norudder Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 This might be a little bit of a rant. I've learned so much through these threads and read them with different eyes now. So many people come here with pain, and selfdoubt and questions over people committed to others. Its almost funny in a sad way. I get it, obviously I'm here too. But we tear ourselves up over people who in the end we shouldnt be, all because we are too attached too late to realize the character of the person. If you stopped to look at it, if their actions arent matching their words, they are either a liar or a coward. Can you respect a liar? Respect a coward? Pity maybe, but respect? Is respect (mutual) an important ingredient for your love relationship? Given the choice to be alone, be with a coward, or with a liar- what do you really choose? Satu always says cheaters are just people who dont know what love is. You love them but do they really love you back? They say the words, they may have the strong feelings, but love is more than that. If they arent willing to do anything about the feelings, its not true love. Dont you want true love? Deserve true love? I know I do. “Cowardice rightly understood begins with selfishness and ends with shame.” - Jose Rizal “A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.” - Ghandi 3 Link to post Share on other sites
bummer Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 If you stopped to look at it, if their actions arent matching their words, they are either a liar or a coward. Can you respect a liar? Respect a coward? Pity maybe, but respect? Is respect (mutual) an important ingredient for your love relationship? Powerful stuff. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lilacwine Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 This might be a little bit of a rant. I've learned so much through these threads and read them with different eyes now. So many people come here with pain, and selfdoubt and questions over people committed to others. Its almost funny in a sad way. I get it, obviously I'm here too. But we tear ourselves up over people who in the end we shouldnt be, all because we are too attached too late to realize the character of the person. If you stopped to look at it, if their actions arent matching their words, they are either a liar or a coward. Can you respect a liar? Respect a coward? Pity maybe, but respect? Is respect (mutual) an important ingredient for your love relationship? Given the choice to be alone, be with a coward, or with a liar- what do you really choose? Satu always says cheaters are just people who dont know what love is. You love them but do they really love you back? They say the words, they may have the strong feelings, but love is more than that. If they arent willing to do anything about the feelings, its not true love. Dont you want true love? Deserve true love? I know I do. “Cowardice rightly understood begins with selfishness and ends with shame.” - Jose Rizal “A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.” - Ghandi You have raised a very fundamental question. Thank you. You're right. All the MMs here who deliver nothing but flowery words and empty promises are either liars or cowards. And it's true you'd be much much better off without them. Yes, my answer is I'd rather be alone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whatever29 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) My xMM was both a coward and a liar. I said to him at the end, Look in your heart and have the courage to do what you need to do. He thought I called him a coward. I said I didn't, but should've said you know you are. He was too much of a coward to break it off with me or tell his wife that he didn't love her. I accused im one day of wanting me to dump him so I don't think he can really love anyone because he doesn't respect or love himself. Many of these MM are broken people. I wouldn't want him now or ever for anything. Edited July 11, 2016 by whatever29 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lady2163 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I know you're speaking mainly of the relationships where one partner is cheating, but in relationships between single people, sometimes it takes a while before you realize how bad things are. I was with a narcissistic, alcoholic sociopath for 13 months. Trust me, he didn't start out by calling or showing up three hours late. He didn't "forget" his wallet on the first date. It was a gradual process that evolved into me wishing he would die (alcoholic and smoker) so I could be free of him. No, I didn't want to kill him or pay someone to do it, I was just convinced I'd never get him out of my life. I moved 1500 miles away when I caught him cheating. I did it in under a week. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) Sometimes they are the same - sometimes not. I can work (or deal) with a coward. It can be a passive reaction to fear, insecurity, self esteem, etc. Sometimes due to past hurts. You can help a person over come a weakness. Liars are much more difficult to accept or deal with. It is often a willful act. Harder to get this person to change. I know - I married one. Edited July 11, 2016 by dichotomy 3 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Here is the thing, you can't expect more from people then what you give to people. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I definetly go along with them being cowards, but quite often it's more a case of selfish, self centred thinking. It's wanting the best of both worlds at someone else's pain and expense, while you portray yourself as the stand up pillar of society. One day you're laughing and having fun times with your spouse and kids, the same day or next, you sneak off to your OW. Though the same applies to WW when she goes to OM. I think the cowards and seasoned liars are more those in LTAs, who merrily get along with their double life. Loving the feeling of wife and OW. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Alamo657 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 This might be a little bit of a rant. I've learned so much through these threads and read them with different eyes now. So many people come here with pain, and selfdoubt and questions over people committed to others. Its almost funny in a sad way. I get it, obviously I'm here too. But we tear ourselves up over people who in the end we shouldnt be, all because we are too attached too late to realize the character of the person. If you stopped to look at it, if their actions arent matching their words, they are either a liar or a coward. Can you respect a liar? Respect a coward? Pity maybe, but respect? Is respect (mutual) an important ingredient for your love relationship? Given the choice to be alone, be with a coward, or with a liar- what do you really choose? Satu always says cheaters are just people who dont know what love is. You love them but do they really love you back? They say the words, they may have the strong feelings, but love is more than that. If they arent willing to do anything about the feelings, its not true love. Dont you want true love? Deserve true love? I know I do. “Cowardice rightly understood begins with selfishness and ends with shame.” - Jose Rizal “A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave.” - Ghandi The true nature of courage is facing your own fears and overcome them. I developped a mindset where i only have respect for people who overcame challenge. Golden boy born in the purple and leading a successful life ? No respect. Beautiful woman who feigns to acknowledge that her beauty is 50% of her success ? No respect. Give me a person who suffered, fought, and came out as a greater person, and i'm totally impressed, and respectful. Respect is earned; those who get praised without having endured hardships are just curiosities born from chaos. They impress you because they are always riding the high waves, put them down and you'll see them for what they truely are : spineless. Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 The true nature of courage is facing your own fears and overcome them. I developped a mindset where i only have respect for people who overcame challenge. Golden boy born in the purple and leading a successful life ? No respect. Beautiful woman who feigns to acknowledge that her beauty is 50% of her success ? No respect. Give me a person who suffered, fought, and came out as a greater person, and i'm totally impressed, and respectful. Respect is earned; those who get praised without having endured hardships are just curiosities born from chaos. They impress you because they are always riding the high waves, put them down and you'll see them for what they truely are : spineless. I do understand your point Alamo but respectfully disagree. In my opinion, every person should be treated with respect, save a few.....up front and without effort. No person that I have met..privileged or not, is without strife, discord or some personal pain. Frankly, interacting with people reveals more commonalities than discord. Liars and cowards are usually people in a space of time that are somewhat lost. I will say, because I want to believe and have witnessed...most come around in due time and it is always best to not throw stones. Link to post Share on other sites
Larryville Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 We live in a time in human development where people are not given consequences of their lying and cowardice. Next time listen to a politician give a speech and when they say something you absolutely KNOW is a lie watch the people applaud. Watch how easily some lie about stuff that is not even necessary to lie about. The kind of stuff young immature kids lie about when telling the truth is MUCH easier. Same with folks who enter into relationships. If they have always been a liar or cheater and get kicked to the curb they simply move on to the next unwilling target. Way too many people are not self-aware enough to see or spot deception. If some folks grew up around deceit of deception maybe they think it is ok in some way. Given the choice to be alone, be with a coward, or with a liar- what do you really choose? People who do not love or even like themselves or were never given verbal and active confirmation of self worth by their parents or relationship role models will indeed accept being with a liar or cheater because they believe they deserve no better. (see my signature below) Link to post Share on other sites
Alamo657 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Same with folks who enter into relationships. If they have always been a liar or cheater and get kicked to the curb they simply move on to the next unwilling target.I don't think they are consciously evil in their means, they are looking for love but unable to keep it in their hearts because they mistake passion for love and feel they need to move to another target when the passion is gone. I'd say it's more emotional immaturity, and unability to live a regular routine life. Way too many people are not self-aware enough to see or spot deception. If some folks grew up around deceit of deception maybe they think it is ok in some way I think you learn about it with time. Unfortunately it shapes your perception of other human beings in a negative way, because it's very hard as an adult to be deceived, because time is precious and you lost a lot of it. People who do not love or even like themselves or were never given verbal and active confirmation of self worth by their parents or relationship role models will indeed accept being with a liar or cheater because they believe they deserve no better. (see my signature below)I can relate to that... it's exactly my case actually. With a slight nuance : i didn't believe i don't deserve better than a cheater as a partner, but i believed that i had to hold on to what i had before it's gone. Link to post Share on other sites
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