Good rules for men in the dating world

[Woggle]

I see all these men struggling when to me it doesn't have to be so hard. There are some simple rules to follow which have helped me greatly.

 

Always respect yourself and know how you deserve to be treated

 

Respect women and if they don't respectably then cut them off and move on

 

Work on building up your own life which means, career, finances, hobbies and passions and good women will naturally come into your circle

Be a gentlemen but don't be a doormat and don't let yourself get taken advantage of.

 

Women just like men have the right to say no and not be interested. Some people just are not into you and if that is the case just move on. It is nothing personal so don't get angry

 

Women are neither angels nor demons. They are simply people who aren't much different than you.

 

Stay away from women who hate men and say next if you hear her use misandrist dog whistles like toxic masculinity, patriarchy and mansplaining. Most women wouldn't touch an incel or mgtow with a ten foot pole so treat their female counterparts the same.

 

Just be you instead of feeling like you need to apply PUA tactics or run game or buy into the alpha vs beta crap. I said before that women are simply people so deal with them as such instead of treating them as chemicals that can be manipulated using tactics some snake oil salesman sells to insecure men.

 

This is how I operated when I was single and it worked perfectly.

[Larry56]

Stay away from women who hate men and say next if you hear her use misandrist dog whistles like toxic masculinity, patriarchy and mansplaining. Most women wouldn't touch an incel or mgtow with a ten foot pole so treat their female counterparts the same.

 

100% agree.

 

Dating a few self-confessed feminists over the years taught me these women are less about gaining equality between the sexes but more about developing a victim complex and blaming other people/their past on their own current terrible behavior.

[alphamale]

excellent guidelines woggle...i'll give alphamale's seal of approval

[SevenCity]

Mostly agree. But “being yourself” doesn’t work for a lot of guys.

 

Instead, be someone women want to be with.

 

If being yourself is living in your parent’s basement playing video games, you will have a much harder time finding and keeping women.

 

Also, women ARE NOT the same as men. The have different experiences, expectations, and motivations. To think that a woman will respond to logic and reason, like you do, will be your downfall.

[Gretchen12]

It's actually extremely disturbing to hear a grown man utter the phrase "women are simple people".

 

I have always been a person. Honest!

[Woggle]

It's actually extremely disturbing to hear a grown man utter the phrase "women are simple people".

 

I have always been a person. Honest!

 

What I meant is that women just like men are people. Nobody is some mythical larger than life being in a good or bad way.

[snowboy91]

Mostly agree. But “being yourself” doesn’t work for a lot of guys.

 

Instead, be someone women want to be with.

 

If being yourself is living in your parent’s basement playing video games, you will have a much harder time finding and keeping women.

 

Not sure if I agree with all of this, but I do agree with what you're trying to say. By "being yourself" I take it as "be the best version of yourself" - look after yourself well, develop your hobbies and career, learn to enjoy life in your own way. Becoming the best, most interesting version of yourself is self fulfilling in and of itself, but then you become interesting to others. Including a potential partner.

[jay1983]

I see all these men struggling when to me it doesn't have to be so hard. There are some simple rules to follow which have helped me greatly.

 

Always respect yourself and know how you deserve to be treated

 

Respect women and if they don't respectably then cut them off and move on

 

Work on building up your own life which means, career, finances, hobbies and passions and good women will naturally come into your circle

Be a gentlemen but don't be a doormat and don't let yourself get taken advantage of.

 

Women just like men have the right to say no and not be interested. Some people just are not into you and if that is the case just move on. It is nothing personal so don't get angry

 

Women are neither angels nor demons. They are simply people who aren't much different than you.

 

Stay away from women who hate men and say next if you hear her use misandrist dog whistles like toxic masculinity, patriarchy and mansplaining. Most women wouldn't touch an incel or mgtow with a ten foot pole so treat their female counterparts the same.

 

Just be you instead of feeling like you need to apply PUA tactics or run game or buy into the alpha vs beta crap. I said before that women are simply people so deal with them as such instead of treating them as chemicals that can be manipulated using tactics some snake oil salesman sells to insecure men.

 

This is how I operated when I was single and it worked perfectly.

 

Never met one IRL, and I get out a lot. I honestly think they're just internet people who never leave their home.

[basil67]

Stay away from women who hate men and say next if you hear her use misandrist dog whistles like toxic masculinity, patriarchy and mansplaining. Most women wouldn't touch an incel or mgtow with a ten foot pole so treat their female counterparts the same..

 

I agree with almost all of what you say. However, most of the terms you object to get mostly used about the very men you're trying to teach how to date. They seem to be stuck in a dance of thinking we are the ultimate gain and hating us. They don't see us as the very ordinary people we are.

 

The last time I had the thought "mansplaining" on here (I didn't write it because I know how it would end), it was about a male poster who read everything we women had to say on a generic dating question and then told us we were all delusional. When the men agreed with the women on another thread, he said nothing. (I'll send you a link if you PM me). If his words weren't mansplaining, I don't know what is.

 

I don't know what toxic masculinity really describes. But patriarchy still exists in particular religious beliefs (ultra conservative Christian and Muslim come to mind) and Mansplaining (men who dismiss the opinions of women they don't agree with - but wouldn't do the same to men) is a thing. Sure, the adjectives absolutely get overused and I take particular care to not join in, but they do seem rather apt for men who really don't like or understand women.

[somanymistakes]

Mostly agree. But “being yourself” doesn’t work for a lot of guys.

 

Instead, be someone women want to be with.

 

However, pretending to be someone you're not, in order to attract a mate, is not going to work out in the long run. Eventually your partner will find out who you really are. If that's something she doesn't like, then she'll be twice as angry at you, once for being what she didn't want in the first place and once for lying about it.

 

If you can change yourself in small ways to get along better with other people, go for it.

 

But if your true self really does long to spend every weekend playing with model trains, you're better off rolling with it and waiting until you can find a partner who actually appreciates your hobby. It may take longer, but you'll have a better partnership in the end.

 

Also, women ARE NOT the same as men. The have different experiences, expectations, and motivations. To think that a woman will respond to logic and reason, like you do, will be your downfall.

 

Women ARE NOT the same as each other. They EACH have different experiences, expectations, and motivations. To think that any individual woman will respond to logic and reason the exact same way as the woman standing next to her will be your downfall.

 

I mean, you've been on this forum a while, I'm sure you've noticed we don't all agree on things!

[somanymistakes]

I don't know what toxic masculinity really describes. But patriarchy still exists in particular religious beliefs (ultra conservative Christian and Muslim come to mind) and Mansplaining (men who dismiss the opinions of women they don't agree with - but wouldn't do the same to men) is a thing. Sure, the adjectives absolutely get overused and I take particular care to not join in, but they do seem rather apt for men who really don't like or understand women.

 

I don't think most people who use the term 'toxic masculinity' have any idea what it means either. I mean, sometimes there are real problems being talked about, but slapping a fancy label on them makes them harder to understand rather than easier. So I have no idea whether one person talking about 'toxic masculinity' is talking about the same thing as someone else or not.

 

I think it's "supposed" to mean times when our view of what makes someone manly is so restrictive that it ends up hurting men. Like men who won't go to the doctor to be checked out because they are so averse to admitting weakness that they will ignore their symptoms and just "tough it out" like a "real man", possibly right up to the point that they drop dead.

 

But since it's impossible to tell from the phrase that that's what it's referring to, people will just throw it around whenever they want to say that masculinity is bad.

[Els]

Stay away from women who hate men and say next if you hear her use misandrist dog whistles like toxic masculinity, patriarchy and mansplaining. Most women wouldn't touch an incel or mgtow with a ten foot pole so treat their female counterparts the same.

 

 

Errrr, no. The equivalent of a incel or mgtow is a woman who believes things like sex is inherently misogynistic or that all men are pigs. All of the terms you mentioned in the bolded are legitimate terms that are used frequently in intellectual and academic discussion, by both male AND female researchers. "MGTOW" and "incel" are not. For instance, here is an article on toxic masculinity written by a man with concern about male well-being.

[Woggle]

I still stand by what I said. I have rarely seen women use those words who don't have some level of anti-male feelings in their heart. They aren't the ones going around say I hate men and all men are pigs but in reality they are the ones men need to watch out for more.

 

To me they are dog whistles in the sense that they don't have the conviction to come right and say they are anti-male so they dance around the issue. They say toxic masculinity but in reality they see all masculinity as bad and pretty much time anytime a man has an opinion on anything whatsoever he is mansplaining.

 

Anyway that is just one piece of advice I gave out of many but in today's climate men need to watch out for this kind of thing.

[somanymistakes]

Honestly it's probably good advice - if that's your very first impression of a woman she's probably a bit too obsessed with that sort of thing. It doesn't necessarily mean she hates men IMO, but being too driven on any issue is going to be exhausting and distracting.

 

It's like dating a man/woman who is obsessed with saving the environment. Good values, but if you can't have a single meal together without them going off on a rant about how X is killing the planet, it's not going to be much of a romance.

 

I don't agree with your underlying reasoning, but it's still decent advice for dating.

[Els]

I still stand by what I said. I have rarely seen women use those words who don't have some level of anti-male feelings in their heart. They aren't the ones going around say I hate men and all men are pigs but in reality they are the ones men need to watch out for more.

 

To me they are dog whistles in the sense that they don't have the conviction to come right and say they are anti-male so they dance around the issue. They say toxic masculinity but in reality they see all masculinity as bad and pretty much time anytime a man has an opinion on anything whatsoever he is mansplaining.

 

Anyway that is just one piece of advice I gave out of many but in today's climate men need to watch out for this kind of thing.

 

 

I agree with somanymistakes that it would probably be strange to bring up something like that on a first date, unless the conversation naturally flowed into it. Probably like a man talking about his ex or similar. He might have a valid concern with his ex, but it's really not first date material.

[Woggle]

True but if it comes up on the 3rd date or even a year into dating it should raise a red flag.

[losangelena]

I still stand by what I said. I have rarely seen women use those words who don't have some level of anti-male feelings in their heart. They aren't the ones going around say I hate men and all men are pigs but in reality they are the ones men need to watch out for more.

 

To me they are dog whistles in the sense that they don't have the conviction to come right and say they are anti-male so they dance around the issue. They say toxic masculinity but in reality they see all masculinity as bad and pretty much time anytime a man has an opinion on anything whatsoever he is mansplaining.

 

Anyway that is just one piece of advice I gave out of many but in today's climate men need to watch out for this kind of thing.

 

Ehn, two things:

 

1. In our inherently sexist society, you could say that most men also carry a seed of hatred in their hearts for women. This doesn't mean they all go around actively hating women, but is reflected in ways like unequal pay for women (a well-documented phenomenon), and the sexualization of women for the sake of male dominance.

 

2. Women have experienced enough violence at the hands of men through the millennia that the hatred is justified.

 

 

You and I are clearly not a match, and that's fine.

 

I'm not a man-hater, but I can understand women who are.

[Woggle]

I would advise women to stay away from men like this. If a man treats women badly then stay away from him.

 

If a woman has that much resentment against a certain group of people then stay away from them. If you hate men or women that much why are you even trying to date them and potentially form a connection with one. I wish more manhaters would embrace the gender separatism that we saw in the 70s.

 

I have seen men get involved with women like this and it just becomes a futile never ending attempt to placate her and prove you are one of the good ones which never happens. No matter how much you try to do right by them they will always turn on you. You can do everything outside of actually castrating yourself but when she is angry at men you will become the avatar of the patriarchy that she directs her rage at because deep down she knows that you won't stand up for yourself.

[Els]

True but if it comes up on the 3rd date or even a year into dating it should raise a red flag.

 

 

A YEAR into dating? This is perplexing. Most people are comfortable enough with each other to discuss controversial issues a year into dating. If you're not, that is a red flag IMO.

[PRW]

I agree except for the first one and the last one.

 

 

Being yourself doesn't work if you are a screwed up mess. Fix yourself first.

 

 

"Alpha vs beta crap"?? It isn't crap, it is completely valid.

[Woggle]

A YEAR into dating? This is perplexing. Most people are comfortable enough with each other to discuss controversial issues a year into dating. If you're not, that is a red flag IMO.

 

If it comes up anytime it should be. If you were dating a man who managed to hide his misogynistic nature and it all of a sudden comes out would you stay?

[Els]

If it comes up anytime it should be. If you were dating a man who managed to hide his misogynistic nature and it all of a sudden comes out would you stay?

 

 

Talking about toxic masculinity does not necessarily make someone misandrist! Good grief. Did you read the article I linked? Do you think the author is misandrist?

 

 

If they were misogynistic/misandrist, you'd see it in their actions, or in different terms. The terms you mention are perfectly normal, intellectual terms used by perfectly normal people in perfectly fine relationships.

[PRW]

Well I guess I agree that men and women are the same too,...they are not.

[Woggle]

Some men are worse misandrists than women. I just think if a man wants a happy relationship these are good rules to live by. They were rules I followed when I was single and it certainly worked for me and I am a strong believer in doing what works. What sounds good and what actually produces the results you want or often two very different things.

[Els]

Some men are worse misandrists than women. I just think if a man wants a happy relationship these are good rules to live by. They were rules I followed when I was single and it certainly worked for me and I am a strong believer in doing what works. What sounds good and what actually produces the results you want or often two very different things.

 

 

Anecdotally my experience in "what works" differs from yours in that aspect.

 

 

Seriously, I doubt you even bothered to click on the link. So I'm not going to bother, either.