have been in many forums in which not all agree, although there is not the hate and personal agendas...and when this is done in the name of God...well it's not God. Period.

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Feelin Frisky

The message of Christ has always been obscured by persons who co-opt Christianity to gain power over others. So often we will hear such people quote Jesus as if they have some special authority. But the real Jesus spoke not a word of English, the New Testament was written in Greek, translated to Latin and eventually English but not the English we speak today--something almost entirely unintelligible we call "Old English". So, one must discount any sense of words being preceise and simply look at apparent actions of Jesus' life. It's not what Jesus said that matters in the long run, it's what he did. And what he appears to have done was to risk his life to lead people out of territorialism and materialism and into fellowship, forgiveness and love. He paid for that with his life. If we are to honor him in any way we can only do that by emulating him--not worshiping him.

 

Worship is what Christ appears to have stood against. When people worship they give over the power of good which is inside them and yield blindly to those who may deceive them. The Roman Empire co-opted Christianity and turned it into a power shphere draped in gold--it is anti-thetical of what Christ died for. If you look around today at co-opters of Christianity, you will see traits of blind yielding to the words of others, materialism, territorialism, dismissiveness, vindictiveness. These are the opposite of "fellowship".

 

I beg that this post not be censored. I stand for fellowship and I offer it. I have a tolerance level like anyone else but I try to extend the benefit of the doubt to other people. I have not been receiving much of that lately and how much can this post hurt?

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White Flower
Two things I try to think about while posting (or in general):

 

1. Consider your audience.

 

2. Letting people know that you think you have no value for them doesn't really get them to listen to you or consider your points. Shaming rarely alters people's behaviours.

Amen to that!

 

 

But some posters just don't get it.:o

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It's not what Jesus said that matters in the long run, it's what he did. And what he appears to have done was to risk his life to lead people out of territorialism and materialism and into fellowship, forgiveness and love. He paid for that with his life. If we are to honor him in any way we can only do that by emulating him--not worshiping him.

 

I like that notion. Though I'm less keen on the martyrdom the latter bit implies :eek:

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Feelin Frisky
I like that notion. Though I'm less keen on the martyrdom the latter bit implies :eek:

 

By emulating Jesus I mean being willing to stand alone on the strength of one's convictions no matter how unpopular that might be with the cast of players in a certain situation. Each person will have to decide internally whether the stakes are high enough to risk life and limb for. The bottom line to me however is that the last thing Jesus would want is for people to not do anything and simply "worship" him. If his message were about "worship", he wouldn't have been born "poor" but instead have flown out of the sky in a golden chariot.

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DreamerGirl27

Everyone has a spiritual gift. Mine happens to be prophecy. Prophetics make the WORST doctors/nurses or anything in that field, because we have really bad, really blunt ways of saying things. We would not have a good bed side manner.

 

For example:

 

If someone came in with a weight problem, I'd probably tell them to stop eating like a hog you idiot.

 

:lmao:

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dreamingoftigers
Everyone has a spiritual gift. Mine happens to be prophecy. Prophetics make the WORST doctors/nurses or anything in that field, because we have really bad, really blunt ways of saying things. We would not have a good bed side manner.

 

For example:

 

If someone came in with a weight problem, I'd probably tell them to stop eating like a hog you idiot.

 

:lmao:

 

What scriptures support any of this theory?

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DreamerGirl27
What scriptures support any of this theory?

 

It's in the bible, not quoting where it's at because I don't have it copied at the moment, but I learned it at my church. My pastor did a sermon on it, he does one around the same time every year, and it is in the bible.

 

Everyone has a spiritual gift. Speaking for Christian's. Mine is prophecy..there's also mercy, teaching, and several others. I think there's 7? I don't know. But prophets tend to be very bad with their tongues. Probably because prophets are really good at reading scripture and being able to say it like it is and when people don't know how it is, it irritates us. I'm really good at reading things and just knowing exactly what it means and when people don't follow that, I get irritated.

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DreamerGirl27
It's in the bible, not quoting where it's at because I don't have it copied at the moment, but I learned it at my church. My pastor did a sermon on it, he does one around the same time every year, and it is in the bible.

 

Everyone has a spiritual gift. Speaking for Christian's. Mine is prophecy..there's also mercy, teaching, and several others. I think there's 7? I don't know. But prophets tend to be very bad with their tongues. Probably because prophets are really good at reading scripture and being able to say it like it is and when people don't know how it is, it irritates us. I'm really good at reading things and just knowing exactly what it means and when people don't follow that, I get irritated.

 

Another example:

 

Someone with the gift of mercy would make an excellent nurse or doctor, because they tend to care a lot about how others feel and are better and not as quick with their tongue.

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dreamingoftigers
It's in the bible, not quoting where it's at because I don't have it copied at the moment, but I learned it at my church. My pastor did a sermon on it, he does one around the same time every year, and it is in the bible.

 

Everyone has a spiritual gift. Speaking for Christian's. Mine is prophecy..there's also mercy, teaching, and several others. I think there's 7? I don't know. But prophets tend to be very bad with their tongues. Probably because prophets are really good at reading scripture and being able to say it like it is and when people don't know how it is, it irritates us. I'm really good at reading things and just knowing exactly what it means and when people don't follow that, I get irritated.

 

I am familiar with the spiritual gifts, thank you anyways.

 

What I wanted to know was where your ideas about those with the gift of prophecy came from.

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DreamerGirl27
I am familiar with the spiritual gifts, thank you anyways.

 

What I wanted to know was where your ideas about those with the gift of prophecy came from.

 

 

Learned that in the same sermon. We prophets are just bad at saying things. I don't know how else to word it. See.

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DreamerGirl27
Learned that in the same sermon. We prophets are just bad at saying things. I don't know how else to word it. See.

 

The pastor went through each gift each week and spent time teaching about each and every different one. I never finished going to all the sermons, something I wished I would have, and might do in the future.

 

That's where I learned a lot about people with the gift of prophecy.

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dreamingoftigers

:laugh::laugh:

 

I am pretty familiar with a lot of mainstream beliefs. I just wondered where that one might have arisen from. Sometimes things get a little mixed around depending on the group or denomination.

 

You see those traits don't correlate with anything that I have read and remembered. That's why I asked.

 

It is always good to examine and re-examine one's beliefs. It is like you smelt them like silver until you get to the core.

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DreamerGirl27

The part where prophets are bad at saying things was part of the weaknesses. he went through all the strengths and weaknesses of each gift. Not saying things nicely was a weakness of prophets. It definitely matched up with me very well. I don't even find it bad, I find it funny. 'Cause I'm mean like that. I just am really good at reading things (particularly scripture, that's what it applies to, but I'm sure you can apply it to life situations as well), knowing exactly what it means and being able to see it for what it is and understand it to the full extent. When someone doesn't "obey god" or strays or does anything that I deem not worthy, instead of being nice and loving about it, I tend to get really mean with my words. Prophets make horrible teachers of churches as well, because they get wrapped up in just the doctrine of the bible and saying it how it is and beating you over the head with the bible, instead of saying it in a loving, Christian way.

 

It's just one of the weaknesses.

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DreamerGirl27
SPIRITUAL GIFT OF PROPHECY

In Romans 12:6 Paul writes, “If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith” (NIV). Strong interprets prophecy as a “prediction (scriptural or other), an inspired speaker; or to speak under inspiration.” In the Old Testament prophecy was often predictive or praying and speaking on behalf of God, calling the people to repent of their sins or face God’s wrath. In the New Testament, because the scripture was not complete, prophecy was speaking on God’s behalf with authority on the Christian experience. Paul writes in

I Corinthians 14:3 that prophecy was to edify, encourage and comfort the believers.

Prophecy today is still through an inspired speaker. A person with this gift, like its Old Testament counterpart, has a keen awareness of current events and the cultural implications of not following God’s word. This is important because each church is made up of people, customs, and circumstances that are different from others. Prophecy helps us apply the scriptures to where we live. A person with this gift has a burden to warn of God’s judgment and the need for us to repent.

 

calling the people to repent of their sins OR FACE GOD'S WRATH.

 

This is me. That's what prophets do. I have this attitude in every way shape and form. I can tell sin when I see it and when someone I know and care about, or even some stranger on the internet, says something unholy or that I know is a sin, I get to this line of thinking. "You better stop it, or you're going to Hell"

 

We have a really hard time saying things in a nice way. It's something I will forever struggle with. I am just really aware of right and wrong.

 

My sense of morals get me in trouble. But they also keep me out of trouble. and cause me to be extremely stubborn.

 

Which is why I'm so upset that i've found this awesome guy that I really care about, and all he cares about is getting laid. That's not Godly. In the least. That is not how you're supposed to treat your fellow ladies in Christ, either and he really sends me overboard when he says stuff like, "I need to get laid".

 

But...in knowing right from wrong, I will most certainly be able to wait until marriage for sex and all those things that I crave. Because if I don't, I'm also aware of my own sin. And I treat myself no differently than anyone else. When I sin, I tell myself, "you idiot, what's wrong with you?!"

 

In a loving, Christian way, though, of course I would not word things this way, but that's apart of my weakness and apart of my sense of humor. It probably doesn't come across as funny to most, but I get great enjoyment out of saying, "stop it or you're going to Hell" to pretty much everyone.

 

::shrugs::

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