True reconciliation - or just making sure the OW/OM doesn't "win". (Updated)

[elaine567]

I watched Jerry Springer today for the first time actually - no lie.

It seemed to me the BWs there were determined to keep their man, whatever, just to stop the OW getting her claws into him.

 

I know Jerry Springer is all a set up, and over-dramatic trash television, but it made me think.

 

Are some BSs staying put, not solely because they love their man/woman, their kids, their life, their house, their "married" status etc. but also to make sure the other man/woman doesn't "win"?

 

Is "winning" enough of a drive to attempt reconciliation?

Is "winning" enough of a drive to override other concerns re the marriage?

Is the thought of the new man/new woman taking over their spousal role too much to bear, and anything is better than that?

Is there a gender split?

Are women or men more determined to keep their man/woman in the face of competition?

Can it sometimes be a hollow "victory"?

[autumnnight]

Visit a couple about 3 or 4years after dday...and observe them closely. Its easy to tell true reconciliation from.....well, not.

[ladydesigner]

Are some BSs staying put, not solely because they love their man/woman, their kids, their life, their house, their "married" status etc. but also to make sure the other man/woman doesn't "win"

 

Well I think in the beginning I may have had that "I do not want her to win" mentality, but now after False R and WH not leaving, I kinda wish she had won him

 

I'm stuck like a duck now! Well not really, but kind of.

[Clay]

I watched it and thought the same thing. It just seems crazy to me the things people will do. I also listened to a war of the roses today where a woman said the exact same thing about the BW. She said she doesn't just as long as he doesn't go back to his xW.

 

I am sure its just a peek into how messed up these people really are.

 

Clay

[casey.lives]

not for me. I only want love and I believe that if it was meant for me.. it would have been free to begin with. I don't compete for love

[drifter777]

Visit a couple about 3 or 4years after dday...and observe them closely. Its easy to tell true reconciliation from.....well, not.

What magic wand can you wave to determine whether another couples R is real or not? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[Mr. Lucky]

What magic wand can you wave to determine whether another couples R is real or not? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

 

The ones reenacting "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" right in front of you usually fall into the "not" category ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[autumnnight]

What magic wand can you wave to determine whether another couples R is real or not? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

 

When the WS makes no changes and has no remorse, it's not real reconciliation. When they DO, and years later the BS still treats them as second class, feels disdain, and rants on the internet about how awful they are, it's not real reconciliation.

 

It may be some facsimile of marriage, but it's not real reconciliation.

[goodyblue]

When the WS makes no changes and has no remorse, it's not real reconciliation. When they DO, and years later the BS still treats them as second class, feels disdain, and rants on the internet about how awful they are, it's not real reconciliation.

 

It may be some facsimile of marriage, but it's not real reconciliation.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[MuddyFootprints]

I'm quite sure I was an ego prize early in 'reconciliation'.

 

I've proven myself a true prize and so has he.

 

No doubt, we've both won.

 

- Truly reconciled.

[BetrayedH]

I have to say, I've seen the competition and "winning" theme you mention play out in far more BW/OW situations (on both sides of the coin) than I've seen happen with men. I actually find it somewhat bizarre. It's a very curious thing.

 

I do think that BH's feel emasculated and angry. But I'm not sure I've seen many attempt reconciliation in an attempt to "win." In my mind, there was no winning over the OM; he had won already by bedding my wife.

 

I don't mean any offense to women. I apologize if it's too late for that apology. It's just a dynamic I've seen play out for the female gender more frequently. There are definitely times that a BW or OW has outright said that they're staying with the MM to keep him away from the wife/other woman. They even admit that they don't want him but "she's certainly not going to have him."

 

I hate to see it play out because all too often the MM is the one who actually wins while two women compete for him. It's a horrid dynamic.

[Arieswoman]

The best way to get one over on the OW is to let her keep the weak, pathetic, lying, POS

 

As a PS to that, I got some feedback, many years later about how the OW felt now she finally "had" my exH.

 

Apparently she told her friends that "she wasn't as happy as she thought she would be, being married to him" and that "he was moody, lazy and had to be pushed into every decision".

 

I nearly bust myself laughing.

 

It reminded me of the old adage that says " don't wish for what you want, because you might get it " !

Edited June 27, 2015 by Arieswoman

[waterwoman]

Maybe in some cases. I don't think there was in ours but maybe I'm kidding myself. By the time H told me the proper truth a few days after I found some texts, OW was history. She was so scared of her H finding out she went quietly. There was no winning when the opposition had already run off the field.

 

I confess if they had ended up together I'd have been disappointed I guess. She's nice but a bit limited, ordinary I suppose.

[sandylee1]

I have to say, I've seen the competition and "winning" theme you mention play out in far more BW/OW situations (on both sides of the coin) than I've seen happen with men. I actually find it somewhat bizarre. It's a very curious thing.

 

I do think that BH's feel emasculated and angry. But I'm not sure I've seen many attempt reconciliation in an attempt to "win." In my mind, there was no winning over the OM; he had won already by bedding my wife.

 

I don't mean any offense to women. I apologize if it's too late for that apology. It's just a dynamic I've seen play out for the female gender more frequently. There are definitely times that a BW or OW has outright said that they're staying with the MM to keep him away from the wife/other woman. They even admit that they don't want him but "she's certainly not going to have him."

 

I hate to see it play out because all too often the MM is the one who actually wins while two women compete for him. It's a horrid dynamic.

 

BH, You know even as a woman I agree with you. Far too often , I see women tolerate horrendous betrayals and yet still reconcile.

 

Women just don't want to loose and I've heard times where they just don't want the OW to get her husband , but let's be honest here. .....you can't keep a man if he doesn't really want to be with you. No matter how much a wife loves her husband , if he loves another woman and wants to be with her........he will do just that.

[merrmeade]

• Are some BSs staying put, not solely because they love their man/woman, their kids, their life, their house, their "married" status etc. but also to make sure the other man/woman doesn't "win"?
  
• Is "winning" enough of a drive to attempt reconciliation?
  
• Is "winning" enough of a drive to override other concerns re the marriage?
  
• Is the thought of the new man/new woman taking over their spousal role too much to bear, and anything is better than that?
  
• Is there a gender split?
  
• Are women or men more determined to keep their man/woman in the face of competition?
  
• Can it sometimes be a hollow "victory?

"

What is "it" anyway? - a hollow victory, keeping their man/woman, "winning"? Well, then, no. It's not worth it. But this is also a hollow analysis if you will. I'd say that the ones who make it to Jerry Springer are already past revenge and spite if they're willing to expose each other like that or think they could get anything constructive from the experience.

 

But I'll admit that it would bother me if I finally decided to give up on R with WH because he's so slow and clumsy with it, we went our separate ways and then I found out (as would happen because women find him and he knows how to be found) he was in a new relationship. It would royally piss me off but also make me feel like a loser EVEN THOUGHT I "know" better.

 

That is a thought but it's not the driving force of my efforts to R. I think that's the difference. I've recently explained to WH that he's not meeting my expectations and I'm not interested in less. It was good and we were both ready. He surprised me a little. Not much; just a little. Since this talk, I've not kept any A-related thoughts to myself IF they threaten to take me down. That right there is a deal-breaker for me, for example. So the point is R is a work in progress and I'm thinking probably never ends though at some point it becomes making the marriage better instead of fixing it. That would be post-R I guess. But that's not "winning."

[merrmeade]

BH, You know even as a woman I agree with you. Far too often , I see women tolerate horrendous betrayals and yet still reconcile.

 

Women just don't want to loose and I've heard times where they just don't want the OW to get her husband , but let's be honest here. .....you can't keep a man if he doesn't really want to be with you. No matter how much a wife loves her husband , if he loves another woman and wants to be with her........he will do just that.

There are so many more A to R situations than just WH still in love with OW.

 

I would be an example of a woman tolerating "horrendous betrayals" and still reconciling perhaps. Perhaps. Because I'm not tolerating them at all. They fked me up big time. And I have no idea if what I'm doing is "reconciling" at all. I'm giving ultimatums and saying that he has to show me in words what he understands. For myself, I have to get to where I can hold him accountable. It's more about me and him as people with issues. Moving myself through owning and controlling this reality and holding him accountable in words. I'd like to make it work, but he has a long way to go. That's all I know. It has nothing to do with what he did and everything to do with how he sees it now. No winning or losing.

 

Your second paragraph is Jerry Springer talk and hardly analysis. As I said, what's "winning"? You've already boxed women into a place of superficial, ego-fed drive with no other motivation than "not losing."

[sandylee1]

There are so many more A to R situations than just WH still in love with OW.

 

I would be an example of a woman tolerating "horrendous betrayals" and still reconciling perhaps. Perhaps. Because I'm not tolerating them at all. They fked me up big time. And I have no idea if what I'm doing is "reconciling" at all. I'm giving ultimatums and saying that he has to show me in words what he understands. For myself, I have to get to where I can hold him accountable. It's more about me and him as people with issues. Moving myself through owning and controlling this reality and holding him accountable in words. I'd like to make it work, but he has a long way to go. That's all I know. It has nothing to do with what he did and everything to do with how he sees it now. No winning or losing.

 

Your second paragraph is Jerry Springer talk and hardly analysis. As I said, what's "winning"? You've already boxed women into a place of superficial, ego-fed drive with no other motivation than "not losing."

 

There's nothing personal in my comments and I acknowledge that there are other infidelity situations. There are many men who stay with their wives too , despite horrible betrayals and I'm not saying all betrayals aren't horrible.

 

I was just agreeing with BH on his view of women in this context , so I'm not quite sure why the need to attack me on this one and equate my opinion to Jerry Springer talk.

 

You've done what you feel is best for you , I wasn't being personal and my opinion is based on my work with families affected by infidelity and reading how betrayed spouses feel.

[Arieswoman]

sandylee1,

 

Far too often , I see women tolerate horrendous betrayals and yet still reconcile.

 

Me too.

 

I have seen women forgive cheating husbands and then continue to have more children with them. In all the cases I know of the husband finally left with OW number 4. By this time these ladies were in their 50's and finding it hard to start life again after 25+ years of marriage.

 

I can't help but think they'd have saved themselves a lot of heartache if they'd just booted the sorry sod out after the first affair.

 

Why 2 women want to fight over a man like 2 bitches over a bone is beyond me

[fellini]

I thought that at first. The instinct not to let go of something makes sense. Having lived 18 years without ever doubting the trust and desire to be in a marriage, to suddenly have that thrust upon me made me reel

 

I think it's clear that losing TRUST is not the same thing as thinking your spouse might leave you for another. That is a clear threat. And while infidelity is a brutal awakening about "blind trust" or any kind of trust, the idea that the person you love might no longer be with you awakens a kind of instinctive fear in a lot of people.

 

This fear, during reconciliation, for me at least, gave way to other issues regarding whether I wanted or didn't want to stay with my WW.

 

So I don't see the fear of losing the WS to an AP as a impediment or criteria for whether there is a "true" or "false" reconciliation. I see it as a necessary human response to a situation not of my own making in which I must react quickly before I have the time and werewithall to fully reflect upon my future desires.

[No Limit]

Steve Wilkos is better than Jerry Springer.

 

But yeah, there are very many women who are desperate to just be in a relationship, doesn't matter with what guy. For guys it's usually tht they just want this one woman they're in love with when he's the BS.

[Noirek]

I've seen the competitive edge in woman but I think in some ways they are often just more honest and out there about it. There have been posts where that is in the back of the WH's mind. And what I have seen is BH who have reconciled because they do not want OM raising their kids. A different story entirely. This was not an issue in my case.

 

I have never been a competitive person in this sense. I've never wanted to win a guy. I've liked guys who have been "won" by someone else. In the dating seen the guys showed interest in two of us but ulitmately chose the more aggresive other person.

 

Another thing is people say things to cover their true hurt. Focusing on the win aspect could keep some people from sinking into the mire and giving up.

[sandylee1]

I also think the 'winning' applies more so when the OM/OW is single and available. There's less fear that as BS your WS will leave you for their AP if that person is married. I've had BWs feel relief when the single OW gets married or is in a relationship. They've stalked their FB and other social media to find out what she's doing years after dday.

 

Now it could be that men do this as well and just don't vocalise it.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say men aren't competitive though , in some ways they are more competitive than women. I know my husband won't even let the kids win a game or anything, where I would.

[BetrayedH]

BH, You know even as a woman I agree with you. Far too often , I see women tolerate horrendous betrayals and yet still reconcile.

 

Women just don't want to loose and I've heard times where they just don't want the OW to get her husband , but let's be honest here. .....you can't keep a man if he doesn't really want to be with you. No matter how much a wife loves her husband , if he loves another woman and wants to be with her........he will do just that.

 

I would add to this that I've seen it from the OW side of the coin also, perhaps even more often simply because MM so often stay with their wives after a Dday (and in general). In many cases, I've seen it be less about losing the MM and more about losing the MM to the wife, for whom they've developed a nearly irrational hate.

 

And I'd venture to perhaps disagree with your last sentence. I think a universal constant amongst cheaters is a lack of courage. They may 'love' the OW (color me skeptical on that one most of the time) but they are conflict-avoidant cowards and stay with the wife out of fear. To arieswoman's point, what is either woman winning?

[sandylee1]

I would add to this that I've seen it from the OW side of the coin also, perhaps even more often simply because MM so often stay with their wives after a Dday (and in general). In many cases, I've seen it be less about losing the MM and more about losing the MM to the wife, for whom they've developed a nearly irrational hate.

 

And I'd venture to perhaps disagree with your last sentence. I think a universal constant amongst cheaters is a lack of courage. They may 'love' the OW (color me skeptical on that one most of the time) but they are conflict-avoidant cowards and stay with the wife out of fear. To arieswoman's point, what is either woman winning?

 

Indeed, your first paragraph is often the case.

 

I'm happy for you to venture to disagree☺.

Maybe they do love the OW, but the thought of splitting assets, paying child support , not seeing the kids everyday, fear of change and looking like the bad guy......all this and more seem to beat the love for the OW.

[Friskyone4u]

This iead of "winning" is not healthy because it results in staying for the wrong reasonsd and also removes gthe concentration of where the problem really is.

 

Focusing too much on defeating the AP menas that you are transferring the anger and blame to the person who made no vows of fidelity to you. It is still a form of denial.

 

When I hear guys spew venom about predatory OM and all that crap all it tells me is they are not facing the truth. The AP could be any type predator they want to be but the WS made the decision to climb into bed with them.