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Narcissistic Abuse


Heatherknows

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Heatherknows

Has anyone here been in a relationship with a malignant narcissist and successfully recovered? I've had several of these relationships in my life. First being my dad and briefly dating, obsessing and getting dumped by men who are in this category. Any feedback is appreciated.

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SycamoreCircle

My ex exhibited over-the-top narcissistic traits in the weeks leading up to our split. I'm doing better. It has been about 1 year, 4 months NC for me.

 

This morning I woke up and thinking over some of the things that she did, I said "Never will she have access to me, ever."

 

That is how you stay safe. That is how you heal. You promise yourself you will never let someone so hurtful get near you again. You will never give them a word or action to distort for their own purpose. You will never give them anything again.

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Heatherknows
My ex exhibited over-the-top narcissistic traits in the weeks leading up to our split. I'm doing better. It has been about 1 year, 4 months NC for me.

 

This morning I woke up and thinking over some of the things that she did, I said "Never will she have access to me, ever."

 

That is how you stay safe. That is how you heal. You promise yourself you will never let someone so hurtful get near you again. You will never give them a word or action to distort for their own purpose. You will never give them anything again.

 

Yes. I agree. I've had 10 years no contact with my father and that works out well. I realized no matter how much I'd like to try to stand my ground with a Narcissist I always become emotionally undone. They have a strange power over me that I'm beginning to learn about. This site I came across is helpful:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtIVcBdfm2hZGd0V0tEFtxw

 

Narcissistic men can be very engaging and seductive. I'm beginning to learn how to resist their charms and develop boundaries. New territory for me.

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These narcissistic abusers like to make you think you're the "worthless" one. They feel above you and let it be known to you.

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Heatherknows
These narcissistic abusers like to make you think you're the "worthless" one. They feel above you and let it be known to you.

 

Yes. They're very good at that.

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How do you know how to establish boundaries when it comes to emotional abuse? WIth emotional abuse, your self-esteem is plummeting, but you can't stop it because the abuser is subtle in his comments.

 

Someone took me to Taco Shack for a date. He was a good-dresser and took me there specifically to make me feel less. He told me i didn't dress well.

 

He then took me to a bar the following week after lying to me where we were going and was calling me "ugly" before we got there. I got drunk and he assaulted me (no rape), and told me later that i was stupid and pathetic for getting so drunk.

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Heatherknows
How do you know how to establish boundaries when it comes to emotional abuse? WIth emotional abuse, your self-esteem is plummeting, but you can't stop it because the abuser is subtle in his comments.

 

Someone took me to Taco Shack for a date. He was a good-dresser and took me there specifically to make me feel less. He told me i didn't dress well.

 

He then took me to a bar the following week after lying to me where we were going and was calling me "ugly" before we got there. I got drunk and he assaulted me (no rape), and told me later that i was stupid and pathetic for getting so drunk.

 

I hope you're never going to have any contact with that man again. He's dangerous and can harm you not just mentally.

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Has anyone here been in a relationship with a malignant narcissist and successfully recovered? I've had several of these relationships in my life. First being my dad and briefly dating, obsessing and getting dumped by men who are in this category. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

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The problem I guess stems from the relationship you had with your narcissistic father.

 

Look also at Early Wounding & Dysfunctional Family Roles | World of Psychology

and

https://outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/CPTSD.html

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Heatherknows
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The problem I guess stems from the relationship you had with your narcissistic father.

 

Look also at Early Wounding & Dysfunctional Family Roles | World of Psychology

and

https://outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/CPTSD.html

 

Thank you for these links. If I don't get over the trauma my father caused me then I fear I'll never be able to truly love or appreciate anyone or anything because my trust issues are severe.

 

This rings so true for me:

 

When people have been trapped in a situation over which they had little or no control at the beginning, middle or end, they can carry an intense sense of dread even after that situation is removed. This is because they know how bad things can possibly be. And they know that it could possibly happen again. And they know that if it ever does happen again, it might be worse than before
Edited by Heatherknows
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regine_phalange

I was with someone who had some intense narcissistic traits: lack of empathy, didn't have any remorse of using people (not sexually but in other ways), he literally couldn't see past his nose, everyone was just an extension of himself and his needs and aspirations. Everyone else was just a pawn to help his plans and his idea of fulfillment.

 

I haven't forgiven this person for the pain he caused me and other people (yeah, he abused my and other women's love concurrently and he tricked us all, I felt sorry for these women as much as I did for myself). And I still feel angry. But I slowly came to see that this is all he knows and that's what he'll always have. He's not able to recognize love, he can't give it and he can't receive it. Love is a game for him, where one wins and the other loses.

 

It must be terrible to not be able to recognize when you are loved unconditionally. I think it's not his fault, it's the way he's wired and there's not much he can do about it. Having these traits and checking all the Borderline personality boxes is too big of a burden. A bit tragic, if you want my opinion. There's a lot of self-loathing and struggling going on in a narcissist's / borderline's world, my ex boyfriend literally hated himself and was in a lot of pain because of it.

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I was with someone who had some intense narcissistic traits: lack of empathy, didn't have any remorse of using people (not sexually but in other ways), he literally couldn't see past his nose, everyone was just an extension of himself and his needs...

 

But I slowly came to see that this is all he knows and that's what he'll always have. He's not able to recognize love, he can't give it and he can't receive it. Love is a game for him, where one wins and the other loses.

 

I think it's not his fault, it's the way he's wired and there's not much he can do about it. Having these traits and checking all the Borderline personality boxes is too big of a burden. A bit tragic, if you want my opinion. There's a lot of self-loathing and struggling going on in a narcissist's / borderline's world

 

^^^ Good description.

 

I was dating a woman a year ago who turned out to be narcissistic. She was quite charming on the surface and knew how to create the initial surge of attraction, but after awhile it became increasingly apparent that it was all about her getting her needs met. Everything I did (or didn't do), all of our interactions, were judged rather harshly using her high expectations and narrow perspective as the yardstick.

 

Where most people are able to enjoy "just being," her expectation was that I should constantly be doing something to please her... and the more I did and the harder I tired, the higher she raised the bar and the less my efforts were appreciated. It was tiresome to say the least, but there was also this constant feeling of anxiety over whether the next effort would please or result in harsh criticism. She could say "thank you" in a polite, empty way that communicated that she wasn't actually appreciative because it had only met the minimum expectation, which was actually a fail because the real expectation was that I should exceed her expectations... if that makes any sense. Yea, I think it will ring true to those who've been there.

 

It was difficult for her to reciprocate. It was as if giving a sincere compliment or expressing gratitude was costing her something and the price was too high. Her attitude was that being in her presence and the being the one who was granted the privilege of trying to please her should be reward enough.

 

Yes, it's just the way they're wired. They know they're broken, and that's the underlying feeling for which the behaviors are actually an attempt to compensate. They are not inherently bad, and certainly not stupid or naive. She actually apologized (sort of) once, admitting that she knew how difficult she was and that I deserved someone who had the capacity to reciprocate my affection freely. In a sense, my heart would break for her and her childlike inability to be satisfied and engage in a healthy relationship where positive energy flows naturally in both directions. She will never know that kind of happiness, and she realizes it on one level... while continuing to be the only way she really knows, because of the way she's wired.

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Narcissists have no empathy for others, as they have no empathy for themselves, therefore they have no self-insight or self-knowledge. They have no concept of love nor hate, therefore they cannot self-love nor self-hate, thus cannot extend love or hate to others. They view people, including themselves, as objects.

 

When a narcissist does show feelings such as empathy, compassion, affection or self-attack, self-loathing etc, they are merely feigned to gain favour or sympathy from others to get what they want. When they apologize as salparadise mentions, again, this is not genuine, it's using the same manipulative tactic to keep the victim(enabler) in their clutches.

 

We have to remember, narcissism is a product of extreme ongoing childhood abuse, inflicted upon by the parent(s)/caretaker(s) of these children. Their dysfunctional behavioural patterns are so deep-rooted, it seems unlikely that any kind of self-insight and healing is possible.

 

I can't help but be reminded of the neglected little Portugese girl, Isabel, who was kept in a chicken coop for the first 8 years of her life. When discovered by social services she could not talk and could only communicate by flapping her bent arms and clawing the ground. She was never able to develop the social skills to form relationships with other people. The childhood of a narcissist can be compared to that of Isabel's, being trapped in a world of complete dysfunction.

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Has anyone here been in a relationship with a malignant narcissist and successfully recovered? I've had several of these relationships in my life. First being my dad and briefly dating, obsessing and getting dumped by men who are in this category. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

Awareness heals. The fact that you're aware that your dad is a narcissist means that you are already on the healing path, which means that you can fully recover. Those who cannot face the truth ie:are in denial, cannot heal. My grandfather was a narcissist, murderer paedophile. Many of my family members who were exposed to his abuse do not believe that he committed all these crimes. The truth is too difficult for them to face. They are in denial, are dysfunctioning human beings themselves, therefore will never heal.

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Narcissists have no empathy for others, as they have no empathy for themselves, therefore they have no self-insight or self-knowledge. They have no concept of love nor hate, therefore they cannot self-love nor self-hate, thus cannot extend love or hate to others. They view people, including themselves, as objects.

 

When a narcissist does show feelings such as empathy, compassion, affection or self-attack, self-loathing etc, they are merely feigned to gain favour or sympathy from others to get what they want. When they apologize as salparadise mentions, again, this is not genuine, it's using the same manipulative tactic to keep the victim(enabler) in their clutches.

 

We have to remember, narcissism is a product of extreme ongoing childhood abuse, inflicted upon by the parent(s)/caretaker(s) of these children. Their dysfunctional behavioural patterns are so deep-rooted, it seems unlikely that any kind of self-insight and healing is possible.

 

 

I know it's often said that narcissists are devoid of empathy, compassion, ability to feel affection... the range of emotions through which healthy people attach, care and form affectionate relationships. However, I don't believe it's quite as black and white as most of the articles tend to portray it. Yes, they do learn to simulate, but I also think they have some limited access to these emotions, depending upon the severity of their dysfunction. But such feelings are scary to a narcissist because they make them feel vulnerable, and they retreat from them to protect the fragile core... whereas a healthy person does not feel so threatened and vulnerable that they need to suppress those feelings, because they have an in-tact sense of self that is not a fabrication and does not shrink or expand in response to transient feelings and external stimuli.

 

A person who is truly devoid of these feelings will usually be considered a sociopath, but still there are narcissists with sociopathic features, and most of those with a cluster b disorder will be a blend of more than one.

 

The woman I dated was highly intelligent, had been in therapy and done mindfulness work, so she did have twinges of self-insight. This made her very good at simulating, and even more difficult to distinguish between modes. Bottom line though, she was self-focused to a degree that I probably haven't experienced but one other time, and I have come to see it as a strategy for self preservation through denial of her feelings of unworthiness, replacing them with contempt for the person who challenges her to feel more... triggering the vulnerability and fear... which sends her back into defensive mode.

 

These people have a hard existence. I realize how little joy they're able to experience no matter how hard they try... I just have to keep reminding myself that she has no ability to reciprocate, and I can neither endure that nor have ill will toward someone who wishes she could be wired like everyone else.

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I know it's often said that narcissists are devoid of empathy, compassion, ability to feel affection... the range of emotions through which healthy people attach, care and form affectionate relationships. However, I don't believe it's quite as black and white as most of the articles tend to portray it. Yes, they do learn to simulate, but I also think they have some limited access to these emotions, depending upon the severity of their dysfunction. But such feelings are scary to a narcissist because they make them feel vulnerable, and they retreat from them to protect the fragile core... whereas a healthy person does not feel so threatened and vulnerable that they need to suppress those feelings, because they have an in-tact sense of self that is not a fabrication and does not shrink or expand in response to transient feelings and external stimuli.

 

A person who is truly devoid of these feelings will usually be considered a sociopath, but still there are narcissists with sociopathic features, and most of those with a cluster b disorder will be a blend of more than one.

 

The woman I dated was highly intelligent, had been in therapy and done mindfulness work, so she did have twinges of self-insight. This made her very good at simulating, and even more difficult to distinguish between modes. Bottom line though, she was self-focused to a degree that I probably haven't experienced but one other time, and I have come to see it as a strategy for self preservation through denial of her feelings of unworthiness, replacing them with contempt for the person who challenges her to feel more... triggering the vulnerability and fear... which sends her back into defensive mode.

 

These people have a hard existence. I realize how little joy they're able to experience no matter how hard they try... I just have to keep reminding myself that she has no ability to reciprocate, and I can neither endure that nor have ill will toward someone who wishes she could be wired like everyone else.

 

My narcissistic grandfather was also intelligent, a barrister and solicitor specializing in criminal law. He also had no ability to reciprocate. As a child, I loved my grandfather and for many years I wanted to believe that somewhere inside of him there were real feelings, that he was simply the kind of person who didn't show them. It was too difficult to face the truth about who he really was. In hindsight, I can see I was wrong. Sometimes I still analyze my memories of him, trying to find even a glimpse of real connection between us, but there is nothing. Someone who never ever reciprocates cannot possibly have any self-insight. Self-insight enables us to understand ourselves, so the more we have of it, the less dependant we need to be on our defences(in the case of narcissism, simulation and manipulation).

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How do you know how to establish boundaries when it comes to emotional abuse? WIth emotional abuse, your self-esteem is plummeting, but you can't stop it because the abuser is subtle in his comments.

 

Someone took me to Taco Shack for a date. He was a good-dresser and took me there specifically to make me feel less. He told me i didn't dress well.

 

He then took me to a bar the following week after lying to me where we were going and was calling me "ugly" before we got there. I got drunk and he assaulted me (no rape), and told me later that i was stupid and pathetic for getting so drunk.

 

Your situation reminds me of one boyfriend I had in college. For our first date, he took me to Arby's for dinner (I had to pay for my own meal), then to see the movie of *his* choice, Silence of the Lambs. He gave me a complisult, "I like you but you're not really my type." (The "complisult" is a favorite of narcissists -- mix of an insult and a compliment.)

 

One night we met at a mutual friend's apartment to drink before going to a fraternity party. Well, I drank too much and was drunk by the time we got to Frat Row. So, my then college boyfriend tells my concerned girlfriends that he'll stay in his car with me until I sober up. Nope. I blacked out in the car, and he left me in his car for 4 hours passed out drunk until they all decided to leave Frat Row. The next day, I broke up with the jerk and sent him some dead roses which I said represented our relationship. He had the nerve to show up at my parents' house un-announced and demand from my Mom who was home at the time, why I would dare to break up with him for what he did. My Mom told him, "Because I raised a smart daughter. Now get the hell out of my house, Bob."

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Your situation reminds me of one boyfriend I had in college. For our first date, he took me to Arby's for dinner (I had to pay for my own meal), then to see the movie of *his* choice, Silence of the Lambs. He gave me a complisult, "I like you but you're not really my type." (The "complisult" is a favorite of narcissists -- mix of an insult and a compliment.)

 

One night we met at a mutual friend's apartment to drink before going to a fraternity party. Well, I drank too much and was drunk by the time we got to Frat Row. So, my then college boyfriend tells my concerned girlfriends that he'll stay in his car with me until I sober up. Nope. I blacked out in the car, and he left me in his car for 4 hours passed out drunk until they all decided to leave Frat Row. The next day, I broke up with the jerk and sent him some dead roses which I said represented our relationship. He had the nerve to show up at my parents' house un-announced and demand from my Mom who was home at the time, why I would dare to break up with him for what he did. My Mom told him, "Because I raised a smart daughter. Now get the hell out of my house, Bob."

 

I'm wondering if the dead roses intrigued him.

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I'm seeing it from the other side. I been dating a woman who married one . She is a total wreck. If we calls her she stops everything is doing for him. After the fact that he left for 26 year old and we is 50 years old. He threatened to take her child away because of me being around her. And all I do is try to make her life is comfortable as possible and supporter and she still won't allow me to get close to her, and I do love her I just don't get it I understand the abuse but I don't know how to help her.

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I'm see it for the other , I'm dating a woman who was abused by her narcissist ex husband. She is a beautiful educated , and very sweet she's also the most wonderful mother in the world. She has self doubt issues, trust issues she can't make decisions on her own.If we calls her drops everything she's doing.Even after we left her for a 26 year old and he is 50. I love her , I support anyway I can, comfort her, most of all I show her true and she still can't handle it. He controls her live and mine now. It's heart breaking. I'm that the point should i stay or run.

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DrReplyInRhymes

I've been called a narcissist lately, in fact it was kind of sad,

Although I can be self-centered, I hardly feel that I'm that bad.

Although maybe she was right and all of her lies and bull**** was true,

....No, who am I kidding, doubting my sanity is the only thing she could make me do.

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I'm wondering if the dead roses intrigued him.

 

I'd like to say that Bob was too obtuse to get the full-meaning of a dozen dead roses, but he knew exactly what they meant. Bob was a narcissist. To the core. When I ran into his best pal about 8 years later, he told me that Bob's wife divorced him. I have no idea what's happened to Bob since. I just remembered something else. Bob proposed marriage to me...without a ring. I always felt like I got the short end of the deal, during my relationship with Bob. And I think that's probably one of the telltale signs that you're in a relationship with a narcissist. You always feel like the narcissist's needs are met, but not yours.

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I've been in therapy around this for a while. If you grew up with BPD or narcissist parent(s) you may have learned coping behaviours that you repeat over and over. These PD disorders are drawn to you and until you figure it out with therapy it will continue as it did for me into my 40's

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Has anyone here been in a relationship with a malignant narcissist and successfully recovered? I've had several of these relationships in my life. First being my dad and briefly dating, obsessing and getting dumped by men who are in this category. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

That's a tricky one, because what does recovery actually mean? I think often people measure recovery in terms of "I'm now in a very healthy relationship with somebody who treats me well". Well, I can't say that. The relationship I had with a narcissist put me off relationships. Mainly because I see strong elements of narcissism in the majority of men who have shown an interest in me since then. That appears to be the type I attract, and have attracted ever since I was a teenager, and I just don't want to go down that route again. I'd much rather be on my own than dealing with that crap on a full time basis.

 

I was talking about this with a psychiatrist of the kind who you can't really have a discussion with, without finding yourself spilling out all kinds of things - and no, it wasn't in an "I'm getting therapy" context - though it did feel a bit like therapy. You always tend to think of psychiatrists as being mainly concerned with medication etc, but this one was right into the whole psychodynamic theory stuff and it was a pretty awesome discussion.

 

Anyway, we talked about narcissism - and actually her take was pretty similar to discussions I've seen on here, though she had some extra insights that were very thought provoking. I told her I feel dysfunctional because I seem to be draw narcissistic people towards me. She asked "do you think you're good at dealing with people like that?" Well, yes actually. I do. "Do you ever encounter narcissism in the sort of work you do?" Oh hell yes. "Do you think your skill in dealing with other people's narcissism helps you in your work." Yes. Big time.

 

There are many, many narcissistic people out there. A lot of people who might otherwise be okay, but who become narcissistic when under a lot of stress or under pressure to make money, get ahead at work, demonstrate how tough they are and so on. So being able to deal with other people's narcissism and at times abusive narcissism (whether they're narcissistic temperamentally and to the point of being disordered, or whether circumstances are bringing out their narcissism) is an extremely useful skill. It's all very well for others to say "just don't deal with them. Steer well clear. Well, that's fine if you don't have to leave your house - but if you do happen to have to deal with the outside world, then there are probably going to be times you have no choice but to deal with a narcissistic bully.

 

So she pointed out that it isn't necessarily unhealthy to find yourself drawn towards learning the art of dealing with narcissists. Because unless you shut yourself away in your nest and refuse to deal with the outside world, you're going to encounter plenty of narcissism out there. But, it's important to balance the contact you have with narcissists by making sure you have more empathic and nurturing people in your life too.

 

Another thing though (and this thought is mine, not the psychiatrists). Don't look to the narcissist to provide you with reliable answers as to whether you're handling them the "right" way. They'll reward you for handling them the way they want to be handled...and if they're very malignantly narcissistic, they way they will want to be handled will be whichever way brings the maximum stress, confusion and pain into your life.

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circlesinfinity
Has anyone here been in a relationship with a malignant narcissist and successfully recovered? I've had several of these relationships in my life. First being my dad and briefly dating, obsessing and getting dumped by men who are in this category. Any feedback is appreciated.

Hi Heatherknows,

My father was a narcissist. I didn't find this out until I hit my late 20s, I thought he was crazy but never knew how to label it. My mom is currently recovering from his abuse, as well as my brother and I. We tried doing some exercises by a woman named Melanie Tonia Evans. She is very helpful!

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Just need to remember it's not you. They try hard and are very skilled at making you feel inadequate and they will do it to their next SO.

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