NJ123 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm having a debate with some woman in another forum & she's claiming that she wouldn't get into a serious relationship with someone that's not good looking & doesn't have a good career & also says that's not having high standards or isn't being a gold digger. Which I think personally she is to both since she's looking at income/looks before anything else. She claims she's good looking & has a good career herself, but wouldn't get into a serious relationship with a waiter even though she found him really attractive. And said she wouldn't get into a relationship with a lawyer because she wasn't attracted enough to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Divasu Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 My sister married an extremely attractive man who had a good career. But my sister is also attractive, and, had a good career (though I would say his career over the years they've been married has gone from average income, to way above average income). Link to post Share on other sites
heartshaped Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 My rule of thumb is you have to be able to support yourself and I have to be attracted to you. You don't have to be a model or a doctor, but I'm not looking for someone who I find unattractive and can't pay his own bills either. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Yeah, it still seems pretty subjective. What's a "good" career, to her? Meaning anything more steady than a waiting job? Then that, combined with good looks (subjective again) doesn't seem so crazy to me. I think it's all in the framing of it. We hear a lot on here about women's "unreasonable" standards but I think most women would agree with what heartshaped said: you have to be able to support yourself and I have to be attracted to you Put that way, is it really so unreasonable? It's easy to make it sound crazy if you attach some arbitrary stuff like "he has to be a model" or "he has to be a lawyer", but if you strip away the angry and just pare it down to the essentials, it's generally just the above. So how far is that from the claim made by the woman you were discussing this with, OP? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm having a debate with some woman in another forum & she's claiming that she wouldn't get into a serious relationship with someone that's not good looking & doesn't have a good career & also says that's not having high standards or isn't being a gold digger. Which I think personally she is to both since she's looking at income/looks before anything else. She claims she's good looking & has a good career herself, but wouldn't get into a serious relationship with a waiter even though she found him really attractive. And said she wouldn't get into a relationship with a lawyer because she wasn't attracted enough to him. If she is good looking and has a good career, it makes sense that she would want the same in a mate, a peer. I don't see that as gold-digging at all. I see nothing wrong with factoring income and earning potential into dating decisions, by either men or women. Money is important in a marriage. I'd prefer someone who also considers money and income over someone who believed that money doesn't matter. I don't think she should be condemned and called a gold-digger for this. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lady2163 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I've weighed in on finances on other posts. Here's what it boils down to for me. No debt other than house or car. Period. No credit card debts, no college debt (I'm older). That is what I expect on the debt side of things. Assests....must have a retirement plan. Must be able to do some regular leisure activites and one or two good vacations or splurges a year. So for my location, a man would probably have to net close to $4000 a month. And that's just a quick calculation. I'm not saying he has to pay my way on vacations and such, I'm saying he has to be able to pay his own way...and not go in debt. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NJ123 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 If she is good looking and has a good career, it makes sense that she would want the same in a mate, a peer. I don't see that as gold-digging at all. I see nothing wrong with factoring income and earning potential into dating decisions, by either men or women. Money is important in a marriage. I'd prefer someone who also considers money and income over someone who believed that money doesn't matter. I don't think she should be condemned and called a gold-digger for this. Well, she keeps ducking the question of what she does for a living. Which tells me she's hiding something. But what just seems wrong to me is she's going after money/looks first strictly before anything else. Why is money above common interests or personality? Something is wrong there to me personally. That's not someone I'd want to be with if I knew someone was with me only because I met her desired requirements in income first before my personality. Link to post Share on other sites
Divasu Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Well, she keeps ducking the question of what she does for a living. Which tells me she's hiding something. But what just seems wrong to me is she's going after money/looks first strictly before anything else. Why is money above common interests or personality? Something is wrong there to me personally. That's not someone I'd want to be with if I knew someone was with me only because I met her desired requirements in income first before my personality. Why does she owe you personally, any explanation? This is, from what you say, some random stranger on a message forum. Nonetheless, also consider priorities. Perhaps she was married to or dated a man in the past that shifted her perception. Perhaps her perception now is geared more towards a mate that she believes would be more "appropriate" for her in this stage in her life. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 My rule of thumb is you have to be able to support yourself and I have to be attracted to you. You don't have to be a model or a doctor, but I'm not looking for someone who I find unattractive and can't pay his own bills either. Thank you ^^ I mean I kidd you not, but even "males" like you described are becoming extinct. Aziz Ansari on his Netflix comedy special was talking about how bad dating has gotten for women. Now a days they just want a man who is 'nice and clean'. So, women are so desperate and lowered their standards where all they want is a man who says sweet things to them and showers....sad. I, for the past few years often thought to myself and said to others that I wish I was a man, cuz now a days, the only thing you need to get a woman is a "penis and a pulse". I want more than a penis and a pulse. Yes, I have my own things and do not need a man to have kids with. But I'm tired of the slackers and bums. I'm tired of guys who expect women to move in with them, pay half of their bills, and/or pay on dates. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NJ123 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Why does she owe you personally, any explanation? This is, from what you say, some random stranger on a message forum. Nonetheless, also consider priorities. Perhaps she was married to or dated a man in the past that shifted her perception. Perhaps her perception now is geared more towards a mate that she believes would be more "appropriate" for her in this stage in her life. Because she keeps saying things that don't make sense. And no she's never been married, but claims she wants someone with ambition & not just any job but an equal to her. But she never says what she herself does for a living. And I don't really even care about her situation much since I don't even know her, but I just wanted to know what others think about someone going after money/looks first & whether it was considered having high standards or being somewhat of a gold digger or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Camaro Guy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thank you ^^ I mean I kidd you not, but even "males" like you described are becoming extinct. Aziz Ansari on his Netflix comedy special was talking about how bad dating has gotten for women. Now a days they just want a man who is 'nice and clean'. So, women are so desperate and lowered their standards where all they want is a man who says sweet things to them and showers....sad. I, for the past few years often thought to myself and said to others that I wish I was a man, cuz now a days, the only thing you need to get a woman is a "penis and a pulse". I want more than a penis and a pulse. Yes, I have my own things and do not need a man to have kids with. But I'm tired of the slackers and bums. I'm tired of guys who expect women to move in with them, pay half of their bills, and/or pay on dates. For some reason, I don't believe this. It seems that standards have skyrocketed... or I just can't meet them. Link to post Share on other sites
Divasu Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Because she keeps saying things that don't make sense. And no she's never been married, but claims she wants someone with ambition & not just any job but an equal to her. But she never says what she herself does for a living. And I don't really even care about her situation much since I don't even know her, but I just wanted to know what others think about someone going after money/looks first & whether it was considered having high standards or being somewhat of a gold digger or not. Perhaps your best course of action when someone or something is not making sense to you, is back off. Because most likely, she is only going to share with you (of whom she doesn't know from Adam), what she chooses to share. And if you come across as judgmental, she may very well clam up even more. As for other people's opinions, I shared an example, and I don't believe my sister was wrong in her choosing of her husband. They both chose each other. Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Because she keeps saying things that don't make sense. And no she's never been married, but claims she wants someone with ambition & not just any job but an equal to her. But she never says what she herself does for a living. And I don't really even care about her situation much since I don't even know her, but I just wanted to know what others think about someone going after money/looks first & whether it was considered having high standards or being somewhat of a gold digger or not. Arguably, everyone goes after looks first because that's the first thing you see about a person. Do you go after women you think are ugly? And I personally see nothing wrong with a woman who makes a good living to want a man who is her equal in that regard. That's hardly being a "golddigger." Further, I don't think wanting someone who is good looking (to you) and who has a good career is having "high standards." Frankly, I think that should be the bare minimum. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Someone with a well-established financial situation etc just won't go searching below. Some men may like the idea of "buying" a wife who in turn has to accept his every whim, but I've never heard of a woman buying a husband. Paying everything for their lover/affair partner maybe, but not a husband. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NJ123 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Arguably, everyone goes after looks first because that's the first thing you see about a person. Do you go after women you think are ugly? And I personally see nothing wrong with a woman who makes a good living to want a man who is her equal in that regard. That's hardly being a "golddigger." Further, I don't think wanting someone who is good looking (to you) and who has a good career is having "high standards." Frankly, I think that should be the bare minimum. I agree about the looks, but wanting both good looks/good career together first before anything else just seems odd to me. And so you're basically saying if you found someone you found good looking, and got along with them great, & loved their personality, huge amount of common interests, you still wouldn't be with them if their career job wasn't up to your standards? What if you never find a guy like that again that you get along with so well just because you turn a relationship down with him due to how much money he makes. Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I agree about the looks, but wanting both good looks/good career together first before anything else just seems odd to me. And so you're basically saying if you found someone you found good looking, and got along with them great, & loved their personality, huge amount of common interests, you still wouldn't be with them if their career job wasn't up to your standards? What if you never find a guy like that again that you get along with so well just because you turn a relationship down with him due to how much money he makes. How much money does this hypothetical man make? I have no desire to have to financially support a grown man. And no, I don't want to date a guy who works the grill at McDonald's either. It's very unlikely that I'm going to have a lot of common interests with a guy who (for example) makes minimum wage. If he is making minimum wage because he lacks ambition, we are not going to be compatible. If he is making minimum wage because he isn't intelligent enough to make more, we are not going to be compatible. If he is making minimum wage because he is a starving artist type, we are not going to be compatible. So, it's very hard for me to even be able to relate to your hypothetical situation. A man who is very low income is simply not compatible with me for any sort of long term relationship, and I can't imagine we would have many shared interests, or that he wouldn't have other issues that would be pink or red flags for me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Someone with a well-established financial situation etc just won't go searching below. Some men may like the idea of "buying" a wife who in turn has to accept his every whim, but I've never heard of a woman buying a husband. Paying everything for their lover/affair partner maybe, but not a husband. Oh, I've seen it. I know friends of friends who "bought" their husbands cars, homes, etc. And, for the ones that don't "buy" a husband per se. They take the "husband" role on (i.e. the provider) and their husband just does what he wants. He spends all the money, buys himself toys, wants them to move into X house in X neighborhood, she's paying "his" child support to his baby-mammas. Again, another reason I fear marrying some guy - when you start commingling finances and he starts overspending and/or slacking, now that you're a "united front" it may fall on you. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Wanting a guy with both a good career & good looks considered having high standards? Pretty normal, IME. He should also come from a socially established and connected family. This is known as social proof. For some ladies it's a want which goes wanting. For others not. For others it's a requirement of their socio-economic strata. Depends. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SycamoreCircle Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I've weighed in on finances on other posts. Here's what it boils down to for me. No debt other than house or car. Period. No credit card debts, no college debt (I'm older). That is what I expect on the debt side of things. Assests....must have a retirement plan. Must be able to do some regular leisure activites and one or two good vacations or splurges a year. So for my location, a man would probably have to net close to $4000 a month. And that's just a quick calculation. I'm not saying he has to pay my way on vacations and such, I'm saying he has to be able to pay his own way...and not go in debt. I'm a good looking guy. I work as a server in a restaurant. I make roughly 2K per month. I live in Brooklyn. I have a college degree. I have no debt. I have over 15K in CD's. I took a month vacation to Turkey and a two week vacation to Colombia this year. At the beginning of this year my live-in girlfriend of a year left me for a man who is a curator at an art gallery and probably pulls 70K a year. She called me a half-formed man to her family and friends. This is my story:-) Link to post Share on other sites
Author NJ123 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Oh, I've seen it. I know friends of friends who "bought" their husbands cars, homes, etc. And, for the ones that don't "buy" a husband per se. They take the "husband" role on (i.e. the provider) and their husband just does what he wants. He spends all the money, buys himself toys, wants them to move into X house in X neighborhood, she's paying "his" child support to his baby-mammas. Again, another reason I fear marrying some guy - when you start commingling finances and he starts overspending and/or slacking, now that you're a "united front" it may fall on you. I think that's in the huge minority though since most guys seem to not care at all about what a woman does for a living as long as they get along good & have common interests. I suppose women in general care more about a man's career than a guy does about a woman's. Link to post Share on other sites
ScreaminEagle Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 For the same reason I ask women fairly quickly if they want children, their answer is pivotal, if I don't like her answer why waste each others time? Link to post Share on other sites
Author NJ123 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm a good looking guy. I work as a server in a restaurant. I make roughly 2K per month. I live in Brooklyn. I have a college degree. I have no debt. I have over 15K in CD's. I took a month vacation to Turkey and a two week vacation to Colombia this year. At the beginning of this year my live-in girlfriend of a year left me for a man who is a curator at an art gallery and probably pulls 70K a year. She called me a half-formed man to her family and friends. This is my story:-) Ouch. She sounds like a heartless bitch & you're better off without her anyways. You'll find someone better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NJ123 Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 How much money does this hypothetical man make? I have no desire to have to financially support a grown man. And no, I don't want to date a guy who works the grill at McDonald's either. It's very unlikely that I'm going to have a lot of common interests with a guy who (for example) makes minimum wage. If he is making minimum wage because he lacks ambition, we are not going to be compatible. If he is making minimum wage because he isn't intelligent enough to make more, we are not going to be compatible. If he is making minimum wage because he is a starving artist type, we are not going to be compatible. So, it's very hard for me to even be able to relate to your hypothetical situation. A man who is very low income is simply not compatible with me for any sort of long term relationship, and I can't imagine we would have many shared interests, or that he wouldn't have other issues that would be pink or red flags for me. Fair enough in your situation. But what's wrong is when women who don't have much going for them themselves seek out guys who strictly want guys with great careers. If you're going to demand something like that out of someone you better damn well have something going for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 OP, would you consider it high standards if a guy wants a woman that is "hot" and also not crazy? Yes. Guys just know women can't be hot and sane at the same time. So we don't expect it. If you disagree, this might change your mind, hehe... http://youtu.be/hKWmFWRVLlU 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SycamoreCircle Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) How much money does this hypothetical man make? I have no desire to have to financially support a grown man. And no, I don't want to date a guy who works the grill at McDonald's either. It's very unlikely that I'm going to have a lot of common interests with a guy who (for example) makes minimum wage. If he is making minimum wage because he lacks ambition, we are not going to be compatible. If he is making minimum wage because he isn't intelligent enough to make more, we are not going to be compatible. If he is making minimum wage because he is a starving artist type, we are not going to be compatible. So, it's very hard for me to even be able to relate to your hypothetical situation. A man who is very low income is simply not compatible with me for any sort of long term relationship, and I can't imagine we would have many shared interests, or that he wouldn't have other issues that would be pink or red flags for me. What if he's making minimum wage because he's traveled to Cuba and other parts of the world and seen just how little people need to get by and how wasteful developed Western culture is and so rather than participate in the rat race he prefers to work fewer hours, live a simple, stress free life, be more resourceful and get by with less? How is that on the intelligence scale? Edited November 15, 2014 by SycamoreCircle 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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