Noos Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I think that true, selfless love doesn't really exist judging from my experience and my observations of those around me. When you think about it, romantic love only lasts about 18 months to two years, only because it serves a biological function to bring people together to have sex and perpetuate the species. Attraction is only chemical - a response to pheremones - and there is no way that love between a man and a woman will survive for any long period of time if one of them doesn't want to have sex. Then, you may as well be living with any one of your platonic friends. People get sick of each other and divorce, so whatever was holding them together was only a temporary attraction and not a deep, enduring affection. It was probably lust or what they thought was love but was something else - like panic or settling. The only people who really stay together are those who need to for financial reasons, those who are too scared to be alone, and those who are too lazy to pack up and change their situation. You see lots of old married couples. Do you really think that they have a real passion for each other or that they are just resigned to their fate of needing a companion to with whom to share life's burdens and with whom to split bills, rather than really knowing that is the one person they want to be with over all others and why. Even the supposedly unconditional love for a child doesn't survive for some people if the parent and child are different enough or have personalities and behaviours that the other one cannot tolerate. I think love is just a made up scam to perpetuate the human race (who knows why?) and/or to couple up for economic reasons. Anyone else? Anyone been in what they would call love for a long time? What's the difference between love and lust. Isn't love really just love with better manners and a hidden agenda? Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Here is what I believe. I dont think there really is one explanation of love. I think love can be anything you want it to be. That is just my personal experience anyways. To really find someone that "fits" you so to speak, you need to find someone who shares your definition, like loyalty, respect, faithfulness, or integrity. I believe we watch too many romantic movies and read too many romance novels. You cannot live off of love. Love will not put money in your pockets or food on your table or even satisfy you in bed. I think people get married thinking that since they are so "in love" they will live happily ever after. They don't think about whats going to happen when the sex isn't as intense and the fireworks arn't sparkling anymore. I believe in compatibility more than I do "love". If two people are compatible, I don't believe they necessarily have to be in love to be happy together. In fact, I think you can grow to love someone, but you can't eternally love someone if you are not compatible with them. I believe that after the honeymoon phase is over, you've got to be willing to put on your gloves and safety helmet and go to work. Nothing comes from nothing. This "love" is not a glue that will stick you to each other for the rest of your lives. I think love is a generalization, if that at all makes sense. Its a package deal. I do not believe in love at first site. I believe in attraction at first site. This is JMO Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Once someone's in my heart, they have to work damn hard to get out. Not as in they're trapped but rather that they have to do something extremely serious to shake my affection. I don't know why loyalty and faithfulness are such problems for so many people, frankly. Link to post Share on other sites
catgirl1927 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I don't think that fairy tale loves lasts. But I think that love does exist. I think people can make a lifelong relationship work, if they are realistic about their expectations and clear about their boundaries. It does happen, but not to selfish people. There have been lots of times when I felt like you. Hell, I felt a little like that last week. But I just keep hope alive and try to get by day to day. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Noos Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 I'm not feeling bad today or anything catgirl. I was just thinking about concept of love and everything we know about human biology, sociology and stats on relationship snad divorces and anthropolgy and even the economic imperatives around running a household and having kids. I don't think you can stay attracted to the one person for your whole life. Maybe serial monogamy is the only way we can be truly present and nice to each other in a relationship. And even that relationship would have to have about a 2 year time limit. Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 You see lots of old married couples. Do you really think that they have a real passion for each other or that they are just resigned to their fate of needing a companion to with whom to share life's burdens and with whom to split bills, rather than really knowing that is the one person they want to be with over all others and why. ...and so wrong! I suppose my wife and I could be classified, by you, as an old, married couple. She's almost 58 and I'm just a few months shy of 60. We've been married for almost 10 years so obviously we came together rather late in life. That euphoric honeymoon period you mentioned didn't last 18 months to two years. It lasted about six years. So much for the odds, statistics, probabilities, etc. Why? because we're us and we don't fit neatly into someone else's preconceived notion of what's "normal." Neither of us needed to get married. My wife had been songle for 18 years. I was two years out of a divorce after 25 years of marriage which turned out to be a huge mistake. We both had a place to live, good careers and enjoyed our own company so we didn't need someone else in our lives. neither of us were lonely or needy. Wde just happened to fall in love after a five-year friendship and chose to come together and enhance one another. There's no "resignation" in this relationship, nor do we complete one another. We were each a whole person before we married and each of us still is. We also happen to relish and value one another and what we've found together which, in sum total, is better than what we had alone. In a collective 98 years before we married we had ample opportunity to determine if each of us was the one person the other wanted to spend the rest of our lives with, and why. It worked for us in the begining and it works for us still. I hope that one day you'll find that also. I would caution you, however, not to wait 50 years like I did or 48 like my wife. But then, things of value are worth waiting for and all the more precious for the experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Noos Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 I apprecaite your insight on this Curmudgeon - because I really don't want to be right. What was it after 5 years of friendship that turned your relationship wife your current wife romantic? Why did you go from friends to partners? Apart from your single status, what put the lightbulb over your head so to speak? Link to post Share on other sites
KittenMoon Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Two of my best friends just got married this past weekend. They truly love each other, and I've always known this. MY ex and I broke up three months ago, he was at the wedding too, sitting near me. I loved him for so long, I still do on many levels. Our "honeymoon phase" can be tallied in years. I also think we are very compatible people. BUT seeing my friends exchanging vows, I realized something was there that was missing from my ex and I. I still can't quite define it. It's not love. Love is the easy part. Maybe it's maturity, dedication, lack of fear, or the knowledege that things aren't always going to be great BUT THAT'S OK! Or maybe a combination of all of that. I think in a great relationship, love it always there. But love is like the sun... on somedays, it's just going to be cloudy, or rainy, or snowy, and you need to have a good place to weather those times until love shows up again, and faith that it always will. Link to post Share on other sites
MissTiss Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Two of my best friends just got married this past weekend. They truly love each other, and I've always known this. MY ex and I broke up three months ago, he was at the wedding too, sitting near me. I loved him for so long, I still do on many levels. Our "honeymoon phase" can be tallied in years. I also think we are very compatible people. BUT seeing my friends exchanging vows, I realized something was there that was missing from my ex and I. I still can't quite define it. It's not love. Love is the easy part. Maybe it's maturity, dedication, lack of fear, or the knowledege that things aren't always going to be great BUT THAT'S OK! Or maybe a combination of all of that. I think in a great relationship, love it always there. But love is like the sun... on somedays, it's just going to be cloudy, or rainy, or snowy, and you need to have a good place to weather those times until love shows up again, and faith that it always will. KM, that was beautifully put. I completely agree that a couple truly in love realizes that there are going to be hard times and that is OK. That leaving is not an option just because life isn't going exactly as we all planned. I do believe that love exists. I just think people get so scared of it, that they avoid it at all costs. A shame if you ask me. As much as I have been hurt--and that is a LOT-- I will still persue my quest for love. Because I would rather have the chance to love and be loved for a moment than a lifetime of contentedness in being alone. Link to post Share on other sites
starlet Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I don't think that fairy tale loves lasts. But I think that love does exist. I think people can make a lifelong relationship work, if they are realistic about their expectations and clear about their boundaries. It does happen, but not to selfish people. I love what you just said there. I think a lot of people have the misguided expectation that so-called "true love" is just easy and effortless like poof! it's meant to be and you don't have to work at the relationship ever. So people don't work at it - and that's why the "magical" love you thought you had is over in three years - because I think a real, loving, lasting relationship is something that you have to work at every day. Not work at in terms of making yourself love the person, but work at everyday in terms of attending to that persons needs, compromising, forgiving, letting go, and building an "us" out of two separate people with different lives, experiences, goals and desires. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 just a bottom of the coffee cup thought.......... Love is selfish. You are with a person because of the way you feel about yourself when you are with them. Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Love will not... ...even satisfy you in bed. I must completely agree with this. The only thing that will satisfy me in the hutch is a luscious, voluptuous, wet, and willing doe. Nothing to do with *love*. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 You are with a person because of the way you feel about yourself when you are with them. I don't agree. If I'm with someone, it's because I how I feel about HIM. I feel perfectly fine about myself all the time; I don't need someone else to make that happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I must completely agree with this. The only thing that will satisfy me in the hutch is a luscious, voluptuous, wet, and willing doe. Nothing to do with *love*. You f*** deer? Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 just a bottom of the coffee cup thought.......... Love is selfish. You are with a person because of the way you feel about yourself when you are with them. I believe this is true but it applies more so at the beginning of the relationship. Later as the years go by and you've endured the tough times together, you form a bond. You become a team in life. You begin to REALLY love the other person in a more unselfish and pure way and want the best for them. Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 You f*** deer? ... Male rabbits are bucks and female rabbits are does... same terminology for deer is used for rabbits. http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/breeding.htm My GF calls me *her buck* but I call her *Diva* cuz... well, she is! Last time I checked... deer don't live in hutches either... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I believe this is true but it applies more so at the beginning of the relationship. Later as the years go by and you've endured the tough times together, you form a bond. You become a team in life. You begin to REALLY love the other person in a more unselfish and pure way and want the best for them. this is true but if they do not provide you with positive input that provide positive things in your life you will be more inclined not to give a s*** even if you have been together for 25 years. there will be no forming of a team unless both players give the other the things they need or desire. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 this is true but if they do not provide you with positive input that provide positive things in your life you will be more inclined not to give a s*** even if you have been together for 25 years. there will be no forming of a team unless both players give the other the things they need or desire. Yes, so true. The foundation that you described must be in place in order to move to the next level which I believe is a more pure and unselfish kind of love. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Yes, so true. The foundation that you described must be in place in order to move to the next level which I believe is a more pure and unselfish kind of love. I would call that friendship. The real kind not the bulls*** hang out buddy kind. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 ... Male rabbits are bucks and female rabbits are does... same terminology for deer is used for rabbits. Oh ok, so you don't f*** deer, just rabbits. Thats comforting Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Oh ok' date=' so you don't f*** deer, just rabbits. Thats comforting [/quote'] Nevermind... you're not *getting it* but that's no issue... Link to post Share on other sites
Tim'sAngel Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Nevermind... you're not *getting it* but that's no issue... AH come on, can't I kid ya? Link to post Share on other sites
SmoochieFace Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 AH come on' date=' can't I kid ya? [/quote'] Whoops... my bad... you are just kidding. Oh, all right, I guess that's then. Link to post Share on other sites
shelters Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I think that true, selfless love doesn't really exist judging from my experience and my observations of those around me. Love is selfish. (And yes, it exists.) Link to post Share on other sites
KittenMoon Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Love is selfish. (And yes, it exists.) That's the funny thing, isn't it? Love is a selfish emotion, but it's the foundation of a long-term relationship. I suppose love becomes true love when you add in things like trust, respect, sacrifice, patience, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
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