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can't accept his drinking habits.


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On this topic again. :( I am having a bad day in regards to bf's drinking and smoking habits. He drinks everyday, 2-5 drinks a day (lately it's been more 5 then 2) and I hate it and I don't know why I hate it. We talked last week and he basically forced me to say that yes, according to me he is an alcoholic and his drinking habits scare me -not for how he is in the present but for what it might mean for the future. He even said, fine then, I'm alcoholic.

 

He doesn't change mood, doesn't change his attitude towards me, it doesn't affect his capacity to do his work. The only thing is that he smells of alcohol and that grosses me out - but it likely grosses me out because of the fact that his habits bother me. The sound of liquid pouring out of a bottle drives me nuts. But he sees no problems with his current level of consumption and so, therefore, doesn't feel he needs to change his habits.

 

There's something about it that's linked to the fact that when he drinks and smokes (cigarettes) it makes me feel like he doesn't take care of himself and doesn't take care of us.

 

It makes me wonder if maybe the best thing to do is leave him, since I can't accept it and he doesn't see his drinking as a problem. I would be passing up on someone who is otherwise fanstastic for me - but like I said, his chronic drinking is becoming a chronic issue for me.

 

I feel like I have to accept him as he is and that it certainly isn't my place to tell him to stop drinking. He's a grown man. Yet I can't explain how powerless his habits make me feel - and certainly can't explain it to him. He does get self-defensive on this topic.

 

I've been crying all day, when he's not around. I don't know what advice I am looking for. Maybe just some guidance to sort out my thoughts and support. And I mean, what do you think, does 5 drinks a day an alcoholic make?

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Yes, 2, 5, 10 drinks a day, when it's every day, is alcoolism...

 

My first ex was like that.. 3-4 drinks every night.. rye and coke.. for years...

 

He said he could stop anytime.. but never did... I knew he couldn't.

 

I hate alcool with a passion.. I don't drink.. so this would be a huge deal breaker for me.. In my case, I know where it comes from.. my father..

 

I will never ever date an alcoholic.. I know that for sure... and I can't stand smokers...

 

I don't even want to meet them if they smoke..

 

I don't have any advice for you.. other than if you can't stand it.. then it's time to tell him.. to quit completely... if not.. then move on.

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He drank before you started dating, right? Perhaps you just didn't see how much?

 

Well, this is who he is, Kam. You say his drinking doesn't change the way he is with you or acts in your relationship, but it does. Without the booze, he wouldn't be the same dude. Granted, there are times when he's been dead sober in your presence, but within your relationship you only know him as (I hate to say it, but you're right) an alcoholic. You don't know him as a man who lives a sober life, or a life of moderation. If he were to curtail his drinking, he'd be a different person. That different person may, or may not, be someone you'd still love...maybe even more, who knows.

 

I agree with you that, while it might not be a "problem" now, it certainly might be down the road. So it seems your only recourse is (1) accept it, (2) end it. You know you can't make an alcoholic change - they have to want to change on their own.

 

Have you talked to him about really, really not liking it? And how it makes you consider not continuing with the relationship?

 

Are either of his parents alcoholics?

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Lizzie, I take it your father was an alcoholic. One of my fears is rooted in what it means for children to be raised around so much drinking. What was it like for you?

 

He drank before you started dating, right? Perhaps you just didn't see how much?

 

Well, this is who he is, Kam. You say his drinking doesn't change the way he is with you or acts in your relationship, but it does. Without the booze, he wouldn't be the same dude. Granted, there are times when he's been dead sober in your presence, but within your relationship you only know him as (I hate to say it, but you're right) an alcoholic. You don't know him as a man who lives a sober life, or a life of moderation. If he were to curtail his drinking, he'd be a different person. That different person may, or may not, be someone you'd still love...maybe even more, who knows.

 

I agree with you that, while it might not be a "problem" now, it certainly might be down the road. So it seems your only recourse is (1) accept it, (2) end it. You know you can't make an alcoholic change - they have to want to change on their own.

 

Have you talked to him about really, really not liking it? And how it makes you consider not continuing with the relationship?

 

Are either of his parents alcoholics?

 

Thanks SG, I find your reply incredibly helpful. You are right, - this is how I have always known him.

 

Talking about it is complicated, as you can guess. He feels judged. I never told him it makes me consider not continuing the relationship. I wouldn't say he knows I really really don't like it, but he knows it makes me feel powerless and that it scares me.

 

We had one major talk about it - one that actually ended up pretty well. At that time we had agreed that if we wanted us to work, I needed to be able to share my concerns about the role alcohol played in our lives.

 

Both his parents drink daily at both lunch and dinner. His two sibblings drink even more then he does (a lot of binging).

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Continuing on with my thoughts...

 

Alcoholism isn't a little problem. It's huge. It's a disease that tears families apart. My Ex is the way he is largely in part due to an alcoholic father who believed he was doing a good job by drinking at night when the kids were asleep (:rolleyes:). My mother's father/grammy's first husband was also an alcoholic. Both men slowly withdrew from their families and were absent in spirit. Both my mother and Ex have abandonment issues of their own from having emotionally detached/absent parents. My mother is particularly scarred.

 

My live-in BF of about 5 years ago was also an alcoholic, but he didn't drink every day. He just didn't know his limits. Once he started, he couldn't stop. He made a fool of himself as time went on and his drinking escalated, and once hit me (literally, on accident, with the bathroom door). I realize now that he loved his booze more than he ever loved me.

 

No one deserves that.

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Both his parents drink daily at both lunch and dinner. His two sibblings drink even more then he does (a lot of binging).

 

You have one answer then: this isn't going to stop, and just might get worse.

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I think that I will gather more information before I decide anything. My aunt is married to an alcoholic - I will go talk to her.

 

I will also contact my local Al-Anon chapters.

 

I think part of my issue is the choice. Feeling like I have a choice whether or not I accept it. Deep down I want to learn to accept it and stay with him. He is otherwise a fantastic partner, very supportive, sensitive to my needs, energetic, a great provider who makes me laugh.

 

And yes, I sometimes feel he loves his booze more then he loves me. hmmm... maybe I'm just jealous of the booze.

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sensitive to my needs

 

Okay, this really isn't true... you know that, right? The booze controls him, K. He doesn't have the ability to put your needs ahead of the booze... at least not right now.

 

You're in a different time zone, but alcoholism is the subject of Dr. Phil that's starting right now...

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You have one answer then: this isn't going to stop, and just might get worse.

 

His drinking getting worse is my fear exactly.

 

When we talked he asked me how/if his drinking affected me and I answered that it didn't. I mentioned the time when he chose to drink his troubles away and he promised that wouldn't happen again... (we'll see)...

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When we talked he asked me how/if his drinking affected me and I answered that it didn't. I mentioned the time when he chose to drink his troubles away and he promised that wouldn't happen again... (we'll see)...

 

Another untruth, Kam. It does affect you! It bothers you enough to question ending your relationship. :( If you're not being honest with him (and you don't even have an addiction), can you trust him to keep his word when there's a substance that controls him?

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Okay, this really isn't true... you know that, right? The booze controls him, K. He doesn't have the ability to put your needs ahead of the booze... at least not right now.

 

You're in a different time zone, but alcoholism is the subject of Dr. Phil that's starting right now...

 

I don't have cable...

 

In jan he stopped drinking for a few weeks to 'cleanse' himself because he had indulged over the vacations and to show me that he had control and that my needs came first. He handle it pretty well. Sweated like crazy the first few days. I pointed it out but he denied it was alcohol withdrawal.

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Another untruth, Kam. It does affect you! It bothers you enough to question ending your relationship. :( If you're not being honest with him (and you don't even have an addiction), can you trust him to keep his word when there's a substance that controls him?

 

 

Ok, what I actually answered was that no I couldn't think of any ways in which it affected me, except that it scared me.

 

I guess you're right. I need to tell him that it makes me consider leaving the R. I guess I will wait until he is sober to do this.

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Kamille, I'm wondering if cultural background should be factored in here.

 

I am in no way saying that this IS or ISN'T a problem...but it occurred to me, while reading your thread, your SO is French (I recall reading this in some other thread a while ago). I know the French can be very passionate about their alcohol (especially wine). Heck, most Europeans I know (the French, the Danish, etc) treat their alcohol differently...their relationship with alcohol is different.

 

I'm not sure what your cultural background/upbringing is, but do you think that your SO simply doesn't see alcohol the way you do?

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Prodigal Princess

I agree with Ocean-Blue. Where I live, drinking is a big part of our culture and 2 - 5 drinks every day is pretty normal.

 

I think its pointless trying to label him as an alcoholic because in the end that is something for him to decide.

 

Obviously you each have very different views on drinking. The question is - who is willing to compromise?

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Kamille, I'm wondering if cultural background should be factored in here.

 

I am in no way saying that this IS or ISN'T a problem...but it occurred to me, while reading your thread, your SO is French (I recall reading this in some other thread a while ago). I know the French can be very passionate about their alcohol (especially wine). Heck, most Europeans I know (the French, the Danish, etc) treat their alcohol differently...their relationship with alcohol is different.

 

I'm not sure what your cultural background/upbringing is, but do you think that your SO simply doesn't see alcohol the way you do?

 

I agree with Ocean-Blue. Where I live, drinking is a big part of our culture and 2 - 5 drinks every day is pretty normal.

 

I think its pointless trying to label him as an alcoholic because in the end that is something for him to decide.

 

Obviously you each have very different views on drinking. The question is - who is willing to compromise?

 

Well we ended up talking last night, and I'm not very proud of how I brought up the subject, but we did managed, in the end to minimally feel like we understood each other.

 

Yes I think alcool is a dayly part of his culture and upbringing, where in mine it is generally reserved for high shcool rites of passage, all of college and then social events or special dinners.

 

He doesn't feel like he is dependant on alcool and at first questionned my reasons for hating it so much that it would make me question the relationship. He wants to know why his habits are a problem for me (because otherwise they don't create any other problems in his life). Tough question - but I repeated pretty much what I said here. It scares me: it makes me fear he is or will become dependant and it makes me fear for his health. He had counter arguments for it all, but he eventually recognized that my fears didn't need to be 'rational' to be validated.

 

I recognized that they were prompting me to make wild allegations.

 

He agreed to try and ease up a little bit on alcool, for me. I don't know how I feel about the "for me" part. My whole angle is that he sould be doing it for him - but since he really believes and is asking me to believe that he doesn't have an addiction, then maybe the dynamic is different.

 

I mean, I certainly don't want him to resent me, but if he says he isn't addicted, then changing his habits shouldn't be a big deal.

 

I also feel like I need to learn a lot more about alcool. I always relied on pretty common ideas about dependance: if you drink everyday and you drink alone, then you have a problem.

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I agree with Ocean-Blue. Where I live, drinking is a big part of our culture and 2 - 5 drinks every day is pretty normal.

 

 

His drinking being part of his culture doesn't remove the fact that he has an actively drinking problem and most likely an Alcoholic.

Culture is only a reason someone drinks, it doesn't mean that his drinking is okay.

I think when a person is drinking to a point that it brings on negative issues or things into a person life then I believe they have a drinking problem.

 

The fact that he had the DT's tells you the real answer.. he is an Alcoholic..

 

Kamille..

 

The best piece of advice I have for you is to get your butt in an Alanon meeting..

There are people there that can help you deal with this..

 

You need to take control back of your own life and Alanon can show you how to do that..Learning what behaviors of yours enable him to continue his drinking behavior..

It will also teach you how to separate the person from the Alcohol...

 

I wish I could quote Blind Otter.. She has some of the most wonderful posts when talking about how to decide if a person is an Alcoholic..

Maybe B_O will post on this thread...

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WHe agreed to try and ease up a little bit on alcool, for me.

 

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and a disease that is denial based..

The drinking of a drunk doesn't ease up for good.. sometimes a person can ease up due to family pressures but it is only a matter of time for the Alcoholism to become more important than his family..

 

Alcoholism tells the person that his drinking is okay.. it tells him that he can cut back even though in the end that will not be the result.

 

If you have a problem with his drinking then it is a problem..period...

He needs to see himself and understand his relationship with Alcohol in order for him to get some help..

 

An Alcoholic has to remove Alcohol from his/her life in order to get better.. He simply cannot just ease back...

Edited by Art_Critic
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Thanks AC, I take it sweating profusely can be considered a form of DT?

 

I will get in touch with Alanon. I'm thinking my aunt most likely knows a chapter.

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Google al anon, if nothing else. That's how I found my AA group - google to the rescue!

 

My opinion is in line with Art's just from my view of the issue as a recovering alcoholic. IMO alcoholism/dependency has nothing to do with how often or when he drinks - it's all about the individual's relationship with alcohol. It's about why they use it as much as when and how much. Alcoholism can also be associated with the obsession/preoccupation with alcohol and - here's the kicker when it comes to your SO - the inability to recognize negative effects of alcohol consumption.

 

IMO only alcoholics say things like "I can quit whenever I want" (this is a nonissue with those who don't have alcohol dependency issues). And alcoholics love their denial. They wallow in it. They often refuse to acknowledge that alcohol affects them at all! Which is a physical impossibility. It's a poison, it affects the body's systems, NO ONE is immune the the effects of alcohol.

 

I think alcoholism is a pervasive disease in this country.

 

THe thing about drinking that much, every day, is that there are serious consequences - but unless he goes out and drives, they will only manifest later in life. Cirrhosis of the liver, pancreatitis, epilepsy, polyneuropathy, alcoholic dementia, heart disease, increased chance of cancer, nutritional deficiencies, sexual dysfunction, and death from many sources are all longterm issues when it comes to excessive use. As with lung cancer - most addicts wait until it's simply too late to fix anything to actually stop. And that's the saddest part of all, I have to say.

 

Functional alcoholics are the hardest to treat because they hide their addiction so well.

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I'm still a bit in shocked and maybe a bit confused but we broke up.

 

Last night, after the night before's talk about him easing up on alcool, I was feeling in a good mood and was making a dinner for us and was super happy to see him when he came home. I felt lighthearted for the first time in a long time. He then says 'if you don't mind, tonight for xyz reasons, I will have beer but in exchange I won't drink tomorow or the day after '. I answered 'hmmm ok - I mean, that really is up to you. You say you can ease up on your drinking so it's up to you to decide how you do it'. I tried to stay chipper, but by the time the bottle of scotch came out, I felt angry, hurt, like I was fooling myself, like he was in denial, like nothing was going to change - ever.

 

He asked me what was wrong and I told him how I felt and why.

 

He said he thought we needed a break. He said he was tired of how rocky things were, couldn't believe that I was questionning everything we had over something so silly. I said that for me it really wasn't silly at all.

 

He eventually said something along the lines of the fact that I am selfish and only want him to change for my own benefits and because I want to impose my own moral codes and habits on him.

 

He then launched into a tyrade about feeling like he was interned in an insane asylum and more. That's when I got up and said, you know what, it's over.

 

I don't think either one of us is right or wrong, I just think our attitudes towards health and well-being make us incompatible.

 

I'm generally ok. I was as tired as him of me being on an emotional rollercoaster because I couldn't accept his habits.

 

I guess the only thing I question is whether I should have been more patient and given Alanon a chance. Although yesterday I was thinking of what a challenge it would be to tell him I was going to an Alanon meeting, since according to him he really isn't an alcoolic.

 

All my stuff is still at his place. I was going to go get it today while he was at work but I don't have the energy for it.

Edited by Kamille
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Ahh Kamille.. I'm sorry that it went down this road...

 

Don't second guess your decisions about giving it more time.. Alanon is for you and not him..

You are not the reason he drinks and accept no responsibility for his drinking..

 

He is clearly chosen the drink over the relationship.. So his relationship to Alcohol is more important.. ( as it is in ALL of us Alcoholics ).

Until he has his awakening and reaches his bottom he will not quit drinking..

 

If you get back together ( not saying you should.. but you never know ) make sure that you take a stand on the drinking that you feel comfortable with and also go to Alanon meetings to help you cope.

 

In my opinion.. and only my opinion I believe that you dodged a huge bullet.. I think your life was on the brink of becoming chaotic because of his drinking and he would've pulled you down into his whirlpool of drinking and when that happens it is very hard for a SO to get out at that point..

 

**Hugs**

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Wow, that is upsetting. IMO reducing your alcohol intake is a health issue, not you trying to change him. You want him to be alive and healthy for a long time, that's not a bad thing at all.

 

I'm sorry thinngs went down like that.....

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Alcohol is a big part of the culture here in America. Only the laws and infrastructure set up do not acknowledge how big it is. I quit drinking because of my second OWI arrest. The industry and the punishments for indulging in that industry do not seem sensible or fair in the United States so I have decided to give it up, until such a time that Society can get real about the issue.

 

I also know a guy who is an alcoholic (a former friend) by heredity. His girlfriend left him because his trips to the bar were more important to him than she was.

 

I think in general drinking is bad news. I definately know smoking is really bad news. You can find some other guy who doesn't use...they are out there. the one's who do...are really too much trouble.

 

And one last thing...Don't try and change him. I saw that one girl try and change my friend. You will only suffer a humiliating, traumatic defeat.

 

Just pack up and go.

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In my opinion.. and only my opinion I believe that you dodged a huge bullet.. I think your life was on the brink of becoming chaotic because of his drinking and he would've pulled you down into his whirlpool of drinking and when that happens it is very hard for a SO to get out at that point..

 

**Hugs**

 

Kam, I'm so sorry this is how things have ended up. Given how our relationships paced each others, I wanted one of us to come out on top. I truly wanted you to have the fairytale. :(

 

But I really do agree with AC. You were on the edge of misery, truly. It wasn't going to get any better, and the analogy of being pulled into a whirlpool of his drinking is so true. You escaped it, and have nothing but calm seas ahead of you (once you weather this storm, that is).

 

You know I'm here for you...

 

(((HUGS)))

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Thanks everyone - your kind words mean a lot to me. I got the chance to check replies rapidly yesterday afternoon and the sentence 'dodged a bullet' kept popping up in my head all day yesterday as I was riding the storm.

 

I have moments when I feel relieved to be out of what was becoming a nightmare. Then I have moments when I miss him. But I realize I was hoping against all hope that he wasn't an alcoholic and that this belief also made me hope he could change.

 

And it's true that alcohol is everywhere in our society. I told my closest friend about the break up and their initial reaction was: "normally I would say let's go out and get drunk but somehow it doesn't feel appropriate." At least it made me laugh.

 

Meanwhile I bet I know how he's dealing with the break up: dealing with it with the help of his good friend the bottle of scotch.

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