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#MeToo and an OW's experience


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Old 31st January 2018, 8:45 AM   #46
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I can...

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Originally Posted by OpenBook View Post
What behavior is that? Can you describe it specifically?
I can, and I think there are several ways to tell.

This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.

But I can pick one out by observing them for a few minutes.

It is really obvious...
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Old 31st January 2018, 8:49 AM   #47
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To me, a woman open to an affair is very obvious, like wearing a flashing neon light around her neck. I was unaware of the behavior prior to my wife's affair or maybe I just didn't pay attention.

Grooming, I believe is bogus, the truth is many men just throw out bull$##t then zero in on the women who respond. No special skills or insight, just plain ole numbers game. Flirt with 15 women and one will respond then zero in. Push her boundaries, if she accepts you push again. It's not grooming, it's fishing with 15 poles and taking whatever bits.
I believe in the grooming by a predatory OM.

Why?

You see George Clooney can walk into any club and straight
up ask a women to come back to his house now and he will
get a lot of action. He does not need to groom.

There are a few woman that when asked, want to have sex and
the will say yes.

However most women will say no. So they have to be worked.
The OM uses the "friendship" play to get close and connect.
Many OM use this act on multiple women at the same time.

Why does the OM usually throw the WW under the bus when
her BH finds out?

Because it takes time to get a woman ready using the I am
your friend game. So he has the next WW to be is ripe to
be picked.

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Old 31st January 2018, 9:04 AM   #48
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To me, a woman open to an affair is very obvious, like wearing a flashing neon light around her neck.
What in a woman's behavior is "very obvious"? Can you describe that more specifically?

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If you're not open to it then you can't be groomed. Strengthen your resolve and whatever any other man attempts you won't be falling for it.
Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?
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Old 31st January 2018, 9:13 AM   #49
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I can, and I think there are several ways to tell.

This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.

But I can pick one out by observing them for a few minutes.

It is really obvious...
Thank you for trying to answer my question. This makes me so sad, I just want to weep after reading this. It feels like if a woman wants to remain virtuous (in men's eyes), she has to put on a straitjacket over her emotions at all times. Build a fortress and a moat with alligators around her heart.
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:32 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by BluesPower View Post
This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.
This doesnít explain happily married MOW. It also doesnít explain happy SOW. Not everyone needs to be in a love relationship to feel emotionally taken care of, at peace and content. Iíve mever felt more emotionally taken care of, at peace or content than when I was part of a feminist collective, married to the cause. As I was when I met xMM. My passion was what attracted him.

I donít flirt. Never have. And Iím not a talkative type, but if I wanted someone to listen, I had a whole bunch of women listening and affirming and doing all the emotional work I could have wanted. I had no unmet needs.

Your assumptions donít fit everyone.
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Old 31st January 2018, 11:21 AM   #51
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This doesnít explain happily married MOW. It also doesnít explain happy SOW. Not everyone needs to be in a love relationship to feel emotionally taken care of, at peace and content. Iíve mever felt more emotionally taken care of, at peace or content than when I was part of a feminist collective, married to the cause. As I was when I met xMM. My passion was what attracted him.

I donít flirt. Never have. And Iím not a talkative type, but if I wanted someone to listen, I had a whole bunch of women listening and affirming and doing all the emotional work I could have wanted. I had no unmet needs.

Your assumptions donít fit everyone.
No it doesn't.
, I respect BP's input, but imo things are way more complicated than that.
I always feel I attract much more attention when I'm happy. I think of the 3-4 first years of my relationship with my ex husband, I never goit hit on more than in those years. Besides being very young, I think iI was then pretty much glowing around the clock.
My AP turned partner and I met when I was in a pretty good place. He says that I looked so happy, he wanted to be a part of that too.
My marriage was ok back then, but being more than just my relationship, it is possible to be happy about other things.
BP, I have a problem with your method because it reduces women's experience and being to the man in their lives. There is so much more to a woman's life.
Mu ex husband and I went through some very difficult times, but that doesn't mean any guy could have started an affair with me.
So I get what you're saying, but I still think it's a very partial explanation.
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Old 31st January 2018, 11:52 AM   #52
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No it doesn't.
, I respect BP's input, but imo things are way more complicated than that.
I always feel I attract much more attention when I'm happy. I think of the 3-4 first years of my relationship with my ex husband, I never goit hit on more than in those years. Besides being very young, I think iI was then pretty much glowing around the clock.
My AP turned partner and I met when I was in a pretty good place. He says that I looked so happy, he wanted to be a part of that too.
My marriage was ok back then, but being more than just my relationship, it is possible to be happy about other things.
BP, I have a problem with your method because it reduces women's experience and being to the man in their lives. There is so much more to a woman's life.
Mu ex husband and I went through some very difficult times, but that doesn't mean any guy could have started an affair with me.
So I get what you're saying, but I still think it's a very partial explanation.
I never got hit on as much as I did when I was first married. I was really happy, and I guess it showed- unbeknownst to me, I was also pregnant, so maybe I was "glowing". That seemed to really attract guys, and I don;t know why. I'm usually think as a brick when it comes to being it on, so when say they were flirting, it couldn't have been more obvious if they had a flashing neon sign saying " I want to sleep with you".

Usually, I come off as pretty aloof and even unfriendly ( I am usually really nervous I.e.- terrified of people I don't know), so maybe I seemed more upbeat an approachable because I was really happy. It could be some saw it as a challenge, as I made it clear I was married and happy. The nice thing is that most guys, when they found out, seemed genuinely happy for me, and stopped the flirting right away.

That's just my own experience.

I don't like the idea of viewing all married men/women as predators, but some do act like it. Others seems to be just sort of going along and acting without even really thinking about it.

Either way, no one can control another's behavior, so if someone wants to protect themselves from being hurt, it pays to recognize signs that someone may be interested in more than friendship/ a colleague relationship. Self awareness is also important.
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:38 PM   #53
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Call it naÔvetť, but some people are swept in by a belief in the power of “love.” To me, the worst thing MM did was make me feel I had actually found some sort of special love that I had never felt before or ever would again. Infidelity is wrong, but it is difficult when you are convinced that you’ve found some sort of pre-destined “love” to walk away from it.

Did he tell me to feel that way? No, of course not. In retrospect I was swept up in this addictive love while he had his feet firmly planted on the ground. That said, I believe he knew on some level that I was heavily invested while he was just having fun, an ego stroke. But ultimately self-interest and self-preservation were more important than thinking about anyone else’s feelings (mine or his wife’s). Ours was an EA, and he ended up breaking things off in a very cold way.

I am still struggling to get over feeling that not only was there no actual love involved (on his end anyway), but he must have cared very little for me. Not because he ended it, but because of the way he ended it. As for OW not having a “glow,” I am certain that my happiness, confidence, strength and glow are exactly what attracted this man to me. It is now that I’ve been through this experience of being discarded after betraying my own values and morals in favor of love conquering all (I’m sure aided by unresolved childhood wounds that I’d hazard to guess haunt many people on these boards and make us extra vulnerable to these types of situations) that I feel my glow has been dulled and I don’t know how to get it back.

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Old 31st January 2018, 1:52 PM   #54
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Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?
Because women are the ones complaining about being groomed and can't seem to resist a man. You can only control yourself not others.
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Old 31st January 2018, 4:03 PM   #55
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Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?
Because in evolutionary terms, women are the gatekeepers of sexual activity: women do the selecting of males whose genes they think (unconsciously) are worth having offspring with. It is, except in cases of forced sex, the woman who says whether sex is going to occur.

That doesn’t mean society shouldn’t demand different behaviour from men, and it does that using social censure.

I also think when younger or naive women become involved in affairs, despite knowing the man is married, that their unconscious is usually involved and they are projecting their hopes onto a man who rationally, isn’t a great use of their precious time, but who may be projecting his own issues onto her, very often.

A person more integrated and aware of his/her shadow would be less likely to get embroiled in an affair which is romantic and full of hope. So in that sense, I think there can be an element of grooming behaviour simply because the vulnerability is ignored for expediency’s sake.

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Old 31st January 2018, 4:30 PM   #56
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Because in evolutionary terms, women are the gatekeepers of sexual activity: women do the selecting of males whose genes they think (unconsciously) are worth having offspring with. It is, except in cases of forced sex, the woman who says whether sex is going to occur.
To expand on that point: From an evolutionary and cultural perspective, males do the courting. That is why I am hesitant to state that any instance where a male is trying to attract a mate and makes advances, he is "grooming" her. If that was the case, any relationship that went south and the man initiated the break up, you could say he was "grooming" the female. I don't think that would be accurate because "grooming" implies bad faith in regards to his intent in making the advances not the advances in and of themselves. To conclude his intent was malicious because he would have never had made advances is a logical fallacy. As Axl Rose put it, "Cause nothing lasts forever, and we both know hearts can change."
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Old 31st January 2018, 7:50 PM   #57
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What in a woman's behavior is "very obvious"? Can you describe that more specifically?



Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?
#1 The touching. Stroking the arms and back, finger tips that linger.
Sometimes I want to say "Did you enjoy that?
#2 The hugs. Platonic until you feel the fingernails in your back.
#3 They stand way too close to You
#4. Commenting on your smell
#5. Always stopping by my office for trivial information.
#6 Constant invites to Happy Hour
#7 Exposed cleavage at work. Really? You wore that to work?

Today, the onus is on Men. You dare not touch a woman even casually. Whereas if you reverse my gender, I have always been "sexually assaulted/groped/unwanted touching. #YouToo

This is not to trivialize the movement, but it is hypocritical to act like one doesn't know that SOME women are just as aggressive as men.

What woman? You know, the one you talk about at happy hour.
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Old 1st February 2018, 12:30 AM   #58
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I looked at all the women at work today...I studied each closely and guess what I saw? Busy woman working and too boot the men were as well! I will admit neither man or woman had a particular glow BUT that's because I live in a very rainy province in Canada😄
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Old 1st February 2018, 2:36 AM   #59
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I looked at all the women at work today...I studied each closely and guess what I saw? Busy woman working and too boot the men were as well! I will admit neither man or woman had a particular glow BUT that's because I live in a very rainy province in Canada😄
Same here. Rainy county in England. I Ďglowí after Iíve run 18 miles but I am also sweaty, muddy and generally not nice to be near 😋

IME that glow has really nothing to do with sex, love or attention. It comes from being happy in yourself and with yourself.
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Old 1st February 2018, 2:40 AM   #60
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Cullen - I agree that some women can seem predatory in the ways you mention but I think it is often less about grooming, more about enjoying the effect they are having. For most mature women that desire to stir up a reaction in men fades away.
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