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Pascal's Wager, Biblical Contradition


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Just a thought... what if I'm wrong and you're right? What did I lose? I would have lived a moral life... I still had fun, found love, had happiness and then died... the end. What if I'M right and you're wrong? You may have lived a moral life, had fun, found love, had happiness, and then died... not the end... hell. Then what?

 

What you propose is known as "Pascal's Wager", and is an excellent example of faulty logic.

 

The statement above implies that the only god possible is the Christian one, and that is not so. What if Islam is right? If that is so, then Christians are worse off than atheists. What if Odin is really god? Would he be angrier at someone who worshipped someone else, or none at all?

 

This is also something of an "argument ad baculum", or an appeal to force. "Believe in my god because if he is real and you don't, you will be punished."

 

The ddifference, too, is that in not accepting things on no evidence I have a greater hance of experiencing and understanding reality, and therefore getting more out of life than someone who believes as you suggest above.

 

To inlude the biblical contradicition part, I'd like to see if any beleivers can give me a linear acount of the Gospels, without omitting any event. This should only take a few moments, no?

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This is also something of an "argument ad baculum", or an appeal to force. "Believe in my god because if he is real and you don't, you will be punished."

 

The ddifference, too, is that in not accepting things on no evidence I have a greater hance of experiencing and understanding reality, and therefore getting more out of life than someone who believes as you suggest above.

 

I couldn't agree more...

Challenging things is something I have done since I was a child (who was, incidentally, brought up as CofE by my mother, who has since become a non-believer. My dad on the other hand hass gone from atheist to believer... go figure, I love them both, we don't talk about it too much.

I have several family members who are very devout to their chosen religions which are both christian, however these family members don't speak to eachother as the branches of christianity they belong to don't believe in eachother.

Another thing I find overwhelmingly sad. That a brother and sister can be separated by different beliefs. They are missing out on so much, yet they believe in the same god, just different ways of following his rules.

Its beyond my comprehension that two educated SIBLINGS can have so much disdain for eachother over something like that.

 

By the time my confirmation came around, I questioned the church, the existence of god, and the parts of the bible I was familiar with so much that I think the vicar despaired of me.

I, however, felt energised, and the more I read, the less I believed that ONE religion could be right.. how could ONE be right? It must mean that at least ONE (or more) is wrong....but they all insist that they are right- they can't be. So.... stalemate.

 

To me, science is tangible, quantitative, and it makes sense.

Evolution makes sense. The apes didn't and still don't believe in gods.

If our species hadn't evolved (there but for a chance mutation go I), neither would have religions or the concept of gods.

 

 

To inlude the biblical contradicition part, I'd like to see if any beleivers can give me a linear acount of the Gospels, without omitting any event. This should only take a few moments, no?

 

It would appear not......

Sorry to threadjack Moai, just wanted a chance to say my piece without continuing to threadjack someone elses thread...

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burning 4 revenge

Evolution makes sense. The apes didn't and still don't believe in gods.

yes they do, you just havent taken the right drugs
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If you think about this further, you will see that it is not faulty logic. If an atheist is correct in their beliefs, we all die... the end, right? On the other hand, if God does exist, the question then turns into which religion is the "right one"? You then have to do some soul searching, maybe some research... why not pray and ask God which religion you should become a part of and place your faith in?* Then you have a decision to make. I am secure in my decision (Christianity - accepting Jesus as my Savior). You might ask me, what if you are wrong? I am confident that I am not, but for "argument's sake" - which I hate - at least I "placed a bet on the table" (sorry, it's the first metaphor I can come up with of the top of my head)... therefore I would be better off than an atheist who made no "bet". That's for you, Sb129... I made a lighthearted comment. :)

 

Moai said that, "in not accepting things on no evidence I have a greater hance of experiencing and understanding reality, and therefore getting more out of life than someone who believes as you suggest above." If there is no God and we a die and that's it, then who cares... none of it would matter anyway. Who cares what you get out of a meaningless life? I say meaningless, because if we die and don't exist anymore, then what we learn disappears, and is therefore meaningless. Also, as far as "getting more out of life" what more do you have that I do not? A family? Love? Fun? Happiness? I have all that. I'm not missing out on anything.

 

-Note: The History Channel offers scientific, historical evidence that God/Jesus did and do exist. Maybe you should do some more researching. Make 100% sure YOUR choice is right, and until you can (which you can't) why completely discredit what I am saying? What if your soul really does depend on it? I don't expect an answer, as it won't benefit me in any way, I just want you to think about it.

 

I am also going to repeat what I said in an earlier post on a different thread: I am not interested in arguing religion. If someone is honestly interested in my views for their personal benefit, by all means, I will discuss it. However, I will not discuss my religious view strictly for entertainment. My reasoning behind this is that I have a family that needs my attention, and on my free time, I am willing to help someone with a problem... I am not going to use my limited time to debate just for entertainment or for "arguments sake" That serves no purpose, and I have a Purpose in my life... you Christians out there know what it is.:)

 

*(Be patient and be receptive... God answers in different ways, and will lead you if you ask.)

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-Note: The History Channel offers scientific, historical evidence that God/Jesus did and do exist.

They do? That's news to me. Wow, the people at the history channel should really get a raise or something. Now that that's settled I guess we can all focus on the important business of sycophantic god worship

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i was in a similiar situation in high school. so many to choose from, whos right whos wrong, what happens. I asked so many questions to so many people received so many different answers and each one saying the other is wrong. So i stopped. I decided i am no longer going to listen to all these people. i am going to go to God and ask him. After all he is all knowing and after all it is his word i am questioning. I prayed and asked god to reveil himself to me. Show me that he is real and that he is alive. Show me the truth of his word. And he did just that. he lead me to his son Jesus and the minute I accepted him into my life and heart and seen what a sacrifice he made just for me that I may live an abundant life i began to see how alive God is in the world. and what a loving and accepting father he is. and that there is no condemnation to those who accept him. he lead me to his holy Spirit and filled me. gave me purpose and abilities. but most of all, he gave me his love. somethign i had longed for, to be loved and accepted. His love is from everlasting to everlasting and nothing can seperate you from that. not the condition you are in today, nothing that may come upon you tomorrow, nothing you have done or will do. his love is true and pure and wonderful. oh he is real, just ask him to show you his presence, ask him to show you his love. he will and you will be amazed. I can feel him just writing this to you. I believe Jesus was Gods son and that he died on the cross for me and for this world and that he loved us so much that he gave his very life that we may live with him for eternity.

if you need anymore proof just keep your eyes on jeruselem and you will see the prophetic word of God un folding before your eyes and you will see that the return of Chirst is soon and he will come for those who are ready for him. just pray and trust.

also i am not here to strike up arguments, just offering sincere encouragement and sharing my testimony on what the Lord has done for me. god bless you.

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...oh he is real, just ask him to show you his presence, ask him to show you his love. he will and you will be amazed. I can feel him just writing this to you. I believe Jesus was Gods son and that he died on the cross for me and for this world and that he loved us so much that he gave his very life that we may live with him for eternity.

if you need anymore proof just keep your eyes on jeruselem and you will see the prophetic word of God un folding before your eyes and you will see that the return of Chirst is soon and he will come for those who are ready for him. just pray and trust.

also i am not here to strike up arguments, just offering sincere encouragement and sharing my testimony on what the Lord has done for me. god bless you.

 

... and God bless you, Jason. Your testimony was great and I thank you for sharing it.

 

You made a good point. The Bible offers up proof itself. Revelation is full of... revelations...:D... that were written so long ago. They are happening all around us in today's times. What's great is that they are not vague, but very specific.

 

"Choose you this day who you will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

 

"Glory and praise be to Jesus Christ, the Son of God forever and ever. Amen."

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in not accepting things on no evidence I have a greater chance of experiencing and understanding reality, and therefore getting more out of life than someone who believes as you suggest above.

 

that's an interesting viewpoint ... because as a believer, I feel that *I* am getting more out of the reality of life because of that added "oomph" I call God ...

 

The apes didn't and still don't believe in gods.

 

does this mean non-believers are then apes? :D:D:D

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If you think about this further, you will see that it is not faulty logic.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong. Look it up.

 

If an atheist is correct in their beliefs, we all die... the end, right?

 

Actually, atheism is lack of belief. From what we can objectively see, no matter what you believe we die and that's the end.

 

On the other hand, if God does exist, the question then turns into which religion is the "right one"? You then have to do some soul searching, maybe some research... why not pray and ask God which religion you should become a part of and place your faith in?*

 

Again, faulty logic. First, one must determine if there is a god or not, that is so. Since that cannot be done, the experiment ends there.

 

But to take your line of thinking further, one must then decide which god to pray to in order to ask him for help in which god to pray to. For example, if I decide that Odin is the right one and pray to him for help but he is not the right one, then I will receive no aid in my "soul-searching."

 

Notice, too, that sitting and thinking about something and not investigating is no way to determine truth. Would you see a doctor who said, "I went home and thought about your broken arm all night, and this is what we should do."?

 

Then you have a decision to make. I am secure in my decision (Christianity - accepting Jesus as my Savior). You might ask me, what if you are wrong? I am confident that I am not, but for "argument's sake" - which I hate - at least I "placed a bet on the table" (sorry, it's the first metaphor I can come up with of the top of my head)... therefore I would be better off than an atheist who made no "bet". That's for you, Sb129... I made a lighthearted comment. :)

 

Again, incorrect. There is no way that you studied every religion on Earth before you made your decision, simply because you have already arrived at one. Did you honestly consider Naturism, or Polynesian Island religions? Did you study the ins and outs of Mormonism or Islam to any degree? The fact is you chose Christianity because you live in the West (I assume this because you seem fluent in English) and that makes the most sense because of your culture. The vast majority choose the same religion as your parents. If you had been born in Yemen, you'd be a Muslim.

 

As far as the bet goes, how do you know that is how a god would react? Consider what god says about graven images and having no other gods and being jealous. Clearly, the god of the Bible does not accept belief in other gods as "ok". In fact, that is central to the doctrine of your faith. The very god you assert is the One True God doesn't accept that. Why should the others be any different?

 

In not accepting any of them (I only reject one more god than you do, by the way), I am at least ethical and living without fear. As Russell said, "If I die and God does exist and asks me why I didn't worship him, I will reply, 'Not enough evidence.'"

 

Moai said that, "in not accepting things on no evidence I have a greater hance of experiencing and understanding reality, and therefore getting more out of life than someone who believes as you suggest above." If there is no God and we a die and that's it, then who cares... none of it would matter anyway. Who cares what you get out of a meaningless life? I say meaningless, because if we die and don't exist anymore, then what we learn disappears, and is therefore meaningless. Also, as far as "getting more out of life" what more do you have that I do not? A family? Love? Fun? Happiness? I have all that. I'm not missing out on anything.

 

Why does life after death equal meaning? My life means a great deal to me--m,re, probably because I know that this is all there is, and I had damn sure make the most of it. Not only that, if I can do something great, other people will benefit long after I am gone, and they will sing about me around campfires and praise my heroic name. Or not. Meaning is determined by the individual, all the time everywhere. If life after death gives your life meaning, good for you, but that doesn't mean that such a belief is based in reality.

 

-Note: The History Channel offers scientific, historical evidence that God/Jesus did and do exist. Maybe you should do some more researching. Make 100% sure YOUR choice is right, and until you can (which you can't) why completely discredit what I am saying? What if your soul really does depend on it? I don't expect an answer, as it won't benefit me in any way, I just want you to think about it.

 

I watch these same programs, and they do not mean what you think they mean. Jesus may or may not have existed, but even if you could prove someone named Jesus actually lived you'd be no closer to proving he was god than you are now. I am not 100% sure about anything, as i am always open to new evidence. In many cases, the chance of there being such evidence is so close to zero that worrying about it is silly.

 

If there is all this evidence (which there isn't) why do we need faith? I believe that there is a Sun because I can see it and feel its heat. If that were so for the Biblegod, everyone would believe as a matter of course. But they obviously don't. More theists don't believe in Him than do. And they are praying for guidance all the time, and that guidance seems to lead them to Islam.

 

I am also going to repeat what I said in an earlier post on a different thread: I am not interested in arguing religion. If someone is honestly interested in my views for their personal benefit, by all means, I will discuss it. However, I will not discuss my religious view strictly for entertainment. My reasoning behind this is that I have a family that needs my attention, and on my free time, I am willing to help someone with a problem... I am not going to use my limited time to debate just for entertainment or for "arguments sake" That serves no purpose, and I have a Purpose in my life... you Christians out there know what it is.:)

 

Then why did you respond to this thread at all? And don't others who are possibly lost need to hear your testimony?

 

*(Be patient and be receptive... God answers in different ways, and will lead you if you ask.)

 

Pray and ask him to explain what an argument ad baculum is, and see what anwser you get. Then, look it up and see if the answers are the same.

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that's an interesting viewpoint ... because as a believer, I feel that *I* am getting more out of the reality of life because of that added "oomph" I call God ...

 

 

Well said, Quankanne. If you learn valuable things throughout life, and then when you die, there is nothing, what was the point in learning what you did? What was the point of living? That right there should signal that "something is up"... as in God, up in Heaven.:D See Sb129? That's the type of lighthearted pun that I am attracted to.

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The problem with Pascal's wager is that the assumption that belief in God is sufficient to get one into heaven is false. Demons believe and are condemned.

 

An intellectual belief simply in God's existence is not sufficient for entry into heaven. One must agree with God and accept His terms for salvation. After all, heaven is a place where we voluntarily give up our "right" to sin, to spend eternity with the Holy One, who will turn us into perfect creatures because of our desires to be such on earth.

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the god the bible describes is a megalomaniac monster. why would any right thinking individual want to love any kind of force that demands obsequiousness with threats of eternal torture. the very act of loving such a hideous thing is morally repugnant on its face.

 

religion promotes immorality in the following ways

 

a) it sacrifices reality and concern over temporal affairs for a fantasy of salvation

 

b) it conditions people to view the world from a sycophantic perspective...this has led to all kinds of problems like idolizing other human beings such as hitler to idolizings secular ideolgies such as communism

 

c) and this may be the worst..it takes away the beauty of the concept of authentic true selflessness and replaces it with vulgar selfishness and the hope for personal gain

 

its more than high time for society to get beyond religion once and for all

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But to take your line of thinking further, one must then decide which god to pray to in order to ask him for help in which god to pray to. For example, if I decide that Odin is the right one and pray to him for help but he is not the right one, then I will receive no aid in my "soul-searching."

 

And then you would know that was the wrong choice.

 

Notice, too, that sitting and thinking about something and not investigating is no way to determine truth. Would you see a doctor who said, "I went home and thought about your broken arm all night, and this is what we should do."?

 

He actually might come up with a good treatment option...lol.

 

 

 

Again, incorrect. There is no way that you studied every religion on Earth before you made your decision, simply because you have already arrived at one. Did you honestly consider Naturism, or Polynesian Island religions? Did you study the ins and outs of Mormonism or Islam to any degree? The fact is you chose Christianity because you live in the West (I assume this because you seem fluent in English) and that makes the most sense because of your culture. The vast majority choose the same religion as your parents. If you had been born in Yemen, you'd be a Muslim.

 

I am aware of the beliefs of other religions... I have a father who is on the fence about his faith, a Buddhist step-mother, and a Muslim childhood friend. Yes, I was saved at a young age (my mother is a Christian), but I have continued to follow Christianity by choice... I am not forced, and hearing about other religions has only affirmed my decision.

 

As far as the bet goes, how do you know that is how a god would react? Consider what god says about graven images and having no other gods and being jealous. Clearly, the god of the Bible does not accept belief in other gods as "ok". In fact, that is central to the doctrine of your faith. The very god you assert is the One True God doesn't accept that. Why should the others be any different?

 

I think there is a misunderstanding... I never said that God thinks belief in another god is okay or that graven images are okay. That is why I do not like arguing religion... words and thoughts are twisted, even accidently (I do not believe that was your purpose).

 

In not accepting any of them (I only reject one more god than you do, by the way), I am at least ethical and living without fear. As Russell said, "If I die and God does exist and asks me why I didn't worship him, I will reply, 'Not enough evidence.'"...

And then, he will go to hell.

 

 

 

...I watch these same programs, and they do not mean what you think they mean. Jesus may or may not have existed, but even if you could prove someone named Jesus actually lived you'd be no closer to proving he was god than you are now. I am not 100% sure about anything, as i am always open to new evidence. In many cases, the chance of there being such evidence is so close to zero that worrying about it is silly.

 

You may have interpreted them differently, but that does not mean that they do not mean what I am saying... plus we could be talking about two completely different shows... I have see the type I am talking about and then some that say otherwise... talk about contradicting... men are so confused... they NEED God.

 

If there is all this evidence (which there isn't) why do we need faith? I believe that there is a Sun because I can see it and feel its heat. If that were so for the Biblegod, everyone would believe as a matter of course. But they obviously don't. More theists don't believe in Him than do. And they are praying for guidance all the time, and that guidance seems to lead them to Islam.

 

There is evidence, but we still need faith. Faith even when others tell us we are wrong, faith because we did not live during the time period that Jesus did, etc.

 

"Blessed are those who do not see, but still believe."

 

 

Then why did you respond to this thread at all? And don't others who are possibly lost need to hear your testimony?

 

You answered your own question. I respond only in hopes that a person who is confused will read and believe.

 

 

 

Pray and ask him to explain what an argument ad baculum is, and see what anwser you get. Then, look it up and see if the answers are the same.

 

You are quite the personality.

 

 

 

Sorry for the quick response. I have matters to attend to very soon, but wanted to respond to you first.

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Well said, Quankanne. If you learn valuable things throughout life, and then when you die, there is nothing, what was the point in learning what you did? What was the point of living?

A chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg.

 

 

That right there should signal that "something is up"...

That agony - the anguish over the possiblity that life has no "larger" meaning other than the propagation of the species - is exactly why I think it likely that all religions are creations of man, to fill a void and soothe that anguish.

 

Incidentally, if living life without belief of a reward in the hereafter is as risky as it sounds (if "hell" awaits...) then isn't living that life in a moral and ethical way the ultimate "bet placed on the table?" It's kind of obvious to act good and moral when you believe you will be rewarded for it, and punished if you stray. It's a whole different thing living life in a moral way - without believing in a religious carrot or stick to keep you there - just because you believe it's the right way to live.

 

Complaints about "well, then, how do you know what is 'moral'?" are respectfully acknowledged....

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why would any right thinking individual want to love any kind of force that demands obsequiousness with threats of eternal torture. the very act of loving such a hideous thing is morally repugnant on its face.
I'm impressed! Not many people can use the word, 'obsequiousness' that well in a sentence.....no matter how false your statement above actually is.....

 

You see, if you are a true believer, these acts of obedience are automatic, there are no threats to be concerned about.......

religion promotes immorality in the following ways
I suppose this statement could be true with most religions. And that is precisely why I'm a Christian...
its more than high time for society to get beyond religion once and for all
"and get BEHIND Christ", is how I'd cap your sentence off......but that's just me.....;)
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The problem with Pascal's wager is that the assumption that belief in God is sufficient to get one into heaven is false. Demons believe and are condemned.

 

An intellectual belief simply in God's existence is not sufficient for entry into heaven. One must agree with God and accept His terms for salvation. After all, heaven is a place where we voluntarily give up our "right" to sin, to spend eternity with the Holy One, who will turn us into perfect creatures because of our desires to be such on earth.

 

Moose, you are very right. I do not believe in Pascal's wager... I was just using it for arguments sake in another thread... the good thing about that theory is that it gets you thinking just a little bit, and that was my only intention. Now it is being taken as something I was serious about, which I'm not. As far as the whole "placing the bet" metaphor, I better clear this up now before people say that is how I became a Christian. Again, that was more of a thought provoking statement... to get the reader to wonder; "what if I am wrong about atheism?" I do not believe in randomly picking a religion. God knows our heart and whether you truly believe, or were just wagering on the chance that there is a hell. I truly believe in God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity. Jesus is the Son of God, my Lord and Savior. My lesson in this is to not say things in an offhand sort of way, or people (who don't know me) might actually take me seriously!

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The problem with Pascal's wager is that the assumption that belief in God is sufficient to get one into heaven is false. Demons believe and are condemned.

 

An intellectual belief simply in God's existence is not sufficient for entry into heaven. One must agree with God and accept His terms for salvation. After all, heaven is a place where we voluntarily give up our "right" to sin, to spend eternity with the Holy One, who will turn us into perfect creatures because of our desires to be such on earth.

 

Moose, you bring up an excellent point. One would think that an omnipotent god would easily see through belief through pragmatism.

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yes they do, you just havent taken the right drugs

 

:confused: Where can I get these drugs??

 

 

that's an interesting viewpoint ... because as a believer, I feel that *I* am getting more out of the reality of life because of that added "oomph" I call God ...

 

Thats great, I am glad you do! Many good people derive alot of comfort and happiness from having god in their lives, and who am I to deprive them of that? Its just not for me. In addition, the extremists and fundamentalists give it a bad rap.... and you know what they say about bad publicity...

 

does this mean non-believers are then apes? :D:D:D
We are ALL apes baby.... some of us have more characteristics than others...;)

 

Jinnah, quankanne and I have argued this one out a couple of times- we have agreed to disagree and called a truce a while back... She has alot of good stuff to say. I think you do too (mostly!) - we'll have to agree to disagree too. BTW, there is a little button with a + sign on it at the bottom of each post, click each post you want to quote thats how you multiquote.

 

My point exactly. And so we created him.
Precisely.

 

Hey Moose- haven't seen you around for a while... Hope things at home are going well.

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One must agree with God and accept His terms for salvation. After all, heaven is a place where we voluntarily give up our "right" to sin, to spend eternity with the Holy One, who will turn us into perfect creatures because of our desires to be such on earth.

And so was this opportunity not made available to the millions of thinking human beings who lived and died before the time of Christ? Are they doomed to hell, or will they spend eternity in purgatory?

 

I apologize if these questions have been hashed over before, but I don't usually engage in these types of discussions...

 

You see, if you are a true believer, these acts of obedience are automatic, there are no threats to be concerned about.......

.... which is not to say that no threats exist... Seems to me that eternal damnation in hell is probably considered to be somewhat of a threat in most people's hearts and minds.

 

But as with totalitarian governments, as long as you believe and have unquestioning loyalty, you have nothing to worry about. It just sounds like it's when you question - not just asking questions, but if you possibly discover or investigate true questions or concerns in your heart (if the acts of obedience are not "automatic"?) - then, there certainly appear to be "threats to be concerned about."

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Jinnah, quankanne and I have argued this one out a couple of times- we have agreed to disagree and called a truce a while back... She has alot of good stuff to say. I think you do too (mostly!) - we'll have to agree to disagree too. BTW, there is a little button with a + sign on it at the bottom of each post, click each post you want to quote thats how you multiquote.

 

 

Yes, we can agree to disagree. :) I really don't like arguing religion because it can create unnecessary tension. Thanks for the tip with the quotes... I saw that little button, but I must have clicked it twice.

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I apologize for the generalization I am about to make but my intent is not meant to offend but to try to understand this. From my perspective, it seems like people that do not believe in any kind of God have essentially made themselves their own God and therefore do have some sort of a belief in God that being themselves.

 

I sincerely do not understand the beliefs of non-belief that an athiest has anymore than an athiest understands my beliefs in God.

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All religions insist that they are right, but not all of them require blind belief and obedience. Religions must be looked upon as philosophy, something to think about, to see if what they are talking about makes any sense based on reality. A belief can only be true if you proved it with your own experience. And then it wouldn't be a belief, it would be knowledge. Christian belief is not based on knowledge, it's based on a book and on assumptions, on blind faith. Any testimonies that believers have are just hallucinations and a result of an overactive imagination. If it didn't come from within as a result of your own experience, it's not true.

 

As far as life after death, there is no proof that life after death doesn't exist. We see how other people's bodies die, but we cannot see the invisible, we cannot see that, which is not a body, so we cannot know what happens after. If you were observant enough, you might notice, that we are not only a body. We can observe our own body and feel separate from it. It's the same as the driver and the car are not one single unit.

 

We definitely need to investigate, but that doesn't apply only to the ouside reality. We must investigate who we are. One of the tools for that is meditation. Both atheists and Christians are looking for the meaning outside themselves. Atheists are more honest, they don't accept ideas without testing them. Christians for the most part are Christians, because they were born in a family of Christians, they never even gave thought as to why they are Christians. I would call that being incapable of critical thinking. An automatic obedience is nothing to be proud of, that just means you are not intelligent enough, that you don't trust your own perceptions of reality and yourself. It also means that you are scared, Christianity is based on fear.

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I sincerely do not understand the beliefs of non-belief that an athiest has anymore than an athiest understands my beliefs in God.

 

If that is so, then why make a preposterous assumption such as this:

 

 

From my perspective, it seems like people that do not believe in any kind of God have essentially made themselves their own God and therefore do have some sort of a belief in God that being themselves.

 

Not believing in A god means exactly that... I haven't stepped up to fill the "void" in my own life, because there is NO void. It really is that simple.

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