Unhappy marriage/ unhappy person?

[experiencethedevine]

I have repeatedly witnessed over the years, and of late here, that there appears to be some discrepancy over which is the latter/former of the WS's 'unhappiness'. and the assumption that this person MUST be in an 'unhappy' marriage at the time of indulging in an affair.

 

I have experienced many situations where the marriage has 'issues' that need addressing and working toward common solutions, but also been privy to situations where the marriage IS to all intents, healthily functioning in all quarters (including the sexual frequency/intensity of the relationship).

 

The other person involved with the wayward frequently views the marriage as 'unsuccessful' by virtue of their involvement with the married person, pitched of course by the web of deceit and lies afforded them.

 

Is it not an interesting subject to debate that while the affair partner holds the belief that the lover's marriage is corroded/unsustainable/doomed, whether or not they have been led to this conclusion by the lover, that the perception of just pure greed and self indulgence, meaning that the spouse is unhappy as a person regardless. Could this be the catalyst for the wayward, or is that simply too much to consider in light of the affair as a whole?

[janedoe67]

The only real frame of reference I have is my own. For me, it was not as simple as fitting into one cut and dried category. So I will describe all three:

 

Unhappy marriage - no physical intimacy, no affection, I aspired to be the quintessential loving submissive wife and he did not want to lead, he could not keep a job and didn't really want to HAVE to work full time, we had a terribe cycle of me expressing feeling, him dissecting what he thought was illogical about the feeling, me trying to plead my case, him poking holes, me just caving in to stop the hurt

 

Unhappy person - I was NOT always an unhappy person....but at the point where I cheated I felt ugly, unworthy, as if my value was dependent on how someone else viewed me, no longer seemed to have the tools to validate myself, was insecure, was hard and angry and resentful

 

third party - I am not sure he individually was a factor, except that not only was he male and found me attractive, he seemed interested in ME and seemed to validate my stance that my husband should be paying attention to me; it would be inaccurate to say he "lured" me or anything because I willingly crossed boundaries

 

I do not think that everyone who cheats is in a horrific, soul-sucking marraige. I do think that a WS tends to...embellish history.

 

BUT...I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a person with a truly fulfilling marriage who is truly emotionally healthy just deciding to cheat one day.

[Spark1111]

My FWS was one depressed, complaining, miserable person briefly, and had distanced so many loving relationships.

 

We begged him to get counseling, meds, whatever it took to become whole and happy, especially with us.

 

Because we both loved and empathized with him, we alternated between trying too hard, or placing less demands upon him. Big mistake.

 

When he finally started to turn a corner, he crashed into her. She knew nothing of his personal failures and so he was allowed to reinvent himself in her adoring eyes and paint himself as one , true, bonafide hero sooo unappreciated.

 

Of course I and our kids were blamed. He didn't yet have the courage to see how his own actions led to how miserable he was.

 

In therapy he learned that it wasn't how little he was receiving from the marriage that was the source of his pain; it was how little he was giving to it, us, and all other interpersonal relationships.

 

Rings true, no?

[dichotomy]

There were no issues in our marriage or engagement to be married. It is my belief that

 

AP MM believed my wife simply was not the monograms kind and that while she was happy to marry me (a nice guy) she would always want to have some fun on the side with him both sexual and emotional. This is why he kept at her - he believed she was always going to be a mistress or have things on the side. It was not so much about me or the marriage but about her ability to be happy and thrive in a conventional marriage to anyone.

 

 

WS presented nothing but positive (mostly) view of me and marrying me but she did admit she missed parts of her past lifestyle and with him as she was about to settle down she was unsure. So she kept and emotional relationship a thread to him.

 

In my particular situation it really came down to not unhappiness with me but wether she was ready to settle down grow up and commit her full heart to one man. Wether WS could truly be happy in this - and AP and one or two others had this disbelief about WS as well. Sometimes I do as well worry about this to this day - maybe monogamy and marriage is not for her.

 

 

Not sure if this helps with the point of this thread.

Edited November 19, 2013 by dichotomy

[Owl]

My FWS was one depressed, complaining, miserable person briefly, and had distanced so many loving relationships.

 

We begged him to get counseling, meds, whatever it took to become whole and happy, especially with us.

 

Because we both loved and empathized with him, we alternated between trying too hard, or placing less demands upon him. Big mistake.

 

When he finally started to turn a corner, he crashed into her. She knew nothing of his personal failures and so he was allowed to reinvent himself in her adoring eyes and paint himself as one , true, bonafide hero sooo unappreciated.

 

Of course I and our kids were blamed. He didn't yet have the courage to see how his own actions led to how miserable he was.

 

In therapy he learned that it wasn't how little he was receiving from the marriage that was the source of his pain; it was how little he was giving to it, us, and all other interpersonal relationships.

 

Rings true, no?

 

OMG...this post resonates with me like nothing I've read on here in a long, long time.

 

This is a very accurate description of exactly what happened in my own situation. This describes my wife exactly leading up to, during, and after her EA. And it describes precisely what I did as well.

 

I could have written this post word for word.

[rumbleseat]

Assuming that a married person who cheats in an unhappy person is not that far fetched.

 

Assuming that it's the marriage that is making them unhappy is a much bigger problem.

 

People become unhappy for all sorts of reasons, and many times, it has zero to do with their spouse or marriage ( although they end up being cast in the role of 'villian", as people seem to have a need to blame there ephermerial issues on something/someone, and the spouse is an easy target)

[AlwaysGrowing]

The most important relationship is the one that we have with ourselves. If that is not healthy, there is no way you can have a healthy relationship with ANYONE.

 

As witnesses here, there are even WS that would view someone else's affair as a big WTF. There are WS that did not self-advocate strongly enough (not meaning communication/therapy) and make the choice to divorce because the marriage truly was unsustainable, and they paid a horrific personal price.

 

The scenario that Spark describes happens often in the slippery slope affairs. They didn't go looking to have a "need" that wasn't available inside the marriage met. Their relationship with themselves and how they interact with those closest is where the dysfunction lied. In those situations, often in therapy, there is no need for MC, only IC.

[carhill]

I have repeatedly witnessed over the years, and of late here, that there appears to be some discrepancy over which is the latter/former of the WS's 'unhappiness'. and the assumption that this person MUST be in an 'unhappy' marriage at the time of indulging in an affair.

 

I've seen a marked commonality amongst MW's in that, uniformly, I've yet to meet one describing herself being in a happy and fulfilling marriage who has had an affair. Uniformly, they describe their M's as unhappy. Unsurprisingly, the ones I've known where I also know their H and/or interact with them socially seem to put forth a completely different impression in public so, at some level, they prefer to project the appearance of a happy marriage regardless of how they would describe it.

 

Generalities exist which tend to separate the genders on this issue, specifically that a man can be in a happy marriage and still cheat/be unfaithful but, as an outlier, I can't find a strong reason to debate in favor of the generalities. In the cases of my male friends, they divorced when they were unhappy. So far, none have stated or alluded to affairs in a happy marriage. Of course, it's impossible to know with any certainty what's in a person's mind, so the debate continues.

[Got it]

Absolutely. My mother has always battled depression so I grew up understanding someone that is a "glass half full" person. My ex husband was the same; he was never happy. But he wouldn't do anything to be happy either. This was a major issue for us as he refused counseling, changing jobs, etc. to try and be happy.

 

I don't tend to be unhappy and actually am a little . . . . twitchy about too much "Eeyore" like behavior. So I know with my AP I really tried to dig into whether what he said seemed correct, was it him, situational, etc. as I knew that people that tend to be perpetually unhappy also tend to not make changes to help the issue. So giving up on the relationship was a long process for me and a hard one.

[Realist3]

Assuming that a married person who cheats in an unhappy person is not that far fetched.

 

Assuming that it's the marriage that is making them unhappy is a much bigger problem.

 

 

Interesting topic indeed. I was about to write a novel on this thread until I saw this post, and I think brevity would serve the same purpose just without the detail.

 

My marriage never been what I would describe as unhappy, but I can't say it is necessarily happy either. It is just kind of there.

 

I'm a very happy person. And while I can't say this 'blah' of a marriage made me unhappy, it left me wanting more. More that I knew was out there. So while I did check out emotionally, I was still a happy person. When I happened upon someone wanting to give me that 'more' I was wanting, it was not a difficult decision to make.

[experiencethedevine]

My FWS was one depressed, complaining, miserable person briefly, and had distanced so many loving relationships.

 

We begged him to get counseling, meds, whatever it took to become whole and happy, especially with us.

 

Because we both loved and empathized with him, we alternated between trying too hard, or placing less demands upon him. Big mistake.

 

When he finally started to turn a corner, he crashed into her. She knew nothing of his personal failures and so he was allowed to reinvent himself in her adoring eyes and paint himself as one , true, bonafide hero sooo unappreciated.

 

Of course I and our kids were blamed. He didn't yet have the courage to see how his own actions led to how miserable he was.

 

In therapy he learned that it wasn't how little he was receiving from the marriage that was the source of his pain; it was how little he was giving to it, us, and all other interpersonal relationships.

 

Rings true, no?

 

It most certainly does. Marriage is the ultimate partnership, and as such means that giving and receiving within it should be 'equal'.

 

When one hears the adage that marriage is hard work, it is because it takes continued effort to invest wisely and generously in it.

[experiencethedevine]

I've seen a marked commonality amongst MW's in that, uniformly, I've yet to meet one describing herself being in a happy and fulfilling marriage who has had an affair. Uniformly, they describe their M's as unhappy. Unsurprisingly, the ones I've known where I also know their H and/or interact with them socially seem to put forth a completely different impression in public so, at some level, they prefer to project the appearance of a happy marriage regardless of how they would describe it.

 

Generalities exist which tend to separate the genders on this issue, specifically that a man can be in a happy marriage and still cheat/be unfaithful but, as an outlier, I can't find a strong reason to debate in favor of the generalities. In the cases of my male friends, they divorced when they were unhappy. So far, none have stated or alluded to affairs in a happy marriage. Of course, it's impossible to know with any certainty what's in a person's mind, so the debate continues.

 

Agreed in the majority.

 

Of course it is difficult to evaluate effectively because I doubt there are many who would admit that they cheated for the hell of it, and that they were otherwise happy in their marriages. That would indicate a narcissistic streak at the very least.

[janedoe67]

So basically, all of the other responents on this thread (who are all BS's) feel that the reason a person cheats is solely because of unhappiness within themselves, and, if the marriage IS by some fluke unhappy, the cheater probably made it that way.

 

I wish now I hadn't responded or hoped for....objectivity?

 

If only I had KNOWN all those nights that I was crying because the man who promised to cherish me wouldn't touch me or trying to figure out what to do since the money was gone an he STILL wasn't looking for a job that I was the problem......

 

Thanks for the illumination.

[experiencethedevine]

The only real frame of reference I have is my own. For me, it was not as simple as fitting into one cut and dried category. So I will describe all three:

 

Unhappy marriage - no physical intimacy, no affection, I aspired to be the quintessential loving submissive wife and he did not want to lead, he could not keep a job and didn't really want to HAVE to work full time, we had a terribe cycle of me expressing feeling, him dissecting what he thought was illogical about the feeling, me trying to plead my case, him poking holes, me just caving in to stop the hurt

 

Unhappy person - I was NOT always an unhappy person....but at the point where I cheated I felt ugly, unworthy, as if my value was dependent on how someone else viewed me, no longer seemed to have the tools to validate myself, was insecure, was hard and angry and resentful

 

third party - I am not sure he individually was a factor, except that not only was he male and found me attractive, he seemed interested in ME and seemed to validate my stance that my husband should be paying attention to me; it would be inaccurate to say he "lured" me or anything because I willingly crossed boundaries

 

I do not think that everyone who cheats is in a horrific, soul-sucking marraige. I do think that a WS tends to...embellish history.

 

BUT...I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a person with a truly fulfilling marriage who is truly emotionally healthy just deciding to cheat one day.

 

Then you experienced three crushing contradictions which must have been terribly difficult and confusing intermittently.

 

A husband who failed to return your efforts to create harmony and reciprocity and hurt your feelings with disregard of their value, which in turn created a feeling of being undervalued (unhappiness), and then a man who re-established your worthiness and desirability.

 

You must have been in a dreadful place.

 

As you rightly state, often the marital history is re-invented and embellished to suit the suitor.

[janedoe67]

Then you experienced three crushing contradictions which must have been terribly difficult and confusing intermittently.

 

A husband who failed to return your efforts to create harmony and reciprocity and hurt your feelings with disregard of their value, which in turn created a feeling of being undervalued (unhappiness), and then a man who re-established your worthiness and desirability.

 

You must have been in a dreadful place.

 

As you rightly state, often the marital history is re-invented and embellished to suit the suitor.

 

I was in a terrible place. The choice to react by cheating is still my responsibility. I did not HAVE to cheat. Sadly, however, if anything I downplay our history because I feel so bad about choosing to cheat.

 

I never thought I was unique - just a garden variety person who cruely ignored her values for a time. But I may BE an exception because even my BH will attest to the unhappiness of our marriage and his part in it.

[AlwaysGrowing]

So basically, all of the other responents on this thread (who are all BS's) feel that the reason a person cheats is solely because of unhappiness within themselves, and, if the marriage IS by some fluke unhappy, the cheater probably made it that way.

 

I wish now I hadn't responded or hoped for....objectivity?

 

If only I had KNOWN all those nights that I was crying because the man who promised to cherish me wouldn't touch me or trying to figure out what to do since the money was gone an he STILL wasn't looking for a job that I was the problem......

 

Thanks for the illumination.

 

 

I referenced a certain type of affairs, not all affairs.

 

Do I believe that some marriages make one vulnerable to having an affair? Yes. Do I believe that affairs happen in good marriages? Yes.

 

That is why, I firmly believe, that the relationship that we have with ourselves is the most important one we will ever have. That if we safe guard ourselves, from ourselves, we will be okay.....regardless...of what someone else does or does not do.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I was in a terrible place. The choice to react by cheating is still my responsibility. I did not HAVE to cheat. Sadly, however, if anything I downplay our history because I feel so bad about choosing to cheat.

 

I never thought I was unique - just a garden variety person who cruely ignored her values for a time. But I may BE an exception because even my BH will attest to the unhappiness of our marriage and his part in it.

 

 

The bolded part......if he believes that...and he still puts forth no/little effort. He has given an answer.

 

I know that you think...that it means you failed (or don't have the "right') if you are the one that files for divorce. It simply isn't true. It only means that you acted on his choices. You have every right to do so.

 

Jane, I am concerned for you. I am concerned that if you stay married under these conditions....that you will fall into the same pattern....one that clearly costs you so much internally. Do not sacrifice yourself anymore. Your affairs didn't cost you a healthy marriage...it cost you a healthy you. And that is unacceptable.

[janedoe67]

This may be O/T, but in response, Always, there is a part oh me - a self-loahhing part with a dash of cynicism - that wonders if sacrificing a "healthy me" is...justice?

[AlwaysGrowing]

This may be O/T, but in response, Always, there is a part oh me - a self-loahhing part with a dash of cynicism - that wonders if sacrificing a "healthy me" is...justice?

 

You already sacrificed yourself when you entered the first affair. You sacrificed yourself due to the unhealthy dynamics of the MARRIAGE. You need to stop doing that.

 

Pull your resources inward. Stop looking for your husband to fulfill or punish you. Start working with someone who does have your back...YOU.

 

Not all marriages should survive infidelity. There wasn't much there to begin with.

[cocorico]

My H was diagnosed with clinical depression resulting from the state of his previous M. So yes, unhappy M, unhappy man, although it took the advent of a third party for him to become willing to admit just how unhappy he was.

[MissBee]

As far as I am concerned:

 

If your marriage is unhappy --- fix it before dragging me into it. Thanks!

 

I get why it matters for an AP to know/believe the marriage is unhappy and I also get why in an A (or any R) it is easy for people to not be critical about the object of their affection and to either take things for granted as true or find it easier to displace negativity on to other people or circumstances instead of that person.

 

We all have circumstances that come up and it's really about how you choose to deal with it. No one has a happy life 24/7, so for me simply being unhappy in your R isn't some kind of novel free pass to do whatever. I want to see how you deal with that.

 

Also, coming from my own culture, I have witnessed time and again that cheating for many men is not at all dependent upon happiness in their R, that is a strange thing culturally and unlike on LS for example, which is largely reflective of North American culture, men do not often describe their cheating in terms of happiness. SOME might and yes some may be men cheating because they want out and don't know how, but for the most part, cheating is seen as a man's right, because monogamy isn't something they feel is natural for a man, even though they fake it. Many of them believe that they love their wives and it's also okay to pursue other attractions if she doesn't find out. They genuinely act like this is acceptable and genuinely still want to be in their marriages/LTRs (as many of them are not even married). So from being socialized around men like that, I have always believed that cheating does not at all need to have anything to do with the relationship or the other person doing anything wrong, but can very simply be a product of self-interest.

 

In my own A...my exAP NEVER once said he was unhappy in his R. I asked. He said he loved her and the relationship was a normal one with ups and downs. I was floored personally as even though we're from the same culture and I knew how many men felt about the subject, I of course thought he was different and that it HAD to be because he was unhappy, which made it more justifiable when it seems they are in some "desperate" situation...but he was very matter of fact about it that he wasn't unhappy. So for me personally I realize humans are complex and simply being unhappy with your M is not the ONLY reason for cheating, so I am not gonna assume that to be the case by default. In fact, my first line of query will be to wonder about you and what's up with your own coping skills etc.

Edited November 20, 2013 by MissBee

[Got it]

I think it comes down to the different reasons on why someone is having an affair.

 

But in regards to the title, some people are unhappy because of situational reasons, some because they are just unhappy by nature. So it is really doing to depend.

 

Having had people in my life who are just not happy people, the trend is unhappiness/discontent in many areas of their lives, they are the common theme.

 

I strive to find silver linings no matter what life throws at me and happiness where I can find it. It is a choice to look at things half full or half empty and it is up to the person on how they want to view things. Life isn't always easy, and I have had my struggles, but I have full faith that I have the ability to always turn things around. I make things happen!

[rumbleseat]

So basically, all of the other responents on this thread (who are all BS's) feel that the reason a person cheats is solely because of unhappiness within themselves, and, if the marriage IS by some fluke unhappy, the cheater probably made it that way.

 

I wish now I hadn't responded or hoped for....objectivity?

 

If only I had KNOWN all those nights that I was crying because the man who promised to cherish me wouldn't touch me or trying to figure out what to do since the money was gone an he STILL wasn't looking for a job that I was the problem......

 

Thanks for the illumination.

 

 

All people are doing is speaking to their own situations or situations that they have heard of or have personal experience with ( a friend, colleague, relative etc.) .

No one is discounting your experience or saying that your analysis of the truth of it is wrong, so why the sarcasm? Are you denying the truth of their experiences? Maybe for them, the unhappiness really wasn't in the marriage.