Found porn on boyfriend's computer. Confronted him. Help!

[plumeria18]

I confronted my boyfriend of 2 years about finding pornography on our computer (found it a long while ago, just now confronted). It is not the pornography itself that has gotten me into a deep sadness, but what was said in our conversation about it..

 

We are very open with one another and very respectful to each other's feelings. I brought up the porn and asked if he would stop looking at it now that I am living with him and we are planning to get married. I gave myself perpetual UTI's from having sex w/ him several times a day, and I basically broke my body with all of the stress from constant lovemaking. I wanted to talk about why he felt the need to keep looking at porn when I was always willing to please him and was constantly having sex with him.

 

He was understanding and said he had already stopped looking on his own and would continue to refrain from his desires because of how it makes me feel. However,he said something that deeply disturbed me. He told me that the reason he looks at Girls Gone Wild and other porn is that he has an instinct and desire to see anything that is not ME. He said it's not that he finds them better or sexier than me..."the turn on is that they are someone who's not you. of course they have to be attractive, but it's the fact that it's someone else."

 

I understand the desire to look at pornography. I understand having sexual desires that are outside of your partner. But I am deeply depressed after what he said. Could it really be that I am Old Hat already... that he is turned on by someone literally because they are NOT ME? I'm devastated because we've always had an amazing sexual connection and however naiive it may be, I genuinely believed I was pretty much THE woman for him when it came to sexual desires.

 

Can anyone please shed insight on how to feel about his words, how I can move on without being hurt in the relationship? I'm starting to feel down on myself; I keep replaying his words and getting sad over the fact that he seeks out naked women of any kind as long as they aren't me. I'm 25 and he is 32. I am in shape and although I have my imperfections like anyone else, I think many men would say that I'm sexually desirable.

Edited June 14, 2015 by plumeria18

[Clarence_Boddicker]

It doesn't make sense to me. Unless it's changed GGW is just college girls flashing their boobies or doing obviously fake lesbian stuff. To me real porn is people having real sex. What makes porn exciting to me is how the performers react to each other. My attention is on the act of sex, not performers themselves. I only use porn as an aid to having better & faster orgasms, while I'm single. I have no need for porn or masturbation while I'm in a relationship.

 

 

If I was in your shoes I'd be pissed about your BF's douchy behavior. I don't think he's ready to be in a relationship.

[TaraMaiden2]

When you had sex with him to the point that you had UTIs - was it because you really, really were turned on by him and wanted to have sex with him, because your desire levels and libido were high, or because you wanted to prove to him that you were enough for him and always available for him to have sex with?

 

In other words, was the sex a mutual desire, or a manipulative effort on your part to direct his focus on you and away from porn?

 

Anyone who 'breaks their body with the all stress of constant lovemaking' isn't 'making love'.

 

Frankly, simply because a man is in a relationship and considering marriage, is no reason to stop watching and enjoying porn.

 

Countless happily-married, contented couples - parents, even - still enjoy watching porn, either together or occasionally, on their own.

 

The porn, in your case, really isn't the problem.

 

You have a drastically low opinion of yourself as a woman and partner.

You believe you have to be all things to this man, and you can't be.

 

No woman can.

 

And let's be honest here: No man can be everything to a woman either.

 

And that's where the turn-on of them not being you, lies.

He seeks variety, because variety is the spice.

It doesn't mean they're better than you, so quit trying to be better than them.

You're not better.

You're DIFFERENT.

In the same way that they are not better than you. They're just different.

 

Would you eat the same dish, day in, day out, three times a day, and in-between meals too, for the rest of your life?

Of course not.

And anyone telling you that you had to, were compelled to, and had no choice but to do that would be an idiot.

 

But that's what you are telling your BF he must do.

 

And by sacrificing your health and body to stress and UTI's is not the way to get him to do that.

 

Confucius said (genuinely!) "Seek not every quality in one individual".

 

Don't expect him to be the way you want him to be.

Don't try to fill his every need, because you can't.

Just as he cannot fill your every need.

He can't do that for you either.

[darkmoon]

is he always like this?

 

what is he like with you over other stuff?

and is he affectionate? romantic?

and do you argue with him always winning, getting the last word?

Edited June 14, 2015 by darkmoon

[Torii]

I agree with Tara Maiden.

 

 

The urge to watch pornography, to release some tension, is a normal part of our lives. If you didn't have that urge, to enjoy the act of sex - to get turned on by the simple act of sex - then I believe you would be the one for questioning what was going on.

 

 

Face it. Your boyfriend enjoyed pornograpy long before he met you and I guarantee his enjoyment will continue long after you're married.

 

His reasoning for watching pornography, has absolutely nothing to do with you or your supposed attractiveness. It's a bit sad that you'd even make this about you - low self worth and esteem, much?

I don't care how you reason YOUR behavior around this, it's obvious that you're so consumed about being desired that you want the attention all the time. I'm sorry, but that's almost never going to happen - especially in a married couple. You're gonna have different work hours, you're gonna be exhausted, etc - and I believe that is when pornography comes into the relationship ; quicker release than by sex.

 

Your boyfriend finds you attractive. Otherwise he wouldn't be with you this long. Stop being so concerned over nothing. Pornography doesn't symbol your relationship, it doesn't consume your boyfriend every minute of every day. It's natural to get turned on by watching other people have sex. It's like your boyfriend told you, it's the act of sex itself and the fact that none of those people are you.

 

Don't be in such a rush to take this as an insult.

[Ninjainpajamas]

We are very open with one another and very respectful to each other's feelings.

 

That's what you think...don't think you know how men think and feel just because YOU think you talk about everything and from your perspective you think you understand and respect each others feelings...especially at your age, you know very little about men.

 

This is often an illusion, this is fabricating the ideal situation within a woman's mind...one that is easily sold to a woman in her mid 20's when you are a guy in his 30's. It's very easy because you perpetuate this ideal and feeling within yourself, all a guy has to do is feed that without raising any red flags for you to question it.

 

I brought up the porn and asked if he would stop looking at it now that I am living with him and we are planning to get married. I gave myself perpetual UTI's from having sex w/ him several times a day, and I basically broke my body with all of the stress from constant lovemaking. I wanted to talk about why he felt the need to keep looking at porn when I was always willing to please him and was constantly having sex with him.

 

At this point you were never going to get an honest answer, he's going to try and fabricate a response that HE thinks will kind of put the attention off what he is doing and make you feel less bad about it.

 

I don't understand why you don't see a connection to the girls gone wild and yourself, you are/were the right age group, he's just wife-ing up one of his own girls gone wild...but he wants to look at more than just you, and have sex with more than just you.

 

He was understanding and said he had already stopped looking on his own and would continue to refrain from his desires because of how it makes me feel.

 

Typical response..what do you expect the guy to say? he can obviously tell it's bothering you and jeopardizes the relationship, your young, all love struck with puppy dog eyes claiming all this pain and betrayal...if he doesn't at least lie about it and try and make it seem like he'll stop, he would only do more damage.

 

However,he said something that deeply disturbed me. He told me that the reason he looks at Girls Gone Wild and other porn is that he has an instinct and desire to see anything that is not ME. He said it's not that he finds them better or sexier than me..."the turn on is that they are someone who's not you. of course they have to be attractive, but it's the fact that it's someone else."

 

Guys drop the ball at one point, and that's usually between being partially honest and watering down the down so it's easier to swallow. He was a bit too honest here, and this is going to hurt him in the long run...he didn't do a good job of deflecting and sugar-coating the truth here, maybe he thought you'd just not take it personal.

 

I understand the desire to look at pornography. I understand having sexual desires that are outside of your partner. But I am deeply depressed after what he said. Could it really be that I am Old Hat already... that he is turned on by someone literally because they are NOT ME? I'm devastated because we've always had an amazing sexual connection and however naiive it may be, I genuinely believed I was pretty much THE woman for him when it came to sexual desires.

 

Honestly, don't even understand why this is so disturbing if you accept the first fact that he'll have sexual desires outside of the partner.

 

You're a woman...you don't understand by default why men look at porn or even other women...other than what you're told or what you think, you don't have a penis at the end of the day. As far as your understanding of him having sexual desires outside of his partner, you should've just settled at that point...but as a typical woman you dug at it and made him answer a very stupid question with no right answer, one that any guy is going to answer the same.

 

You are the old hat, you will be the old hat...the guy is obviously into younger women, once you get older, fatter and having babies you're not going to be the apple of his eye anymore. You're younger than him and that's a big pull for older guys, but you won't be forever, you too will be out of that youthful glowing age group he prefers by watching young women flash cameras...that's not porn men usually watch.

 

You're naive and foolish thinking your "amazing sexual connection" meant that would be it for him, and then he'd like no longer need anyone else...that's not how men work, a mans sexuality is not yours to claim, but the good guys put on a nice act.

 

Why do you think when a man supposedly being honest and open, he's only telling you the things you want to hear and believe and not things like that...you think it's because they don't exist?...fantasy world.

 

It doesn't matter how much sex you have with him, or sexy outfits you wear, or how high the heels you put on are or short the skirt...it doesn't work that way, a guy gets used to you no matter what you look like...that's why there's gorgeous women out there who are perfect 10's that are single, some guy had sex with them and then eventually left for something else...he didn't just shack it up and spend the rest of his life with her for being so beautiful or because she had sex with him every day.

 

Can anyone please shed insight on how to feel about his words, how I can move on without being hurt in the relationship? I'm starting to feel down on myself; I keep replaying his words and getting sad over the fact that he seeks out naked women of any kind as long as they aren't me. I'm 25 and he is 32. I am in shape and although I have my imperfections like anyone else, I think many men would say that I'm sexually desirable.

 

I've given you more insight than you're capable or processing, let alone believing at your age, or maybe even as a woman.

 

You can only move on from the relationship accepting the situation for what it really is, yes he finds you attractive, yes you have sexual chemistry...but it doesn't make you the only girl he wants to see naked or sleep with in the world.

 

Men need variety, men need female visual stimulation at least...it's not about any one woman, there is no woman that dominates her mans complete sexual desire, you don't have the right to own that...you don't just come into a guys life and take that over, pitch your tent and claim the space...that's never going to happen and hopefully you already realized that message now.

 

As far as you being sexually desirable...men would have sex with a tree with coconuts for breast if it were dancing in a night club, never compare your sexual desire to what your man does or what men in general desire, unless you gain a significant amount of weight.

 

I guarantee you can be much uglier and still have this problem because it doesn't work that way, you can't like have enough sex appeal to like win a guy over...and men will find another woman more sexually desirable than you, even if she's uglier, merely because he's never had sex with her and had sex with you a million times.

 

Eventually he'll stop pounding your young vagina less and less over time, and start looking at more porn.

 

Welcome to the real world.

[preraph]

Don't marry this guy. He is in no way ready for any type of commitment. He is a variety seeker. That's okay for a few years in your late teens and early 20s, but it's never good in a spouse. He's way over the top about it. Please just leave him behind and find someone less focused on his d***.

[SammySammy]

I wish women would understand a man's porn watching (and masturbation) has nothing to do with her desirability or attractiveness. That it does not diminish her in any way.

 

Yet, many women are convinced that they must force their men to stop watching porn or to stop masturbating because they are sure it harms her or the relationship in some way.

 

smh

[TaraMaiden2]

(I'm wondering why the same courtesy of understanding is never sought the other way...?

 

I mean, how many guys have ever said, "We men should be more understanding of how porn-watching makes our SO/ladies feel..."...?)

[TheGuard13]

Or maybe it does have something to do with a particular type of attraction, but what does that mean at the end of the day? Nothing, really.

 

Sometimes I watch porn where the women have big breasts because I like that. My girlfriend has smaller breasts. I love them and love her, but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life avoiding the fact that big breasts are out there and that I like them. I'm sure a LOT of men watch porn for a similar reason, to experience variety. Heck, it's pretty much been scientifically proven, hasn't it?

 

Variety is indeed the spice of life. If I like dramas, does that mean I can't watch an action movie from time to time? Of course not. That would be ridiculous to limit your experience thusly.

 

As a previous poster said, there is no way one women can be all things to her man. It's just not possible. Eventually you'd run out of wigs and and the constant plastic surgeries and body/soul transfers would become exhausting.

 

The suggestion that because a spouse likes the idea of variety in sexual experience that he is not fit to be a spouse is laughable at best. Not only is this guy not way over the top about porn (Girls Gone Wild is pretty tame stuff), but he was HONEST about his reasons for doing so. He basically came right out and said "I watch porn for the variety".

 

If you're not comfortable with this aspect of him, then don't marry him. If that's the case, you are probably not compatible, and don't see the world the same way. That will cause problems beyond porn in the future.

[TheGuard13]

(I'm wondering why the same courtesy of understanding is never sought the other way...?

 

I mean, how many guys have ever said, "We men should be more understanding of how porn-watching makes our SO/ladies feel..."...?)

 

It often. I'm sure plenty of men have. Doesn't sound like he watched it in front of her in this case. She "stumbled" across it on their computer.

 

It's all well and good to be sensitive to the subject, but no partner can control how someone feels about themselves and their self esteem.

[SammySammy]

(I'm wondering why the same courtesy of understanding is never sought the other way...?

 

I mean, how many guys have ever said, "We men should be more understanding of how porn-watching makes our SO/ladies feel..."...?)

 

Because her feeling is unreasonable?

 

By her own admission, this guy is watching porn AND wearing her body out. It obviously does not affect his performance or how sexy she is to him.

 

As a man, even if I stopped having sex with my woman, porn (or masturbation) would not be the reason I didn't or "couldn't" perform.

 

I've never ... ever ... gotten a woman to believe that, but it's true.

[TaraMaiden2]

Because her feeling is unreasonable?

I can see that, and my post, I think, reflects that...

 

By her own admission, this guy is watching porn AND wearing her body out. It obviously does not affect his performance or how sexy she is to him.

Yes, but I think it's kinda obvious that the real issue in this particular scenario really isn't the porn.

It's her own self-image, self-esteem and personal self-evaluation. She basically went all out with the sex, to effect a particular result - to no avail.

 

As a man, even if I stopped having sex with my woman, porn (or masturbation) would not be the reason I didn't or "couldn't" perform.

 

I've never ... ever ... gotten a woman to believe that, but it's true.

Well, FWIW if you say so, I believe it.

But the fact is, women disbelieve it for a reason.

And it's not always our fault if we disbelieve it.

Because there have been countless threads on here with women complaining their guys watch porn and masturbate frequently, but never make love with them....

[autumnnight]

Here's the deal:

 

It is fine for men to watch as much porn as they want and gawk at women.

 

You, however, better not be to friendly with anyone.

 

Or at least that is what I have observed lately.

 

And somehow this isn't a double standard....

[SammySammy]

OP, I've seen your edit. I don't believe that changes anything. It's still porn. It's fantasy.

 

Look, I watch all types of porn. I watch midget porn - don't want to have sex with midgets. I watch mature porn - don't want to have sex with old ladies (not yet anyway ). I came across PAWG porn the other day. White girls with big giant butts. The last thing I want in my bed is a white girl with a giant booty.

 

But, I'll watch it. Get off to it. Then still nail my gf three times a day. It's a release. Fantasy.

 

Your man, like me, seems to have a vivid imagination. Even if you were successful at forcing him to stop watching porn, his fantasies would probably be of women who were different from you. You would still be beautiful and sexy to him. And he will be bewildered why you're making such a big deal out of what amounts to a fantasy.

[preraph]

I wish women would understand a man's porn watching (and masturbation) has nothing to do with her desirability or attractiveness. That it does not diminish her in any way.

 

Yet, many women are convinced that they must force their men to stop watching porn or to stop masturbating because they are sure it harms her or the relationship in some way.

 

smh

 

I wish men would understand that the very act of watching some woman exploiting herself for money means she has some very serious mental issues and that these are not cartoon characters getting end of reel facials but women who have usually been molested or otherwise oversexualized as children or they wouldn't be doing this. And then on top of that, yes, men will compare their women to them. From my perspective there is nothing sadder or more insulting than to use a wholesaled porn actress and a woman who is trying to care about you and is making love to you to reach the same end.

[Keenly]

Here's the deal:

 

It is fine for men to watch as much porn as they want and gawk at women.

 

You, however, better not be to friendly with anyone.

 

Or at least that is what I have observed lately.

 

And somehow this isn't a double standard....

 

 

What the hell are you even talking about?

[Keenly]

I wish men would understand that the very act of watching some woman exploiting herself for money means she has some very serious mental issues and that these are not cartoon characters getting end of reel facials but women who have usually been molested or otherwise oversexualized as children or they wouldn't be doing this. And then on top of that, yes, men will compare their women to them. From my perspective there is nothing sadder or more insulting than to use a wholesaled porn actress and a woman who is trying to care about you and is making love to you to reach the same end.

 

So you want men to see porn the way you see porn.

 

You want other people to come to the same conclusion and have the same feelings that you do. But life doesn't work that way.

 

Controlling what a man sees and what you believe or don't believe he should be allowed to see is just insane.

[123321]

Here's the deal:

 

It is fine for men to watch as much porn as they want and gawk at women.

 

You, however, better not be to friendly with anyone.

 

Or at least that is what I have observed lately.

 

And somehow this isn't a double standard....

 

I actually don't mind my GF looking at porn, several have, and it's fine. She's with me. She's choosing to be with me. As an additional bonus, it seemed to get the motors running real often, which I give 3 thumbs way up.

[SammySammy]

I wish men would understand that the very act of watching some woman exploiting herself for money means she has some very serious mental issues and that these are not cartoon characters getting end of reel facials but women who have usually been molested or otherwise oversexualized as children or they wouldn't be doing this. And then on top of that, yes, men will compare their women to them. From my perspective there is nothing sadder or more insulting than to use a wholesaled porn actress and a woman who is trying to care about you and is making love to you to reach the same end.

 

 

I respect you, Tara and so many other women on this site because you're so smart and insightful.

 

I never expected my opinions on this matter to be accepted by women. They never have been.

 

I'm just offering my perspective. How I - and I think many other men - disassociate porn from what's going on in their real world. While women have their point of view, I believe our perspective is just as valid and should be taken into consideration also. That's all.

[TaraMaiden2]

So you want men to see porn the way you see porn.

No, what we would like is for men to see why their watching porn can affect us the way it does...

 

 

You want other people to come to the same conclusion and have the same feelings that you do. But life doesn't work that way.

Again, no, that's not what we meant.

What we would like is for men to quit considering what we perceive as unfair, unjust and inconsiderate, when there are countless threads trying to explain this. As I have said, I honestly have yet to see a single thread, or comment from a man which empathises and understands, supports or even agrees with what women have expressed and explained....

 

Controlling what a man sees and what you believe or don't believe he should be allowed to see is just insane.

I completely agree.

But insisting that we are insane for having the temerity to express any concerns or problems with it, is equally barmy.

 

And unfair.

And simply goes to prove that either you can't understand, or don't want to.

 

A bit like my stance on Gun Control, probably.

[Taramere]

That's what you think...don't think you know how men think and feel just because YOU think you talk about everything and from your perspective you think you understand and respect each others feelings...especially at your age, you know very little about men.

 

This is often an illusion, this is fabricating the ideal situation within a woman's mind...one that is easily sold to a woman in her mid 20's when you are a guy in his 30's. It's very easy because you perpetuate this ideal and feeling within yourself, all a guy has to do is feed that without raising any red flags for you to question it.

 

 

 

At this point you were never going to get an honest answer, he's going to try and fabricate a response that HE thinks will kind of put the attention off what he is doing and make you feel less bad about it.

 

I don't understand why you don't see a connection to the girls gone wild and yourself, you are/were the right age group, he's just wife-ing up one of his own girls gone wild...but he wants to look at more than just you, and have sex with more than just you.

 

 

 

Typical response..what do you expect the guy to say? he can obviously tell it's bothering you and jeopardizes the relationship, your young, all love struck with puppy dog eyes claiming all this pain and betrayal...if he doesn't at least lie about it and try and make it seem like he'll stop, he would only do more damage.

 

 

 

Guys drop the ball at one point, and that's usually between being partially honest and watering down the down so it's easier to swallow. He was a bit too honest here, and this is going to hurt him in the long run...he didn't do a good job of deflecting and sugar-coating the truth here, maybe he thought you'd just not take it personal.

 

 

 

Honestly, don't even understand why this is so disturbing if you accept the first fact that he'll have sexual desires outside of the partner.

 

You're a woman...you don't understand by default why men look at porn or even other women...other than what you're told or what you think, you don't have a penis at the end of the day. As far as your understanding of him having sexual desires outside of his partner, you should've just settled at that point...but as a typical woman you dug at it and made him answer a very stupid question with no right answer, one that any guy is going to answer the same.

 

You are the old hat, you will be the old hat...the guy is obviously into younger women, once you get older, fatter and having babies you're not going to be the apple of his eye anymore. You're younger than him and that's a big pull for older guys, but you won't be forever, you too will be out of that youthful glowing age group he prefers by watching young women flash cameras...that's not porn men usually watch.

 

You're naive and foolish thinking your "amazing sexual connection" meant that would be it for him, and then he'd like no longer need anyone else...that's not how men work, a mans sexuality is not yours to claim, but the good guys put on a nice act.

 

Why do you think when a man supposedly being honest and open, he's only telling you the things you want to hear and believe and not things like that...you think it's because they don't exist?...fantasy world.

 

It doesn't matter how much sex you have with him, or sexy outfits you wear, or how high the heels you put on are or short the skirt...it doesn't work that way, a guy gets used to you no matter what you look like...that's why there's gorgeous women out there who are perfect 10's that are single, some guy had sex with them and then eventually left for something else...he didn't just shack it up and spend the rest of his life with her for being so beautiful or because she had sex with him every day.

 

 

 

I've given you more insight than you're capable or processing, let alone believing at your age, or maybe even as a woman.

 

You can only move on from the relationship accepting the situation for what it really is, yes he finds you attractive, yes you have sexual chemistry...but it doesn't make you the only girl he wants to see naked or sleep with in the world.

 

Men need variety, men need female visual stimulation at least...it's not about any one woman, there is no woman that dominates her mans complete sexual desire, you don't have the right to own that...you don't just come into a guys life and take that over, pitch your tent and claim the space...that's never going to happen and hopefully you already realized that message now.

 

As far as you being sexually desirable...men would have sex with a tree with coconuts for breast if it were dancing in a night club, never compare your sexual desire to what your man does or what men in general desire, unless you gain a significant amount of weight.

 

I guarantee you can be much uglier and still have this problem because it doesn't work that way, you can't like have enough sex appeal to like win a guy over...and men will find another woman more sexually desirable than you, even if she's uglier, merely because he's never had sex with her and had sex with you a million times.

 

Eventually he'll stop pounding your young vagina less and less over time, and start looking at more porn.

 

Welcome to the real world.

 

I'm trying to figure out which you hate more. Women, or life itself.

[Keenly]

No, what we would like is for men to see why their watching porn can affect us the way it does...

 

 

 

Again, no, that's not what we meant.

What we would like is for men to quit considering what we perceive as unfair, unjust and inconsiderate, when there are countless threads trying to explain this. As I have said, I honestly have yet to see a single thread, or comment from a man which empathises and understands, supports or even agrees with what women have expressed and explained....

 

 

I completely agree.

But insisting that we are insane for having the temerity to express any concerns or problems with it, is equally barmy.

 

And unfair.

And simply goes to prove that either you can't understand, or don't want to.

 

A bit like my stance on Gun Control, probably.

 

 

If your man looking at another woman bothers you, that's on you. Its the exact same as smoking. If your partner is a smoker, and you are bothered by it, YOU are the one with the problem.

 

Women fantasize about men in other ways usually via story (see 50 shades of lame, various romance novels) and men fantasize about women in more visual ways.

 

It is normal and healthy for people in committed relationships to fantasize about other people. Its called being human. No one person on the planet can say with honesty that they have not once in their lives fantasized about some one else.

[SammySammy]

If your man looking at another woman bothers you, that's on you. Its the exact same as smoking. If your partner is a smoker, and you are bothered by it, YOU are the one with the problem.

 

Women fantasize about men in other ways usually via story (see 50 shades of lame, various romance novels) and men fantasize about women in more visual ways.

 

It is normal and healthy for people in committed relationships to fantasize about other people. Its called being human. No one person on the planet can say with honesty that they have not once in their lives fantasized about some one else.

 

So true.

 

They fantasize also. Just because our fantasies are visual doesn't make our fantasies more harmful to them or the relationship.

[TaraMaiden2]

 

I respect you, Tara and so many other women on this site because you're so smart and insightful.

 

I never expected my opinions on this matter to be accepted by women. They never have been.

 

I'm just offering my perspective. How I - and I think many other men - disassociate porn from what's going on in their real world. While women have their point of view, I believe our perspective is just as valid and should be taken into consideration also. That's all.

 

You quoted preraph, so I'm not sure to whom you were replying, as I also responded to your previous post...

 

 

I'm not saying your perspective isn't valid.

What I will say however, is that if you will forgive the terminology, men have been banging the "it's just the way we are and it doesn't mean anything" for as long as porn has existed, and justifying that as a right to continue doing so unabated, while women have also been trying to express their own side of things and still don't feel they've been listened to, or heard.

Evidence would imply that due to the relative lack of empathy and understanding openly displayed anywhere by men, their complaints of not being listened to, or heard, seem largely justified.