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"Men" are weaker nowadays...


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Old 15th August 2016, 1:50 AM   #16
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Hmmmm, you think?

My parents encouraged me to strengthen the nerve in my head and not the muscles in my arms used to do b*tch labor. My grandfather would roll over in his grave if he heard me complaining that I'd rather go back to busting my ass in the field. He'd feel like a failure. Didn't your parents encourage you all to try to work smarter not harder? What did they work so hard to send you to college for?
I am all for 'working smart' (and you would be hard-pressed to find a job more cerebral and sedentary than mine), but it is unfortunately a fact that the human body needs SOME physical activity to stay healthy. It's just the way it has evolved. And no, we will never evolve to accommodate technology, because natural selection has largely stopped due to modern medicine (not saying that's a bad thing, but again, fact). So we HAVE to put in some time to exercise and move around even if technology exists to make it unnecessary.

Don't look at me, I didn't invent our bodies, it's just the way things are.
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Old 15th August 2016, 1:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by OneLov View Post
Hmmmm, you think?

My parents encouraged me to strengthen the nerve in my head and not the muscles in my arms used to do b*tch labor. My grandfather would roll over in his grave if he heard me complaining that I'd rather go back to busting my ass in the field. He'd feel like a failure. Didn't your parents encourage you all to try to work smarter not harder? What did they work so hard to send you to college for?
Working smarter is fine. I like smart. But I think people ought to be well-rounded. If a person is in the prime of life and has a BMI of 30 for no reason beyond laziness and a sedentary job, that's just unacceptable in my opinion. What happens when the copy machine at the office needs to be moved, or the car needs a tire change, or something else goes wrong? It's not only about appearance, it is about capability. In the same vein, I find it unacceptable for people to take on a brute force, manual labor type job and let their brains go to waste. We have both body and mind for a reason.

As for my parents, dad drank the money and mom stripped. I would rather they had busted their butts in the field - it probably would have done them good. There's lots of worse things than a little manual labor.
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Old 15th August 2016, 2:28 AM   #18
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I think ideals have changed, and I think the purpose of fitness has changed. And not just for men either.

As another poster mentioned, the "ideal man" of today looks more muscular than the decades ago. But what are those muscles actually used for? I see guys who lift and work out to look good, but beyond that do they do any REAL work? I have a good friend who works on his land in the country. He's not the "ideal" and never really was. No six-pack there. But he's outdoors working every day, slinging sacks of feed, fixing stuff, and just generally being manly. As a teenager when we were together, he could certainly hold his own in a fight and I'm sure he still can. So I think health and fitness ought to be defined more about capability and less about looks.
I have been working out for a long time now. I know what you mean. I see some cut up fools in the gym, doing rep after rep with light azz weight, just because it makes their biceps look big. Comparatively, I look a bit out of shape, not so well defined, but I outlift most of the guys in my gym, all but the biggest steroid users, anyway. Those guys are in there working out to look pretty for the ladies. I started working out when I was young, because I was into martial arts and I wanted to build strength. I still lift for strength and not pretty muscles. Just makes more sense to me. To each their own.

I bought some furniture not long ago with my lady friend. The box it came in said "team lift" on it, and it was pretty big. When I went to lift it, my lady pointed out the team lift notification and asked if I needed help. Ha. I am my own team. I guess the more modern guy would have to ask his lady to help him carry stuff.
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Old 15th August 2016, 6:37 AM   #19
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I have always been a believer that a human body needs to be used(and sometimes even abused) physically to lead a healthy and long life..Understand I am not talking about abuse by way of drugs, alcohol, poor eating etc...

I love weight training, but that alone does not necessarily make someone strong...Even though I own my own company, the type of business I am in requires that I lift and move heavy items(up to 200#+) regularly..Additionally. we work in cramped conditions at times that force us to do odd movements in weird positions..And I have been doing it this way for decades..Heck, take a typical 200 + lb gym guy and he wont be able to do some of the stuff me and my guys do...and most of my guys don't exercise outside of work..

Without this type of repetitive movement and daily work, the body starts breaking down...Loss of muscle, inter connective tissues and cartilage deteriorates and there are even circulatory problems...For men, its also well documented that a sedentary life will erode testosterone levels...Which has a variety of physical problems associated,. more than the obvious limp dick...

My hands are like tools...When I go to the gym, even stronger guys are amazed at how I can take 45# plates and handle them like CD's....For me, its not about vanity at all...I like being strong...I like knowing that my body is powerful and it gives me a feeling of great inner confidence..And I know the benefits as get to experience it on a daily basis..

The problem is likely to even get worse as time goes by...It wont affect me and I dont have any sons...so...

TFY
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Old 15th August 2016, 9:29 AM   #20
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I am all for 'working smart' (and you would be hard-pressed to find a job more cerebral and sedentary than mine), but it is unfortunately a fact that the human body needs SOME physical activity to stay healthy. It's just the way it has evolved. And no, we will never evolve to accommodate technology, because natural selection has largely stopped due to modern medicine (not saying that's a bad thing, but again, fact). So we HAVE to put in some time to exercise and move around even if technology exists to make it unnecessary.

Don't look at me, I didn't invent our bodies, it's just the way things are.
I'm not saying that the body doesn't need physical activity. I'm in better shape than the vast majority of people. I used to be a personal trainer, so I'm not arguing with importance of being in shape. My body fat percentage is about 10-12%. I'm beyond satisfied with my bench press and my physique.

I'm responding to the article, and the conclusion the OP is trying to draw from it. Because the muscles used to grip hand tools in the general population are generally weaker, society is going to hell in a hand basket. A real man breaks down his joints overloading them with the same repitious movements, but he has strong hands.

Conclusions that Chicken Little would draw aren't appealing to me. Because in my experience, they fundamentally aren't true. We're overall healthier and stronger than we've ever been. The average person didn't even see 60 one hundred years ago. Now, the average person lives into his/her 80s. So we, on average, have added 25 years to our lives in only 100 years time. As a whole, our species will continue to advance and make improvements over previous generations.

Anyone ever see "No Country For Old Men?" The world's not getting worse; it's always been bad. We're just getting older.
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Last edited by OneLov; 15th August 2016 at 9:35 AM..
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Old 15th August 2016, 10:11 AM   #21
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I'm not saying that the body doesn't need physical activity. I'm in better shape than the vast majority of people. I used to be a personal trainer, so I'm not arguing with importance of being in shape. My body fat percentage is about 10-12%. I'm beyond satisfied with my bench press and my physique.

I'm responding to the article, and the conclusion the OP is trying to draw from it. Because the muscles used to grip hand tools in the general population are generally weaker, society is going to hell in a hand basket. A real man breaks down his joints overloading them with the same repitious movements, but he has strong hands.

Conclusions that Chicken Little would draw aren't appealing to me. Because in my experience, they fundamentally aren't true. We're overall healthier and stronger than we've ever been. The average person didn't even see 60 one hundred years ago. Now, the average person lives into his/her 80s. So we, on average, have added 25 years to our lives in only 100 years time. As a whole, our species will continue to advance and make improvements over previous generations.

Anyone ever see "No Country For Old Men?" The world's not getting worse; it's always been bad. We're just getting older.
I both agree and disagree with you. I agree that the OP is making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill re: the hand tools, and I agree that people are living longer on average. But they are living longer not because they are healthier - it is because cures or at least treatment exists for many things that would have otherwise killed a person quite quickly "in the good ol' days" (and also a host of other non-health related reasons, like it being, quite rightly so, illegal to order a bunch of peasants beheaded because they didn't produce sufficient goods). I think in terms of 'health' we have been quite stagnant for a long time. We aren't exactly poisoning ourselves with plumbum or going weeks without bathing on a regular basis anymore, but obesity really is a medical issue.

Last edited by Elswyth; 15th August 2016 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 15th August 2016, 10:57 AM   #22
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What happens when the copy machine at the office needs to be moved,
You call RecentChange!
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Old 15th August 2016, 11:08 AM   #23
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I both agree and disagree with you. I agree that the OP is making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill re: the hand tools, and I agree that people are living longer on average. But they are living longer not because they are healthier - it is because cures or at least treatment exists for many things that would have otherwise killed a person quite quickly "in the good ol' days" (and also a host of other non-health related reasons, like it being, quite rightly so, illegal to order a bunch of peasants beheaded because they didn't produce sufficient goods). I think in terms of 'health' we have been quite stagnant for a long time. We aren't exactly poisoning ourselves with plumbum or going weeks without bathing on a regular basis anymore, but obesity really is a medical issue.
And we really haven't seen yet what the quality of life will be for some of these folks as they age...My guess is that they will be spending a good deal of their adult lives in doctor's office's, having joint replacements, and a variety of other ailments..

I say use it..... or lose it....

TFY
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Old 15th August 2016, 11:12 AM   #24
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but obesity really is a medical issue.
But that's only in the US. Let's look at underdeveloped countries. Access to clean drinking water and better nutrition has allowed people to work more. If someone is healthier and not coming down with/recovering from "x" illness, he/she has more opportunity to work and provide for his/her family.

Why are people getting taller? I'm 6'4". My dad is 5'10" and my mom is 5'4". It's probably a combination of factors, but one of those factors is children have better access to nutrition when they're young. How did the Dutch become so tall in only a few generations? Cheese. Access to quality protein, and they, on average, spent less time sick when their bodies were growing.

So, yes, the US brings the individual average health/physical fitness down a bit. But the data from the rest of the world brings it up and off the chart.

We have to dispel the notion that skinnier always means healthier. A lot of skinny people who smoked and ate trans fats died from massive heart attacks before age 70. I agree obese is unhealthy but so is smoking and believing all fat is equal.

Cancer will soon overtake heart disease as no. 1 cause of death in US. Cancer is a disease of age. Think about the implications of that statistic.

Last edited by OneLov; 15th August 2016 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 15th August 2016, 12:38 PM   #25
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I have been working out for a long time now. I know what you mean. I see some cut up fools in the gym, doing rep after rep with light azz weight, just because it makes their biceps look big. Comparatively, I look a bit out of shape, not so well defined, but I outlift most of the guys in my gym, all but the biggest steroid users, anyway. Those guys are in there working out to look pretty for the ladies. I started working out when I was young, because I was into martial arts and I wanted to build strength. I still lift for strength and not pretty muscles. Just makes more sense to me. To each their own.

I bought some furniture not long ago with my lady friend. The box it came in said "team lift" on it, and it was pretty big. When I went to lift it, my lady pointed out the team lift notification and asked if I needed help. Ha. I am my own team. I guess the more modern guy would have to ask his lady to help him carry stuff.
I'm not a fitness or weight-training guru by any stretch but if I'm not mistaken the basic premise of what you're talking about is core strength. I don't have big muscles (lol) but I do have a very strong core due to certain regular conditioning activity. Bc of that, even w/out the muscles, I feel generally rather strong. And conversely I could see how someone who just pimps out a certain small muscle group in the arms or w/e could be generally weak while still having muscles. (I've actually run into those types before who have big arms like say Ryan Gosling but if you give them a good shove from the base up they go pinwheeling.)
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Old 15th August 2016, 12:42 PM   #26
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Men are weaker. With guns around, there is no real need to bulk up or train to combat a physical threat.


It's much more likely that I will be given a divorce petition/get sued/lose my job/car accident than it is that I would be placed into a physical altercation that truly threatened my life.


Based on the nature of the threat and potential negative impact on my life, preparing mentally to protect my family is more about financials and legalities than it is about spear-hunting wild boar to ensure the family had food.


But if we're looking at the average loss of muscle as a genetic trait passed down by generations, than I'd imagine that my kids will be a lot more astute as using computers/electronics based on my intense use of them and even physically weaker than I am (compared to my father). After all, the changes in environment that impact me on a genetic level that would prepare a future generation's adaption end at the day of procreation.
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Old 15th August 2016, 12:46 PM   #27
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But that's only in the US. Let's look at underdeveloped countries. Access to clean drinking water and better nutrition has allowed people to work more. If someone is healthier and not coming down with/recovering from "x" illness, he/she has more opportunity to work and provide for his/her family.

Why are people getting taller? I'm 6'4". My dad is 5'10" and my mom is 5'4". It's probably a combination of factors, but one of those factors is children have better access to nutrition when they're young. How did the Dutch become so tall in only a few generations? Cheese. Access to quality protein, and they, on average, spent less time sick when their bodies were growing.

So, yes, the US brings the individual average health/physical fitness down a bit. But the data from the rest of the world brings it up and off the chart.

We have to dispel the notion that skinnier always means healthier. A lot of skinny people who smoked and ate trans fats died from massive heart attacks before age 70. I agree obese is unhealthy but so is smoking and believing all fat is equal.

Cancer will soon overtake heart disease as no. 1 cause of death in US. Cancer is a disease of age. Think about the implications of that statistic.
Trust me, you're preaching to the choir here. I agree with most of the above, except that obesity is on the rise in most countries and not just the US (though the US does indisputably lead that chart). There are a multitude of reasons for this.

All I'm saying is that I don't think our longer life expectancy is due to healthier habits. IMO it's mainly due to medical and technological advancements, and increasing social equality (in many countries, not all).
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Old 15th August 2016, 1:21 PM   #28
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Men are weaker. With guns around, there is no real need to bulk up or train to combat a physical threat.


But if we're looking at the average loss of muscle as a genetic trait passed down by generations, than I'd imagine that my kids will be a lot more astute as using computers/electronics based on my intense use of them and even physically weaker than I am (compared to my father). After all, the changes in environment that impact me on a genetic level that would prepare a future generation's adaption end at the day of procreation.
So is muscle size dependent on a species need to beat the snot out of its kind?

To me, the studies overall conclusion was a stretch. Then when OP went even further by suggesting it proved that all modern men are weak and lazy--I had to say something.

Why can't it prove that OP has an unreasonable perception of men because she's attempting to use reasoning that is irrational and illogical?

Why can't this all just be a matter of prescription? How do you know you're weaker than your dad? It's impossible to ever travel back in time to find out. But I am suggesting this all has to do with perception.

I remember in middle school; the kids in high school looked so much more mature than high school students today. But it's a logical fallacy to say THEY (at least the vast majority of high school students) ARE physically less mature. The only thing that changed is my perception.

Last edited by OneLov; 15th August 2016 at 1:30 PM..
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Old 15th August 2016, 1:32 PM   #29
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I do a lot of functional weightlifting and none of the women I dated seem to be impressed with it. They would have still dated me even if I didn't weight lift. If all I had to do was to be fit and strong, than I'd have a lot of women to choose from. If it were only that easy. Why train so hard or even train at all when it seems like most women don't even value it that much?
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Old 15th August 2016, 2:30 PM   #30
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Guys....

This is not about kicking someone's ass or attracting women....Or even being ripped....Heck just about anyone can get ripped..You could have less muscle mass than the typical woman and be ripped...

It's about having a functionally strong body...A "real world" functionally strong body...The type where if you need to move something, you actually can...People with real world strength actually even seem to move better than others....They walk with more of a purpose and dont slouch..True of male or female...

Oh, but if we are talking about women and what they like, they'd probably go for a guy with powerful hands and massive and veiny forearms over a guy with cute smile and a pair of noodles...

Technology may evolve, but some things don't really change..

TFY
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