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Feminism in dating (Updated)


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Does anyone have any thoughts on why dating seems to be rather almost immune to feminism? I know women aren't quite equal yet to men in things like salary and career opportunities. But they're certainly closing the gap rapidly. This is not really the case in dating though. Does anyone ever see this changing?

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Is this about wanting a man to take the lead and initiate and chase?

 

No, this is about women who say they want equality but still expect a man to do all the work upfront and to pay for things in the beginning. Or at least that's my assumption.

 

OP, just do a search for "feminism" on this board and you'll see dozens of threads already about this very subject. I'm sure your intent is to rile up the female LS contingent, but I for one am not biting.

 

Have fun.

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Here I go, biting... :laugh:

 

I’ve seen HUGE changes in the past 4 decades and my mom (89, so she dated 6-7 decades ago) and I talk about how different things are all the time. The most striking differences I’ve seen are women not dropping their lives and goals for a BF or husband, not going to college to get an “Mrs” (that was ending when I was in college), men respecting professional goals and constraints and being more flexible and less self-centered,… but the biggest was that my daughter went to law school and her BF followed her! WHAT?!?! Unheard of in my day, or pretty darn rare! They’re married now, two career, a great couple. Now my other daughter who is going for her PhD is dating a guy who has a HS diploma and not much interest in further formal education and they’re a great couple too. I dunno… I’ve seen a lot of change.

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Real feminists who actually walk the walk on equality are attractive but they are becoming more and more rare these days.

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TunaInTheBrine
Does anyone have any thoughts on why dating seems to be rather almost immune to feminism? I know women aren't quite equal yet to men in things like salary and career opportunities. But they're certainly closing the gap rapidly. This is not really the case in dating though. Does anyone ever see this changing?

 

People will typically take advantage of whatever privilege and benefits are inherent to them, women included. Feminism gave women the opportunity to not take a backseat to men in professional, familial, or sexual realms. This is good, because it takes away a lot of that male privilege stuff that keeps women oppressed.

 

The mating game is designed in such a way that men pursue and women allow access. This means that men have to 'work' for women if they want sexual relations, and women simply don't have to do this if they don't want to. Men who don't initiate or pursue rarely, if ever, get laid. Women only need to let the men in who approach them. I'm speaking generally, of course.

 

I say this first because your question wants to know why feminism isn't present in dating. The answer is because if the mating game were to change, or 'equalize' in the way I think your question is asking, it means women would have to initiate and pursue men somewhere to the degree that men do with women now. Basically, women would have to start 'working' more for men. Ha! Can you imagine?

 

Like I said, when any of our lives are set up in a way that works in our favor, we are not going to relinquish that privilege. I see no reason why many women would start working MORE for men now, when it has only gotten better for them (men not only pursue them, but now casual sex is quite acceptable). For all of the talk on gender and sex equality that has gone on in the last several decades, I have seen very very little motivation from women around this topic of initiating and pursuing. They're not going to, unless some bizarre shift happens in our culture where they have no choice but to do so. So no, I don't see it changing.

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TunaInTheBrine
Real feminists who actually walk the walk on equality are attractive but they are becoming more and more rare these days.

 

Agreed. My idea of feminist is very different than what I see touted as feminism today.

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It will change when men stop being afraid they will never get laid if they stop paying for dates with strangers, etc. and go for women who are willing to demonstrate that they want to treat men like full partners in every way.

 

 

This is how I've treated men my whole entire life. As equal partners, not cash cows. I was raised to always pull my weight... and you know what? I've always found men who pull their own too... Not just when it comes to making a living but with domestic stuff too.

 

 

We all pitch in.

 

 

It's guys who need to draw the line here. Stop dating princesses and insist on equal treatment. Just like women have to do in the workplace. It is tough to move out of your comfort zone, but you can do it guys!!

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It will change when men stop being afraid they will never get laid if they stop paying for dates with strangers, etc. and go for women who are willing to demonstrate that they want to treat men like full partners in every way.

 

 

This is how I've treated men my whole entire life. As equal partners, not cash cows. I was raised to always pull my weight... and you know what? I've always found men who pull their own too... Not just when it comes to making a living but with domestic stuff too.

 

 

We all pitch in.

 

 

It's guys who need to draw the line here. Stop dating princesses and insist on equal treatment. Just like women have to do in the workplace. It is tough to move out of your comfort zone, but you can do it guys!!

 

You and I might not always agree but I can respect you for being a feminist who actually walks the walk.

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You and I might not always agree but I can respect you for being a feminist who actually walks the walk.

 

 

FWIW, I don't call myself a feminist. A humanist maybe. I don't believe in gender stereotypes. I believe in equal treatment and fairness for both genders. People can have their preferences, but it annoys me when they make it all about their gender and not about them as an individual.

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Does anyone have any thoughts on why dating seems to be rather almost immune to feminism? I know women aren't quite equal yet to men in things like salary and career opportunities. But they're certainly closing the gap rapidly. This is not really the case in dating though. Does anyone ever see this changing?

 

Dating is immune to feminism? How so? Do you feel that women are discriminated against in the dating game?

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Because one is inherently personal and sexual, and the other isn't or shouldn't be (with a few notable exceptions).

 

The law and employment should do its best to treat everyone the same, be they man, woman, transgender, gay, straight, etc. When choosing a romantic partner this does not have to apply. It's not about feminism anymore, it's about personal preference.

 

For instance, employers and lawmakers should be expected to enforce equal treatment and employment of heterosexuals and homosexuals (and everyone in between), but that doesn't mean that individuals are required to date heterosexuals and homosexuals equally, it depends on what their own sexual preferences are. Same goes with appearance, weight, age, height... and yes, gender roles. It's totally fine to not want to date an obese person, not fine to not hire someone just because they're obese. Totally fine for a 20-yo to not want to date a 50-yo, but not fine for said 20-yo to not hire the 50-yo due to his age. And similarly, it's totally fine to want to date a person who adheres to traditional gender roles, not fine to pay or employ someone differently due to their gender.

 

This is an unpopular concept here, but romantic/sexual preferences are not intended to be treated the same as legal/employment rights.

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2.50 a gallon

I have been out of the dating scene for two decades. But prior to that I dated several feminists. In fact my last long GF, was a on again / off again relationship of 6 years, with a dyed in the wool feminist. She had already made a fortune, by the age of 30, was chief software engineer and part owner in a software company. She liked my cooking, some gourmet, and when I could afford it I took her out to a French restaurant, Jock in the Box, or something similar. While she was taking me to some of the best and most expensive restaurants in the SF Bay Area. It was her dollar that paid for the many bed and breakfasts, we visited. I passed on her invites to trips to the Bahamas, Hawaii, to see the ruins of Mexico, etc.

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2.50 a gallon

And as far as that goes, my current GF of 20 years and counting, although never spouting feminists attitude, is a feminist in her own way. Although we were exclusive, from almost date #3, we did not move in together for almost a decade. We both wanted to keep our independence. She, married early, still in high school, to military man who turned into a an alcoholic abuser, who was all about being the general in the house. After her divorce she was very independent and did not need a man in her life. Example, she called one time asking if I could bring over one of my tools, as her sink was blocked up. I brought it over and she fixed the sink herself. Another time she called her starter was out could I come over. I brought my tool and was all set to change out her starter, too late, the starter was out, all she needed was a ride to the parts store.

I was beginning to think this would never work, until one night at 2 in the morning she called asking for help as she had an animal in her bathroom. Which turned out to be a sewer roach. Her one weakness is bugs, they freak her out, and she needs a man to do the dirty work, and we went from there.

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FWIW, I don't call myself a feminist. A humanist maybe. I don't believe in gender stereotypes. I believe in equal treatment and fairness for both genders. People can have their preferences, but it annoys me when they make it all about their gender and not about them as an individual.

 

This is the definition of feminism. You are a feminist.

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This is the definition of feminism. You are a feminist.

 

I agree, though the word has become twisted in various ways by various people, justifiably or not, so I read RR's post as conveying that the label is not as important as how you live. Our society does tend to be a bit obsessed with labels at the expense of substance.

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Because one is inherently personal and sexual, and the other isn't or shouldn't be (with a few notable exceptions).

 

The law and employment should do its best to treat everyone the same, be they man, woman, transgender, gay, straight, etc. When choosing a romantic partner this does not have to apply. It's not about feminism anymore, it's about personal preference.

 

For instance, employers and lawmakers should be expected to enforce equal treatment and employment of heterosexuals and homosexuals (and everyone in between), but that doesn't mean that individuals are required to date heterosexuals and homosexuals equally, it depends on what their own sexual preferences are. Same goes with appearance, weight, age, height... and yes, gender roles. It's totally fine to not want to date an obese person, not fine to not hire someone just because they're obese. Totally fine for a 20-yo to not want to date a 50-yo, but not fine for said 20-yo to not hire the 50-yo due to his age. And similarly, it's totally fine to want to date a person who adheres to traditional gender roles, not fine to pay or employ someone differently due to their gender.

 

This is an unpopular concept here, but romantic/sexual preferences are not intended to be treated the same as legal/employment rights.

 

Other than to say "This ^^^"

 

I'm not biting, either.

 

Too many people (ESpecially on this site) bastardize the term "feminism" to ever have a coherent conversation on a topic which contains the word as part of its premise.

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Other than to say "This ^^^"

 

Other than to say ^this^ AND "This ^^^"

 

I'm not biting, either.

I'm also saying ^this^...

 

Too many people (ESpecially on this site) bastardize the term "feminism" to ever have a coherent conversation on a topic which contains the word as part of its premise.
Precisely because of ^this^.
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This is the definition of feminism. You are a feminist.

 

 

ok. whatever. It seems the only people who are interested in these titles are people who don't believe in equal treatment and fairness for both genders.

 

 

So, how about I have a label for THOSE people instead? I call them fundamentalists. Since their gender beliefs tend to go along traditional, religion based teaching.

 

 

Are you a fundamentalist? And how do you apply your fundamentalist teachings to dating? I mean, if you are a man, and you are ok with having to pay, then you have to be ok for other thngs... like being ok to wait for marriage for sex, etc. I see a lot of hypocrisy on both sides when it comes to their so-called preferences. I don't like hypocrisy.

 

 

Maybe I am an anti-hypocrite. How about that?

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"Feminism" = "the belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes"

 

"Feminist" = "a person [i.e., male OR female] who believes in feminism

 

 

Hence, my previous allusion to the fact that the term gets "bastardized".

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Rejected Rosebud

This is an unpopular concept here, but romantic/sexual preferences are not intended to be treated the same as legal/employment rights.

No kidding.
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Rejected Rosebud
This is the definition of feminism. You are a feminist.
I took that as you giving her a compliment! You weren't?? :confused::confused:
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because one is inherently personal and sexual, and the other isn't or shouldn't be (with a few notable exceptions).

 

The law and employment should do its best to treat everyone the same, be they man, woman, transgender, gay, straight, etc. When choosing a romantic partner this does not have to apply. It's not about feminism anymore, it's about personal preference.

 

For instance, employers and lawmakers should be expected to enforce equal treatment and employment of heterosexuals and homosexuals (and everyone in between), but that doesn't mean that individuals are required to date heterosexuals and homosexuals equally, it depends on what their own sexual preferences are. Same goes with appearance, weight, age, height... And yes, gender roles. It's totally fine to not want to date an obese person, not fine to not hire someone just because they're obese. Totally fine for a 20-yo to not want to date a 50-yo, but not fine for said 20-yo to not hire the 50-yo due to his age. And similarly, it's totally fine to want to date a person who adheres to traditional gender roles, not fine to pay or employ someone differently due to their gender.

 

This is an unpopular concept here, but romantic/sexual preferences are not intended to be treated the same as legal/employment rights.

 

+1,000,000,000

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