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Would You Ever Have A Serious Relationship With A Former WW/WH?


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aliveagain

I had some male friends over for a BBQ this past weekend, the topic of relationships came up. One of them was asked if he would ever have a serious relationship with someone that cheated on a former spouse, he said no, we all agreed that none of us would if they were married to the BS or in a exclusive long term relationship with them. Once a cheater always a cheater? What do others think, all opinions welcome.

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BeholdtheMan
Once a cheater always a cheater?

I'm not silly enough to think "once a cheater, always a cheater" is a literal truth. There are no absolute truths when the subject is human behaviour. Of course it's possible for someone to cheat once and never do it again.

 

"Once a cheater, always a cheater" is a principle to live by. I live by it. If you cheat on me once, it's over. You don't get the benefit of the doubt. If you're honest enough to confess, you'll still have my respect but not my trust. I'll be moving on thank you

 

If I know someone has cheated in the past, the same principle applies. It would be silly if I grant an exception purely because the victim of the cheating is not me. I wouldn't consider a serious relationship with a known cheater. I'll try my luck somewhere else. It's a matter of principle.

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Bittersweetie

If I was ever single again, I would be upfront with any future partners about what I did. Maybe not on the first date, but in the beginning. I would share what I did and why and what has changed for me that would prevent me from making that choice again. I would do this because I now value honesty and openness in relationships and that will carry forward to all relationships. However I realize that, as some have stated above, this is a dealbreaker for some. If this potential partner decided not to pursue a relationship with me, I'd be upset but would understand. But I would also hope that my current actions and introspection would be considered over my past.

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I didn't think that of my H when we first got together. He was honest about his infidelity during his first marriage and managed to convince me that he loved only me and was ready for monogamy. I appreciated his honesty at the time and believed him. I had no reason not to.

 

FF 10 years later and this is not the case as we are 7 months since D-Day. My H was remorseful, there has been no contact and his attention has been solely on me. We are working on being better for each other. We often have conversations about it and my H always cries and tells me how terrible he feels. He says that no matter how many years go by he will have this mark on his heart and knowing how much he hurt me makes him sad. I am sure one day we will get to a better place within our marriage, obviously it's not today.

 

No one really knows what will or will not happen in their relationships. I don't think it's fair to pass judgments unless you experience the red flags from early on.

 

Life is a gamble. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Nothing can prepare you. These events only make you stronger.

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I absolutely would never start a new relationship with a past cheater.

 

This is the biggest source of doubt for me now while trying to R. I struggle a lot with who my H really is. Now he is that person that I would never choose for me. Yet I am trying to save our marriage and stay together.

 

Everything about the A is horrendous. The sex acts, the lies, the deception, confiding in another, the lack of respect for me, lack of caring for our family, downright disregard for our children's well being, etc. A good person doesn't do those things.

 

So even if H regrets it. Even if it happened when he was having a terrible time personally, even if it was the biggest regret of his life, is he THAT man????

Can I spend my life with that man? Should I? It is way beyond forgiveness.

I have forgiven him. But he will never be who I thought he was. Yes, we all make mistakes. But do some mistakes define who you are?

 

BS who are trying to R are in a very difficult place. There are so many ways to look at everything. Beautiful house, stable family, happy secure kids, loving dad (today), committed parents who love each other. Is that enough? When I am awake and thinking positive I think of course it is. It is more than many families have. When I lie awake at night I fret about who the man lying beside me really is.

 

Sorry - pretty off topic :). I started by saying I would never marry a cheater. Last July H and I renewed our vows on a beach in Jamaica. Just one step in R.

I guess I would marry a cheater.

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I absolutely would never start a new relationship with a past cheater.

 

This is the biggest source of doubt for me now while trying to R. I struggle a lot with who my H really is. Now he is that person that I would never choose for me. Yet I am trying to save our marriage and stay together.

 

Everything about the A is horrendous. The sex acts, the lies, the deception, confiding in another, the lack of respect for me, lack of caring for our family, downright disregard for our children's well being, etc. A good person doesn't do those things.

 

So even if H regrets it. Even if it happened when he was having a terrible time personally, even if it was the biggest regret of his life, is he THAT man????

Can I spend my life with that man? Should I? It is way beyond forgiveness.

I have forgiven him. But he will never be who I thought he was. Yes, we all make mistakes. But do some mistakes define who you are?

 

BS who are trying to R are in a very difficult place. There are so many ways to look at everything. Beautiful house, stable family, happy secure kids, loving dad (today), committed parents who love each other. Is that enough? When I am awake and thinking positive I think of course it is. It is more than many families have. When I lie awake at night I fret about who the man lying beside me really is.

 

Sorry - pretty off topic :). I started by saying I would never marry a cheater. Last July H and I renewed our vows on a beach in Jamaica. Just one step in R.

I guess I would marry a cheater.

 

Yes our H made bad choices. I don't think that defines them. What defines them is the response. They could have chosen a life of lust and fantasy that would have eventually fizzled out.

 

This is what happened with my first H. He hasn't changed his ways unfortunetly. I feel this event brought us closer. it obviously helped you as we'll as you renewed your vows. I am sure we will as well. A celebration of our renewed love and commitment.

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smoky eyes

Hmmm, I cheated in a past relationship, but I haven't done it in the intervening 5 years and I certainly never wish to do it again. I was never caught, but the stress, the insecurity, and the finally losing respect both for my lover and myself made something I'm ruling out in future relationships.

 

My current partner and I were both upfront when we got together that some of our past behaviour with other partners had been kind of scummy. Neither of us had enjoyed it or were proud of it, and both of us want to not be that person from now on. Obviously, I don't know if we'll feel the same in 20 years, but the intention and wish to behave well are certainly there -- and contexualized by experience, for what it's worth.

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NotCamelot

I won't really answer the OPs question. I will say this. None of us really know what we will do in a situation until and if the time comes.

 

Human emotion is one of the strongest forces on the planet and it will make us do things we never thought we would or never thought possible. Whether it is getting involved with a former cheater, reconciling with a cheating spouse, cheating on a spouse, etc. So, when asked this kind of question, I don't think anyone can truthfully say yes or no.

 

If we have lived long enough, we all have done something we said we'd never do.

 

Been there. There are scars on my heart to prove it.

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Having gone what I have gone through, and still going through, I can say with 110% certainty that I will NEVER date someone who has went outside their relationship for external validation.

 

That may be a very broad sweep, but even if I do meet someone I click with, if they've had those past experiences, I'm no longer interested.

 

My STBX told me about all her previous affairs before I married her, but informed me she had changed, learned and had grown from those mistakes. LAWLZ. All lies.

 

I'm not saying once a cheater, always a cheater, but you have to question the moral compass of people who do that in the first place.

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I'm not saying once a cheater, always a cheater, but you have to question the moral compass of people who do that in the first place.

 

I guess that exceptions only confirms the rule. :p

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Well, besides my husband- NO

I am obviously in a relationship with a cheater since we have decided to reconcile-BUT

At one point, I thought, maybe it would be nice to be in a relationship that was not tainted and my number one no-no was: Cheaters-

Cheaters need not apply

 

Interestingly enough, when I asked my husband if we did not work out would he go back to our OW, he said very quickly-no way, she can not be trusted-she is a loose woman- so what he values in a long term partner was not what he valued in himself or in a little side ego boost-very odd to have these conversations-

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NotCamelot
If I were ever single again, it would depend upon the person.

 

I would ask them why they had cheated, and if their answers showed self insight and an actual understanding of the fact that they cheated because they decided to, I might consider them to be a a possible dating prospect...at least the were being honest with me about their past and not pretending

 

 

If they blamed their wife for their cheating, if they painted her as some sort of monster, that they had not choice, I wouldn't date them...they aren't honest...

yes, there may be some horrible wives/husband out there, but in my experience, they are few and far between, and there is usually a lot of exaggeration when they are painted as such. When you finally get to the truth, it's not usually what is portrayed by those in an affair. If the person who cheated was still doing this, I couldn't trust them.

 

the same holds true for a former other man....unless he had some insight into his behavior of why he had gotten involved with a married person, I couldn't trust him. If he took accountability for his actions, didn't blame them on the married woman or her "evil" husband, and actually had a bit of self awareness...I'd consider them as a dating prospect

 

anything else, form my point of view, would be delusional...and I don't want to date someone who's delusional :laugh:

 

In playing Devil's Advocate: How do you know what the Cheater or Cheater's Helper is telling you is the truth......? Will you ask the Spouse/former Spouse/former AP?

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aliveagain

Bittersweetie, Smokyeyes, I appreciate your honesty, that's one attribute I look for when considering a relationship. What have you done to find out your why's that allowed you to justify what you did? Have your boundary's changed? Would you be willing to sign a postnuptial agreement if they asked you for one or would you find that request offensive?

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^

 

That raises a very interesting point that I was pondering this morning while have my tea.

 

This question is going to everyone threadwide by the way:

 

Would you be insulted, if going into your second marriage, if your partner asked for a pre-nuptual with an infidelity clause?

 

I'm honestly considering this if I ever remarry, as I would want it clearly spelled out that if you partake in an adulterous relationship you're going to immediately forfeit the following:

 

The house, and any and all rights to my pension, benefits, insurance discounts, time sharing and all rights and priviledges associated with my career path. After which, you will vacate the premise of the house within 72 hours.

 

The terms of adultery include the following:

 

Any and all emotional and physical contact, that breaches the sanctity of the marriage. Sexual contact is forbidden outside the marriage, as well as emotional affairs. Sexting and other internet based affairs are also grounds to enforce the Pre-nuptual agreement.

 

 

Does the above hold any water?

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If I were single again - I would probably not become involved with someone who had an affair, or was WW or OW - unless I saw extreme regret, deep introspection and growth about it. Thats my belief system.

 

It is complicated long story, but my current wife, lied and hid much from me, including that, while single/divorced, she was physically/emotionally involved with a married man (she was single OW). She also continued some sort of emotional relationship and connection with the one MG, including letting me hang out with him, until shortly after we were married. It all spilled out then, and NC was implemented.

 

I don't know if I would have immediately stopped the relationship/engagement if I had known before hand - but I sure would have insisted on expanded premarital counseling which probably would have resulted in my church not marrying us unless she had a change of heart/view on her choices back then. Instead, we have had many many post marriage couples therapy sessions, to work on this issue (honesty, regret, commitment, etc). Things have improved, but are still a work in progress.

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NotCamelot
I look at it this way...

 

if someone said to me " I cheated on my wife. Things had gotten kids of stale betwene us, and I met ms.X and we kind of hit it off. I thought " what the hell" and asked her out. We started sleeping togther and it went on from there"

 

versus:

 

" My ex wife was a horrible person. All she did is drink all the time, sit around the house and b@tch all day. Nothing I did was right. I worked all day while she just sat on her fat @ss and did nothing. She was a witch. The one day I met ms. x and she was so nice. Before i knew what was happening, we were sleeping together. I know iut was worng, but my wife , on some level, knew and since she didn;t say anything, she must have been okay with it"

 

( of course, no one would ever use those words, but you get the gist of it...)

 

The first one shows some self awareness and ability to take responsibility for his actions...the second shows none of that....I wouldn't waste my time trying to see if his story was true or not....there are lots of guys out there, and I'm sure i could find one who didn't view cheating as acceptable

 

I don't think you/we would ever hear someone say that first one. And the second story; well, someone may get close to that, but if they put it that way you know to run.

 

I think that if you knew they cheated you'd get a story somewhere in between those two. Already being a cheater, they are predisposed to "self-protect". And will probably do the same when trying to explain their past behaviour.

 

I am sure there would be a rare one that will come clean with everything, but I think most would not.

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lilmisscantbewrong

If my marriage did not survive, I'm not sure I want to be in a relationship again for a very long time.:)

 

But, if I were and it started to get serious, I would be completely honest with what I had been through. Although since my affair was extremely public, I would imagine it would already be something that the other person would know. After all, a sermon was written and my name was read and it was put online on the pastor's blog - so yeah, it's out there.

 

But, back on topic, I would definitely disclose all of that. I think it would be extremely important. I would try (and I always do in discussing it now) to tell it objectively, but in the end it's always going to be from my perspective. No matter how we tell something (even if it's from the BS's side) it will always be from YOUR perspective and if it's your perspective then it's your reality.

 

My grandfather always used to tell me there were three sides to every story - his, hers and the truth - (this is when my parents were going through their divorce. You know what? He was right.

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Bittersweetie
Bittersweetie, Smokyeyes, I appreciate your honesty, that's one attribute I look for when considering a relationship. What have you done to find out your why's that allowed you to justify what you did? Have your boundary's changed? Would you be willing to sign a postnuptial agreement if they asked you for one or would you find that request offensive?

 

I've done a lot of counseling and personal introspection to determine my own whys. I've learned to address my issues in healthier ways and resolved other issues as well. I've done a lot of reading on infidelity and am now well aware of my personal boundaries. I've also spent a few years on these boards where I have read many painful stories of both BS and WS and OW which have contributed to my vow to not get involved in an A again.

 

Though in reality this discussion is moot since I am perfectly happy with my H! I can't imagine a more amazing man than him.

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smoky eyes
Bittersweetie, Smokyeyes, I appreciate your honesty, that's one attribute I look for when considering a relationship. What have you done to find out your why's that allowed you to justify what you did? Have your boundary's changed? Would you be willing to sign a postnuptial agreement if they asked you for one or would you find that request offensive?

 

In my case (and my current partners) we're late 20s/early 30s and current culture kind of dictates some scumminess on some level in these age groups. I feel like we both got it out of our systems/were with people we shouldn't have been with because we didn't know any better at that age. Not excusing, just saying that now, I feel more inclined to be extra picky in my choice of partner, and put more of myself on the line.

 

As for a pre-nup... I don't know. Maybe. I don't think it's unfair, but I don't think it's very common in my culture either.

 

I know that having been "bad" myself when younger, I didn't bat an eyelid when my partner told me about his past infidelities. I honestly don't think most people enjoy infidelity that much, and would rather be happy with someone they love. I could be wrong, I suppose.

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aliveagain

LFH, I would expect anything that you have to hide from your spouse that has nothing to do with a surprise birthday party or Christmas gift might fall under that category. A full on emotional affair or physical affair absolutely. When you consider moving forward into an exclusive relationship, history is important. One of your best predictors of your future with this person is to look at her/his past history in other relationships. Words are easy to say, specially from someone with a personality disorder, they seem to be the most amazing salespeople on selling you on themselves. Hard to break old habits if the work hasn't been done. So how do you believe someone who has proven they can lie, they have in the past taken the opportunity when they thought they could get away with it to cheat, and act like nothing happened and would have taken the secret to their grave? Would most people see this as a red flag?

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Jenn.Smith

I agree with everyone who says it depends. I do not believe once a cheater always a cheater. It is like saying once a thief always a theid. Situations can vary so greatly.

 

As to the prenup i think some of those things would be hard to stick. Like an emotional affair. Sexting and actual sex are concrete things that don't vary by opinion. So... Im not sure how good the other stipulations would be.

 

Marriage is always a gamble. If you married a truly remorseful former ws you may have a better chance than f you married someone who then first time cheated on you.

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I'd absolutely sign that. I'd certainly not be insulted if someone asked for that, especially if I understood why they were asking for that. (ie: previous relationship ended because of adultery)

Your verbage in terms of what adultery is is too vague for my liking though. Make it 7 or 8 paragraphs if you need to. Spell out EVERYTHING.

Is porn ok? Are lunch dates with ex's ok if you know about? if not? What counts as full disclosure? What kind of interactions "non-sexual" do you consider crossing the line.

Really... spell it all out.

 

Of course that would be a very rough, vague idea.

 

If I ever do decide to get married again, I'll have an actual Lawyer draft up on terms and conditions of signing the prenuptial agreement.

 

Things such as contact with ex's is not koshur, unless of course there are children involved where contact cannot be avoided. There would also be an sexual exclusivity (which would encompass both emotional sexuality and physical sexuality) clause.

 

Mind you, I do not believe many woman within my age bracket would even fathom signing something like this.

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aliveagain

Jenn.Smith, Had I not had to deal with an affair child I might be a little more flexible. I would never wish that on anyone, BS or WS, it is totally devastating because the child is for life and so is the affair partner, as the father he has rights to the child so he will always be around.

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Of course that would be a very rough, vague idea.

 

If I ever do decide to get married again, I'll have an actual Lawyer draft up on terms and conditions of signing the prenuptial agreement.

 

Things such as contact with ex's is not koshur, unless of course there are children involved where contact cannot be avoided. There would also be an sexual exclusivity (which would encompass both emotional sexuality and physical sexuality) clause.

 

Mind you, I do not believe many woman within my age bracket would even fathom signing something like this.

 

Really? I am surprised. It may have to do with their income levels. I would and have signed a pre-nup for financial reasons but would not be oppose to other clauses as well. I think it is smart, logical, and just plain good business to hammer out all of these topics and making sure everything is disclosed before getting married. Getting married isn't all sunshine, flowers and tulle and people do need to be aware of what happens during the rest of the days and what their boundaries, needs, and expectations are going to be.

 

I think asking for a pre-nup is just a smart idea even outside of the context of whether or not the person has cheated before. I think discussion of a pre-nup really tells you whether someone is in it for you or for what you can provide them.

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To answer the original question, no. Although I do think people can change if they are motivated enough, and they may not go on to repeat that mistake, I would have lost respect for that person if I knew they had cheated on their spouse, and for that reason I would not want a serious romantic relationship with them.

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