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Old 7th September 2018, 11:19 PM   #46
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While I in no way suggest that you should adopt - you're absolutely right, if that's something you feel is not for you, that's an entirely valid feeling.

However, I think minimariah didn't mean to suggest that you should just forgo having biological children, she was simply mentioning it as an alternative if by any chance you end up not being able to concieve.

Again if it's not for you, it's not for you, that perfectly fine.

But I do want to mention something from your post that caught my eye - I hope you're not romanticizing giving birth a little too much. To be honest, many mothers do not feel that natural, instant bond with their baby as soon as it comes out of them. Births can be difficult, they can feel exhausted, overwhelmed and not to mention that taking care of a newborn is incredibly difficult and often isolating. Many women experience PPD in some form, or at least "baby blues" from when their pregnancy hormones go down.

I have to tell you, my bond with my daughter grew by me taking care of her - feeding her, playing with her, cuddling her, staying up with her. And when I look at the bond we have now and the bond I had with her as a newborn and baby? It's so much stronger now.

So I wouldn't say that only mothers who give birth have a true visceral bond with their baby. There are many examples of birth mothers who are barely mothers at all.

Of course, this is not a post to convince you to adopt a child instead of having your own. Just my own two cents on the whole subject.

I truly wish you the best of luck with trying to concieve and having a baby!

Oh I was not referring to the feeling having to be immediately post birth.

I appreciate you sharing your story and yes, I know plenty of women who didn't fall in love instantly and who bypassed the much romanticised birth phase of extreme euphoria. I tend to think it is a mixed bag - as much as a 50/50 split between women who fall in the so called " indescribable love" instantly, versus the other half who take time. It is the love in general I am referring to. Not how soon it is detected, as I know childbirth is often traumatic and my friends have told me that they were SO traumatised by wtf just happened that they did not love their babies right away and hated themselves for it. I know better, as it is perfectly natural to take months or even a year or more to bond with a child. I digress, it tends to happen within the first few months from the women I have spoken to but many women never get that overwhelming lovey dovey magic pill drug induced dizzying love at any given point (yet still very well LOVE their children dearly).

And that is ALL okay by me. I just want a healthy, happy child that came from me and my partner. My road to exactly HOW I fall in love with it is a non factor to me as are my current finances.....

This thread is about finances so let me relate this to the drive and motivations of adopting; I would not adopt if someone PAID me to do it and guaranteed me the cutest, squishiest infant that even had genes similar to mine! Let alone pursue it at my OWN cost! Where as my instinct tells without a second thought, that giving up passions in lifelike overseas travel and dog rescue - is just a no brainer, something I would do for the privilege of having my own child.

You know adoption is for you when you would feel DESPERATE to pay 10s of 1000s for just the OPPORTUNITY (no likely guarantees) of getting to raise any child (and are not at all phased if the child is severely disabled and you then need to dedicate your life's income to caring for bed bound child). You know you need to experience motherhood at all costs above all else in life, when you pay 100k on IVF and then move to adoption - some women truly do NEED to be mums at all costs. I am not one of those women who is infertile yet NEEDS to be a mum, at ANY cost (financially and mentally).

I just feel like I am meant to be a birth mother. Plain and simple really. It is the same feeling I got surrounding my podiatry degree -After a decade of failed attempts at various degrees and jobs, my good friend was studying it, and a couple of years after we met, it just felt like podiatry was also meant to be. It just felt right for me and after recently practising injecting local anaesthetic recently, which we do for toenail surgery, and after passing bio mechanics and advanced anatomy exams with flying colours - I could not want any other career more than the one that just fits in with me so well! Becoming an anatomy expert is along the lines with which I would live with the most integrity and authenticity despite anatomy taking years to truly learn at the top of our heads/off by heart. I will be pursuing pilates too later on before I open a clinic too.

Following the path of least resistance is a great feeling, and something I previously struggled with for for my entire life.Trying to be someone I am not, and trying to aim to do certain things, and be a certain way just wasn't fulfilling to me.

While you couldn't eve pay me to adopt a healthy child, I would gladly give up luxuries and my passion of overseas travel for the ability to have a healthy child. , It is how I felt when I met my partner. Sometimes, you just know you are motivated and excited to pursue a certain avenue. While other men who are frankly nicer people than my partner and better in many ways - just did not resonate with me. I picked the option I actually wanted to pursue without having to think or justify to myself, or others.

Finances are a big deal. And I know what I would like to dedicate my hard work in my future job towards; copious travel, helping abandoned dogs and young PCOS sufferers. This is if I cannot conceive and carry at any stage of my life, and to a lesser extent, things I will always be passionate about even with children (when I say "lesser", I mean that I will have less funds to dedicate towards those other things I want to do in my lifetime but will still of course, try to afford things besides just child rearing).

Plus with no savings - even if I wanted to adopt...... Which my partner and I have 0 passion for: we sort of need a FREE baby lol that is conceived for free -given our ages and current financial trajectory (it will take a decade to be truly comfortable, and five years to get a house of our own).... we are not in a position to provide more than the very basics at this stage in our life (which will change) so we would be nearing 40 by the time we could afford to just dispense 25K once or twice in the hope that we "might" me placed with a child, which never happens in Australia because no one gives away their babies here - you can be homeless, broke, and on welfare and the welfare payments are enough to feed both mother, baby and provide a room in which they can live/rent. So there is no impetus from mothers to give up a baby here in our country.

Financial stuff can be worked out when it comes to raising a family.... I would have an enormous drive to provide and superhuman resolve just thinking about my own child.... Second best just wouldn't do, I would NEED to work hard for their sake and would derive enormous pleasure and immense personal satisfaction from working hard in order for my finances to support a comfortable healthy and safe lifestyle, where braces and tutoring and a safe second had first car - are available (so many mates of mine never learnt to drive so learning early is key as it does take many people years of driving to be safe and competent).

The adoption question has actually made me think about the power of working hard towards what you want.. I remember women in support groups telling me how much agony they went through over a two decade long period JUST to adopt a disabled child who then requires years of care.... they then had 0 money leftover because they rented their entire lives just to afford to dedicate their entire being towards obtaining a child at whichever costs. Often, their bodies are permanently altered after 10 rounds or IVF too and/or recurrent miscarriage and the resulting D and Cs they had 20 to 30 times (not even kidding)..

BUT - for them, the pain of decades of infertility was SO WORTH all the financial strain. It was 100% worth them giving up the dream of ever owning a home, ever travelling out of their country and ever having savings for rainy days. Thanks to the poster who asked about adoption. I am sure she was not intending to guilt me into why don't I just adopt, and it has proven a point: women who want children by either means - adoption or surrogate or naturally - will just make it work, even if they are rendered dirt poor by the process!

I clearly do not want to be a mother as much as these couples who go to great lengths to achieve their goal of motherhood and throw all caution to the wind in terms of finances in order to achieve their dreams of motherhood.
I just have the drive and instinct that it is the right path for me, will be devastated if my reproductive abilities never come to fruition and will then grieve a loss and move on with my life.

And that is how you know adoption is right for you - you would risk anything and pay any amount of money you have for it to eventuate in holding an actual child.

I think it is truly remarkable the financial strain couples are happy to undergo for the sake of having a child. Money talks, and I am obviously NOT as desperate to be a parents as many others are, who would undergo a lot more just to get a child than me or my partner would.

I hope that clarifies and puts into perspective my viewpoint regarding finances and how adoption simply does not fit into our financial goals. Where as starting poor and making it work at my age is a no brainer for us.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:30 PM   #47
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While I in no way suggest that you should adopt - you're absolutely right, if that's something you feel is not for you, that's an entirely valid feeling.

However, I think minimariah didn't mean to suggest that you should just forgo having biological children, she was simply mentioning it as an alternative if by any chance you end up not being able to concieve.

Again if it's not for you, it's not for you, that perfectly fine.

But I do want to mention something from your post that caught my eye - I hope you're not romanticizing giving birth a little too much. To be honest, many mothers do not feel that natural, instant bond with their baby as soon as it comes out of them. Births can be difficult, they can feel exhausted, overwhelmed and not to mention that taking care of a newborn is incredibly difficult and often isolating. Many women experience PPD in some form, or at least "baby blues" from when their pregnancy hormones go down.

I have to tell you, my bond with my daughter grew by me taking care of her - feeding her, playing with her, cuddling her, staying up with her. And when I look at the bond we have now and the bond I had with her as a newborn and baby? It's so much stronger now.

So I wouldn't say that only mothers who give birth have a true visceral bond with their baby. There are many examples of birth mothers who are barely mothers at all.

Of course, this is not a post to convince you to adopt a child instead of having your own. Just my own two cents on the whole subject.

I truly wish you the best of luck with trying to concieve and having a baby!

Oh - and many thanks for the well wishes

I have 28 day normal cycles with natural therapies, so I am pretty sure that, if PCOS is the only issue we have, we are very likely to conceive. I believe timing is everything, so I think in the next 2 years we will conceive.

We are in a tiny house (albeit in a very nice area, the place we most want to buy our first house) with 4 animals, no savings and no material things (all crappy second hand stained couches, not comfortable blankets) but I am oddly un phased; I still would love kids at any time. There is no question whether we would progress and make it work in the end. While many women in our position couldn't fathom having kids in this set of circumstances.

I do wonder how many childless couples regret putting it off due to money. No one in their death bed says "if only I worked harder and earned more money"

Where as I believe plenty of women regret never having children when they were able to.
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Old 16th September 2018, 5:22 AM   #48
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Hi OP. xH and I were 24 and 21 respectively when we married - recent graduates both. After two years of marriage I initiated the baby talk, and hey presto one month later we were pregnant!

We were still establishing our careers and our plans for life in general. No assets, no real financial plan... just winging it really. And then we had our daughter. TBH having her MADE us adult, and she was... is... so worth it!

We bought our first house when she was two, and took her on our first overseas family adventure shortly thereafter. First investment property when she was five, multiple more adventures, and so on... it was up every step of the way.

From what I can tell, you and your other half are positioning yourselves for future success through career and study choices now. A child won't necessarily stop you from following through on your goals. In fact, kids can be an impetus for ensuring success because they can make you strive harder for them.

Before I had my daughter I wanted a big family - dreams of a touch football team. But about year after having her I starting experiencing debilitating period pain - as in vomit inducing curl up in the foetal position paralysing pain. I eventually had a diagnosis of endometriosis. An exploratory confirmed it as stage V - riddled. I had it burnt out and one ovary removed due to a mans fist sized chocolate cyst. And then a hysterectomy.

If we'd have waited one more year... well, we'd have had no child at all.

My advice since to family or friends who have raised the issue is to have kids when you feel ready to have them, to love them, and to do right by them. All other goals - financial, career, etc - fade in comparison to that one. The others will fall into place when you've got the basics down.
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Old 18th September 2018, 11:05 PM   #49
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well, my fiance just finally got his dream job: 4000 a week some weeks, 1500 at the very least basically.

He has battled to hard for this and taken big risks by turning down jobs he believed he was worth more than given his training and age.

So after a few months of this, we are aiming to move infertility treatments forward to the Aussie summer break

Needing help to get pregnant makes me really sad, but I do not feel it will cost too many thousands or take too many years for the specialist to find something that works for me.

Rather than infertility making me think twice about finances and whether we CAN afford kids - it has actually had the opposite effect - you just have no idea of the anguish and pain associated with being infertile and not being able to have a family like eve drug addicts and totally unhealthy people are able to.

Infertility made me think wow well screw money, we really better get this kid thing underway ASAP. Now that I have had a very real taste of what it feels like to be involuntary childless, it has only made me totally disregard money.

And most of all - my inability to conceive has made me realise how badly I do want a family, and that money while we do aim to have a good life - is secondary and can be put on hold

Having the child hinges on my ability to start ASAP, as it could take years of infertility treatment cycles (although I do not believe it would take more than a year or so, gut feeling).

Again - I am NOT saying being broke is any great way to raise a child - I am ONLY specifically inferring to our first five years being in a rental/saving for a house. ALL the other needs would be met 100% as it stands, we just have 0 savings and need 5 years to purchase a home.

Wish us luck, our aim is by next year to hopefully be pregnant. Even with no house and the possibility or moving 10000 times a year.

The lifelong tragedy for me of never having a child would weigh so much more heavily on my shoulders, than being broke in my 30s temporarily ever, ever would.

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Old 18th September 2018, 11:10 PM   #50
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Wish us luck, our aim is by next year to hopefully be pregnant.
Be careful what you wish for. Twins!!! Mr. Lucky
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Old 18th September 2018, 11:50 PM   #51
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Be careful what you wish for. Twins!!! Mr. Lucky
I actually think I will be getting my ovaries drilled - which avoids multiples in woman with PCOS....

I get 28 day cycles and my body is healthy, but my friend with mhy exact same case of PCOS says her specialists tell her that: having as many cysts as we do (we have skinny high cysts PCOS) - means that while our bodies want to ovulate, the cysts block the path of the developed egg.

Plus - with so many immature folicles floating round - ANY could grow big, hence the rates of twins are SO high with PCOS ladies.....

Ovulation induction drugs carry a high rate of multiples on their own. Much less my other independent risk factor of having a very high number (even for a woman with PCOS) of potential eggs available...

Hence the drilling seems a better fit, and something I will bring up and push for in my appointment.

Twins run in our family

I feel like I will have a girl, a boy couple years later and then a third later in life. Although I am just intuitive and not psychic (I just have life like dreams about future stuff occasionally nothing big).

Poor or not, a healthy child would be the best thing that could happen to me, twins or whatever.... I hope it goes smoothly; I have suffered enough as it is with this evil infertility.

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Old 18th September 2018, 11:56 PM   #52
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Leigh, are you talking IVF? Or will you start off with hormone treatments, whatever it's called?
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Old 19th September 2018, 7:05 AM   #53
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Leigh, are you talking IVF? Or will you start off with hormone treatments, whatever it's called?


No.

We will not be pursuing IVF, it is not for us. Nor is adoption.

Ovarian drilling is a good fit for women with my particular type of PCOS, or else ovulation induction with letrozol/femera. If that doesn't work - it will be onto self injecting gonadatripins/ and other hormones..

But I believe my ovaries are not the most stubborn case, given I at least get periods naturally and 28 day ones at that (most of the time - I either get 28 day cycles, or I bleed constantly lol every 2.5 months)

I will be asking for the drilling personally, as it is free with my private health and has an 80% success rate of restoring ovulation and drilling away the cysts. And is only keyhole so nothing too major...

We aim to be able to get it done and start trying to conceive this summer break in October.
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Old 19th September 2018, 7:48 AM   #54
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So does that mean you will be completing podiatry school while pregnant / with an infant and trying to start your career while simultaneously caring for a baby? Do you think you can handle both? Or are you planning to be a stay at home mom?
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Old 19th September 2018, 8:55 AM   #55
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So does that mean you will be completing podiatry school while pregnant / with an infant and trying to start your career while simultaneously caring for a baby? Do you think you can handle both? Or are you planning to be a stay at home mom?
Not "planning" at all, as we have no idea how long it will take me to conceive. It could take 4 or 5 years even with treatment.

We have no idea when it will happen.

We are going to start non invasive fertility treatment over the summer break. It probably will not work right away, therefore we will stop once I go back to uni, and re start treatment once I graduate October next year.

I will not be using contraception in the mean while and if it happens it would be great news - I can easily defer Uni, and would have not long to go until I graduate when I came back to the degree later on one the baby allows for it.

Many pregnant women at my Uni have managed to complete degrees while pregnant. I would initially try that, as the uni grants extensions to pregnant women all the time. If I just cannot manage due to severe morning sickness which many women get, even with the generous extensions granted - I would defer my degree. Having a family comes first, and while ideally, we would prefer a baby come in... well, October next year the second I am done podiatry school - with my infertility, we simply do not have the luxury of planning - nor do we want to postpone it one bit, given it often takes women with my disorder many, many years to conceive....

I have no expectations - I would just do the best I could - if I fall pregnant asap- GREAT - I will just try and make college work if I could, and if not I would gladly defer and get back to the degree later.
And yes, I intend to be a stay at home mum. I only ever to use my degree to work part time and be a full time mum for the most part. My profession is ideal for mums - as there is a LOT of part time roles and it is actually hard to get anything full time anyway....
I would go back to work full time only when the kids are in school. A part time podiatry wage is enough and partner has reached a level of income where I would not "have" to work, but would still want to a couple of days a week.

Goal one is to conceive - Uni is second. But both are things I HAVE to do in my life, it is just due to my condition that we have no idea which will occur first, nor how I would handle it if I did conceive sooner than later whilst I am studying.

When you know it could take you several years to conceive, you just prioritise it. You realise you can make the other aspects of your life work later, but it is foolish to postpone having kids when it will likely take you many years to conceive anyway,
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Old 19th September 2018, 2:21 PM   #56
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Leigh, have you ever actually tried to get pregnant before? Or not used any preventative methods while being sexually active?

I mean, you seem kind of convinced that you are infertile, but I have to tell you - many women with PCOS manage to get pregnant naturally. Especially since you say that your cycles are regular.

Maybe you should stop overthinking it so much and simply see what happens - many doctors reccommend seeing a fertility specialist only after about a year of trying and not getting pregnant.
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Old 20th September 2018, 8:04 AM   #57
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Leigh, have you ever actually tried to get pregnant before? Or not used any preventative methods while being sexually active?

I mean, you seem kind of convinced that you are infertile, but I have to tell you - many women with PCOS manage to get pregnant naturally. Especially since you say that your cycles are regular.

Maybe you should stop overthinking it so much and simply see what happens - many doctors reccommend seeing a fertility specialist only after about a year of trying and not getting pregnant.

I went off BC a year and a half ago - BUT - I did not get a period for 6 months - so that was 6 months of not ovulating.

I then got natural periods 3 months in a row - but different times each months so very irregular - and then the third month in a row I got a period - I bled and did not stop.....

I then went to see a natropath, and Chinese medicine and acupuncturist.

Within 1 month I had regular 28 day cycles.

I then stopped the natural remedies and started bleeding non stop again.

I am on month 1.5 of bleeding non stop, and am doing acupunctue Chinese medicine and medical grade natural hormone balancing pills daily and nightly.

The bleeding has already gotten much lighter. Although it was never heavy nor painful - just constant.

I can only fall pregnant if I ovulate an egg, and my eggs are good enough quality. Eastern Medicine like acupuncture and Chines herbs help restore egg quality. Plus acupuncture alone, makes me go from a very anxious person, to a veryyyy relaxed, happy person who is never depressed......

Look - most woman with PCOS take YEARS.... to conceive - and then they miscarry multiple times. I will more than likely need, at the very least - ovarian drilling to get rid of the cysts that built up (the immature follicles) when I was previously unhealthy for a good year after going off the pill....

I may never conceive. Nothing is a given, and PCOS has a veryyyyyyyyyyy very high rate of women who are infertile for their entire lives.

Plus we are against doing IVF or adopting as it is just not for us, so we really have a slim chance or at best - a 50/50 dice roll of ever conceiving....

Sure, if I was willing to do IVF 5 plus times or adopt or foster to adopt - sure, I would have a kid 99%....... BUT -we would prefer, the two of us in this relationship would prefer - to just grieve and accept it is not meant to be, and we know we have the capacity to love living DINK style - it is not our first choice, but we would be far happier doing that; we would feel like as science experiment with IVF, and adoption just does not feel right for us.

So... Given that I am ONLY willing to do ovary drilling and OR letrozol or injection ovulation induction drugs----- I have prob 50% or less shot at ever conceiving and carrying - the miscarriage rate is over 60% with PCOS so...

Yeah - This thread will more than likely result in my coming back one day in the future and being like... Yeah so, we just got back from our yearly holiday, career is great and we adopted 20 dogs
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Old 20th September 2018, 8:25 AM   #58
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I have an emergency appointment with my doctor Monday.

Hopefully she can refer me to a good endocrinologist so I can not only seek alternative help (that DOES work to a large degree - acupuncture has changed my life) - but now I can get the more specialised help that I need. Bleeding for months in a row sucks - despite the fact I do get regular periods too, in between the long, constant bleeding cycles

Throughout my life I have only ever seen the "good" GPs.. you know, the ones who use natural remedies AND medical stuff and who actually know how to treat all kinds of conditions without slapping a one approach fits all (with PCOS even specialists just say " just take birth control and then come back when you are trying to conceive and we will do IVF or ovulation drugs). Where as many women conceive using Chinese medicine WITH modern medicine, in the right combination - it usually, almost always works with PCOS along being the only issue - if only most women with PCOS could afford proper treatment.

My GP is hard to see, has no new openings and is just really, really good. But once she heard about my bleeding - she is taking me ASAP (she has a 3 to 4month waiting list) - and running a bunch of tests to ensure it is ONLY my pcos and my sh*t hormones.... after which, she will personally put together my own unique vitamins and mineral potent medical grade supplement, based on my blood results - to try help balance my hormones naturally rather than just throwing me own birth control, which is only a band-aid and never allows your body to even attempt to heal and regulate naturally....

I must say, bleeding non stop for months felt very draining indeed. I became bed ridden and some days, nearly deferred my degree It was just too much... to think I would not only live as an infertile and childless woman in world full of un deserving mums who get pregnant without trying - but to also have to go suffer through months of non stop periods

With my perspective, conceiving is a miracle and so I am just not one of those women who needs to have all her sh*t together and X amount of savings before I even "try" to conceive.

And I do not even have it bad compared to most women with my disease. I really take my hat off to women with PCOS who are not as fortunate as myself I have a fiance and parents to afford the very best medical care for me whilst I study podiatry and cannot work much.... Most women are obese, get a full beard, have acne to varying degrees, AND are rendered infertile my this awful illness that is "invisible".

Many women with PCOS (read: VERY common here).....soak through a super tampon and maxi pad within one hour or less for 1 year straight....and need multiple blood transfusions, to be on 4 different birth control pills A DAY, OR- many sadly get a hysterectomy at ages 26

I bleed light to medium and it stops, it just is fairly constant once every three cycles it happens - at least I can get regular cycles right?

But when I do get periods, they are very regular albeit, only two or three in a row are with me ovulating... And I have only been off the pill and having natural periods for a year and a bit, so maybe ... maybe there is some hope for me.... But money side, I will for sure never prevent a miracle, considering I may never conceive OR carry.....

I need to get myself well and recover from the blood loss. This could take a good year in itself, which just so happens to co inside with my graduating podiatry at age 32. Yes, I changed careers later in life and found my falling a bit later than most women.

I am thinking that I should focus on graduating on time and not failing and therefore, being held back a year longer... as it will take that long to fix my hormones anyway, with no chance of pregnancy in the meanwhile, until my doctor and specialists AND acupuncturists - all work their magic.

All this treatment is very expensive - but at least I get a shot at conceiving one day, poor or not at the time....
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Old 20th September 2018, 8:39 AM   #59
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Leigh, have you ever actually tried to get pregnant before? Or not used any preventative methods while being sexually active?

I mean, you seem kind of convinced that you are infertile, but I have to tell you - many women with PCOS manage to get pregnant naturally. Especially since you say that your cycles are regular.

Maybe you should stop overthinking it so much and simply see what happens - many doctors reccommend seeing a fertility specialist only after about a year of trying and not getting pregnant.
We have not used protection for a year and a half since going off the Pill - but then again - I did not get a period for a good 5 to 6 months post pill, therefore I was not actually ovulating at all ....

Then 4.5 months post pill has been non stop bleeding.

I have only had about 6 regular 28 day cycles post pill Three of them start and finishing on the same day, so I have prob only ovulated like 2 or 3 times in 1.5 years.

Yes I need to see a specialist to get pregnant. We are going down this road ASAP not that he landed a high enough paying job.

Him nor I decided we do not want to postpone it and be older parents if at all possible.
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Old 20th September 2018, 5:32 PM   #60
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1 year attempts (i.e. no protection sex) under 35 makes for an infertility diagnosis.

Why is the constant bleeding? How are your progesteron levels?

Three of them start and finishing on the same day - that's unlikely a period, you may need to dig further what causes your bleeds.

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We have not used protection for a year and a half since going off the Pill - but then again - I did not get a period for a good 5 to 6 months post pill, therefore I was not actually ovulating at all ....

Then 4.5 months post pill has been non stop bleeding.

I have only had about 6 regular 28 day cycles post pill Three of them start and finishing on the same day, so I have prob only ovulated like 2 or 3 times in 1.5 years.

Yes I need to see a specialist to get pregnant. We are going down this road ASAP not that he landed a high enough paying job.

Him nor I decided we do not want to postpone it and be older parents if at all possible.
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