How to avoid cheating spouses/affairs

[sandylee1]

<Moderation Note: Content moved from a specific topic to a more general discussion not relevant to that topic.>

 

I used to think it was mostly married men who cheated, but I found it to be just as many married women.

 

The difference I've found, is that MW are usually cheating with another MM. By and large a single man isn't going to sit around and pine for a MW the way OWs do. He's in it for the easy NSA sex.

 

I have also developed a degree of cynicism over the years and because cheating is so rampant.

 

My point is this isn't a male only issue. Men aren't the only untrustworthy ones. As far as integrity and trustworthiness, as the OW is not that different than the MM.

 

Some men have encountered women cheaters in more than one relationship and they feel like you do.

 

I kind of agree (although it's an outdated notion), that the ease of sleeping around/casual sex has added to this.

 

Gone are the days when a women wouldn't sleep with a man who she wasn't in a committed relationship with /who wasn't going to marry her.

 

These days it's very easy for men to get women to have sex with, a little sweet talking and their in there. As long as women are willing to have sex with MM, then they'll continue to cheat. Simple!

 

Some will resort to prostitutes, but there's always a willing naive, vulnerable, lacking in confidence, gullible, perhaps even desperate woman if the MM try hard enough.

Edited May 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[jah526]

Some will resort to prostitutes, but there's always a willing naive, vulnerable, lacking in confidence, gullible, perhaps even desperate woman if the MM try hard enough.

 

I guess this is the part I don't quite get. There is a beautiful, sweet, loving, and willing woman STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. Why in the world does he need to go scraping the bottom of the barrel for desperate women or prostitutes?

[somanymistakes]

Some are bored with just one woman and/or enjoy variety.

 

Others are married to a wife who is not "beautiful, sweet, loving, and willing"

[sandylee1]

I guess this is the part I don't quite get. There is a beautiful, sweet, loving, and willing woman STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. Why in the world does he need to go scraping the bottom of the barrel for desperate women or prostitutes?

 

He may want kinky sex, that he won't ask his wife for or she refuses it.

He may just be a cheating person and that's his character.

 

He may just be a selfish man who forever wants his ego massaged and only money will do that.

 

He doesn't need to worry about satisfying the pro. It's all about him.

 

Some men (and women) want it all. In truth, these people have no business getting married, because they do not and cannot adhere to the concept of monogamy.

 

But they do... Because it gives them status in society. They go on to have children, again to seem like the great family man.

 

Career success just doesn't seem like enough, if you have nobody to share it with.

 

I'm not saying being single is a bad thing... For some people it's the best thing.

 

Marriage/life partnerships and family are a sense of pride. These men want that, but also want to sleep around.

 

I don't understand why resisting the advances of a MM is so difficult, to the point one looses faith in all men.

[KathL]

I really think men have a different way of viewing sex than women do. I guess the married men who cheat believe it's not really hurting anyone since emotions aren't involved (usually). It's just a little harmless fun as long as no one knows about it. MM told me various things - it's natural, it's just for fun, it's stress relief. He loves his wife so this would fit into the category of recreational sports for him, probably. However, they seem to be able to completely block out that the APs are real people with feelings, and not just sex toys for their enjoyment.

 

Sometimes I think people had it right in the old days. Don't sleep with him until you're married, and after a good long courtship. If he's willing to risk giving up half his assets to you one day, then he PROBABLY loves you.

Well I tend to agree that if he loves you or if he can't lose you or if he really thinks you are so darn worth it, he will marry you. However, marrying you doesn't mean he will stop fooling around if he is a serial cheater.

 

I'm not sure if I should feel happy or sad if he marries me and gives me everything (at the risk of losing half of his assets) yet he thinks its okay to be screwing some chicks whom he is obviously not going to get emotional with because he loves me

[KathL]

I'm 29 too and feel the same way! Starting to get super cautious in every relationship I start although I do feel that everyone deserves a chance so I don't want to be jaded and ruin it incase he is the most amazing guy...ha.

 

What's your process for identifying them in the early stages? I don't want to be broken from all the disappointment I have experienced, although I'm really starting to doubt that even happy healthy relationships exist without infidelity..

Watch out for those who travel a lot or those who work at irregular hours to hit deadlines. But then again, i know some men holding 9-5 jobs are still able to keep mistresses around without the wives finding out.

 

Also watch out for those who are good with words, those who always try to break the rules thinking that they could always get away with it. And those who crave for power and greater height of successes.

 

Again, these are solely based on my dealings.

[Overtaxed]

I really think men have a different way of viewing sex than women do. I guess the married men who cheat believe it's not really hurting anyone since emotions aren't involved (usually). It's just a little harmless fun as long as no one knows about it. MM told me various things - it's natural, it's just for fun, it's stress relief. He loves his wife so this would fit into the category of recreational sports for him, probably. However, they seem to be able to completely block out that the APs are real people with feelings, and not just sex toys for their enjoyment.

 

Sometimes I think people had it right in the old days. Don't sleep with him until you're married, and after a good long courtship. If he's willing to risk giving up half his assets to you one day, then he PROBABLY loves you.

 

We do, without question, view sex very differently than women. I'm probably on the extreme end of this, but, for me, sex with almost every woman other than my wife was just an enjoyable pastime. Just like going for a walk in the woods, or working on a car, something I enjoyed doing to spend some time. I'd say there weren't really emotions involved, but that would be understating it; there were no emotions involved. I saw these women as "friends", someone who enjoyed doing the same things I did (sex), not at all as soulmates or someone to spend my life with.

 

I doubt it's that he's "blocking out" that the OW is a real person, it's just he's coming at it from his perspective. He's a real person too and loves the excitement and sex from the affair. He figures the OW feels the same way (and sometimes, he might be right, most of the time, it's dead wrong). I always figured that women knew what I was telling them to sleep with them was just a bunch of lines; I've since learned that women really do put stock in a man saying "I love you"; even when it's completely obvious that almost could not be the case (we met each other 3 days ago, and now I love you?? Come on).

[KathL]

We do, without question, view sex very differently than women. I'm probably on the extreme end of this, but, for me, sex with almost every woman other than my wife was just an enjoyable pastime. Just like going for a walk in the woods, or working on a car, something I enjoyed doing to spend some time. I'd say there weren't really emotions involved, but that would be understating it; there were no emotions involved. I saw these women as "friends", someone who enjoyed doing the same things I did (sex), not at all as soulmates or someone to spend my life with.

 

I doubt it's that he's "blocking out" that the OW is a real person, it's just he's coming at it from his perspective. He's a real person too and loves the excitement and sex from the affair. He figures the OW feels the same way (and sometimes, he might be right, most of the time, it's dead wrong). I always figured that women knew what I was telling them to sleep with them was just a bunch of lines; I've since learned that women really do put stock in a man saying "I love you"; even when it's completely obvious that almost could not be the case (we met each other 3 days ago, and now I love you?? Come on).

You see, its perfectly fine to be upfront about it being NSA. But some men knowing how vulnerable these women are, would still dish out seemingly sincere compliments, offer you bunch of affectionate gestures (i.e. cuddles, late night talks) then exclaim how much they miss you so on and so forth, just so he could continue getting free sex because he knows women dig all these. I met my ex-MM when I was 27 years old and no man had made me feel the way he did. Not many of us going into it knew what we had got ourselves into. Were we supposed to feel indifferent and cynical when we first started getting ourselves involved in this whole thing? But now, I'm sure as hell cynical. Bottom line is many of them don't have to do what they do to get more sex but then again, we probably wouldn't stick around long if it weren't for the fabricated chemistry, connection and emotional closeness.

Edited April 25, 2017 by KathL

[Overtaxed]

You see, its perfectly fine to be upfront about it being NSA. But some men knowing how vulnerable these women are, would still dish out seemingly sincere compliments, offer you bunch of affectionate gestures (i.e. cuddles, late night talks) then exclaim how much they miss you so on and so forth, just so he could continue getting free sex because he knows women dig all these. I met my ex-MM when I was 27 years old and no man had made me feel the way he did. Not many of us going into it knew what we had got ourselves into. Were we supposed to feel indifferent and cynical when we first started getting ourselves involved in this whole thing? But now, I'm sure as hell cynical. Bottom line is many of them don't have to do what they do to get more sex but then again, we probably wouldn't stick around long if it weren't for the fabricated chemistry, connection and emotional closeness.

 

Always be cynical of words. Words are cheap, they always have been, they always will be. Look at actions. If, in your case, your xMM had met you and 4 weeks after meeting you, brought over divorce papers that he had presented to his wife, those are actions. If he moves out, that's an action. If he puts down a deposit on a new house/condo for you to live in together, that's an action. These are the things that are REAL, words are at best, cheap, at worst, completely fake and used to manipulate.

 

[]

Edited May 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[sandylee1]

You can never 100% avoid ending up with a serial cheat, because people change and they lie and are sneaky.

 

It's not about how hard it is to say no to advances from MM but how to avoid from ending up with one who sleeps around even with the least attractive girl in the room in the

future.

 

Its like trying to say how do you avoid marrying an abuser. These people hide their true selves. If they showed their true colours, nobody would touch them with a a bargepole.

 

When a person sets out to deceive you, they are steps ahead of you.

[James78]

[]In my opinion the only person who is innocent in that scenario is the person being cheated on. All the the man (in this case) shoulders the most of the responsibility the OW should also acept her part.

 

[]

Edited May 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[sandylee1]

[]

 

It amazes how so many OW continue to place themselves as the victims, in a consenting affair.

 

When you can't call your boyfriend, because his wife may be around, you have a problem right there.

 

There was no coercion into you being in the relationship.

 

Like I said..cheating is not specific to men, although I get that your experience is with men.

 

Deep down, many cheaters are insecure and suffer from low self esteem, which they cover through the cheating.

 

They've seen poor examples through their parents affairs and they carry on and do the same.

 

In some cases, cheating is as simple as selfishness. In others, it's much deeper than that.

 

Experiences in childhood, adolescence and in later life often have a large part to play in why a serial cheat is a serial cheat.

Edited May 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Threadjack cleanup

[jah526]

To be honest, I think we women know who the players are. The trouble is that players are good at the game, and they know what we want to hear. A lot of them are charismatic and physically attractive, and you start to think, wow, this guy really likes me? It's an ego boost.

 

I think what you want to look for in a man is kindness. A kind man, or really a kind person, is not going to intentionally hurt someone else because it would hurt them to do so. It takes some time to see this in someone. But I would say one indicator of empathy is this - does he listen to you? Because listening takes time and patience and a genuine interest. Players don't have the time or interest.

[freengreen]

To be honest, I think we women know who the players are. The trouble is that players are good at the game, and they know what we want to hear. A lot of them are charismatic and physically attractive, and you start to think, wow, this guy really likes me? It's an ego boost.

 

I think what you want to look for in a man is kindness. A kind man, or really a kind person, is not going to intentionally hurt someone else because it would hurt them to do so. It takes some time to see this in someone. But I would say one indicator of empathy is this - does he listen to you? Because listening takes time and patience and a genuine interest. Players don't have the time or interest.

My one pretended to listen. Looks like these players have upgraded their baits. But I always noticed, he couldnt do it for long... their fake empathy wears off soon.

[Overtaxed]

To be honest, I think we women know who the players are. The trouble is that players are good at the game, and they know what we want to hear. A lot of them are charismatic and physically attractive, and you start to think, wow, this guy really likes me? It's an ego boost.

 

I think what you want to look for in a man is kindness. A kind man, or really a kind person, is not going to intentionally hurt someone else because it would hurt them to do so. It takes some time to see this in someone. But I would say one indicator of empathy is this - does he listen to you? Because listening takes time and patience and a genuine interest. Players don't have the time or interest.

 

That's a pretty good tell (kindness) and one that I agree with. The other thing, sadly for women, is that the characteristics that make you attracted to men (in general here, obviously everyone is different) are the same ones that make them likely to cheat. That guy who's friends with everyone, wealthy, good looking, life of the party? Yeah, he's your dream. He's also a lot of other women's dream. And he cheats, a lot, most of the time.

 

I work with a lot of very wealthy and powerful men (mostly not all that good looking though). They cheat, a lot. Wealth seems to corrupt men more than women, and a whole lot of wealthy men use that power to bed women.

 

The sad thing is that women are typically most attracted to the kind of men who are the most likely to cheat. I know, I used to be one. I didn't cheat, but I was that guy; good looking, smooth, say anything. And it worked, over and over again. Add in wealth, and it's even worse.

 

Select men based on their character and you'll do fine. Select them based on what makes you hot right now, and you will very likely wind up in a world of hurt. If he makes you that hot, he's making a whole lot of other ladies that hot too. Why do you think that the tales of cheating are constant from the celeb crowd; good looking, rich and powerful. And about 0 of them can keep it in their pants (and remember, we only hear about the ones that make the news, for every one you hear about, there's probably 10 others that the wife or news media doesn't know).

[savingshards]

Look at MM's wives.. they have got a lifetime of security, promises and commitment from MMs. As long as they don't know anything about MMs cheating behind their back, they can still be blissfully happy.

 

Oh my dear...I am married to a serial cheater who finally came clean, and has done everything he can to write a new marriage for us.

 

Even though I did not know about his various affairs throughout the years (and I honestly did not - not even one little, tiny bit did I ever suspect), I was far from blissfully happy. We both now realizes that he had lies upon lies, and was always working hard to make sure he didn't reveal one of his lies, so that deeply impacted any possibility of emotional intimacy between us. It was a heavy weight for him to bear, so we didn't have a lot of joy...rather a lot of passive aggressive communication...jockeying for position, etc.

 

With all the lies finally out of the way, and deep work individually and together, I now have the marriage beyond my dreams. I had no idea this world of infidelity was so vast, and living right in my home, so I understand your fear...and don't quite know what to tell you. My husband and I now work with distressed couples...we coach and speak at retreats and put on workshops...and it is pretty common.

 

If a man cannot be vulnerable and transparent with you...it may be because he has something to hide. Not saying it is always so, but something to consider.

Edited May 1, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[darkbloom]

I'm so jaded, I think everyone cheats.

[James78]

I'm so jaded, I think everyone cheats.

 

Let me assure you that we don't.

[Overtaxed]

I'm so jaded, I think everyone cheats.

 

Sadly, I'm right there with you. I suppose it's a combination of my rigor in mathematics and statistics (the stats are damning for cheating in marriage, AND there's a lot of people who will lie, even to researchers. If the admitted number is close 50-60%, what's the real number? Close to 100, IMHO), my dim view of most people in general (which is often backed up by actions to justify my skepticism), and my own experience with women when I was younger and "playing" them (the ease of getting women in bed when you follow "the script").

 

I knew, standing at the alter with my wife, there was a very good chance that we'd be in an A at some point. I expected it would be mine, I'm a very sexual person, I'm relatively good looking, I travel a lot for work, I'm relatively well off, and I'm weak in pushing off the attention of women. I put in place a plan that's worked for me; summed up, don't put yourself in situations where it can happen, and it won't happen. It's worked to date. But, instead, it was her A that's rocked our marriage, and, no, no amount of "this is normal" or "this happens to most people in a marriage" has helped with the pain. I know both of those statements are true, but, it still hurts like he**.

 

I can tell you, it's pretty clear to me (and I suspect other men) when meeting and interacting with men who will/is cheating and who won't (or, more correctly, who's more and less likely). The issue for women, the more likely he is to cheat, the more likely you are to be attracted to him.

[KathL]

Sadly, I'm right there with you. I suppose it's a combination of my rigor in mathematics and statistics (the stats are damning for cheating in marriage, AND there's a lot of people who will lie, even to researchers. If the admitted number is close 50-60%, what's the real number? Close to 100, IMHO), my dim view of most people in general (which is often backed up by actions to justify my skepticism), and my own experience with women when I was younger and "playing" them (the ease of getting women in bed when you follow "the script").

 

I knew, standing at the alter with my wife, there was a very good chance that we'd be in an A at some point. I expected it would be mine, I'm a very sexual person, I'm relatively good looking, I travel a lot for work, I'm relatively well off, and I'm weak in pushing off the attention of women. I put in place a plan that's worked for me; summed up, don't put yourself in situations where it can happen, and it won't happen. It's worked to date. But, instead, it was her A that's rocked our marriage, and, no, no amount of "this is normal" or "this happens to most people in a marriage" has helped with the pain. I know both of those statements are true, but, it still hurts like he**.

 

I can tell you, it's pretty clear to me (and I suspect other men) when meeting and interacting with men who will/is cheating and who won't (or, more correctly, who's more and less likely). The issue for women, the more likely he is to cheat, the more likely you are to be attracted to him.

My ex-MM is charming, fit, good looking and successful. Sighs.

Anyway, what solutions do you think would work for marriages in this modern era? I'm thinking of open relationships and a swinging lifestyle.

[Overtaxed]

My ex-MM is charming, fit, good looking and successful. Sighs.

Anyway, what solutions do you think would work for marriages in this modern era? I'm thinking of open relationships and a swinging lifestyle.

 

If I knew the answer to that question, I'd be rich. First off, I think a return to "fault based divorce" would be a good move. If you know, as a man or woman, that cheating will greatly reduce your chances in court, I think it would help as a deterrent. In my case, my W was having what most would consider an exit affair; had she known that the A would have been extremely costly in court, perhaps she would have asked for a D first which could have been the starting point (instead of an A) for us to get help and work on our marriage.

 

Other than that, perhaps more separation and understanding of how men/women work in the workplace? A ton of affairs seem to start there (my W's did), and it's just "too easy" for women to get pulled into that. No clue what that means, other than "don't socialize as much". Also, on that same bent, perhaps a more realistic view of male/female "friendships"? Having opposite sex "friends" is setting yourself up for failure, IMHO.

[somanymistakes]

If I knew the answer to that question, I'd be rich. First off, I think a return to "fault based divorce" would be a good move.

 

I just want to specify here that part of the problem with fault-based divorce was that in some systems, you were literally NOT ALLOWED to get divorced unless you could prove a 'fault'. Which led to whole side businesses being set up to help you have FAKE affairs just so you could get out of the marriage.

 

Punishing people for marital misbehavior does not require a return to strictly fault-based divorce. Even now there are many locations where proving adultery DOES have an impact on the divorce settlement. There are several states in the US where you can sue an AP for every penny they've got.

 

Other than that, perhaps more separation and understanding of how men/women work in the workplace? A ton of affairs seem to start there (my W's did), and it's just "too easy" for women to get pulled into that. No clue what that means, other than "don't socialize as much".

 

I don't know the statistics on this at all, but I'm curious whether it makes any difference if:

- spouses share the same workplace?

- spouses regularly visit each other's workplace, so everyone knows about them?

 

It seems like part of what makes workplaces a breeding ground for affairs is spending a LOT of time in the company of an attractive other, sharing time and experiences that your spouse cannot be part of. Certain careers that involve a large degree of travel time far from home increase that sense of separation between the spouses, and make it so much easier for someone to stray while thinking they can get away with it and keep it separate from their home life.

 

If you marry a pilot you're probably in for trouble.

 

Also, on that same bent, perhaps a more realistic view of male/female "friendships"? Having opposite sex "friends" is setting yourself up for failure, IMHO.

 

This still raises the issue of what the heck are bisexual people supposed to do?

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't really agree that kindness is a good indicator of anything. My most recent ex was kind. He was always willing to help people and had genuine empathy. He listened. But...he also lied a lot. He didn't have bad intentions when lying. He didn't want to hurt anyone so he told everyone what they wanted to hear. He also had poor boundaries and was generally spineless. So out came some very big lies and poor choices.

 

I'm afraid that kindness without integrity is meaningless.

[FoundMyStrength]

I don't really agree that kindness is a good indicator of anything. My most recent ex was kind. He was always willing to help people and had genuine empathy. He listened. But...he also lied a lot. He didn't have bad intentions when lying. He didn't want to hurt anyone so he told everyone what they wanted to hear. He also had poor boundaries and was generally spineless. So out came some very big lies and poor choices.

 

I'm afraid that kindness without integrity is meaningless.

 

 

Agreed. My xMM was kind. He was sweet. He listened.

 

Unfortunately he also was confused, avoidant, and had extremely poor boundaries. He also lived a little bit in la-la land, thinking that somehow he could keep his marriage and keep his very special summer love/secret email friend. At times I felt like the only adult in the room, the only one that recognized how terrible this was and how much worse it could become.

 

Even kind people can have just the right mixture of emotional immaturity and lack of integrity.

[JuneL]

I don't really agree that kindness is a good indicator of anything. My most recent ex was kind. He was always willing to help people and had genuine empathy. He listened. But...he also lied a lot. He didn't have bad intentions when lying. He didn't want to hurt anyone so he told everyone what they wanted to hear. He also had poor boundaries and was generally spineless. So out came some very big lies and poor choices.

 

I'm afraid that kindness without integrity is meaningless.

 

He sounds like a people pleaser and someone without a spine and someone who is conflict avoidant.