Jump to content

Why not to bring up marriage first


Recommended Posts

I was watching the Steve Harvey show the other day and they had a bunch of people on there saying why men and women react differently on certain things. For example, it's so often the woman who is wanting to talk about stages of commitment first, up to and including marriage.

 

So this one couple had been together a few years and his gf was continually pressuring him by showing him rings in the window of a jewelry store and bringing up the subject, and she was ready to leave him if he didn't act soon. Which is reasonable if you feel it's gone on too long, I think. But in doing so, she'd actually created her own problem.

 

He had his personal reasons for being commitment-shy and dragging his feet (childhood issues with parents), but when asked why he hadn't gotten her a ring yet, his answer was very simple and made a lot of sense to me and I think women and men would do well to remember it (because sometimes it's reversed and it's the man keen on locking the woman down).

 

He was in no hurry whatsoever to get engaged and ask her to marry him because she'd been bringing the subject up for a couple of years and he was dead-certain she'd say yes, so he had absolutely no motivation to hurry the process up or put more into the relationship or anything.

 

I just think it's worth noting that being the one to broach the subject of marriage can actually have the opposite effect. It takes all urgency and motivation out of it for the other party. They know they have your commitment. They already have it without giving you theirs. What do they gain by asking you to marry them? Nothing.

 

I just thought it clarified some things for me. What I got out of it is if you're wanting commitment, don't let yourself get locked down without it. Date other people, don't move in with them. Give them some reason to want to get that commitment from you so you have mutual commitment. Instead of bringing up marriage and dropping hints, she should have simply started dating other people, and chances are he'd have wanted commitment sooner.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The worst thing you can do as far as marriage is concerned is pushing somebody into it when their heart isn't 100% there. Marry somebody who enthusiastically wants to marry you. If you have to prod somebody into marrying you then chances are marrying them is not a good idea.

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that is pretty jerky of him. If he knows she wants to move to the next level, and he isn't ready and won't be ready instead of assuming she is a "gimme" why not show the love for her by letting her go if he can't commit now?

 

The ridiculous thing, she will get to the point where she is just done and he will then finally propose and be shocked she isn't interested. And then of course spend the next months/years lambasting her as evil and indecisive and how he is the victim in the whole thing. :rolleyes:

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Well that is pretty jerky of him. If he knows she wants to move to the next level, and he isn't ready and won't be ready instead of assuming she is a "gimme" why not show the love for her by letting her go if he can't commit now?

 

The ridiculous thing, she will get to the point where she is just done and he will then finally propose and be shocked she isn't interested. And then of course spend the next months/years lambasting her as evil and indecisive and how he is the victim in the whole thing. :rolleyes:

 

I am certain I have read threads exactly like this.....:D

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

it may be archaic advice to the young ladies of today, but when you give away the milk for free, there is no incentive. i guess it can work in the reverse as well, but not sure what the motto is for that one :D you don't move in without a wedding date. quit playing house with someone who won't ever marry you. you lock down the commitment first before embarking on a journey only one person wants.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

I'm not at all conventional and never been married or cared about it, but if you are the person who wants to marry, you simply have to hold something back for after marriage, whatever that may be, or you're at a disadvantage.

 

Now, what actually happened in the episode is one reason the guy gave for not wanting to marry yet was finances, which I understand that, especially with someone who wants the dream ring and dream wedding. Well, so the "happy ending" on the show is the show and a cosponsor jeweler provided the engagement ring, so he proposed to her with it. Now, this would not have set well with me, but if she's who called the show, she probably had an expectation that that would be the outcome and finally get him to do it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's fine but you Also need to dump that guy who hasn't married you after a couple of years, if you are a woman who wants to get married and have children. Men will waste all your childbearing years farting around because they don't have a biological clock and could care less about yours (until HE wants children, then they care about it). I'm glad my babymaking days are over and I don't have to worry about that.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
it may be archaic advice to the young ladies of today, but when you give away the milk for free, there is no incentive.

 

This. Okay, you might still want to move in together to see if you're compatible when you're around each other nearly all the time, but eventually you should sit down for 'the talk' and if 'the talk' goes nowhere, check the papers for apartment adverts/move back to your parents and search a new partner.

 

Besides, I find the thought of having to persuade someone to marry me quite humiliating.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
This. Okay, you might still want to move in together to see if you're compatible when you're around each other nearly all the time, but eventually you should sit down for 'the talk' and if 'the talk' goes nowhere, check the papers for apartment adverts/move back to your parents and search a new partner.

 

Besides, I find the thought of having to persuade someone to marry me quite humiliating.

 

I am now of the opinion that yes, you should move in together, but only AFTER you get the engagement ring. I would no more marry someone I hadn't lived with than I'd fly using only my arms to Rio, but now I don't think you should IF marriage is important to you and your main goal. At least get the ring. If you get the ring, then chances are, he's not going to waste that much money and call it off, though he might put it off for some amount of time, causing you to still have to dump him.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think most guys are going out of their way to waste a woman's child bearing years. We tend to drag our feet because we want to make sure this is the girl we want to marry and have bear our children. Just because some woman is in a rush to make a baby doesn't mean a guy should rush into things with her. That's how men's lives get ruined paying child support for the rest of their lives.

 

I understand but what I said is still true. Whatever the man's reason is, a woman can waste all her childbearing years waiting for him to be ready and that can't happen. I'm suggesting she dumps him, not get pregnant by him without telling him.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Being in a relationship of mutual regard can be maintained. A License or ceremony is not for everyone. A license or ceremony carries little guarantee....

 

sound advice is to think long and hard before broaching it, and then take their actions at face value.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
My advice to women out there who want a decent guy to marry them is to be the type of girl those decent guys can't help but want to marry. Impress the crap out of your guy to the point where he thinks he would be stupid not to marry you.

 

If you want to get promoted at work, would you bug your boss every day about a raise or promotion? No, you step up your game. You dress the part, you take on more responsibilities, and you show them that you are the person they want. Relationships work the same way.

 

I agree with that too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
My advice to women out there who want a decent guy to marry them is to be the type of girl those decent guys can't help but want to marry. Impress the crap out of your guy to the point where he thinks he would be stupid not to marry you.

 

If you want to get promoted at work, would you bug your boss every day about a raise or promotion? No, you step up your game. You dress the part, you take on more responsibilities, and you show them that you are the person they want. Relationships work the same way.

 

Well, that explains why I would not marry. I am not the type to create false bravado, take me as I am is my mantra. I am not in a race to impress anyone, I treat people kindly and value them naturally, but to "step" it up, 'act" a part....even my boss's see thru the brown nosers in my workplace. Not questioning that concept as I have seen people be on their best behavior, yet sadly I cannot see that working in the long haul of what relationships maintain. If you can't be yourself...then you are taking on someone elses' life standards and expectations...

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

All of this is really happening because boys and girls don't have the social pressure there used to be surrounding timing. Family would protect a girl by keeping track of her time for her. If the suitor was proving to be reckless or careless, the parents/parental figures would step in. It's sad that parents can't do their job anymore for failing to look uncool or traditional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, let's just be frank, there are some guy out there who not marriage minded but are serial monogamist. You have to know when you're dealing with one of those.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
All of this is really happening because boys and girls don't have the social pressure there used to be surrounding timing. Family would protect a girl by keeping track of her time for her. If the suitor was proving to be reckless or careless, the parents/parental figures would step in. It's sad that parents can't do their job anymore for failing to look uncool or traditional.

 

All of what is happening; kids not being used as baby-making machines by their parents? Or people having the time to mature, before diving into a marriage and making a bunch of kids without having a clue about life?

Edited by Robert Z
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As I read this, I can't help but think it is kind of sad. It is sad that many women seem driven to choose men more for function than love.

 

If you really love a man with all of your heart, he should come before kids, imo. Otherwise he is just being used as a baby machine. I find it hard to understand how a woman can want to give her heart and soul to a man and bear his children... or to the next guy that fits the bill. It makes me think she doesn't really love him at all.

 

And maybe that's why men drag their feet when it comes to marriage.

 

I am also bothered by the notion of doing a sales job on him to hook him because that will clearly end at the altar. And then he is left wondering who in the hell he married. I know that game.

 

If I was in love with a woman and wanted to marry her, and then found out she couldn't have kids, is it okay to dump her like an afterthought? I never would have thought so until now. I thought love was what mattered. Silly me.

Edited by Robert Z
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
aussietigerwolf

Marriage will not help you hang on to a woman or a man. People can and have left as soon as the day after the wedding or honeymoon. It is not a way to lock a person down if they choose not to be.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
As I read this, I can't help but think it is kind of sad. It is sad that many women seem driven to choose men more for function than love.

 

If you really love a man with all of your heart, he should come before kids, imo. Otherwise he is just being used as a baby machine. I find it hard to understand how a woman can want to give her heart and soul to a man and bear his children... or to the next guy that fits the bill. It makes me think she doesn't really love him at all.

 

And maybe that's why men drag their feet when it comes to marriage.

 

I am also bothered by the notion of doing a sales job on him to hook him because that will clearly end at the altar. And then he is left wondering who in the hell he married. I know that game.

 

If I was in love with a woman and wanted to marry her, and then found out she couldn't have kids, is it okay to dump her like an afterthought? I never would have thought so until now. I thought love was what mattered. Silly me.

 

I think though that the concern centers more on the type of guy (or girl, but more commonly a guy) who simply can't make up his mind and will dither endlessly. There are serial monogamists but I actually don't think most of them see themselves that way, and so are not inclined to be "honest" about it because they think they are already being honest by simply not committing one way or the other - which also means not ending the relationship. And that's the thing - it's not that they don't want to be in the relationship, it's that they don't know what they want. I think a lot of them have a fairytale idea of their Dream Girl and the reality (someone who has her own needs that may be in conflict with his from time to time, presenting some jarring moments of reality) is vaguely disappointing - because no human being is ever going to match up with a dream. Doesn't mean she isn't awesome in her own right, just that she isn't a dream, and he wonders if there's someone out there who will be even more awesome. I think there's a lot of truth to the idea that the older a guy gets without marrying, the more he's internally doubling down on that ideal, even if he isn't exactly conscious of it. Marrying becomes a Thing for him, and he'll forever be hedging his bets.

 

Those are the types of guys that women fear. The ones that aren't intentionally being cruel, aren't intentionally stringing a woman along, but seriously just cannot make up their minds - but will never admit that openly.

 

Of course, the answer is that a woman should walk when she realizes this. But it can take years to realize, and women are also told that they should be patient and shouldn't rush a guy into marriage and etc., and then you're five or ten years into it and it's a tough choice. (and meanwhile people are telling them what a fool they were for not walking sooner)

 

Bottom line, I think that if you want to get married/have kids, and you know that about yourself, then it's reasonable to set an internal timeline with a relationship, or else decide that you don't need marriage/kids. If you do, though, you shouldn't be ashamed of needing to move on after a certain period of time if the guy isn't making up his mind. Her needs matter too. Doesn't mean that pressuring and needling is the way to go; that's a love-killer, for sure. But an honest conversation at some point (perhaps a year, perhaps two, perhaps more - depends on the couple) isn't out of line at all. She can simply say, I need a deeper commitment, and if that's not something you're up for, then I have to leave. This does not make her not interested in love or in the man - but she can care for her own needs, and shouldn't be shamed for that.

Edited by serial muse
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

That old book, He's Just Not That Into You, makes it clear I think.

 

A man who WANTS to marry you will, and it won't take him endless years to figure it out. If you are adults and you have been dating 2-3 years and he has yet to mention marriage....he doesn't want to marry you. If he did he'd move heaven and earth to make it happen. Same with women.

 

I also agree that begging someone to marry you is a dumb idea. You really want someone you had to BEG and badger? Not me. And for the love of God, if you plan to cut off sex or cast hubby aside once the babies come, please let the poor man know that ahead of time!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't want to marry a woman who implied that if I did not marry her, and soon, she would leave to find some one else to marry.

 

How exactly is that going to motivate me to marry her? She just told me I'm a non important interchangeable part in her already planned out life for the both of us.

 

Why would I want to be a part of that?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't want to marry a woman who implied that if I did not marry her, and soon, she would leave to find some one else to marry.

 

How exactly is that going to motivate me to marry her? She just told me I'm a non important interchangeable part in her already planned out life for the both of us.

 

Why would I want to be a part of that?

 

Supposing that she didn't say it to motivate you?

 

And, of course, it's a gross mischaracterization to say that someone saying "I want to get married and it doesn't seem like you do, and that's a problem for me" = "you're a non-important interchangeable part of my already planned out life".

 

One could just as easily mischaracterize the alternate position as "I want you to hang around until I figure out what I want from you, because your feelings aren't as important as mine are, and I need you to love me unconditionally even though I don't feel that way about you." But would that be true?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
The worst thing you can do as far as marriage is concerned is pushing somebody into it when their heart isn't 100% there. Marry somebody who enthusiastically wants to marry you. If you have to prod somebody into marrying you then chances are marrying them is not a good idea.
This pretty much. I fail to understand what type of woman would even accept a forced, unsincere proposal, something that was only her idea. What is she even going to say once married and friends or family members were to ask her how he propose, when and where.

 

Plus if the woman feels she had to urge a man to marry her well then... what type of relationship was that in the first place? Didn't she know about what his views and goals were early on?

Edited by dragon_fly_7
Link to post
Share on other sites
Instead of bringing up marriage and dropping hints, she should have simply started dating other people, and chances are he'd have wanted commitment sooner.
Why should it even take me breaking up for a man to commit or propose? If I were to break up then it's because the relationship wasn't working and I would have no interest in accepting a proposal afterwards.

 

I wouldn't want to get proposed just because he sees I'm leaving. That's something he has to want himself too.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just thinking something along these lines. Why put up an entire facade? I sort of understand being a bit mysterious to keep things interesting.

 

Well, that explains why I would not marry. I am not the type to create false bravado, take me as I am is my mantra. I am not in a race to impress anyone, I treat people kindly and value them naturally, but to "step" it up, 'act" a part....even my boss's see thru the brown nosers in my workplace. Not questioning that concept as I have seen people be on their best behavior, yet sadly I cannot see that working in the long haul of what relationships maintain. If you can't be yourself...then you are taking on someone elses' life standards and expectations...
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...