Narcissism?

[FMW]

I've been reading lately about narcissism and I'd like to hear what the average person thinks - not mental health experts who write the official articles and studies.

 

I always assumed narcissism, like most personality disorders, affected only a small percentage of the population. The term seems to be bandied about a little too freely and applied to situations where I've thought the person in question was probably just self-absorbed and selfish. Maybe a blurring of lines happens between narcissistic tendencies (which apparently we can all have at times) and true narcissism.

 

The question comes about because I'm in the process of ending a romantic relationship with a man and unrelated, a friendship with a woman. In examining the reasons for feeling the need to end these relationships I've realized that they both exhibit many behaviors that fall under those exhibited by narcissists. But I'm wondering what are the chances that I happen to attract not one but two actual narcissists into my life in what have been very close relationships.

[amaysngrace]

I'd say the odds are pretty good, especially if you're an empath with charisma.

[Mr. Lucky]

But I'm wondering what are the chances that I happen to attract not one but two actual narcissists into my life in what have been very close relationships.

 

I think some of it is the age we live, where friends are Facebook connections rather than real pals we can depend on. Is someone a narcissist if they ignore your presence to interact with someone else on their phone? If their mobile device rings in the middle of someone's wedding vows as happened at a ceremony we recently attended?

 

I'll just say there seems to be a bigger pool of selfish people to pick from...

 

Mr. Lucky

[darkmoon]

I have known a gang of 3 narcs, and they used a lone narc as the flying monkey (a go-between on the narc's side)

 

 

 

I think there are plenty people out there who want to put one over on others, may as well be aware of it, refuse to get involved no matter how much love-bombing

[somanymistakes]

Narcissism is an easy and popular explanation at the moment to be applied to all broken relationships. He/she's a narc, he/she is terrible, so it's unfixable and I should move on while telling myself how mistreated I've been, and so on.

 

Everyone has some narcissistic traits. If you didn't, you'd be horribly broken in an entirely different way.

 

And some of these checklist sites are so broad that basically EVERYONE will appear to match up as some kind of narc. "I didn't realise it until I looked, but I'm actually a triangle soft passive narcissist!" or some weird sub-category thing like that.

 

Slapping labels onto people is usually a method of trying to make them look worse, either to yourself or others. She wasn't just a bad friend who ignored me, she was a narc. My father wasn't just bad at connecting with me, he was a narc.

 

But the thing is, if their behavior was really bad, you don't need that label to justify not dealing with them anymore. And if their behavior wasn't that bad, then it's probably not fair to try and use the label to avoid talking about what they actually did.

 

Leave the diagnoses to the professionals.

[DKT3]

Well, around here its usually tossed around when someone doesn't do what the one tossing it around wants. So I often find myself asking "who is? The one saying it or the one they are saying it about"

 

Real genuine cases are rare, but most people can show traits.

[lovely81]

I think it is a useful term (narcissism), but not necessarily as a way to understand another person, but to understand oneself. "I am in relationships with narcissists."

 

What's more confusing is not why they act the way they do, but why I accept it. Delving into that has been very fruitful and led to concrete ways I have changed and improved my world and life.

 

So, I think there's validity to the term, but the true usefulness is using it as a mirror to one's own soul. Without doing that, it sort of compounds the whole problem--more focus on them. And that obscures the underlying problem, self-abandonment.

[FMW]

I think it comes down to me having weak boundaries and accepting too much xxxx (until I just can't handle it anymore and there's no going back). So people who love to dish xxxx are probably attracted to me for that reason. Definitely experiences I'm using to improve myself for future relationships, romantic and otherwise.

[CantTakeMySmile]

I'd say the odds are pretty good, especially if you're an empath with charisma.

 

What an interesting idea. What do you mean? Care to explain a bit?

[amaysngrace]

What an interesting idea. What do you mean? Care to explain a bit?

 

Yea, sure. Narcissists are drawn to loving, caring, giving people, ones who are polar opposite of themselves. When a narc gives it's done out of manipulation only or bragging rights whereas an empath gives because it's in their nature to do so.

 

Narcissists are very good at being charming especially when the person they're trying to win over is a charasmatic individual. That's what narcs genuinely wish to be but can't be because they're narcissists. They're empty inside. So they try to extract from others what they find most appealing but lack.

 

Narcissists are very good at mirroring others so the charm they present to you is really just your own charm reflecting back. The more charming you are the more likely you are to be targeted by one, providing that the charm is authentic and not just an act.

[FMW]

Yes, I found amasyngrace's response intriguing as well and googled the subject. I read quite a bit about it and I do seem to have the majority of the traits of an empath. And it definitely explains why I have been feeling so overwhelmed lately with the chaos these two relationships bring me.

 

The reading I did referenced "empowered" empaths as those who learn to manage "the gift" by setting boundaries and keeping grounded with healthy living practices (diet, exercise, time in nature, meditation). Something I've already been trying to establish

[LuckyM]

I prefer the word egoistic. Everyone is egoistic to a point. That is, they advance their own self-interests in whatever they do. Even when it looks liked they are helping others, they are still getting something from it. Pleasure or feeling good or storing a credit for the future.

 

Some are much more egoistic than you and me. They have their own agenda--personal and social. Especially many parents BTW with their adult children.

 

The true test is when they do something simply because it is the right thing to do--for you or another and it is a self-sacrifice.

[outwithpeterpan]

Narcissism is an easy and popular explanation at the moment to be applied to all broken relationships. He/she's a narc, he/she is terrible, so it's unfixable and I should move on while telling myself how mistreated I've been, and so on.

 

Everyone has some narcissistic traits. If you didn't, you'd be horribly broken in an entirely different way.

 

And some of these checklist sites are so broad that basically EVERYONE will appear to match up as some kind of narc. "I didn't realise it until I looked, but I'm actually a triangle soft passive narcissist!" or some weird sub-category thing like that.

 

Slapping labels onto people is usually a method of trying to make them look worse, either to yourself or others. She wasn't just a bad friend who ignored me, she was a narc. My father wasn't just bad at connecting with me, he was a narc.

 

But the thing is, if their behavior was really bad, you don't need that label to justify not dealing with them anymore. And if their behavior wasn't that bad, then it's probably not fair to try and use the label to avoid talking about what they actually did.

 

Leave the diagnoses to the professionals.

 

Precisely. There's a small minority of people who can be clinically demonstrated to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 

But in public discourse, you can safely file the term narcissist alongside OCD, astrology concepts, MBTI types (astrology's modern and better organized successor), etc. A speculative attempt at a causal explanation for the tendencies you observe in people. Except insidiously hiding behind something purported to have scientific merit.

[Sweetfish]

Narcissism is an easy and popular explanation at the moment to be applied to all broken relationships. He/she's a narc, he/she is terrible, so it's unfixable and I should move on while telling myself how mistreated I've been, and so on.

 

Everyone has some narcissistic traits. If you didn't, you'd be horribly broken in an entirely different way.

 

And some of these checklist sites are so broad that basically EVERYONE will appear to match up as some kind of narc. "I didn't realise it until I looked, but I'm actually a triangle soft passive narcissist!" or some weird sub-category thing like that.

 

Slapping labels onto people is usually a method of trying to make them look worse, either to yourself or others. She wasn't just a bad friend who ignored me, she was a narc. My father wasn't just bad at connecting with me, he was a narc.

 

But the thing is, if their behavior was really bad, you don't need that label to justify not dealing with them anymore. And if their behavior wasn't that bad, then it's probably not fair to try and use the label to avoid talking about what they actually did.

 

Leave the diagnoses to the professionals.

 

 

Funny that because you or others don't understand something, you police others not to give advice to other members who have more experience on the matters. No one is prescribing medication and as long as the individual has sufficient proof and evidence that they may be a victim of a high functioning disorder.. you have no right to police others, with hold knowledge or baby sit others to fit your comfort zone . The individual should be intellectual enough to seek out proper help, education, or guidance from a professional and at many times professionals can get it wrong as these are disorders that require DEEP relationships to trigger any visible symptom. A doctor may not know you have a problem if you don't tell him you symptoms is that not true? So to assume a professional is a mind reader shows where you lack knowledge in the subject matter.

 

 

 

The flip side is society often tells many men they are the reason relationships fail and they will literally stomach narcissistic abuse and some of these guys have a sign of relief that they were not the complete problem, identify them, and correct them. Its disingenuous to assume that every individual walks away from relationships not wanting to know what went wrong. Go on youtube and see how many people got married to an NPD or BPD not knowing the symptoms and now legally tied up with that person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that is the case no one should be giving advice about divorce here as it is a very slippery slope in a legal sense. Shouldn't that be handle by professionals. (IE lawyers) advice here can have LONG term consequences. but I see no policing here:rolleyes:

 

 

 

Precisely. There's a small minority of people who can be clinically demonstrated to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Wait? so you can give random data that you pulled from the sky on how many individuals suffer from NPD...yet simultaneously agreeing that no one should label individuals. Hilarious. I know this game... it goes like this.

 

 

If its positive its ok to label individuals.

If its negative you cannot label individuals.

 

 

That is logically flawed thinking and please let me know your conclusive evidence of how minute NPD is. NPD is not easily diagnosed as its a high functioning personality disorder, along with BPD, and HPD which may require triggers to show their ugly faces.

 

 

 

For the OP:

 

 

Narcissism is literally a safety and coping mechanism. Most individuals have this mechanism as it provides protection to ones self. NPD is exactly what it means... its a disorder of the coping mechanism. It is only classified as a disorder if these coping mechanisms have a huge impact on your life. So it often we see glimpse of DSM V traits in individuals and start throwing out symptoms and disorders in an attempt to push all responsibility to the partner.

 

 

 

Typically starts from childhood, in theory the individual starts to create a "mask" to protect their ego and true self. There can be a multitude of reasons why a person does this. Since this person is doing what ever they can to protect their true self.... they literally develop zero to little empathy because the relationship is not attached to the "real" individual.. but the mask. They see most people as black or white. Once a person goes black they usually never go back.

 

 

 

Its common to hear about narcissism in relationships because an individual with NPD will most often come on really strong and fall in love hard, but eventually will be unable to sustain the mask in a deep relationship and/or the high of from the new relationship . This is when the disorder is at full throttle and only the partners may see the disorder so its in the best interest of the NPD to protect his/her mask and use people around them to gas light the victim. *flying monkeys*

 

 

 

So yes when I believe someone may have been gas lighted or affected by NPD or BPD I will call it out, as the narcissistic abuse can be very damaging to the individual to the point they will not t=seem them self as the victim.

 

 

 

Do a lot of members throw around improper labels... yes, but a lot of members give improper advice on a multitude of other things IE: Whats the big deal unless you your self has been labeled and projecting your frustration on to the whole forum so that you can enjoy the forum under your terms.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Sweetfish

[carhill]

I'm wondering what are the chances that I happen to attract not one but two actual narcissists into my life in what have been very close relationships.

 

Out of how many relationships/friendships in life? Also, how would you characterize your 'close relationship' with the two samples versus other close relationships you've had in life, existing or ended? Any patterns?

 

Awhile back I cared for a clinically diagnosed nutcase for a number of years. I knew something was off but it took a team of doctors the better part of a year to nail down the clinical term, psychotic paraphrenic dementia. How did it go for you? Always felt something was off or just another productive relationship that, unfortunately, went sideways? Sometimes relationships do that. Probably a lot of times. Very few last a whole lifetime.

 

I kinda liked the opinion of one of our neuropsychometrists who shared when one has seen one 'nutcase' (my word, not his), they've seen one. They're all different, just like your male partner and female friend are different and unique. If you see commonalities in yourself wrt relationships, cool, great fodder for personal work. The rest is life. It's over before you know it. Hopefully not running down the street naked and yelling

[DKT3]

Funny that because you or others don't understand something, you police others not to give advice to other members who have more experience on the matters. No one is prescribing medication and as long as the individual has sufficient proof and evidence that they may be a victim of a high functioning disorder.. you have no right to police others, with hold knowledge or baby sit others to fit your comfort zone . The individual should be intellectual enough to seek out proper help, education, or guidance from a professional and at many times professionals can get it wrong as these are disorders that require DEEP relationships to trigger any visible symptom. A doctor may not know you have a problem if you don't tell him you symptoms is that not true? So to assume a professional is a mind reader shows where you lack knowledge in the subject matter. <snip>

 

So this response isn't policing?

 

Besides, I don't think that is what she was doing. What I got was her stating that its actually rare, which it is (according to the Mayo clinic only 200k per year, 4 million babies per year in the US alone)

Edited July 26, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Sweetfish]

So this response isn't policing?

 

Besides, I don't think that is what she was doing. What I got was her stating that its actually rare, which it is (according to the Mayo clinic only 200k per year, 4 million babies per year in the US alone)

 

 

How so?

 

 

Anyway 200k a year is ALOT and that is just NPD and NPD is high functioning so majority of individuals with NPD will not even know they have it. We have not even got into the dozens of other complexes like bi-polar, anti- social disorders ASPD, or BPD and the highly hard to detect HPD all with a 200k per year case statistic. Most of these fall in the narcissism family.

 

 

 

So base on that, we are talking about 1 out of 3 or 4 individuals will have these traits which leads to depression. Why do you think there is an opioid epidemic now

 

 

 

More than half of all opioid prescriptions in the United States are written for people with anxiety, depression, and other mood disorders, according to a new study that questions how pain is treated in this vulnerable population.

 

 

The analysis showed that adults with mood disorders receive 51 percent of the opioid prescriptions distributed in the U.S., some 60 million prescriptions a year.

[FMW]

Wow. Somehow I didn't notice there were more comments over the last several days on this thread. Looks like I swatted a hornets nest

 

Carhill, your point is a good one, two relationships out of how many over my lifetime. The romantic relationship was started and the friendship was made much closer just over the past 3 years, during which time I was going through a divorce after 23 years of marriage, dealing with my dad's battle with cancer which he ultimately lost, and moving from the home I had loved and seen as my sanctuary. All big life events, and handling all of them together left me in a less than optimal emotional state. So I wasn't as careful as I should have been about minding my emotional boundaries.

 

I think in both situations, they just exhibit strong narcissistic tendencies and are very troubled. My female friend is diagnosed as bi-polar, it runs in her family, her father committed suicide because of it. The romantic partner has family trauma of his own, his brother murdered his father. He's an alcoholic in a family full of alcoholics.

 

But it's all been a very good, if very painful, lesson. Hopefully I'll use it to move ahead and make better choices in relationships in the future.

[OatsAndHall]

Narcissism is an easy and popular explanation at the moment to be applied to all broken relationships. He/she's a narc, he/she is terrible, so it's unfixable and I should move on while telling myself how mistreated I've been, and so on.

 

Everyone has some narcissistic traits. If you didn't, you'd be horribly broken in an entirely different way.

 

And some of these checklist sites are so broad that basically EVERYONE will appear to match up as some kind of narc. "I didn't realise it until I looked, but I'm actually a triangle soft passive narcissist!" or some weird sub-category thing like that.

 

Slapping labels onto people is usually a method of trying to make them look worse, either to yourself or others. She wasn't just a bad friend who ignored me, she was a narc. My father wasn't just bad at connecting with me, he was a narc.

 

But the thing is, if their behavior was really bad, you don't need that label to justify not dealing with them anymore. And if their behavior wasn't that bad, then it's probably not fair to try and use the label to avoid talking about what they actually did.

 

Leave the diagnoses to the professionals.

 

 

This...

 

 

There's very clear criteria for being diagnosed with any personality disorder. And, when you truly run across someone who has a diagnosed personality disorder, you'll figure it out pretty quickly. Don't buy into the articles you read on social media; someone who is truly has a narcissistic personality disorder will be lose their charm quickly and they'll make your skin crawl. Chances are, you won't just be uncomfortable or put off by them; you'll avoid them.

 

 

 

I worked as a counselor in a youth treatment center and we were taught to be very wary of some of our oldest teens (i.e. 17 years old, approaching 18) as they were only a few months away from being diagnosed with a personality disorder and treated for it (you have to be 18 for to be tagged with a personality disorder). These kids were being treated for a variety of other mental health issues but we all cringed when the therapist would warn us before hand because these patients made us want to wear Kevlar.