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I asked my crush to be my wing(wo)man


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ProfessorOptics

So, long story short... I developed feelings for a friend of mine's gf. What I like about her, is she's straight forward. BTW the feeling is mutual, but she and my friend have been together for a month and she's not the type to break up with someone to be with someone else. She's loyal and has integrity.

 

anyway, the reason I like her, is the same reason I asked her to be my wingwoman. She doesn't sugar coat things. Which I need if I am to find someone I'm right for, and who's right for me. and if I can't have her, then I thought maybe she could help me find someone else.

 

I think it's a good idea, but I'm wondering if anyone here has done something similar so they could share with me what I might expect.

 

in all honesty, this is how I see it: one of three things will happen: her trying to help me find someone else, may develop things further; she'll be a great wingwoman and I'll find someone amazing for me, or 3: it'll give her conflicted emotions, causing her to disappear completely.

 

Either way, she's a great gal, flaws and all. But she's straight forward and doesn't sugar coat things for my benefit. in fact it's the opposite. she'll tell me what she thinks, for my benefit. And I could help her make things work with my friend.

 

and in case you are wondering... my friend knows I like her (I told her myself before I told her) , he also knows she likes me. She chose him, that is all there is to it.

 

I don't actually know why I'm posting this here... I guess I'm trying to Guage what I could expect. and whether it's a good idea or not. either way, I'll probably still go with it, I just want to have some idea what I'm getting myself into.

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You came up with this idea because you have the hots for her. This is just a very creative Beta Male Orbiter maneuver.

 

Your buddy (her boyfriend) should be your Wingman instead,...after all, he proved he could get her and you couldn't, so he must know what he is doing better than you. Him and his girl should "go out",...have you along,...and your buddy helps you with the chicks.

 

But it didn't happen that way because you secretly have ulterior motives. It is just a creative means to stay in the "Orbit" of his chick that you have the hots for.

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You came up with this idea because you have the hots for her. This is just a very creative Beta Male Orbiter maneuver.

 

Your buddy (her boyfriend) should be your Wingman instead,...after all, he proved he could get her and you couldn't, so he must know what he is doing better than you. Him and his girl should "go out",...have you along,...and your buddy helps you with the chicks.

 

But it didn't happen that way because you secretly have ulterior motives. It is just a creative means to stay in the "Orbit" of his chick that you have the hots for.

 

Yea i bet... does it still count as beta when i openly admit my motives? She knows full on what my motives are, and so does my friend, my brother, my mum and step dad. But regardless, maybe i'm bull****ting myself, but I really do need help with finding someone. Or at the very least, translate **** for me to understand, and translate **** for the other party to understand. And every girl I do know, even though they want to help, they sugar coat things. She doesn't. She'll upfront say, "hey, she's not into you bruh, move on" or something a long those lines... which i admire. between her and my bro, being my wingmen, i can hope that i have a chance. Is it really "beta" about being honest about your desires?

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Yea i bet... does it still count as beta when i openly admit my motives? She knows full on what my motives are, and so does my friend, my brother, my mum and step dad. But regardless, maybe i'm bull****ting myself, but I really do need help with finding someone. Or at the very least, translate **** for me to understand, and translate **** for the other party to understand. And every girl I do know, even though they want to help, they sugar coat things. She doesn't. She'll upfront say, "hey, she's not into you bruh, move on" or something a long those lines... which i admire. between her and my bro, being my wingmen, i can hope that i have a chance. Is it really "beta" about being honest about your desires?

 

Beta really just means a "follower" for the most part. A person can also be of a completely different personality type but acts as a Beta in given situations due to bad Learned Behavor. Here's the Wiki definition:

 

Beta male: You are kind of shy and introverted and not very confident in yourself. You are constantly plagued by insecurities and self-doubts and you can never commit to anything in the fear that you will fail in it. You are somewhat liked by people but they tend to look at you rather condescendingly and woman tend to friendzone you. You are nervous around other people and social situations because you're always afraid that people are judging you. You are a born follower.

 

Go out with other guys who are decent with women,...like the friend of yours. Learn by watching them. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if you are following a good example or a bad example because results are usually not immediate.

 

I've probably already recommended Corey Wayne's book "How to be a 3% Man",...if I haven't,...now I am. I spent most of my life doing all the stupidest things a guy can do. Several years ago it was Corey Wayne that broke the pattern for me and I have never looked back.

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Yea i bet... does it still count as beta when i openly admit my motives? She knows full on what my motives are, and so does my friend, my brother, my mum and step dad. But regardless, maybe i'm bull****ting myself, but I really do need help with finding someone. Or at the very least, translate **** for me to understand, and translate **** for the other party to understand. And every girl I do know, even though they want to help, they sugar coat things. She doesn't. She'll upfront say, "hey, she's not into you bruh, move on" or something a long those lines... which i admire. between her and my bro, being my wingmen, i can hope that i have a chance. Is it really "beta" about being honest about your desires?

 

By being “upfront”, did you mean she’s aware you have a crush on her and is trying to be her orbiter?

 

This idea of having a crush on your good friend’s girlfriend already creeps me out, tbh.

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When you say she's to be your wingman, does this mean that you'll be out with her and she'll help you meet women? Have you considered that other women will avoid a man who's got another female who's so close? They'll feel the chemistry between you and sensibly avoid you.

 

This whole plan is going to end in tears. And please add outcome 4 to the list: lose your crush AND your mate.

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Beta really just means a "follower" for the most part. A person can also be of a completely different personality type but acts as a Beta in given situations due to bad Learned Behavor. Here's the Wiki definition:

 

Beta male: You are kind of shy and introverted and not very confident in yourself. You are constantly plagued by insecurities and self-doubts and you can never commit to anything in the fear that you will fail in it. You are somewhat liked by people but they tend to look at you rather condescendingly and woman tend to friendzone you. You are nervous around other people and social situations because you're always afraid that people are judging you. You are a born follower.

 

Go out with other guys who are decent with women,...like the friend of yours. Learn by watching them. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if you are following a good example or a bad example because results are usually not immediate.

 

I've probably already recommended Corey Wayne's book "How to be a 3% Man",...if I haven't,...now I am. I spent most of my life doing all the stupidest things a guy can do. Several years ago it was Corey Wayne that broke the pattern for me and I have never looked back.

 

Well, as much as i love him... he definitely doesn't follow corey waynes teachings. She's not happy in the relationship, i mean... they've been together now for, like 3 weeks... and he's talking to his ex again, bragged to his friends about how well she can suck and all that crap. And if you don't want to believe it, it's fine, but I truly care about this girl. Hell, i even shared what i learnt from corey wayne to help her work things out between them... I'll share it here, please tell me if i'm wrong anywhere, so i can break the behaviour, or if i'm giving the wrong advice/tips/pointers...

 

"[18:51, 10/9/2018] Tony: 1. Past actions predict future trends. Meaning if anyone, male or female, starts flaking, cheating, talking to exes while they're with you, piling up the backups, within a few weeks of the "relationship"... it's never a good sign. it's means they're doubting the relationship.

multiple reasons for this: insecurity, disinterest, lack of integrity, boredom, loneliness, etc.

doesn't mean things can't work out, it just means you need to be cautious with your heart.

[18:55, 10/9/2018] Tony: 2. If a guy or girl likes you... it's in their actions, not their words. If a guy or girl loves you, they will never do anything to make you doubt yourself, or the relationship... relationships are about growth, and are meant to be fun and effortless... not easy, but effortless.

two people who are aligned in their goals, desires, etc will naturally gravitate towards each other and they will grow together.

[18:59, 10/9/2018] Tony: 3. a guy who is with you, should only have eyes for you. no exes, no backups, no alternatives... just you. he shouldn't even look at the waitress, even when you point out how attractive the waitress is.

you: "hey, don't you think that waitress is hot?"

him without taking his eyes off you: "I'm sure she is, but not as hot as you"

[19:01, 10/9/2018] Tony: 4: a man is a woman's strength, he penetrates her with his love, emotionally, spiritually and physically.

a woman is a man's joy. she opens herself up to receive his love,and showers him with hers. she is his cheerleader, he is her champion.

[19:05, 10/9/2018] Tony: 5. a gentleman never sees you as a sex object. he is also not there to "fix" you. He's there to support, love and guide you while you work at improving yourself. He accepts you for who you are, always, and not for his idea of what he wants you to be. he doesn't try to mold you into his perfect woman, because you're already perfect in his eyes.

[19:07, 10/9/2018] Tony: 6. a gentleman never kisses and tells. He doesn't brag about how he got laid, or how great sex with you is. his friends can see it. if he does tell anybody, it'll be his best friend. and even then, it's subtle and respectful. never making you out to be a good "lay"

[19:10, 10/9/2018] Tony: 7. your man builds you up, never breaks you down. NEVER. even if he breaks up with you, he should leave you with more confidence within yourself than you had when the relationship began.

[19:12, 10/9/2018] Tony: they may not be just doubting the relationship. they may not be 100% into it, or with you. which brings me to my next point...

[19:15, 10/9/2018] Tony: 8. a gentleman never leads a woman on. he knows what he wants, if he doesn't want you, he doesn't leave you wondering or doubting. if he doesn't want a relationship with you, just hot meaningless sex... he'll tell you. If he wants you, he doesn't deny it, or hide it. Never ever does a gentleman lead you on. Only players do that, and for their own benefit, not for their love and respect for you.

[19:19, 10/9/2018] Tony: I'm not talking about creeps here. that's a different breed, and they usually try to manipulate you rather than lead you."

 

it may even be possible i am describing myself, i don't know...

 

And regards to corey waynes book, I have read it three times, and busy listening to the audiobook for the fifth time. And i listen to it everytime i come face to face with a decent woman. I feel like i'm getting it, and the same time, i feel like i'm missing the big picture the lesson he is trying to teach... I feel as though he describes this perfect man, who doesn't have insecurites, problems, issues, or any of that. That he doesn't get upset by stuff, or it doesn't sting when he gets rejected, or he doesn't "fall for women" so he can just brush them off if they reject him.

 

I keep reading/listening to his book, videos and podcasts. But i still feel there is something missing...

 

also, sadly, my friends aren't the best example of how to get girls... My closest friend is literally wrapped around his gf's finger, and hardly comes by anymore because he's too busy with her, and carting her around like a horse. I know i display beta qualities, and I try REALLY hard to be alpha. But the friends around me... well, Corey Wayne is literally made for them, more than myself, if not the same. And i don't really have anybody else i can "go out with and learn the ropes" from.

 

I get upset by ****, and for the large part, not because i don't like it but because i don't understand it. I literally cannot connect the dots. Hell, my family will know i'm upset about something before i do. It's them that make me aware of my mental and emotional state at any given moment. Without them, i'd probably remain my entire life not knowing how i feel about something, or someone, or what it was exactly that upset me. And because of that, it often simmers until it leads to a meltdown of sorts... My brother knew I was attracted to the girl in question before i did. Hell, he was the one that made it known to me. But when i read Corey Wayne, or Girls Chase or others, i feel that this is wrong. this is not how it should be. That I should be this confident outspoken guy, that is 100% aware of his emotional state, is in control of it, and never feels... They talk about feel to heal it... How do you heal it, if you don't feel it? If you don't even know it's there? Like, that spider you're unaware of sitting on the wall... then you walk past it, notice it, and **** bricks, with your heart pounding for a few seconds. It's kinda like that. Except its family that says "hey watch out for the spider"... I feel like it's wrong all just wrong, having asperger's, being unaware of my state at any given moment, and heck, being honest as best i can.

 

and regards to the question, I came out and said it straight out "I'm ****ing attracted to you", which i've never done before, actually. First told my friend about it though before telling her. She even admitted to having feelings for me too...

So I even distanced my self, but she doesn't want me to. she reaches out to me a lot of the time... I even deleted her number, without letting up i did so, to expel the temptation to contact her. I do not block, I believe it's childish, unless the other person is a complete creep and you're doing it to protect yourself.

 

I don't know if you're able to make sense of all this...

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teach... I feel as though he describes this perfect man, who doesn't have insecurites, problems, issues, or any of that. That he doesn't get upset by stuff, or it doesn't sting when he gets rejected,

 

Of course he is doing that. The goal always has to be out there ahead of you, so that you are always reaching out forward.

 

I keep reading/listening to his book, videos and podcasts. But i still feel there is something missing...
Of course there is something missing. It is a life journey, not an achievement award.

 

That is where the Aspergers gets you,...it is not a mathematical formula that you just solve and you are done. We are not machines or a robot (ok, well, there was the one chick on here that said I was a robot, but let's ignore that one :D).

 

Now CW does treat it like the Alpha & Beta are all that exist and you are either one of the other. That isn't true, and I think he knows that and is just trying to make a point without over complicating it. So you have to just read and grasp the point that is trying to be made rather than worrying about if you are an "Alpha" or not. Myself, I am not an Alpha and I never well be. I am an Omega. Just for giggles, here is the Wiki definition list:

 

Alpha male: You are confident and your own man. You do your own thing and have complete confidence in everything you do. You have your self doubts, but you don't let it cloud your judgment and logic. You are well liked by almost everyone, and you just have an easy charm and swagger about your presence. Women are drawn to your charisma and presence. You enjoy being social and having lots of people around. You are a natural leader

 

Beta male: You are kind of shy and introverted and not very confident in yourself. You are constantly plagued by insecurities and self-doubts and you can never commit to anything in the fear that you will fail in it. You are somewhat liked by people but they tend to look at you rather condescendingly and woman tend to friendzone you. You are nervous around other people and social situations because you're always afraid that people are judging you. You are a born follower.

 

Omega male: You are very much like the alpha male, the primary distinction being that where the Alpha "recharges" in groups you "recharge" by being alone. You are the polar opposite of the alpha male, but in a good way. Like the alpha male you are confident, intelligent and have a sense of charisma about you, but unlike the alpha male, you are completely your own person. You do not need anyone, and you can even be emotionally distant due to your complete self-possession. You trust few people and foster even fewer intimate relationships. Omegas do not care for leadership by others as they are perfectly capable of leading themselves

 

Gamma male: You are sort of the "invisible" guy. There is nothing really spectacular about you. You are not a beta, but neither are you an alpha. your personality and presence usually blends in with the rest of the room and you're just sort of...there. People like you just fine and you usually don't have too much trouble with girls, but all the same, there is nothing particularly memorable or remarkable about you. You are not a born leader nor an inherent follower, although you can take on those tasks depending on the situation.

 

Sigma male: You are a manipulative mastermind. You are a spider waiting to lay your trap. You possess a cunning, intuitive mind and can sway people to your will. You don't have the casual swagger of the alpha or the omega but you do have a clever presence about you and people tend to be both wary and respect you for that. You can often be even more powerful than the alpha or the omega male in social situations due to your ability to persuade and manipulate them. You are neither a follower or a leader but rather a wild card.

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You're doing your friend dirty. You'll lose a friend over this, and I wouldn't hold my breath thinking she's going to defy him and do this for you.

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OP: Are this Tony thingies some sort of religious teachings? If yes, let me add one more:

 

Tony: Never steal your mate’s girlfriend, even if your mate is not treating the girl well.

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You're doing your friend dirty. You'll lose a friend over this, and I wouldn't hold my breath thinking she's going to defy him and do this for you.

 

I know I'm doing my friend wrong, that's why i'm doing what i can to make up for it, by helping them as best i can to make it work between them. Even distancing myself, if that's what they need... which they keep reminding me they don't, and they want me to distance myself. Hell, he even said if things end up not working between them, he has no problem if she wants to end up with me. He just wants us to be happy at the end of the day, same as I do for him and her.

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OP: Are this Tony thingies some sort of religious teachings?

 

I think they are quotes from Tony Robbins. Corey Wayne is kind of a student of Tony Robbins so they share a lot of the same "sayings" and verbiage.

 

Yes, they are kind of New Age Movement-sh which is really a form of Pantheism,...so a religion in that respect. I am not of course, but I can respect the things they say about dating and relationships, without buying into the New Age - Pantheism crap. I'm Monotheistic.

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but eh... i'm not posting this to be told what a ****bag i am, because i already know. I'm also not here to be told what i'm doing wrong, because, again, i already know. Why i'm here, is to find out how to do it right... so that i don't end up offing myself because of this complete and utter hopeless, feeling that i will never get it...

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but eh... i'm not posting this to be told what a ****bag i am, because i already know. I'm also not here to be told what i'm doing wrong, because, again, i already know. Why i'm here, is to find out how to do it right... so that i don't end up offing myself because of this complete and utter hopeless, feeling that i will never get it...

 

Or maybe i am, i don't know... All i want is help, so if you feel that ****naming me is helping, by all means. Though it actually isn't, it's just reminding me of **** i already know...

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Or maybe i am, i don't know... All i want is help, so if you feel that ****naming me is helping, by all means. Though it actually isn't, it's just reminding me of **** i already know...

 

 

I understand your position better than you might think. If you look at the description of the Omega listed above, you'll understand what I mean.

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I understand your position better than you might think. If you look at the description of the Omega listed above, you'll understand what I mean.

 

Yea, i seem to fit either in Omega, or Gamma. Probably more Omega, but i'm not 100% certain. Definitely not Alpha, or beta... But i don't know... I can go for Months without anybody, then bam... something reminds me how alone I actually am. and that sends me spiralling into an abyss that takes months to climb out of.

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but eh... i'm not posting this to be told what a ****bag i am, because i already know. I'm also not here to be told what i'm doing wrong, because, again, i already know. Why i'm here, is to find out how to do it right... so that i don't end up offing myself because of this complete and utter hopeless, feeling that i will never get it...

 

You sound depressed. Why don't you take this opportunity to get in therapy and find out why of the literally billion available women in the world, you think getting your friend's woman is a life or death matter. There's some reason for that. Maybe you don't trust your own judgment. Maybe you can't get next to women unless you meet them through a friend because of some social problem. I don't know, but there's something wrong with you becoming overwrought over one particular woman who belongs to your so-called friend when there's literally infinite other women out there you could choose instead. Plus she doesn't even want you. She's chosen him. Maybe you like that. Maybe her being unavailable is safe feeling for you. You need to get out from the middle of them entirely and not even see her and get yourself some help and figure this out. It's self-destructive. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to keep you from ruining your life and losing friends over and over.

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You sound depressed. Why don't you take this opportunity to get in therapy and find out why of the literally billion available women in the world, you think getting your friend's woman is a life or death matter. There's some reason for that. Maybe you don't trust your own judgment. Maybe you can't get next to women unless you meet them through a friend because of some social problem. I don't know, but there's something wrong with you becoming overwrought over one particular woman who belongs to your so-called friend when there's literally infinite other women out there you could choose instead.

 

Okay... imagine yourself inside a box. That box is in a room, crowded with people coming and going. No one knows you're there, and they don't dare to look. When you decide to take a risk, and pop your head out, everyone scatters and the room is cleared, leaving you just as you were when you were inside the box. Or someone looks, and runs away for god knows what reason. So you climb back in the box, where it's safe and try to "make do" with fantasy and imagination, and "pretending" that you're in amongst the crowd by listening to the footsteps of those outside the box. Maybe even going a bit insane in the process..

 

This repeats, your whole life... then eventually, one person, the first person, who decides to take a peek and doesn't run away. Not only is she attractive, smart and "human", she's understanding and recognises your challenges. She even offers you a helping hand with those challenges, sees you for what you are and accepts it, no questions asked outside of general curiosity and willingness to learn how she can help you. She's even willing to help teach you what she can about being a "Man". But there's one flaw that stands out from the rest... She's dating the guy in the box in the adjacent room. You try hard not to get between them, because you like to believe you're not that kind of person. But seeing them together, well... That breaks your heart as well, because she's the first person to relate to you, and recognize you for you and not as some weirdo in a box...

 

She even offers to help get you hooked up, yet you have feelings for her and she tells you the same. But she's loyal, perhaps blindly, to the guy she met 3 weeks prior to yourself. On one hand, you take up her help, and she finds you a girl just like her, who sees you just as you are and accepts you the way she did when she decided to open the box containing you. On the other hand, it destroys you seeing a girl you've grown to care about deeply, not just involved with another man, but another man who clearly doesn't appreciate what it is he has.

 

You leave, and risking to live the rest of your life inside this box, with no one daring to look into it like she did. But except now it's worse, because she's in your head...

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She even offers to help get you hooked up, yet you have feelings for her and she tells you the same.

 

Then you don't ask her or accept her offer to help you get hooked up. You don't solve a problem by creating another one...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Yea, i seem to fit either in Omega, or Gamma. Probably more Omega, but i'm not 100% certain. Definitely not Alpha, or beta... But i don't know... I can go for Months without anybody, then bam... something reminds me how alone I actually am. and that sends me spiralling into an abyss that takes months to climb out of.

 

Probably the main difference between us on this is that the feelings may be more intense with you than with me,...but the pattern is the same. I'm also in my mid-50's so the maturity may help me. My impression is that you are much younger.

 

I've been rolling a theory around in my head about the personality types. I think most people view the Alpha and Beta as the two main ones because everyone seems obsessed with them. But I am starting to think that is not true. I'm thinking he two main ones are really the Alpha and Omega which are more-or-less the Extrovert and Introvert versions of the same thing. The Beta when you look at the characteristics seems to be just learned behavor. The Sigma could just be bad up-bringing (hence also learned behavor). So my thought is that the Beta is just an Omega "gone wrong" and the Sigma is just an Alpha "gone wrong",...in fact when people criticize the Alpha for their flaws they usually are just describing the Sigma in reality. The Gamma would just be floating out there on it's own and is basically just Mr. Average with no significant characteristic. In the end that means that with self-improvement and training the Beta can move to the Omega and the Sigma can move to the Alpha,...and life would be better for them.

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Thanks for telling me what's going on inside your head. I'm sure you realize you need therapy to get over this social handicap you have. I didn't know you were having that many problems until you told me but it only reinforces what I said which is that you need to go get help and get therapy and overcome this problem that is going to hold you back your entire life. by going after other people's girlfriends you are only going to run off any friends you and you have to realize that just because this woman has been around you and sees you as a human doesn't mean she's romantically interested in you.

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Thanks for telling me what's going on inside your head. I'm sure you realize you need therapy to get over this social handicap you have. I didn't know you were having that many problems until you told me but it only reinforces what I said which is that you need to go get help and get therapy and overcome this problem that is going to hold you back your entire life. by going after other people's girlfriends you are only going to run off any friends you and you have to realize that just because this woman has been around you and sees you as a human doesn't mean she's romantically interested in you.

 

You know what, I don’t judge men who go for girls with a boyfriend, as long as they don’t cheat; they’re not married after all. But going for your friend’s gf is no better than cheating, imo.

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You know what, I don’t judge men who go for girls with a boyfriend, as long as they don’t cheat; they’re not married after all. But going for your friend’s gf is no better than cheating, imo.

 

Yeah, ****, i just want to bury myself in a hole somewhere...

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Thanks for telling me what's going on inside your head. I'm sure you realize you need therapy to get over this social handicap you have. I didn't know you were having that many problems until you told me but it only reinforces what I said which is that you need to go get help and get therapy and overcome this problem that is going to hold you back your entire life. by going after other people's girlfriends you are only going to run off any friends you and you have to realize that just because this woman has been around you and sees you as a human doesn't mean she's romantically interested in you.

 

yea i do need help. I'm already seeing a therapist, but i don't see him all too often because he's a long way a way, and getting to him is a challenge. I just wish I could find a mentor or something who can break it down for me and literally show me in real time how all this stuff works...

 

I guess women don't find a man such as myself attractive, sexually appealing or anything more than just a friend... I'll just bury myself in a hole somewhere and live out my days by myself. being doing it for 10 years, what's a life time?

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Most people kind of know what is right, but they don't always do it. It is each individual's nature. People can advise you on what to do to reach a certain goal, but no one, not even yourself, can change your innate nature.

This girl is not imagery. If you think about her too much she becomes semi-imaginary in your head. If you decide, according to your nature, to do this wingman thing, then you ask her, and you'll get reality. She may run off with you or shoot you down, or play you against her boyfriend.

I'm of the of opinion that people should stick to their own kind. If you are kind, you will be mistreated if you stay with people who are mean. If you are straightforward, you'll be played if you stay with people who are tricky. But if you're both tricky then you're a good match.

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