Gaslighting

[pureinheart]

A friend sent me this article today and have seen a lot of gas lighting and have experienced more than I'd like, so thought I'd share it for anyone who needs it...

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

 

Gaslighting is a tactic in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality. It works much better than you may think. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders. It is done slowly, so the victim doesn't realize how much they've been brainwashed. For example, in the movie Gaslight (1944), a man manipulates his wife to the point where she thinks she is losing her mind.

 

This article is very good BTW, one of the best I've seen concerning this matter...

[pureinheart]

Here's the follow-up article... it's just as good

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/are-gaslighters-aware-what-they-do

 

After the posting on my article Gaslighting: Know It to Identify It and Protect Yourself, I’ve received emails asking whether people who are gaslighting know that they are doing it. As I mentioned in the article, gaslighting is a pattern of manipulation tactics used by abusers, narcissists, dictators, and cult leaders in order to gain control over a person or people. The goal of gaslighting is to make the victim or victims question their own reality and subsequently depend more on the gaslighter.

 

Please post your experiences if you feel led to do so...

[Tayla]

Thanks for the links!

 

Informative to confirm it can be in group settings.

 

This has been experienced thru history. Govt and some closed societies.

Edited February 1, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[truthtripper]

I don't think people would be attracted to gaslighters, unless they were raised by/had close relations with one or more gaslighters in their childhood. No one appreciates liars/lies. When someone lies, this is a red flag. Dismissal of red flags and confusing behaviours, indicates that the victim has suffered this treatment before, it's familiar and thus normal to the victim-this is why they allow themselves to be manipulated by the gaslighter. We are attracted to the familiar, not to the unfamiliar.

[Hopeful714]

Thing is nobody knows their being gaslighed until they figure it out. If they figure it out. It's a crazy making thing.

 

Towards the end of my RS I was driving somewhere and saw the BF's vehicle at a corner convenience store. He had just gotten out of his car and was walking in.

 

Talked to him later in the day and said "hey, saw you walk in to so and so today". He said "wasn't me". I said yes it was, your vehicle was there and I described the exact clothes he was wearing. His reply: wasn't me.

 

Right then and there I knew I was being taken. Prior to this he was telling lies but I still couldn't figure out if he was being truthful or not. When I saw this with my very own eyes I KNEW I was being gaslight and it was over. For why the heck would someone try to hide something so normal...and if they did what else was being hidden.

[truthtripper]

Thing is nobody knows their being gaslighed until they figure it out. If they figure it out.

Some people can figure it out on the first meeting. The confusing behaviour is readily obvious to them and they instinctively keep their distance. Then there are others who may take years or decades to figure it out. This usually includes people who have been abused in childhood and are in denial about it or who acknowledge their childhood abuse but are in denial about it's negative impacts on their emotional health and therefore on their relationships. The latter would also make up those who never figure it out. They would have to suffer from extreme low self-worth and lack of self-awareness to remain in such toxic relationships.

[brigitte 1]

A friend sent me this article today and have seen a lot of gas lighting and have experienced more than I'd like, so thought I'd share it for anyone who needs it...

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

 

 

 

This article is very good BTW, one of the best I've seen concerning this matter...

 

Very good article. Thanks.

[Taramere]

I'm dealing professionally with a most insufferable individual who uses this technique. Or tries to. He's like a parody of a narcissist...except that he's not joking. When you see somebody like that in action, it brings home to you how sad and pathetic the individuals who employ these "manipulation" strategies are. It's the sort of thing you expect from a small child who needs to be given short, clear messages that this stuff doesn't work.

 

If somebody is still employing that crap on a regular basis in adulthood, they're probably always going to. The individual I'm thinking of is so far gone that you do have to pinch yourself at times as you think "am I dreaming or is he actually coming out with this crap?" I suppose in that sense, it's accomplishing the "making other people question their own reality" thing...but only because he's such a bad joke of a human being that it's hard to believe he's serious.

 

But even though he's over the top, I don't think the correct response to him differs much from the response you'd use to somebody who employs a bit more subtlety and intelligence in their attempts. Ignore, dismiss and don't bother defending yourself against ridiculous allegations unless some formal authority demands that you do (and in that context, keep any defences of yourself brief, unemotional and to the point).

 

Above all, don't be astonished by it. Unfortunately, there are just abusive people out there who do this and will keep doing it. Reacting with shock or outrage just shovels attention into their bottomless need for it. Keep your responses unexciting for them, and they'll probably look for other more reactive people to gaslight.

[todreaminblue]

I have had gas lighters around me since i was really young.... neggers ...manipulators......i feel sorry for them.....maybe i am a gas lighter myself and thats why i attract them......who knows...the thing is i know when i am being gas lighted...... because i feel a sense of confusion and slack of understanding every time.....and i think to myself crap.... negged again.....what can you do though when you actually care for gas lighters..when you love them when they are your closest friends and family....i see negging i see gas lighting...i choose to be the person who doesnt push those people who feel they need to use those tactics.... away...and ill keep trying to bring back the best in them that i also see....doesnt mean i am blind or does it mean i am dumb because i allow others to hurt me....i allow it...is an honest tell....i am not the one out of control....nor can anyone control me.....i choose...and i allow

 

 

eventually my spirit will just be all scar tissue and impenetrable thats my theory.....i can live with that...i have metal walls around my heart.......because along with hurt...i also learn.....things that are good for me to know.....like my spiritual capacity to stand back up after i get knocked down and i move up....wiser...stronger....more resilient.....i change......i cant change others...but i can myself...........deb

 

 

.....

Edited February 16, 2017 by todreaminblue

[truthtripper]

.......doesnt mean i am blind or does it mean i am dumb because i allow others to hurt me....i allow it...is an honest tell....i am not the one out of control....nor can anyone control me.....i choose...and i allow

.....

No, you are not dumb or blind. The issue is you lack self-worth to allow others to hurt you. That's not indicative of a healthy emotional self.

[Taramere]

eventually my spirit will just be all scar tissue and impenetrable thats my theory.....i can live with that...i have metal walls around my heart.......because along with hurt...i also learn.....things that are good for me to know.....like my spiritual capacity to stand back up after i get knocked down and i move up....wiser...stronger....more resilient.....i change......i cant change others...but i can myself...........deb

 

 

.....

 

Okay, I think I know where you're coming from. There's an element of some spiritual belief systems that promote the notion of exposing yourself to pain improving and strengthening the spirit. "Can't change the world, but you can change yourself" kind of thing. We can't necessarily change the world for the better, and other people's behaviour for the better - but we can at least take a shot at it. We can at least try.

 

Children vary in their temperaments. Some are very amenable and don't present their carers with all that many challenges. Others are more challenging temperamentally. A small minority are highly challenging (the child that appears to be born with an antisocial disorder) and will grow into highly troubled adults. But for the majority, how they develop into adulthood will be hugely influenced by external factors. Experiences they go through, and how they are parented. If a child continually does what they like and doesn't meet with much (or any) parental boundaries, they're probably going to grow up into an adult who can only make relationships "work" with other people who don't have boundaries - or who continually let other people dictate or disrespect their boundaries.

 

And if your response to people who gaslight, or neg or whatever else is to continually focus purely on trying to be strong by absorbing it without complaint, trying to pick yourself up and so on...you are enabling those people. And of course they'll never change, because there's no external pressure on them to change. No reason to change, so long as other people are enabling them.

 

I used to work with challenging adolescents residentially. Young people in a challenging often highly charged environment will try anything and everything that might assist them to feel a bit more powerful in that environment. As an adult in that environment, you have to push the message that the adults are going to take charge. Because the alternative would be for extremely dysfunctional victim-turning-abuser teens to take charge, which you just cannot have. Sometimes you have to be aggressive, in taking charge, to a degree that a very passive person would regard as abusive. But the alternative is to permit an environment where people with an indisputably abusive temperament are going to take over. Which is why very passive people in those difficult children's home environments are sometimes surprised to find that the children don't like them. Despise them even. It's not enough to be nice to those kids (though of course that has its place too). They have to trust that you have the strength and the courage to face off abusers in a bid to keep them (the residents) safe.

 

In short, passivity and pacifism are not always virtuous. Not if they enable truly horrible behaviour and abuse to flourish.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Taramere

[todreaminblue]

Okay, I think I know where you're coming from. There's an element of some spiritual belief systems that promote the notion of exposing yourself to pain improving and strengthening the spirit. "Can't change the world, but you can change yourself" kind of thing. We can't necessarily change the world for the better, and other people's behaviour for the better - but we can at least take a shot at it. We can at least try.

 

Children vary in their temperaments. Some are very amenable and don't present their carers with all that many challenges. Others are more challenging temperamentally. A small minority are highly challenging (the child that appears to be born with an antisocial disorder) and will grow into highly troubled adults. But for the majority, how they develop into adulthood will be hugely influenced by external factors. Experiences they go through, and how they are parented. If a child continually does what they like and doesn't meet with much (or any) parental boundaries, they're probably going to grow up into an adult who can only make relationships "work" with other people who don't have boundaries - or who continually let other people dictate or disrespect their boundaries.

 

And if your response to people who gaslight, or neg or whatever else is to continually focus purely on trying to be strong by absorbing it without complaint, trying to pick yourself up and so on...you are enabling those people. And of course they'll never change, because there's no external pressure on them to change. No reason to change, so long as other people are enabling them.

 

I used to work with challenging adolescents residentially. Young people in a challenging often highly charged environment will try anything and everything that might assist them to feel a bit more powerful in that environment. As an adult in that environment, you have to push the message that the adults are going to take charge. Because the alternative would be for extremely dysfunctional victim-turning-abuser teens to take charge, which you just cannot have. Sometimes you have to be aggressive, in taking charge, to a degree that a very passive person would regard as abusive. But the alternative is to permit an environment where people with an indisputably abusive temperament are going to take over. Which is why very passive people in those difficult children's home environments are sometimes surprised to find that the children don't like them. Despise them even. It's not enough to be nice to those kids (though of course that has its place too). They have to trust that you have the strength and the courage to face off abusers in a bid to keep them (the residents) safe.

 

In short, passivity and pacifism are not always virtuous. Not if they enable truly horrible behaviour and abuse to flourish.

 

 

you have given me some things to think about taramere...i have heard the term enabling quite a few times......when i say i choose to keep people who gas light me in my life.......i do speak up......i tell people what i am not comfortable with....i stand up for myself and i stand up for others......people do come to me for protection......and i have a strong defensive stand on bullying my stand is passively stand in front of the person who is being bullied or threatened and talk my way out of a punch in the face or a knife to the gut...i have seen the dark side...i baby sat the guys kids by the way who threatened me with a machete at my front door with his mate who had a skinning knife...my son ran in my front door with them close behind he came to me because he knew i would protect him even though my son knows how soft i am...i have metal in me........ when i wouldnt let this guy past to mutilate my sons face.......the next day ....

 

i met his wife when he came to apologize to me.... and I became her confidante in a domestic violence situation.

 

the guy in question got my son a good paying job at a meat packing factory ...where they used those big knives skinning kangaroo............things happen for a reason.......my biggest thing is i do forgive..and i have asked also people to leave my house before...its not something i feel good about and if there's a way around it like finding them a place to stay before i ask them to leave ill do that if they dotn accept my help and tell me f....ck you i hav edoen my best by them ... ..i know when its necessary.....and i will still work at helping the people i have asked to leave.......sometimes......it really is best in my personal experiences.... to ignore bad traits and serious flaws.... ...and concentrate on the good .try and bring that good to the surface of otherwise damaged pysches........

 

 

people are led to us i believe for a reason ..and thank you for your post...there are things i found really thoughtful and insightful in your post and i will really think about what you have written....i appreciate your thoughts and your personal knowledge.......deb

Edited February 18, 2017 by todreaminblue

[elaine567]

The whole point of gaslighting is that it is NOT obvious to the healthy or the unhealthy individual.

As the article says ANYBODY can be gas-lit if the right buttons are pushed, in the right order, over a length of time.

NO-ONE can say that they are immune, because they aren't.

[Taramere]

you have given me some things to think about taramere...i have heard the term enabling quite a few times......when i say i choose to keep people who gas light me in my life.......i do speak up......i tell people what i am not comfortable with....i stand up for myself and i stand up for others......people do come to me for protection......and i have a strong defensive stand on bullying my stand is passively stand in front of the person who is being bullied or threatened and talk my way out of a punch in the face or a knife to the gut...i have seen the dark side...i baby sat the guys kids by the way who threatened me with a machete at my front door with his mate who had a skinning knife...my son ran in my front door with them close behind he came to me because he knew i would protect him even though my son knows how soft i am...i have metal in me........ when i wouldnt let this guy past to mutilate my sons face.......the next day ....

 

I can definitely see where you're coming from TDIB. From the sound of it you've basically been born into circumstances where there are certain things you need to do to survive. And some of those methods you use to survive might not meet with approval in an online discussion where we place a lot of emphasis on healthy psychology and use words like enabling etc...but you do what you do to survive, and help your children to survive.

 

Sometimes society can be quite limited in the extent to which it can assist people out of challenging and even dangerous circumstances. Or, if you're in those circumstances, you might think "well, where would I go? Who would my support network be? I want a support network of people I feel genuinely connected to, even if they sometimes behave in screwed up ways, as opposed to a support network of professional helpers who are all full of ideas about how to be psychologically healthy...but who I'm not connected to in the way that I'm connected to kin. Who don't have my back in the "we have our issues, but I'll take a bullet for you" way that kin do.

 

What you're describing generally is that difficult balancing act, that's 100 times more difficult in an environment featuring people who might be a trigger or two away from violent behaviour. Where standing up for yourself or others places you at genuine and serious risk. And it's hard to present answers to that dilemma - especially where reduced financial provision for social welfare might make it increasingly unrealistic to get out of those environments and create a life elsewhere.

 

I suppose part of what you do in that situation, when you can't get out of it, is to search for others who are in a similar situation to you, and build support networks and genuine bonds with them, and try to build up some power and security through those communities. But it's certainly not an easy task you face.

[truthtripper]

The whole point of gaslighting is that it is NOT obvious to the healthy or the unhealthy individual.

As the article says ANYBODY can be gas-lit if the right buttons are pushed, in the right order, over a length of time.

NO-ONE can say that they are immune, because they aren't.

Emotionally healthy people will be able to pick up on a gaslighter sooner than people with low self-esteem. Ongoing confusing abusive behaviour is not normal. A person who constantly causes others to doubt themselves is toxic.

[todreaminblue]

I can definitely see where you're coming from TDIB. From the sound of it you've basically been born into circumstances where there are certain things you need to do to survive. And some of those methods you use to survive might not meet with approval in an online discussion where we place a lot of emphasis on healthy psychology and use words like enabling etc...but you do what you do to survive, and help your children to survive.

 

Sometimes society can be quite limited in the extent to which it can assist people out of challenging and even dangerous circumstances. Or, if you're in those circumstances, you might think "well, where would I go? Who would my support network be? I want a support network of people I feel genuinely connected to, even if they sometimes behave in screwed up ways, as opposed to a support network of professional helpers who are all full of ideas about how to be psychologically healthy...but who I'm not connected to in the way that I'm connected to kin. Who don't have my back in the "we have our issues, but I'll take a bullet for you" way that kin do.

 

What you're describing generally is that difficult balancing act, that's 100 times more difficult in an environment featuring people who might be a trigger or two away from violent behaviour. Where standing up for yourself or others places you at genuine and serious risk. And it's hard to present answers to that dilemma - especially where reduced financial provision for social welfare might make it increasingly unrealistic to get out of those environments and create a life elsewhere.

 

I suppose part of what you do in that situation, when you can't get out of it, is to search for others who are in a similar situation to you, and build support networks and genuine bonds with them, and try to build up some power and security through those communities. But it's certainly not an easy task you face.

 

 

i live two lives taramere i go to church with people who are righteous and successful dedicated and committed to living right..i am a latter day saint.... i have the utmost respect for people i attend church with...its a safe haven for me and i look forward every week to feeling safe..........they stand up for their faith..and others just liek i do......they also believe our bodies and home are our temples.....whereas my home is a trench for the broken....one day though taramere i want my home that people come to not to be a trench...but somewhere peace and safety reign supreme....i see you rpoints...and no i dont take much stock in what professionals will say to me ...when they dont listen to what i have to say first..

 

 

thank you taramere for listening and seeing my view..i feel you would really rock in community and social services.i bet you will make a difference and have made a difference

 

sometimes it takes a few steps outszide a text book and im sure you have known non budgers in your line of work..........i do see your points and seeing your view....wasnt difficult at all........ ..........one day......i might even have that normalcy you describe......

 

but maybe i might not and ill go out from my trench into another trench....or ill have a home i can see as a temple....or ill be in africa feeding the kids like i have always dreamed of....somewhere war torn .god knows tara i havent a clue...i can just dream and hope send prayers up above everything will make sense to me one day..........smilin....thank you.....deb

Edited February 18, 2017 by todreaminblue

[truthtripper]

.....furthermore, if gaslighting was not obvious to anyone, then it wouldn't be an issue and we wouldn't be discussing it.

[pureinheart]

I don't think people would be attracted to gaslighters, unless they were raised by/had close relations with one or more gaslighters in their childhood. No one appreciates liars/lies. When someone lies, this is a red flag. Dismissal of red flags and confusing behaviours, indicates that the victim has suffered this treatment before, it's familiar and thus normal to the victim-this is why they allow themselves to be manipulated by the gaslighter. We are attracted to the familiar, not to the unfamiliar.

 

Emotionally healthy people will be able to pick up on a gaslighter sooner than people with low self-esteem. Ongoing confusing abusive behaviour is not normal. A person who constantly causes others to doubt themselves is toxic.

 

.....furthermore, if gaslighting was not obvious to anyone, then it wouldn't be an issue and we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

You bring up some really good points, and I'm doing some 'soul-searching' right now-

 

@ Deb, in analyzing the true gas lighter, they are purposeful and know exactly what they are doing and it's intentional. So with that, if you or anyone has to ask themselves if they are one, then they probably are not. In your case (I think you said in another post you could be one or something like that), after seeing your posts for several years, you don't have the capability of being one or anything uncool for that matter. You are too straight-forward and probably your downfall is thinking others will behave the same as you.. do you make mistakes? Yes, but they are those normal mistakes.

 

TT- IMO we all lie or have lied, we all have cheated or cheat, etc... but (again my opinion) there is a line where it (lying, cheating, etc.) becomes the make-up of ones personality, mostly aware of what they are doing- gas lighting is pure evil if you ask me and is set apart from most horrible behaviors, as it's systematic and can be long-term.

 

I never saw it coming when it happened to me. I didn't understand it. It's the same with emotional abuse. Having been in many situations where I was messed up to someone or someone was messed up to me, but not on the levels that I'm about to describe. It was like way over the top and I spent more time second guessing myself rather than dealing with the problem. At times there was disbelief that anyone could behave in such a manner until I read the symptoms and traits of an emotional abuser... the articles screamed my name and same with gas lighting. It's like having a weird ailment and being able to identify with every single symptom- bingo.

 

Had I lived around it? Been raised with it? Was it that familiar as to attract that sort of person? I'm not sure yet, but one thing is for certain, it caught me wayyyy off-guard. I am very naive though...

 

Anyway, good posts here, good insight, thank you:)

[pureinheart]

Thing is nobody knows their being gaslighed until they figure it out. If they figure it out. It's a crazy making thing.

Towards the end of my RS I was driving somewhere and saw the BF's vehicle at a corner convenience store. He had just gotten out of his car and was walking in.

 

Talked to him later in the day and said "hey, saw you walk in to so and so today". He said "wasn't me". I said yes it was, your vehicle was there and I described the exact clothes he was wearing. His reply: wasn't me.

 

Right then and there I knew I was being taken. Prior to this he was telling lies but I still couldn't figure out if he was being truthful or not. When I saw this with my very own eyes I KNEW I was being gaslight and it was over. For why the heck would someone try to hide something so normal...and if they did what else was being hidden.

 

Most people aren't looking for it, nor expect it. In reading your post it made me think back .. I have been gas lighted a lot, especially in the area of cheating/romantic relationships.

 

Taramere I am so sorry you have to endure that, it's very disturbing especially in the workplace- that is your livelihood for Gods sake- and you are right, many out there play games, some worse, some not.. basically we should expect it. I wonder if this was the case back in the day (meaning 16, 17, 18, 1900). It couldn't have been so prevalent then... maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed more innocent back then.

[truthtripper]

TT- IMO we all lie or have lied, we all have cheated or cheat, etc... but (again my opinion) there is a line where it (lying, cheating, etc.) becomes the make-up of ones personality, mostly aware of what they are doing- gas lighting is pure evil if you ask me and is set apart from most horrible behaviors, as it's systematic and can be long-term.

 

I never saw it coming when it happened to me. I didn't understand it. It's the same with emotional abuse. Having been in many situations where I was messed up to someone or someone was messed up to me, but not on the levels that I'm about to describe. It was like way over the top and I spent more time second guessing myself rather than dealing with the problem. At times there was disbelief that anyone could behave in such a manner until I read the symptoms and traits of an emotional abuser... the articles screamed my name and same with gas lighting. It's like having a weird ailment and being able to identify with every single symptom- bingo.

 

Had I lived around it? Been raised with it? Was it that familiar as to attract that sort of person? I'm not sure yet, but one thing is for certain, it caught me wayyyy off-guard. I am very naive though...

 

Anyway, good posts here, good insight, thank you:)

The problem is human consciousness-and what do we do with it? We lie and cheat and commit even worse atrocities. It's what characterises us apart from other animals. So yes, we all lie and cheat, we can't help it. But as you mention, some people are worse than others, a certain subset being pathological, screwing up the lives of others.

 

Lying and cheating is a prominent feature in my family. Several of my family members have been in prison and some are still currently there. So I grew up in a gaslighting environment. This was all I knew about human behaviour and expected the same behaviour from others. When I grew up and left home, I found myself in abusive relationships, just an extension of my family environment. Why was this? - because I was attracted to the familiar, as we all are. I was attracted to abusive people and likewise, they were attracted to me. So my life was pretty much on a steady course, I was feeling comfortable in the dysfunction-not happy, but comfortable, because I was used to the abuse. In fact I was so used to it, that I was not even aware I was in abusive relationships.

 

Then one day I met a guy who swept me off my feet. He smothered me with gifts and complements. He also abused me, reminded me that I was useless and worthless, blamed me for his suffering, made me doubt myself, but that was normal, I didn't know it was abuse. But this abusive, confusing behaviour became more and more relentless and escalated to a point that now became unfamiliar to me. Only when the point of unfamiliarity is reached to we begin to question the relationship, but while the situation is familiar, there's no reason to question.

 

It seems we have to really suffer in relationships, to be prompted to look at ourselves and face the reality that we ourselves are emotionally dysfunctional, not just our partners. After all, it takes two to tango, right?

 

Looking at it another way, perhaps we should silently thank our abusive partners for helping us try to understand ourselves better(not that that's their intention!) which eventually gives way to facing the truth and healing.

Edited February 19, 2017 by truthtripper

[Ronni_W]

....or ill have a home i can see as a temple.... <snip> ...i can just dream and hope send prayers up above everything will make sense to me one day

Hi Deb.

 

Your posts - your optimism and your desire to offer strength and comfort to others, really resonates with me.

 

I'm not sure, but, you may find additional inspiration from one or more of these articles:

Does Pain Have a Spiritual Purpose

? And,

Foundational Teachings on how to respond to abuse and negative people

. And,

Praying for Others

.

In Love and Light.

[Taramere]

Most people aren't looking for it, nor expect it. In reading your post it made me think back .. I have been gas lighted a lot, especially in the area of cheating/romantic relationships.

 

Taramere I am so sorry you have to endure that, it's very disturbing especially in the workplace- that is your livelihood for Gods sake- and you are right, many out there play games, some worse, some not.. basically we should expect it. I wonder if this was the case back in the day (meaning 16, 17, 18, 1900). It couldn't have been so prevalent then... maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed more innocent back then.

 

Thanks PIH. I should emphasise that this guy is not a colleague of mine. He's a non lawyer who raises action after action - in the course of which he harasses whoever's on the other side with all sorts of incompetent motions, allegations etc. The few I've encountered see themselves as being on a grand, fearless fight for justice, and while they'll happily rail for hours over some perceived injustice levelled against them...they'll demonstrate an extraordinary blindness to the ways in which they have trampled over other people's rights in a very real and abusive way.

 

People like him think nothing of wasting huge amounts of court time in having their endless irrelevant complaints and self aggrandising nonsense heard, filing incompetent motion after motion, trying to swamp the other side with voluminous amounts of utterly irrelevant case law (about their human rights) and so on. Ultimately they risk being put on a vexatious litigants list, which means they are no longer allowed to raise actions without first getting special permission from the court...but for human rights and access to justice reasons, the authorities will tend to extend the benefit of the doubt for a very long time before they take a measure that extreme. So people like this guy can cause havoc, and endless stress, to many people before they're finally put on that particular leash for raising one too many actions.

 

We talk a lot on here about narcissism, gas-lighting and all of that. If you want to see an extreme version of that, defending an action raised by a character like that offers an opportunity. But it's all laid out pretty bare for everybody to see so it's quite different from that situation where it takes place behind closed doors and an isolated victim is left wondering "am I going mad?"

[Taramere]

Another thing about this. I can't speak to how all people who engage in this gaslighting operate, but when I encounter it it tends to be at the extreme end....ie where they're using the legal process as a method of abusing people.

 

They'll present as having absolute belief and certainty in their own lies...and actually, even when you've got firm evidence sitting in front of you you can feel confused. Not by the fact that they're giving the court an incorrect portrayal of what happened, but just by their absolute certainty in what they're saying.

 

The difficult for me is not "are they telling the truth?" I know they're not, but what you're left wondering is "does this person know they're lying, or do they have an undiagnosed psychiatric condition?" Because obviously with the latter - where it might be a psychiatric thing rather than just a dysfunctional personality, you'll tend to feel far more sympathy for the person. They can't help it if their perception of reality is completely skewed. It makes you feel that you have to be extra careful and gentle in your handling of them...which can give them an advantage they should not have, if they really are just a sane but absolutely sh*tty person.

 

So even if, as a result of evidence you have right in front of you, you can get over that hurdle of questioning your own reality because the person sounds so certain of their version of events....that lack of certainty can be replaced by something even more unnerving. The fear of "am I dealing with somebody who has an undiagnosed psychiatric condition...and if so, what are the potential risks for me here?"

 

In my case, this guy has a clutch of enablers and supporters (relatives) who enable him in his lies, and turn into liars themselves as a result. So unless the whole clutch of them have some undiagnosed psychiatric condition (which seems highly unlikely) I'm guessing that this is more an issue of a very dysfunctional family background. All his supporters are women, by the way. Other men generally seem to see through his sh*t a lot more swiftly than women do. Or maybe it's just that it's easier for him to extract sympathy from women.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Taramere

[todreaminblue]

Hi Deb.

 

Your posts - your optimism and your desire to offer strength and comfort to others, really resonates with me.

 

I'm not sure, but, you may find additional inspiration from one or more of these articles:

Does Pain Have a Spiritual Purpose

? And,

Foundational Teachings on how to respond to abuse and negative people

. And,

Praying for Others

.

In Love and Light.

 

thank you ronni i will read them........deb

[Ronni_W]

thank you ronni i will read them........deb

My pleasure, Deb.