Debate I saw earlier, curious on your thoughts

[GreenEyes1005]

I saw this posted on social media earlier by a 30 year old man:

 

"You know what really grinds my gears? Single women. The ones who chase intangible ideals over living and breathing, tangible men that actually exist. They get this "plenty of fish in the pond" mentality stacked on top of an obsession for attention with impatience sprinkled on top.

 

PUH-LEASE.... That's the kind of behavior that keeps you single forever. You end up being so full of yourself that you are eventually a monster of your own creation. Even if your "perfect guy" existed or someone you're interested in came along, do you really think he'd chase after you? Maybe for a minute to nibble at your toes, but then he (should) smart up and move himself along once he finds the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Grow up, put some of your clothes back on, get out of the bars and enter the real world of real people!

 

Women, get over yourselves, see the proverbial diamond in the rough and be honest with men.

 

Men, get a backbone, grow a pair, and then chase after a real woman that's not just looking for the next sucker.

 

P.S. This is in no way an attack on anyone. I'm just voicing a thought that's been in the back of my mind for some time now and finally was able to coherently verbalize it. And I applaud you in you actually read my entire rant. Lol"

 

------------------

I had a hard time with this because I personally am NOT one of the girls depicted, and actually in my experience it's harder to find a man who doesn't end up being a jerk, commitment phobic, or who can't cease the cat and mouse game with exes.

 

I'm curious about everyone else's opinions. Is it harder to find a good woman these days or is it harder to find a good man? Keep in mind, I realize that there are bad seeds of each sex, but as I said, as a woman who has my life together and has a lot to bring to the table, finding equally good men (who are on the same wavelength!) seems awfully difficult.

Edited August 30, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quote accentuated, moved to GRD and attribution pending

[jen1447]

I can't imagine that publishing rants about dating or singles will help you not to be single forever.

 

I don't think it's particularly harder to find any one thing ("good" man, "bad" woman," etc.) than another, but what can be hard is finding one with the relatively narrow criteria of being suitable for your sensibilities. You're not simply looking for a good man (assuming you're like everyone else), you're looking for a good man who also has attributes a thru z that make him a contender as a decent enough match with your own traits.

[Jejangles]

I think he has a point to a degree (I'm 34 and have been mostly single in my life!) It's easy to get a "vision" of who you're looking for in your mind. And the longer I'm single, I think to some degree the less open I am... I have a good and happy life for the most part, so if I'm going to seriously be with someone, he needs to for be someone who makes my life at least as good as it is now if not better. That may cause me to be single for the rest of my life and I would be ok with that if my only alternative was being with someone who wasn't right for me.

 

That said, I have also realised that some of my criteria for a guy are shallow and not really all that important. So I am being a lot more open minded in who I date and I am giving longer chances to people I would have cut off in the past. Only time will tell what results from this new approach!

 

Anyway, when you get into your 30s, I think the pickiness goes both ways. I have met plenty of guys who have just as much of a "vision" of who they should be dating as the women do.

[Jejangles]

I can't imagine that publishing rants about dating or singles will help you not to be single forever.

 

Ain't this the truth! I was out with a friend recently who is now a self proclaimed "man hater" and it is exhausting and off putting even for me, and I'm a female! All these rants about the opposite sex do is solidify that thinking in your mind, and then you won't be open or give people you're dating the benefit of the doubt, which then causes you to be bitter and lonely. It's a bad cycle.

[GreenEyes1005]

I think he has a point to a degree (I'm 34 and have been mostly single in my life!) It's easy to get a "vision" of who you're looking for in your mind. And the longer I'm single, I think to some degree the less open I am... I have a good and happy life for the most part, so if I'm going to seriously be with someone, he needs to for be someone who makes my life at least as good as it is now if not better. That may cause me to be single for the rest of my life and I would be ok with that if my only alternative was being with someone who wasn't right for me.

 

That said, I have also realised that some of my criteria for a guy are shallow and not really all that important. So I am being a lot more open minded in who I date and I am giving longer chances to people I would have cut off in the past. Only time will tell what results from this new approach!

 

Anyway, when you get into your 30s, I think the pickiness goes both ways. I have met plenty of guys who have just as much of a "vision" of who they should be dating as the women do.

 

I'm 29 and will be 30 in October. Like you, as I've gotten older I also have given chances to people I might not have in the past, I do not think I am "too picky" in the slightest. I have a small "deal breaker" list, but other than that it depends on the guy.

 

However, despite having become a lot more relaxed in my choice of men (chemistry and common interests are the primary make or break for me), the past three guys I've dated have been a jerk disguised as a nice guy (while dating me he hit on my friend, and she told me), a guy who wasn't over an ex who cheated on him multiple times (and he's dating her again currently), and most recently a commitment phobe.

 

All were very different men but all ended up being the same in a way because they were all on different wavelengths as me. It's a bit discouraging!

[angel.eyes]

He sounds frustrated, bitter...and very single. I don't see his rant improving anything for him. Quite the opposite if he continues on this path.

[Vercetti]

If really know what you have to offer. If honestly seek someone balanced with reality, there shouldn't be major issues. Just clueless grossly overestimate what have to offer and usually can't see what those that are not clueless bring to the table. The person that isn't clueless just makes the mistake of thinking others are comptempt as they, even if they underestimate themself.

[Gloria25]

I think men, like the economy and our society are on the decline...

 

So, when you had the luxury to jump from job to job cuz you just didn't like something - now you can't. You gotta buckle down and make your roots with some company/organization/etc.

 

Problem is, now that you're looking around for a dude - there's nothing but crap out there. Especially when you reach a certain age - like me, approaching 40.

 

The men in my age group either want kids, have kids (and want more), been divorced, etc. Worst, the femenazis have turned them into "boys" who lack basic social graces, chivalry, job/career/goals, etc.

 

So, we are in a terrible time to be single ladies. So, you put off marriage and kids in your 20's thinking that the tree will still bear fruit - only to find out that the tree is baren and bears nothing but crappy fruit.

 

BTW, I don't think I have unrealistic standards...but, gosh darn, once you're out of your 20's and you "know" what you want in a man and "know" what a man should bring to the table - you can't help but be a bit picky....but, like I said, problem is the "men" out there have no desire to rise to the occasion and some of them simply aren't being taught/raised to rise to the occasion either.

 

I mean, criticize the picky single women out there now a days - but look at the flipside...all those women who married in their 20's only to find out they made a mistake and once those kids turn 18 (or even earlier now a days) divorce upon divorce.

 

I, today, was seriously thinking about the big speech I'm gonna give my niece cuz she's coming into town and will be here for her 16th b-day. And, with permission from her mum, I'm gonna lay it out for her. I want her to not wait too late to decide to marry and/or have kids like I did BUT, not to put off her education and goals and just default into marriage/kids in her 20's either. **Also, I'm gonna give her one of my fav podcaster's books "10 things women do to mess up their lives". I wish someone gave it to me when I was in my teens!!!

Edited August 30, 2015 by Gloria25

[Jejangles]

I'm 29 and will be 30 in October. Like you, as I've gotten older I also have given chances to people I might not have in the past, I do not think I am "too picky" in the slightest. I have a small "deal breaker" list, but other than that it depends on the guy.

 

However, despite having become a lot more relaxed in my choice of men (chemistry and common interests are the primary make or break for me), the past three guys I've dated have been a jerk disguised as a nice guy (while dating me he hit on my friend, and she told me), a guy who wasn't over an ex who cheated on him multiple times (and he's dating her again currently), and most recently a commitment phobe.

 

All were very different men but all ended up being the same in a way because they were all on different wavelengths as me. It's a bit discouraging!

 

Yeah, it's super discouraging! I have chosen to invest in some bad choices as well. Last year I dated a really solid good hearted guy but he was not emotionally available for anything beyond casual (took me almost four months to realise it!) Earlier this year I dated a guy who blew so hot it was unbelievable then he dropped off the face of the earth. Then for a lot of the summer I dated a truly good guy who had completely different religious beliefs than me, which ultimately ended things.

 

I could look at those situations and say men suck, there's noone who is right for me, I give up. Or I could look at them and say hey that's what dating is, it's figuring out who people are and whether they are worth my energy and investment. On my down days I take the former attitude. On my up days I take the latter. I'm much happier when I stay in the present during dating, evaluate guys through their actions not their words and when I don't project into the future too much.

 

My mantra comes from Natalie Lue of Baggage Reclaim - dating is a discovery phase! You need to date men and see what their actions show over time. And they should do the same with you!

[Gloria25]

Also, I don't get the gripe of the guy the OP quoted...

 

In THIS day and age, men got it made if they decide to stay single.

 

They can have sex, companionship, shack-ups, and even kids with women w/o putting a ring on their finger.

 

Yes, the femenazis have made a lot of women not wifey and/or RL material now a days (they are lazy, overweight, bad attitudes, don't wanna cook, sex, watch kids, clean) - but the flip side is that if a guy plays his cards right, he can get them in a FWB and/or shack-up situation and get his needs met.

 

If I were a man, last thing on my mind would be marrying a woman now a days - I'd be just looking to get what I can out of them, chuck-um and dump-um.

[GreenEyes1005]

I think men, like the economy and our society are on the decline...

 

So, when you had the luxury to jump from job to job cuz you just didn't like something - now you can't. You gotta buckle down and make your roots with some company/organization/etc.

 

Problem is, now that you're looking around for a dude - there's nothing but crap out there. Especially when you reach a certain age - like me, approaching 40.

 

The men in my age group either want kids, have kids (and want more), been divorced, etc. Worst, the femenazis have turned them into "boys" who lack basic social graces, chivalry, job/career/goals, etc.

 

So, we are in a terrible time to be single ladies. So, you put off marriage and kids in your 20's thinking that the tree will still bear fruit - only to find out that the tree is baren and bears nothing but crappy fruit.

 

BTW, I don't think I have unrealistic standards...but, gosh darn, once you're out of your 20's and you "know" what you want in a man and "know" what a man should bring to the table - you can't help but be a bit picky....but, like I said, problem is the "men" out there have no desire to rise to the occasion and some of them simply aren't being taught/raised to rise to the occasion either.

 

I mean, criticize the picky single women out there now a days - but look at the flipside...all those women who married in their 20's only to find out they made a mistake and once those kids turn 18 (or even earlier now a days) divorce upon divorce.

 

I, today, was seriously thinking about the big speech I'm gonna give my niece cuz she's coming into town and will be here for her 16th b-day. And, with permission from her mum, I'm gonna lay it out for her. I want her to not wait too late to decide to marry and/or have kids like I did BUT, not to put off her education and goals and just default into marriage/kids in her 20's either. **Also, I'm gonna give her one of my fav podcaster's books "10 things women do to mess up their lives". I wish someone gave it to me when I was in my teens!!!

 

I don't know if it's even about "waiting to marry/have kids" or not. I mean, had I been 25 and met someone it'd work long-term with, I would be married/have kids. I could've settled for a few of those men but I wouldn't have been truly happy.

 

There are definitely damaged goods for both sexes. People who are raised with parents that had messy divorces, people who have been through messy break ups, and people who have been hurt or blindsided enough times to be forced into building walls (perhaps at times subconsciously).

 

Everyone has a "standard" of sorts of what kind of person they're looking for, but for whatever reason it seems like when a lot of people start dating a person who fits their standard, they screw it up more often than not by focusing on their past, the possibility that someone better may be out there, or they simply run due to having commitment issues.

[GreenEyes1005]

Yeah, it's super discouraging! I have chosen to invest in some bad choices as well. Last year I dated a really solid good hearted guy but he was not emotionally available for anything beyond casual (took me almost four months to realise it!) Earlier this year I dated a guy who blew so hot it was unbelievable then he dropped off the face of the earth. Then for a lot of the summer I dated a truly good guy who had completely different religious beliefs than me, which ultimately ended things.

 

I could look at those situations and say men suck, there's noone who is right for me, I give up. Or I could look at them and say hey that's what dating is, it's figuring out who people are and whether they are worth my energy and investment. On my down days I take the former attitude. On my up days I take the latter. I'm much happier when I stay in the present during dating, evaluate guys through their actions not their words and when I don't project into the future too much.

 

My mantra comes from Natalie Lue of Baggage Reclaim - dating is a discovery phase! You need to date men and see what their actions show over time. And they should do the same with you!

 

 

 

Oh yes it's definitely about your attitude. I have a brother and several male friends so I know good guys exist, but it is much easier to find men that are "unavailable" in some way than it is to find "keepers".

 

I wouldn't even say the men I've dated in the last couple years are even bad men per se, they're just not at a point where they can be considered boyfriend material. They are all good friends to women and good brothers/sons/uncles, but not ready for the real deal as far as relationships go.

 

I have gone through periods of time in my early 20s where I probably did have my standards set at a ridiculous level, but these days that's simply not the case. At times I wonder if I have something in me that attracts these "unavailable" men... Only a therapist could know I guess! Ha.

[GreenEyes1005]

Also, I don't get the gripe of the guy the OP quoted...

 

In THIS day and age, men got it made if they decide to stay single.

 

They can have sex, companionship, shack-ups, and even kids with women w/o putting a ring on their finger.

 

Yes, the femenazis have made a lot of women not wifey and/or RL material now a days (they are lazy, overweight, bad attitudes, don't wanna cook, sex, watch kids, clean) - but the flip side is that if a guy plays his cards right, he can get them in a FWB and/or shack-up situation and get his needs met.

 

If I were a man, last thing on my mind would be marrying a woman now a days - I'd be just looking to get what I can out of them, chuck-um and dump-um.

 

 

 

This is also true of women though. If women are okay with never getting married or being in an official relationship, they too can enjoy the perks of a FWB relationship! However, I am not one of those women anymore.

 

And unfortunately, I think a lot of men actually do want to commit to someone, but fear of either getting hurt or losing their independence gets in the way. This could also be true with women I suppose.

[trippi1432]

I saw this posted on social media earlier by a 30 year old man:

 

I had a hard time with this because I personally am NOT one of the girls depicted, and actually in my experience it's harder to find a man who doesn't end up being a jerk, commitment phobic, or who can't cease the cat and mouse game with exes.

 

I'm curious about everyone else's opinions. Is it harder to find a good woman these days or is it harder to find a good man? Keep in mind, I realize that there are bad seeds of each sex, but as I said, as a woman who has my life together and has a lot to bring to the table, finding equally good men (who are on the same wavelength!) seems awfully difficult.

 

Social media is what it is, but to get to gist of your post, it's a bit of both. When people stop putting stock into "fitting each other into THEIR own box" and can find a "box" big enough for two people to live and flourish, be safe, comfortable and on the same page...your version of having it "together" will have to change. Sorry, but that is a fact, despite what social media has to say about it.

 

If you are looking for a man on your "wavelength", you may have to ask yourself what values attribute to his life as well. I think we all look for the same, no matter how "together" we are.

[understand50]

This is also true of women though. If women are okay with never getting married or being in an official relationship, they too can enjoy the perks of a FWB relationship! However, I am not one of those women anymore.

 

And unfortunately, I think a lot of men actually do want to commit to someone, but fear of either getting hurt or losing their independence gets in the way. This could also be true with women I suppose.

 

Let's look at the other side of the coin.

 

Myself, I met my future wife at 15, started dating at 16, were lovers at 17, married at 19. Had our first child at 20, She is two years older. We have been together for 40 plus years.

 

Now, I am a guy that did commit, and stayed faithful. I am the type that many women are looking for when they hit 30ish. When I was 30ish, I was with my wife, and unavailable. This is the key, Men that will commit wont a family will do so early, will find the love of their life and then go fourth, though the good and the bad. There will be bumps along the way, infidelity (not during our marriage), overspending, green grass syndrome, but somehow they will make it work. We never hear about them.

 

Thus, these men are not available later in life, or on the "market". Problem is for many women in their 20s, who are "living" and having fun, these men are not even looked at, much less chased. These guys are too busy setting up their life, going to school, or in the military. Many marry early. They are not the cool guys. They will also not look at the partying, many ONS, or disdainful woman. Here is a link that may help the conversation.

 

The Benefits of Getting Married Young | The Art of Manliness

 

Gloria25, I am glad you are going to lay it out for your niece. Nature makes it much harder to have children after 30. Not impossible, just harder. Young girls should know all the facts, so they can live their life with eyes wide open. It is one thing to decide, it is another just to go along and not know. Knowledge is power.

 

For my wife and I, the fact that we married early and stayed together, lifted us both up economically, and allowed both of us to be happy for the most part. As LS is a testament, marriage has it up and downs. On the whole, I like being married. I like being married to her. I am still in love.

 

I am also, glad I am not a late 20ish, 30ish guy trying to find the right woman at this time. I think it would drive me nuts. Conversely, if my wife was to pass on at this time, for I do not see divorce as a option, I would be looking to my close female friends for marriage. Friends my wife and I have known most of our life's and have kept in touch. Affection can lead to love, late in life when both are looking for support and companionship. So again, I really would not be "On the Market".

 

My two cents.

Edited August 30, 2015 by understand50

[Gloria25]

Let's look at the other side of the coin.

 

Myself, I met my future wife at 15, started dating at 16, were lovers at 17, married at 19. Had our first child at 20, She is two years older. We have been together for 40 plus years.

 

And I congratulate you two on keeping it together, but IMO, you two came from a different generation (correct me if I'm wrong here.. ) where people weren't so flakey. They encounter a rough patch in the RL/marriage - they work it out...Women were raised better and had "something" to bring to a marriage (nuturing, cooking, raising a family). Men, took pride in being a "man" and supporting the wife and kids...In other words "traditional" and/or "old fashioned" values.

 

Thing is, now a days, I wouldn't recommend anyone get married young. Why? Because now a days people have "options" and really don't know what they want in a mate, themselves - much less "how" to chose a mate. And their parents are scared to give any input and/or are literally in absentia. The parents sit on the sidelines and just watch their kids marry whomever and 'may the chips fall where they may'.

 

So, young people now a days stumble in their teens, 20's and hopefully by 30's are finally figuring out who they are and what they want in a mate. Sad thing is that for women, by the the time they hit 30's, their biological clock is ticking...

 

Now, of the people who aren't wise enough now a days to wait until their late 20's and/or 30's to marry - we have the ones who have kids, marriages, etc - not knowing who they are, w/o the wisdom/input/guidance of their parents and/or not even financially capable of having a family....couple that with the "me, me, me" self-absorbed and lack of resilience that this generation has, these marriages, RLs, breeding that take place before 30's results in a lot of the chaos we see now a days - instead of couples like you and your wife sticking together, growing together, and making it happen.

 

Sad now a days, sad if you ask me...

[Gloria25]

This is also true of women though. If women are okay with never getting married or being in an official relationship, they too can enjoy the perks of a FWB relationship! However, I am not one of those women anymore.

 

And unfortunately, I think a lot of men actually do want to commit to someone, but fear of either getting hurt or losing their independence gets in the way. This could also be true with women I suppose.

 

There's no "perks" in FWB RL - for women...

 

Of the women who walk around saying they are "ok" with a FWB situation, throw a man who will get on his knee for them and they'll drop their FWB situation in a heartbeat. I mean, we have endless threads of women in FWB situations where they wanna see the guy exclusively, get mad when he dumps them, etc.

 

Oh yes, I think that some men "do" want to commit to someone - but now a days, the women out there aren't worth it not cuz the guys can't get sex and/or companionship (FWBs, shack-ups, ONS) but cuz these women aren't marriage material (they are crass, rude, do not respect men, wanna make their own money but not contribute it to the family/marriage, don't wanna cook, clean, nuture, and/or raise the kids, have better things to do than sex the guy once they get the ring and/or kids).

 

And, the guy quoted in the OP, I think he's complaining about the latter....

[anduina]

It sounds like the guy's been chasing hot ladies where it annoys him no end that they reject him, the diamond in the rough. But most people pair with similar attractiveness partners so rejection shouldn't come as a surprise.

[understand50]

And I congratulate you two on keeping it together, but IMO, you two came from a different generation (correct me if I'm wrong here.. ) where people weren't so flakey. They encounter a rough patch in the RL/marriage - they work it out...Women were raised better and had "something" to bring to a marriage (nuturing, cooking, raising a family). Men, took pride in being a "man" and supporting the wife and kids...In other words "traditional" and/or "old fashioned" values.

 

Thing is, now a days, I wouldn't recommend anyone get married young. Why? Because now a days people have "options" and really don't know what they want in a mate, themselves - much less "how" to chose a mate. And their parents are scared to give any input and/or are literally in absentia. The parents sit on the sidelines and just watch their kids marry whomever and 'may the chips fall where they may'.

 

So, young people now a days stumble in their teens, 20's and hopefully by 30's are finally figuring out who they are and what they want in a mate. Sad thing is that for women, by the the time they hit 30's, their biological clock is ticking...

 

Now, of the people who aren't wise enough now a days to wait until their late 20's and/or 30's to marry - we have the ones who have kids, marriages, etc - not knowing who they are, w/o the wisdom/input/guidance of their parents and/or not even financially capable of having a family....couple that with the "me, me, me" self-absorbed and lack of resilience that this generation has, these marriages, RLs, breeding that take place before 30's results in a lot of the chaos we see now a days - instead of couples like you and your wife sticking together, growing together, and making it happen.

 

Sad now a days, sad if you ask me...

 

Gloria25,

 

I just do not see myself and wife as being anything special. We were not wise, we were as shallow and self centered as anyone. We were just very much in love and lust with each other.

 

As for young marriages, 50% make it. I think the idea that you need, you should, you must, try and find the "right" mate. Going through many and sometimes endless relationships, is part of the problem. When you find them, does not matter the age, marry them. Do not endlessly try and search, while the "pool" goes down. I understand, the mind set of being afraid of commitment, but in the end, one must say yes. Getting married young, is not the tragedy, many make it out to be.

 

Gloria, I wish you all the luck, and love, in the world and that your search for whatever you need is successful.

[Lois_Griffin]

It sounds like the guy's been chasing hot ladies where it annoys him no end that they reject him, the diamond in the rough. But most people pair with similar attractiveness partners so rejection shouldn't come as a surprise.

Yup. It sounds like what they call a 'nice guy' rant.

 

The 'nice guys' are usually nice because they're not popular with the ladies and haven't had the chance to turn into d*cks like some guys do when they have no problem scoring women.

 

I think if a lot of these 'nice' guys suddenly became popular and had women all the time, they probably wouldn't nearly be so 'nice.'

[Got it]

I understand his concerns and do think that a number of men, and women, have unrealistic expectations in a SO. I think what people think they want/need and how the relationship should be is unreal.

 

BUT, I do take exception to his "diamond in the rough" idea. This continues to perpetrate the idea that women should be looking for men to change/fixed, etc. and I think that is a disservice to both sexes. Both parties should be taken as they are and go from there. No assumptions of improvement, changes. That is unfair.

 

I think there are great people in both genders. My only insight is we are our own worst enemy in romantic relationships and I think our baggage can get in the way in a number of relationships and why some people seem to cycle through the same outcome in their dating/personal relationships.

 

I think one can look at consistency in romantic and platonic relationships and I think some may see similar issues in both. Something to take note.

[Siquijor]

Yup, this dude sounds like he's been blown out by some chick and he's just venting out his frustrations. He does make a few valid points, though.

[GreenEyes1005]

Let's look at the other side of the coin.

 

Myself, I met my future wife at 15, started dating at 16, were lovers at 17, married at 19. Had our first child at 20, She is two years older. We have been together for 40 plus years.

 

Now, I am a guy that did commit, and stayed faithful. I am the type that many women are looking for when they hit 30ish. When I was 30ish, I was with my wife, and unavailable. This is the key, Men that will commit wont a family will do so early, will find the love of their life and then go fourth, though the good and the bad. There will be bumps along the way, infidelity (not during our marriage), overspending, green grass syndrome, but somehow they will make it work. We never hear about them.

 

Thus, these men are not available later in life, or on the "market". Problem is for many women in their 20s, who are "living" and having fun, these men are not even looked at, much less chased. These guys are too busy setting up their life, going to school, or in the military. Many marry early. They are not the cool guys. They will also not look at the partying, many ONS, or disdainful woman. Here is a link that may help the conversation.

 

The Benefits of Getting Married Young | The Art of Manliness

 

Gloria25, I am glad you are going to lay it out for your niece. Nature makes it much harder to have children after 30. Not impossible, just harder. Young girls should know all the facts, so they can live their life with eyes wide open. It is one thing to decide, it is another just to go along and not know. Knowledge is power.

 

For my wife and I, the fact that we married early and stayed together, lifted us both up economically, and allowed both of us to be happy for the most part. As LS is a testament, marriage has it up and downs. On the whole, I like being married. I like being married to her. I am still in love.

 

I am also, glad I am not a late 20ish, 30ish guy trying to find the right woman at this time. I think it would drive me nuts. Conversely, if my wife was to pass on at this time, for I do not see divorce as a option, I would be looking to my close female friends for marriage. Friends my wife and I have known most of our life's and have kept in touch. Affection can lead to love, late in life when both are looking for support and companionship. So again, I really would not be "On the Market".

 

My two cents.

 

 

I understand your thoughts on this, and I also understand how for men and women that marry young, they would also be unavailable due to that.

 

If in high school one would have asked me where I'd be at 30, I would've said married with children. However that is more of an exception these days and isn't as likely to happen as it was when my parents were young (they are also high school sweethearts and have been together 41 years).

 

Those "uncool" men who went to school or were in the military, well there were also "uncool" women doing the same. In fact, I was one of those girls. I dated people in college, but no one ever lasted.

 

Since being out of college, I have dated 4-5 men. Two of those were 1.5 year relationships, two lasted only a couple months, and this most recent venture was with a man who evidently is afraid of commitment. I'm simply saying that as a 29 year old woman with all her ducks in a row (own a house, own a car, college degree, good job, no kids, no prior marriage, and decent looking), it seems awfully difficult trying to find a man on the same page. Several of my female friends are in the same boat I'm in as well. Getting a date is no problem, but follow through or a lasting relationship seems to be a bit tougher.

[GreenEyes1005]

And I congratulate you two on keeping it together, but IMO, you two came from a different generation (correct me if I'm wrong here.. ) where people weren't so flakey. They encounter a rough patch in the RL/marriage - they work it out...Women were raised better and had "something" to bring to a marriage (nuturing, cooking, raising a family). Men, took pride in being a "man" and supporting the wife and kids...In other words "traditional" and/or "old fashioned" values.

 

Thing is, now a days, I wouldn't recommend anyone get married young. Why? Because now a days people have "options" and really don't know what they want in a mate, themselves - much less "how" to chose a mate. And their parents are scared to give any input and/or are literally in absentia. The parents sit on the sidelines and just watch their kids marry whomever and 'may the chips fall where they may'.

 

So, young people now a days stumble in their teens, 20's and hopefully by 30's are finally figuring out who they are and what they want in a mate. Sad thing is that for women, by the the time they hit 30's, their biological clock is ticking...

 

Now, of the people who aren't wise enough now a days to wait until their late 20's and/or 30's to marry - we have the ones who have kids, marriages, etc - not knowing who they are, w/o the wisdom/input/guidance of their parents and/or not even financially capable of having a family....couple that with the "me, me, me" self-absorbed and lack of resilience that this generation has, these marriages, RLs, breeding that take place before 30's results in a lot of the chaos we see now a days - instead of couples like you and your wife sticking together, growing together, and making it happen.

 

Sad now a days, sad if you ask me...

 

 

Agree so much with this!! Somehow I missed some of these posts, I'll have to catch up lol.

 

I definitely agree that these days, getting married young is typically not the best way to go about things. Most people I know from this generation who got married young are either divorced already or have had some major issues that have landed them in marriage counseling or a separation.

 

I think it's important that we all individually grow into ourselves and learn what we truly value in another person, and it's even more imperative that we love ourselves before trying to add a potential lifelong partner to our lives. That being said, by the time we usually get to that point (where we put ourselves first and are 100% comfortable in our own skin), we usually are closer to 30. And that is scary for women considering I think most of us didn't intend on having kids past that... Or at least past 35.

 

I also think it's highly important to be established on your own without a partner (unless you luck out and meet them early on). No one wants to feel like they don't bring enough to the table.

 

No one wants to settle or pick the wrong person, which is understandable, but after time chemistry and core values become more important than muscles or a perfect butt. Attraction is always the initial step, but after that it's all about chemistry and mindset.

[GreenEyes1005]

I understand his concerns and do think that a number of men, and women, have unrealistic expectations in a SO. I think what people think they want/need and how the relationship should be is unreal.

 

BUT, I do take exception to his "diamond in the rough" idea. This continues to perpetrate the idea that women should be looking for men to change/fixed, etc. and I think that is a disservice to both sexes. Both parties should be taken as they are and go from there. No assumptions of improvement, changes. That is unfair.

 

I think there are great people in both genders. My only insight is we are our own worst enemy in romantic relationships and I think our baggage can get in the way in a number of relationships and why some people seem to cycle through the same outcome in their dating/personal relationships.

 

I think one can look at consistency in romantic and platonic relationships and I think some may see similar issues in both. Something to take note.

 

I agree a lot with this. Completely agreed that no one should go into a relationship wanting to change a person. I know some people do that regularly (the "fixers"), but I personally have enough to worry about with my own self, I don't want the responsibility of changing or fixing anyone!

 

And yes, unfortunately, baggage does get in the way a lot of times. I personally don't really have much baggage, and want a man who doesn't either. I have dated people with quite a bit more baggage than I have and that doesn't bode well over time.