potential cheater? should i give him a chance?

[rainshadow]

Hi there,

 

I find myself in a slightly slippery predicament that falls under the whole cheating-trust issue and I'm not sure if I should keep going.

 

My bf and I have been dating for almost a year and a half. We've been deeply committed to each other and have discussed marriage quite seriously. We're both in our late twenties and have 'been through' the other men and women to get to a point where we both know what we want. Everything up until now has been wonderful between us. Of course, like any relationship it's been a lot of work trying to sort through our own emotional baggage in order to have a healthy bond but we've both worked really hard to be together.

 

Now, to the scenario which brought me to this forum. I come from an alcoholic family and when I come home for the holidays, it's a very stressful and emotional time for me. Like any child of an alcohlolic, you find yourself needing stability and security. I've worked through counselling to get over this, but when I come home it seems to magnify. I tend to get a bit insecure because it takes so much strength for me to stay afloat in the house.

 

So, I sent a normal email to my bf today expecting his usual prompt response. However, I was feeling off centre today and felt a bit anxious when he hadn't responded (he had been away from the house). For some reason, I got the crazy idea in my head to go into his email box (he had given me the password months ago) to see if my message had arrived. I know this sounds neurotic, but I have honestly never done this sort of thing before. I saw that my email had not been read yet and curiousity, rather than self control got the best of me and i decided to briefly check his 'friends' folder. What I found in there was an email from a woman whom he had previously had 'relations' with a couple years ago. Now that he was home visitng, they had made arrangements for what looked like coffee. What got me was her last line which read, 'can't wait to see you, miss you, love you'.

 

I initially gave him the benefit of the doubt because he has been very honest with me in the past and never given me reason to think he'd cheat. When we spoke on the phone later in the day, I prompted him and asked if there was anyone (besides his usual friends) that he would be seeing over xmas. He clearly denied that he would see anyone else and claimed he didn't really know anyone else in his hometown anymore.

 

I then confronted him on it and admitted my very bad behaviour. He was naturally upset at me for reading his personal emails (and of course I'm quite ashamed) but confessed that he feared a confrontation with me over meeting this woman (whom he says has a boyfriend, etc) which is why he didn't tell me. I explained that if he had told me beforehand, I would not have had a problem b/c I'm not a jealous person.

 

What I find problematic is that he admitted cheating on a former girlfriend many years ago. It happened in a similar way while he was home visiting at xmas again, which is why this is an issue for me. The email did not in any way seem as though it was pointing towards a romantic rendez-vous, other than her 'miss you' comment, but the secrecy is what gets me.

 

I do believe that his intentions are only for 'coffee', but part of me feels prepared to walk away because I do not want to commit to someone who feels the need to be secretive, esp in a situation where it's a meeting with a former lover. The relationship up until today has been incredibly strong. I love him and feel that he is my equal match and so much of what I've been looking for.

 

Am I over-reacting? I know I have a right to an apology for his dishonesty, but I wonder if perhaps I am not making this into something bigger than it is.

 

Any suggestions would be really appreciated. We're at a stage right now of meeting family and planning a future together. The last thing I want is for trust to continuously wavering.

[JadeStar]

He admitted he cheated on a former g/f and now theres a email from a woman he used to have "relations" with to go out for coffee. What does that tell you?

 

Now, I'm not saying that because he cheated on a g/f before that he will again, but I will say that its best to at least keep your radar up on things. However, this email he received from this woman, did he reply to her? Did he tell her he would meet her for coffee? Or did you just assume that he was going to meet her?

 

I would think it would be best for him to tell her thanks but no thanks and that he is involved with someone. Or perhaps if he chooses to meet her for coffee, he should invite you along. If theres nothing other than coffee going on he shouldn't have a problem with it. If its uncomfortable for him or her that you tag along, who cares, he really shouldn't be meeting for coffee anyway.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[lilmoma1973]

 

I'm sorry but he is getting something from this girl or he wouldn't continue to receive emails from her !!Isn't he dating you why would he be emailing her ? I would say he is probably cheating and i know people can change if they have cheated before but they have to want to change the fact he is receiving an email from someone asking to meet for "coffee " leads me to believe there is an emotional connection with this person and he is getting something from it or she is one!! Be cautious with this and don't let your guard down !! Has he sent her a reply back? Will you go with him if says yes or will you dump him? Hopefully he will tell her thanks but no thanks!!Good luck

[witabix]

I would think it would be best for him to tell her thanks but no thanks and that he is involved with someone. Or perhaps if he chooses to meet her for coffee, he should invite you along. If theres nothing other than coffee going on he shouldn't have a problem with it. If its uncomfortable for him or her that you tag along, who cares, he really shouldn't be meeting for coffee anyway.

 

Jade

 

Absolutely correct. I have been dealing with this he is only a friend for a year. It really bugs me.

 

"he should invite you along. If theres nothing other than coffee going on he shouldn't have a problem with it. "

 

Definately correct. I have insisted that if he asks her again to go for lunch/concert etc I want to be there to meet this friend.

 

"If its uncomfortable for him or her that you tag along, who cares, he really shouldn't be meeting for coffee anyway."

 

More agreement here.

 

Make your mind up where your red line is, and do not let him even approach it without warning him. If he crosses it dump him.

 

The emotional pain will be shorter and you will have saved yourself a lot of anguish and suffering.

 

I have stated my rules clearly, the very next time he asks her out I will be there, any hidden communication, obfuscation or misdirection on any issue concerning any male friends will result in me leaving without any further discussion. I am sick to death of all the bs people come up with on these issues, and I will accept not one more tiny drop.

 

Do not let any one play with you or your feelings, you are too important for that.

[Craig]

I think you are making too much of this.

 

He gave you his password, he didn't use a "secret" email account to have conversations with his ex and he didn't delete the email you found in his friends folder.

 

He didn't tell you because he fears your reaction and THAT is something for both of you to look at.

 

NOW if he was emailing the ex a lot or meeting with her on a regular basis that would be a concern.

[rainshadow]

thanks for all of your replies everyone. helped me see things more objectively. i spoke with him on the phone this morning, and i think it's more in line with what craig wrote: "He didn't tell you because he fears your reaction and THAT is something for both of you to look at".

 

He has now decided not to meet with her and took full responsibility for not being honest with me. His past experience has caused him to want to avoid certain discomforts such as confrontations but he said that he will be honest with me in the future. I've had bf's meet for coffee with ex-lovers before but i always knew about it, and it wasn't sexual by any means.

 

To answer your question, he did respond but they had only been in contact a few times and they were very short emails. For his part, there was no indication of anything emotional but what bothered me was the 'secretive' meeting and not being upfront with me about it. If he had outright told me he was meeting this person, I would have had more respect and trusted him more. People who cheat don't tell about it.

 

But, I have heeded the warnings and we are working on building the trust issue again. It was broken both ways (by me checking his personal email and him not telling me about this visit) and now we have to be cautious.

 

He knows I won't tolerate deceit or cheating and I was quite firm about how important this trust issue is.

 

Being in a relationship involves so much risk-taking!!To make that leap of faith and say 'I'm going to trust you'; all the while knowing there is no 100% guarantee in life that someone could go behind your back unnoticed is so difficult. I do think he is very committed and sees the err of his ways in this situation.

 

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm on the right path now

[JadeStar]

Glad you all are working on things. However, I have to wonder if he declined on meeting her simply because you had found out about the emails? And not the fact that he truly didn't want too meet with her. Hopefully he will learn to be more honest with you, and you will learn to be able to rebuild some trust. Good luck to you.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[tanbark813]

If it was innocent he wouldn't have kept it a secret.

[lilmoma1973]

If it was innocent he wouldn't have kept it a secret.

 

 

My thoughts exactly Tanbark!!

[witabix]

If it was innocent he wouldn't have kept it a secret.

 

My thoughts exactly Tanbark!!

 

However, I have to wonder if he declined on meeting her simply because you had found out about the emails? And not the fact that he truly didn't want too meet with her

 

Call me a cynic, but the above posts resonate with me. I would wonder the same as Jadestar does.

[NYCmitch25]

First off I'm impressed that you have had the courage to actaully admit you have emotional problems (we all do) and not only that, take steps in identifying potential weaknesses from that knowledge. Maybe it's me but it seems that drinking is a big problem in UK and only on the rise more recently. Anyway, I think you are right, this *is* a slippery slope and especially for you since there are tendencies for fear and mistrust. Furthermore your "natural" fearing his potential infidelity, scanning his email, and finding suspect information (btw: was amoral of you) only "confirms" and componds the problem.

 

You came on here asking if you should be worried "feeling out" other people's responses because of your potential lack of being able to do so for yourself. I'm going to be the first to admit that I have no idea what your SO intentions are and speculating on what he may or may not do won't really help you in the long run. You need to face your fear and intamacy issues and learn to take that risk -- the risk that we all take when we open up to other people in such a meaningful way. Also, you have other major hurdles to over come -- such as are you subconcisiously trying to re-live out your dysfunctional family relationship as a "adult child" and is this guy the type who actively seeks out "weak" people to pray on.

 

His friend's "love you" comment on the email seems odd but also I'm not totally familar with British culture and they could just be long time friends. Also the fact that you seem to indicate that he could be repeating history is of some concern that he's got issues and perhaps picked someone like you to take advantage of? Maybe this gal was "that other woman" before? Of course this is the most dismal outlook and seemingly doesn't seem to be the case here since he is considering marriage with you.

 

In short, you have to accept that relationships come with risk and without trust you don't have anything. Aplogize to him a few more times, and give this thing a chance, fight very hard not to fear being alone or without someone and take the 12 step "adult child" program (sorry have to cut this short, work calls).

[Walk]

I don't see anything odd with it, or suspicious really. If there were other things beyond just the email, maybe... but she's never stated that his behavior has changed at all. Or that he seems distant in anyway. Once confronted he admitted he should have told her, but I didn't read any mention on how he was adamant of no wrong doing, or try to shift blame to her. It sounded more like how a person would act when they realize a small error in their judgement has been found out, and they apologize and move on. Not the beginnings of a full blown affair.

 

I meet my guy friends for coffee all the time. I don't tell my bf about most of the meetings. I'm not cheating on him. I won't cheat on him. I probaby should state who I'm going out with every single second of the day, but honestly he trusts me, and knows I'm not going to do anything to hurt him. But telling him might make him insecure sometimes, so I just don't mention it. Maybe it's not right, but we just talk about stupid stuff that is irrelevant to anything. Nothing personal, or private, or emotional.

 

He also knows I cheated on an ex in the past, and that it was with one of my guy ex friends. I am not the same person I was, nor is my relationship now the same as the past. People change. And I could understand why he would be even more concerned about telling you he's meeting up with the girl because he had told you he'd cheated once.

 

All I'm saying is, gauge this off of the bigger picture. If he seems secretive, distant, less affectionate on the whole, then dig a little deeper. If you feel that he could potentially cheat, then sit down and talk to him about where your relationship could use some more work. (Not a bad idea to do either way) Areas that he may feel are less then sastisfactory, or could use imporvement. Same with you. And if you take this as a warning, and invest more energy into fixing potential problems it will help you feel more secure. Not to mention make your relationship stronger.

 

But I don't think meeting a girl for coffee would be sign of cheating, nor is not mentioning it. He should have, and as long as that's cleared up I wouldn't get caught in the insecurity issues of it. Just evalute the relationship as a whole.

 

I would've cancelled the meeting too, if I were him. It obviously made you uncomfortable, and I would've felt that it would make you even more uncomfortable if I had asked you along. My thought being that I shouldn't have agreed to meet in the first place, and my SO is more important then a friend is.

[rainshadow]

wow, these are really varied and great responses and i think all of you are right to some extent.

 

what i've failed to mention is that up until that email, things with us have been absolutely supreme. in no way have i sensed him being distant or wandering. as i said, even the email itself seemed strictly plutonic from his side - her 'miss you, love you' comment also seemed to be more out of excitement like; lots to talk about or looking forward to seeing you.

 

I meet my guy friends for coffee all the time. I don't tell my bf about most of the meetings. I'm not cheating on him. I won't cheat on him. I probaby should state who I'm going out with every single second of the day, but honestly he trusts me, and knows I'm not going to do anything to hurt him. But telling him might make him insecure sometimes, so I just don't mention it. Maybe it's not right, but we just talk about stupid stuff that is irrelevant to anything. Nothing personal, or private, or emotional.

 

I really appreciated hearing this. Because I have my own emotional issues (given my past) with feeling safe and secure, I tend to really blow up the whole issue around cheating. To me, not telling me about this meeting was enough for me to think he could cheat because it was the act of keeping it a secret and then lying to me when i outright asked him if he had any other friends he was planning to meet over the holidays.

 

The truth of the matter is that he has had a lot of partners in the past, most of them casual. The woman he was going to meet for coffee was one of those casual friends whom he happened to sleep with at a certain time. But, like some of you said, perhaps I am fixating on this a bit too much.

 

One of his biggest weaknesses (and he has professed this before) is telling the truth all the time about how he feels if he's upset or something that will cause controversy. His past experience has taught him to just 'keep quiet' so as not to rock the boat. He is working on this however, and my gut instinct tells me (which is what he also said) is that he really just did not want to make me uncomfortable. After all we've worked on, and after how close we've been these past few months, it doesn't make sense for him to just throw it all away for one meeting.

 

If we were having problems such as intimacy or not really connecting, then I could see the potential in straying. Thanks for pointing these things out to me!

 

 

PS:

give this thing a chance, fight very hard not to fear being alone or without someone and take the 12 step "adult child" program (sorry have to cut this short, work calls).

 

This really hit home for me and I have talked about it in counselling many times. Sometimes I think I want my partner to act in a 100% unconditional way so that I will feel safe. Although I am fine being on my own, I think the adult child of an alcoholic still feels that fear of abandonment which is why these things are so big for me. Thanks.

[rainshadow]

MY BIG QUESTION NOW IS:

 

do you all think that it's inappropriate to have to tell your partner every person you're meeting? like walk says, she doesn't tell her bf about all of the meetings she has with her guy friends. however, if it's a past lover, would you feel comfortable knowing that you're meeting unknowingly, even if it is innocent?

 

the last thing i want is for my partner to feel as though i'm controlling him to the point where he feels he needs to check in with me and tell me every person he's meeting. in a way, that's a kind parent/child thing no? I think he should have a right to see who he wants, when he wants (within reason of course!)

[NYCmitch25]

MY BIG QUESTION NOW IS:

 

do you all think that it's inappropriate to have to tell your partner every person you're meeting? like walk says, she doesn't tell her bf about all of the meetings she has with her guy friends. however, if it's a past lover, would you feel comfortable knowing that you're meeting unknowingly, even if it is innocent?

 

the last thing i want is for my partner to feel as though i'm controlling him to the point where he feels he needs to check in with me and tell me every person he's meeting. in a way, that's a kind parent/child thing no? I think he should have a right to see who he wants, when he wants (within reason of course!)

 

If you look at successful 25 year marriages, the couples in them basically laugh at the silliness of this type of crap (perhaps reflecting back on how they were once "fools")! I say we accelerate our knowlege 25 years and do the same!

 

There are children starving to death in the world, waiting out an inevitable short and painful existance, and for what? Apparently my petty problems do not mean to much in this big world? Think about it, millions of people are suffering under unimaginable circumstances and I have the nerve to complain about the person driving in front of me or even the random possiblity yes the possibility that someone would cheat on me? I guess my point is that I'm letting it all go, I tell my SO all the time go ahead, cheat on me if she wants to, if she wants to call her ex go ahead, and I joke with her regularly about the mail-man having extra deliveries. OK she seems to think I'm a little crazy but it's cheap therapy for me.. lol

 

I suggest to relax and be honest, perhaps tell him that it's OK for him to have this friend but seemingly an ex lover does concern you as it would for most people including him. And you understand why he wouldn't want to be totally open with you about it. Then let it go, you have no control over people and it's futile to try..

[Walk]

do you all think that it's inappropriate to have to tell your partner every person you're meeting?

 

if it's a past lover, would you feel comfortable knowing that you're meeting unknowingly, even if it is innocent?

 

I don't think inappropriate is the right word here... I think if I were in his shoes I'd find it exasperating, controlling, and think you were insecure. But I don't think you're asking him to tell you EVERY one he's meeting, only ones that could potential destroy your relationship (from your view). He does need to respect that, and if it is making you uncomfortable, he should willing refrain from meeting ex's. Even if he believes meeting her is innocent.

 

I think if I were in your shoes, I would be uncomfortable/insecure if I knew my bf was going to go meet an ex gf/lover. I've met up with past ex's before (for coffee too) and not once did a single thought of "I wanna dump/cheat on my current for my ex" EVER cross my mind. What I have right now is too precious for me to throw away for anything. So, How does your bf view your relationship? I think that's the big question.

 

I guess, the way I see it... If you feel you are giving your all to the relationship, that your bf has expressed happiness in the relationship, and you haven't felt any of the nagging feelings of somethings not quite right (prior to finding the emails), then don't let your insecurity eat away at you for nothing. But make sure he feels his needs are being met, sexually and emotionally. If his needs aren't being met, then you need to find out how to meet them better.

 

One last thing... If you're having trouble getting your bf to talk about problems he's having (approaching you with them), re-evaluate how you are reacting to problems he may have. Do you get defensive immediately, or angry, or try to shift blame? I get really defensive, and it's caused problems before, but it's something I work hard to not do. And I'm utterly amazed at how high the level of communication becomes when I'm able to rationally, calmly, discuss problems he has with the relationship. I have to throw all emotions out the window though, and that's hard to do. But the results are more then worth the hard work. (when I'm successful) And if you start to notice there's a problem, or he's acting moody/upset/distant, approach him in a calm and rational manner, and ask.. "I've noticed you don't seem very happy right now, is there something you'd like to talk about with me?" If you can listen, not get defensive, and address his issues without shifting blame, then he'll become more comfortable approaching you when he does have a problem.

 

He also might not feel the need to hide meetings or contacts with ex's from you, if he feels he can discuss it with you in a rational way (not have you blow up, or cry, or get upset with him).