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Why would you want to marry?


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I am not a young man anymore, not old but also not young. I'm 44 years old and when I met my wife marriage meant a different thing that it means today.

I have a 5 years old son and if he ever ask me I will advise him not to marry.

My personal experience with marriage has been good, I have a wonderful woman who loves me and is a great mother to my son but when I look around I feel lucky. Many of my friends are divorced and have little to not access to see their kids while paying huge amounts of Alimony.

 

I searched on internet some statistics (available for anyone of you to check) and between 50% and 75% of marriages end in divorce (depending on geography). Between 60% and 90% of all the divorces are initiated by women (again depending of geography) being the major reason for this that they have found someone else.

An average of 80% of the divorce cases end up with custody in favor of the women and in more than the 90% of the cases there is alimony to be paid by the men to the women.

 

Can some of the young men of today explain to me why would they choose to marry? Well sadistically they don't choose to marry anymore (as they did in the past) , the number of weddings have dropped between 15% to 30% depending of the geography.

 

Marriage is an long term investment that will have most of the long term costs for the men and not for the women. When men want to divorce they are trapped by the fear to lose their kids and the economical burden when women are rewarded if they choose to divorce.

 

what is your opinion about this facts?

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I searched on internet some statistics (available for anyone of you to check) and between 50% and 75% of marriages end in divorce (depending on geography). Between 60% and 90% of all the divorces are initiated by women (again depending of geography) being the major reason for this that they have found someone else.

 

No that is not the major reason. The current thinking is the lack of gender equality in the institution of marriage, as opposed to that experienced in the rest of modern life, is the reason married women bail...

Non married couples have a 50:50 M/F split as regards breaking up.

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I'm older than you and marriage has not changed in my time. The biggest changes I know of happened when a) no-fault divorce came into play (Where I live, it was 1975). b) when women were able to earn sufficient income so that they could support themselves and would not have to stay in an unhappy marriage. and c) single parent pensions.

 

Anyway, I'm a woman. I am once divorced (early 20's marriage, no kids - and FWIW, my ex-h took more money out of that marriage than I did) and now 25 years common law (with two late teens kids) with my now partner. I wouldn't marry again because I don't see the point of it. 1. Our defacto union is recognised by the state. 2. And I know through experience that marriage is easy to end and does not reflect commitment to a partner.

Edited by basil67
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No that is not the major reason. The current thinking is the lack of gender equality in the institution of marriage, as opposed to that experienced in the rest of modern life, is the reason married women bail...

Non married couples have a 50:50 M/F split as regards breaking up.

 

Sadistically the major reason for women to file for divorce is that they have found someone else, that is to be found in various sources through out the internet.

 

Anyhow, lets make the assumption that you are right, I still don't see any reason why men should marry if for whatever reason they will end up being a visitor to their kids and paying huge amounts of cash to their ex...

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OP, you won't find many young men posting on this board, though there have been some, and a few were pretty firm in their perspective about not marrying, though they appeared to enjoy relationships greatly. This has also been reflected in real life with friend's children and grandchildren. Few if any have gotten married young and some are still unmarried, but not single, into their 30's. Some also have children of non-marital relations. I've had tenants in the under 35 group like that too. Complete, and stable, family units with unmarried parents. Having been married and divorced myself, in our current relatively independent and highly mobile and capitalistic society, I see traction for the perspective I've seen from young people regarding marriage.

 

On a personal note, a rainstorm woke me up here in the middle of the night and when I went to fire up the hot spot for the internet here in the forest, I saw a few texts from my best friend's wife on my phone telling me they loved me and missed me. Women can be nice like that. Do I want to get married again? Nah, not really. I like people, most of the time, but not enough to marry. BTDT. A young person will have their hormones driving them without the experience from the other end. Still, I'm pretty impressed by the ones I come across these days. Good on them.

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The current thinking is the lack of gender equality in the institution of marriage

What gender inequality in the institution of marriage? Last I looked, there is absolutely no mention of "male", "female", "husband", "wife" or any other gender-specific words used in the marriage (or divorce) laws.

 

The fact is that most husbands get a worse deal out of divorce because most men earn more than their wives, on average women have more child-care duties, and women more often sacrifice their careers to become child carers. If the man gives up his job to be a full time dad whilst the wife keeps her high flying city job then you can bet your bottom dollar that the court would award just as much alimony to the husband as he would to the wife if the situations were reversed.

 

That is nothing to do with lack of gender equality in the institution of marriage, it is the couple's free and personal choice to promote the husband's earnings whilst sacrificing the wife's.

 

 

Well back on topic... why would anyone want to marry. Well the obvious and cliche answer is for love. People don't marry for financial gain and they don't assess the risks statistically. They get married because they love their partner and want to spend the rest of their lives together.

 

As people get divorced, see your friends divorce, or just get older and wiser, then they tend to look at it more from a logical viewpoint, as you are here.

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What gender inequality in the institution of marriage? Last I looked, there is absolutely no mention of "male", "female", "husband", "wife" or any other gender-specific words used in the marriage (or divorce) laws.

 

The fact is that most husbands get a worse deal out of divorce because most men earn more than their wives, on average women have more child-care duties, and women more often sacrifice their careers to become child carers. If the man gives up his job to be a full time dad whilst the wife keeps her high flying city job then you can bet your bottom dollar that the court would award just as much alimony to the husband as he would to the wife if the situations were reversed.

 

That is nothing to do with lack of gender equality in the institution of marriage, it is the couple's free and personal choice to promote the husband's earnings whilst sacrificing the wife's.

 

 

Well back on topic... why would anyone want to marry. Well the obvious and cliche answer is for love. People don't marry for financial gain and they don't assess the risks statistically. They get married because they love their partner and want to spend the rest of their lives together.

 

As people get divorced, see your friends divorce, or just get older and wiser, then they tend to look at it more from a logical viewpoint, as you are here.

 

Thing is that you can love someone without having to commit your future to her, I think most people marry because they think is the "normal" thing to do when you love someone, that is a cultural heritage we got from our elders when marriage meant something, today is a different ball game and we (fathers) do our part in educating our children telling them why they should NOT marry.

You can live in cohabitation with the person you think you love your whole life or till you find yourself loving someone else or till the other person find herself loving someone else. The thing is that the burden that comes with cohabitation is much smaller than it is with marriage.

Love used to be something that will last forever, now is just till "I love you but I am not in love anymore".

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You can live in cohabitation with the person you think you love your whole life or till you find yourself loving someone else or till the other person find herself loving someone else. The thing is that the burden that comes with cohabitation is much smaller than it is with marriage.

 

Now that we have no fault divorce, the same could be said for marriage. Stick around till you don't want to do it anymore.

 

Love used to be something that will last forever, now is just till "I love you but I am not in love anymore".

 

Love hasn't changed. The thing which has changed is that divorce has become socially acceptable. There were plenty of unhappy marriages back in the old days. Either that, or we died much earlier, meaning less time to fall out of love.

 

It's also worth noting that marrying for love is a modern concept. Back 100+ years ago, people married others who they got on well enough with and who were suitable. Or they married for land or to link families.

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I looked up reasons why women leave marriages and found as many different generic reasons as there are articles.

 

The main reason I left my first marriage was neglect.

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I agree with my favorite podcaster - who says that if she was a man now a days she would become homosexual or stay single.

 

IMO, the only guys in this day/age who marry are seriously naive or desperate.

 

Majority of women now a days have no qualities that make them wife material. They see anything that is "nurturing" (cooking, cleaning, actually "raising" their kids and showing affection/attention to their man) as something "beneath" them.

 

Everything must be outsourced. Daycare/nannies/relatives to raise their kids, maid service to clean, and eating out. Oh and, husband is a dirty pig if he wants sex...cuz she's got better things to do - like her "job/career".

 

Oh yes, there's your "gender equality", like Sandberg (Fakebook CEO) says, her husband is her "partner"...not her "lover", "man", "babe". So, marriages now a days are two "roommates", "partners". See, now that women can earn a living, they have even more power and demands in a marriage....and, since they know their power, they disrespect their men. The other day my fav podcaster had a call from a eoman upset that hubby wasn't making much as her - despite him being a great dad...so, women still want to deoend financially on a man and have the courts rule in their favor when it comes to custody, assets and alimony - yet wanna hold onto their earnings/stuff and have nothing to bring to a marriage (the sex, cooking, cleaning).

 

Then, they let themselves go. They get overweight and lazy...and, if you dare say something, you don't love them for who they are. Honey, like my favorite podcaster said, he loves "you", not the "fat".

 

Then you have elders who don't counsel the young people. They don't pass on any advice into how to be a a good spouse.

 

Then, people don't do premarital counseling - which would probably impart on them that elderly wisdom and teach them that there's more practicalities (ie religious beliefs, managing finances, communication) that comes with picking a spouse rather than you two having fun on dates and liking the same popcorn.

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Now that we have no fault divorce, the same could be said for marriage. Stick around till you don't want to do it anymore.

 

Love used to be something that will last forever, now is just till "I love you but I am not in love anymore". Love hasn't changed. The thing which has changed is that divorce has become socially acceptable. There were plenty of unhappy marriages back in the old days. Either that, or we died much earlier, meaning less time to fall out of love. It's also worth noting that marrying for love is a modern concept. Back 100+ years ago, people married others who they got on well enough with and who were suitable. Or they married for land or to link families

Funny thing how many of "unhappy marriages" there are today, right? Or the amount of "neglected marriages"...

When two people live together there will always be differences and rough times... the difference is that today people have such a high expectations and must have's that a relationships is doomed even before it starts. There is no intention to fight for the relationship, there is a perceived entitlement of permanent happiness that is unrealistic and people find themselves jumping from one relationship to the next one without ever filling the fulfillment they are seeking (Because it is not achievable due to the unrealistic expectations).

 

Don't think that men wouldn't want to divorce as much as women do (today's men have grown the same unrealistic expectations)...if they don't do it is because the face the ugly side of the divorce, economically and emotionally (custody of the children). Men stick to the marriage because they have to do it while women are encouraged to divorce because they know they will be at the winning end of the bargain.

Edited by fenix
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Marriage is now - more than ever - a bad deal for men, IMO. I would almost never recommend a man marry, but there can be exceptions, and there are some good marriages (perhaps 10% of all marriages). I am fortunate to be one of the fortunate exceptions - the second time around (so far, anyway!). It was a difficult decision, but ultimately was for pragmatic reasons (we were and are in love, but that's a lousy reason to marry!).

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Back in the day, women had no choice but to stick it out.

Social stigma associated with divorce, and essentially no career, meant she stayed no matter what (married women were not supposed to work, some women were forced to give up their job when they got married, or "women's careers" equalled menial low paid work). Therefore, she had to put up and shut up. Many women had literally nowhere to go - no money, no job, no freedom.

Men had to stick it out too, to be fair.

 

Back in the day it didn't matter if she was unhappy as long as she stayed in position as wife, housekeeper and mother, all was well.

 

Why Women Leave Men

"Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men."

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Back in the day, women had no choice but to stick it out.

Social stigma associated with divorce, and essentially no career, meant she stayed no matter what (married women were not supposed to work, some women were forced to give up their job when they got married, or "women's careers" equalled menial low paid work). Therefore, she had to put up and shut up. Many women had literally nowhere to go - no money, no job, no freedom.

Men had to stick it out too, to be fair.

 

Back in the day it didn't matter if she was unhappy as long as she stayed in position as wife, housekeeper and mother, all was well.

 

Why Women Leave Men

"Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men."

 

As I said, lets accept your theory (I don't agree but for the sake of the argumentation lets go with it). Why would men want to marry women that are so easily feeling neglected and go ahead and risk their economy and emotional welfare? There is no incentive for men to getting married, sex is easy to get and if a man look for some temporary deepness in the relationship they can get it without getting married too... You know that there is a 50% to 75% chance that something is going to go wrong in the marriage and you will have to pay for it.... why should a man get married with today's divorce laws?

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People get married because they want to get married. Not because they've analysed the statistics and think it's a gamble worth taking.

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People get married because they want to get married. Not because they've analysed the statistics and think it's a gamble worth taking.

 

No, people get married because they have been given that cultural heritage and companionship structure. People actually get less and less married... In 2016 in There is almost as many divorces than marriages.

Marriage and divorce statistics - Statistics Explained

This is a trend that has a lot to do with analysis and with the advises of the fathers of my age to their children.

 

The cultural heritage is changing and so it is the % of people getting married.

Edited by fenix
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Why?

 

Because many women will not settle for being a life partner, doing all the things a wife would, bearing children and not being protected legally. In addition there could be religious reasons.

 

I for one would have accepted it and I wouldn't want my daughter to settle for less than what I view as the ultimate committed relationship.

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Why would men want to marry women that are so easily feeling neglected and go ahead and risk their economy and emotional welfare? There is no incentive for men to getting married, sex is easy to get and if a man look for some temporary deepness in the relationship they can get it without getting married too... You know that there is a 50% to 75% chance that something is going to go wrong in the marriage and you will have to pay for it.... why should a man get married with today's divorce laws?

 

The answer may not be to live in "bachelorhood" away from all those "sensitive" women, but for men in general to work on the marriage so that a woman does not feel so neglected she has to leave.

The goal posts shifted but men in general haven't embraced the change. Now it seems, some men have "solved" the problem by not wanting to play the game at all. But they are IMO just biting off their noses to spite their faces. Humans like to couple off, they need the safety and the security of stable bonding, take that away and you perhaps get generations of lonely old men.

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Why would any woman (atleast to me) would bear a mans child and not have his commitment for life with her.

 

 

First to me, marriage is the promise of being together through everything. receiving the mans name so I would share my child's and his last name. Making a future with each other.

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Just pick wisely who you marry to and have a pre-nup.

 

I was married for 15 years and divorced. I always thought I would never remarry and just live common-law till my ex-husband (father of my daughter) unexpectedly died 3 years ago and I was a witness how dangerous it is to live common-law and have children out of wedlock.

 

He had been living for 10 years with a woman and had a 9 year old daughter together. Because they were not legally married she was kept out of all decisions. She could not bury him, or decide what to do with his body, she was also denied all access to their bank accounts till the succession was finalized, she could not even put gas in her car and buy groceries.

 

Our daughter inherited their house, he had not put his common-law wife name on the deed. My daughter was 26 at the time she could not keep that big house in the country and there was no life insurance on the mortgage so she had to give the house back to the mortgager. My ex-husband common-law wife had to move out of their house of 10 years with only her clothes on her back. She was not allowed to take anything because they were not married.

 

It was a living hell for her. I, as the ex-wife of 12 years, had more power over his succession than she did. Indeed our old testament we had done 25 years ago when we were married over-powered everything even if we were divorced, again because they were not married.

 

My daughter was 1st in line for succession, I was second, my parents were 3rd. All this because they were not married and he had no current testament.

 

Yes, I would remarry just for that. I would be devastated to lose my life partner of 20-30 + years and not even have a saying on his funeral and not have a saying in his succession.

 

Being married is not about screwing anyone, it's about protecting both parties.

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Well sadistically they don't choose to marry anymore (as they did in the past) , the number of weddings have dropped between 15% to 30% depending of the geography.

 

Sadistically the major reason for women to file for divorce is that they have found someone else, that is to be found in various sources through out the internet.

 

One of the funnier autocorrects I've seen here. Unless that was your intended meaning :confused: ???

 

Mr. Lucky

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GunslingerRoland

We are driven to committed long term relationships. Marriage is a way we've institutionalized trying to keep these relationships together.

 

Women aren't always the winner in a divorce. Sure they may get more money out of it, but that is only in case where they've already sacrificed money or their career to the marriage.

 

Thing is that you can love someone without having to commit your future to her,

 

Sure you can, but if you aren't committing to the future, whether it's via a formal marriage or not, you always have one foot out the door. When you have problems you'll be done. I don't see how this is any better than people getting married, trying to make it work, and sometimes failing.

 

Love used to be something that will last forever, now is just till "I love you but I am not in love anymore".

 

Blind nostalgia for the past drives me nuts. No, love was not forever. Love was rarely even a part of marriages in the past. You stayed married because you had too, not because you wanted too.

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Yeah, back in the 60's, the earliest I remember, people who eschewed the conventions of society by living together or coupling and, especially, having children without being married were referred to as 'shacking up' or something similar by the rulers of the roost, the married people, churches and government. About the only people one heard or read about who got a divorce were celebrities or famous people. I don't think anyone, adults, I knew, got divorced until well into the 70's. That was probably due to strict indoctrination by the church that even the adults followed.

 

Then it all changed. Sexual revolution took hold for good in the late 60's, feminism and gender equality and freedom was solidified and off we went. The old school folks were dismissed as, well, the past. Rebellion was widespread. Families were split philosophically. Typical change stuff. I would opine very few of my demographic peers waited until being married to live together and I doubt any waited until marriage for sex. 'Shacking up' was commonplace. The marriage folks adjusted or were ignored if they were vocal. Life went on.

 

Now, with all the freedoms and general flexibility of social norms and peer pressure, about the only reason to get married is to gain the specific bucket of legal privileges it confers for the price of a marriage license and ceremony, which can be as simple or ornate as the couple desires. My parents rebelled and simply drove to Yuma and got a JOP marriage but still it was legal and they were married for life. Happy? IDK. Probably it was a lot like my M, good and bad and indifferent. They simply believed in the for life part, married or not, as a choice. My exW and I didn't, apparently. Choices.

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Being married is not about screwing anyone, it's about protecting both parties.
I imagine that very few people get married with the intention of screwing the other person over. The screwing over happens when things are going badly. Most women are not Billie Piper (divorced a millionaire and chose not to take any of his money). If things are going badly, they will take what they can get. Many men would do the same.

 

Personally, a marriage has to have minimal potential of screwing me over before I'll consider it.

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