Corporal Punishment?

[BlackLovely]

I know that I am opening a can of worms here, but I think it will make for interesting discussion....here goes nothing....

Parents: How do you feel about corporal punishment? Do you think that spankings are necessary or abusive?

I'm asking because I am exploring my abusive childhood with my therapist. We have deep discussions about discipline and its purpose.

I think that hitting should be the last resort. I also think that parents need to be careful of the way they hit their children; a smack on the bottom is acceptable, whereas kicking is not. I believe that if a parent constantly beats their child for silly childish mistakes, she is simply taking out unhappiness on the kid.

I feel so sorry for my nieces. They are being raised the way I was, with fear and violence. I have told my precious girls that Auntie will never hit them, no matter what they do. I'm certain that I will be their confidant when they get older, because they will not be afraid of being throttled.

If you make your kids fear you too much, you will never be close to them.

I will not respond to angry or abusive posts. Disagreement is fine, insults are not.

[KikiW]

I have given my daughter a swat on the behind perhaps a total of 3 or 4 times. She was around 2-3 years old at the time, she was completely melting down and not listening to her dad or I - whether we were talking calmly or yelling it did not get her attention. After getting a swat or two she would instantly stop screaming and would settle down, and be able to communicate more effectively.

 

I did not enjoy doing it, but it shocked her out of her meltdown and stopped her tantrum. I do not believe this is considered abuse. It may have stung for 15 seconds, but it wasn't permanent or lasting, except as a reminder that she would get a swat if she acted out.

 

As she got older, we changed tactics to remove her favorite toys. Only TWICE has she slept in a bed empty of stuffed animals. That became more effective because she was attached to her toys. Now that she is close to 10 years old, we use grounding techniques. I believe in using age-appropriate punishments, and they seem to work just fine.

 

I don't believe we were wrong to spank her - we used it as a last resort and while we may have been frustrated, we never did it out of anger and just sat there beating the hell out of her. We set limits for her behavior and stuck to them, and punished her when she stepped over them too far. While she still pushes boundaries, like any kid does, she is overall extremely well behaved, polite, and a great kid to be around. So often I see parents struggling with unruly kids, and I suspect it's because they didn't lay down the law early enough and now the kids walk all over them.

[candymoon]

I popped my DD (4) on the hands once when i caught her playing with a poopy diaper (it was in her hair!) . That was 2 years ago and I havent repeated that form of punishment since.

 

I had friends who smacked their kids for every little offense. I also had friends who did no form of discipline at all. I've found that too much of either extreme is never good.

 

I, personally, don't think it's necessary. I find that people spank their kids over and over again for the same things. Sometimes it works for that specific incident, only for the kid to try another variation of it, so the parents find themselves spanking the kids off throughout the day or week--so IMHO it doesn't appear to work long term or provide a life lesson. It seems to make them either indignant or frightened of their caregivers, depending on their personality.

[Stung]

I've never used corporal punishment, but I can't say that there won't come a time when I do...just a swat, for emphasis. It could happen. I have grabbed and restrained a child to calm them down and force them to listen/use their words.

 

I don't think the occasional swat or spank is abusive, although I don't think they're usually the best parenting method, either. I prefer to set boundaries early, and try to stick to a system of communication, time-outs, rewards for positive behavior, etc. Older kids can lose allowances and privileges, or get stuck with extra chores, or get grounded.

 

Sometimes the kids drive me up the wall or frustrate the hell out of me and I yell more than I should, or feel tempted to exert a harder authority than I need to...I was raised with some violent parameters too and I battle with a tendency to lash out verbally when I'm getting really angry, or start to want to slam doors, etc. At those times I go for a walk, or if I can't leave I send the kids to their rooms and tell them I will deal with them when I have a cooler head. My husband is a wonderful balance for me in this way, he gets grumpy and surly more easily than I do in general and I am good at teasing him back into a good mood, but he has less of a serious temper than I do and is good at helping me back up and center myself.

 

If either of us has been unwontedly cranky for whatever reason we usually talk to the kids and apologize and try to explain why we are stressed and what buttons they are pushing (it can be hard to make these conversations age-appropriate, though). We also expect them to be learning how to improve their communication skills, and to apologize to us when their behavior has been bad or disrespectful.

 

Obviously serious beatings are abuse, and a chronic state of tension and fear is emotional abuse. I can't imagine a situation in which I would ever kick my child, or pet, or seriously hurt them.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Stung

[Feelin Frisky]

I was the first of a brood of 8 kids my parents had in rapid succession. I was so brutalized by them and my uncle that I think it has a lot to do with why I never wanted a child. I don't know how one squares violence on a child if you don't make time to establish a social connection with them.

[threebyfate]

I don't think corporal is ever necessary with children. Never once had to use it on my nephews or friend's kids when babysitting and will NEVER use it on my son.

 

My parents never laid a hand on any of us. My grandparents on both sides never laid a hand on my parents or any of their siblings.

 

It's not necessary.

[BlackLovely]

I was the first of a brood of 8 kids my parents had in rapid succession. I was so brutalized by them and my uncle that I think it has a lot to do with why I never wanted a child. I don't know how one squares violence on a child if you don't make time to establish a social connection with them.

 

I had the same experience and now I have the same attitude towards becoming a mother. Hooray for dysfunctional families!

I only laugh now, because if I don't, I will cry.

[bentnotbroken]

I used it. It was used on me. I am from a different generation. I also believe there is a certain age range that it can be used for effectively, but beyond that it isn't needed or warranted.

[edgeofdarkness]

 

Parents: How do you feel about corporal punishment? Do you think that spankings are necessary or abusive?

abusive

I'm asking because I am exploring my abusive childhood with my therapist. We have deep discussions about discipline and its purpose.

the purpose of discipline is to guide the child and demonstrate that there are acceptable ways of doing something and unacceptable ways, but you dont need to hit them to teach them this

 

I think hitting is totally unnecessary and u should never resort to it period

 

I also think that parents need to be careful of the way they hit their children; a smack on the bottom is acceptable, whereas kicking is not.

What difference does hitting with a hand make to hitting with a foot, you are still taking advantage of a person who cannot defend themselves, its completely wrong

 

I believe that if a parent constantly beats their child for silly childish mistakes, she is simply taking out unhappiness on the kid.

I believe that if a parent constantly beats their child theyre not worthy of being a parent and should be locked up

I feel so sorry for my nieces. They are being raised the way I was, with fear and violence. I have told my precious girls that Auntie will never hit them, no matter what they do. I'm certain that I will be their confidant when they get older, because they will not be afraid of being throttled.

id have no hesitation in reporting the parents to social services and getting something done about it, it think your nieces need protection not a confidant, whatever u want to be to them they wont thank you for standing by and letting it happen

If you make your kids fear you too much, you will never be close to them.

I will not respond to angry or abusive posts. Disagreement is fine, insults are not.

I wasnt being rude, i hope u know that, but i feel strongly about this, history, dont ask, i just hate any type of violence against kids, hate it.

[witabix]

There was never any corporal punishment towards me as I was growing up. I made my Mum laugh too much to hit me, and my Dad was a man you respected. He only hit me once. A right hook on the jaw when I was a teen. I deserved it too.

 

I did see my Mum hitting my youngest brother though, never liked it, or understood it. He just wouldn't listen to a word she said.

 

I smacked each of my eldest children exactly once each (When they were small 3 or 4). I hated myself afterwards and never did it again.

 

As an adult I have been quite a violent person , to other adult males, but I could never strike a child again, even a smack on the botty is too much for me. Odd ethics I know, but there you go.

[RA1]

A swat for emphasis is maybe OK on rare occasions but most of the time corporal punishment does more harm than good in the long run.

[edgeofdarkness]

a swat for emphasis, what u mean, 'smack' now do as I say, because im bigger than u i can hit u if i want u cant hit me back and whats more there isnt a fu**ing thing u can do about it, hey if u were adult u could charge me with assault but guess what ur just a little kid, so that makes it much easier for me to hit u.

 

is that the kind of emphasis u mean, shouldnt have joined this thread, any hitting of kids is an executable offence if u ask me i feel really bad about this.

:sick:

[SlevinKalebra]

I am torn, I see kids today (God I'm old) and I think if I would have ever pulled that.... And look at the lack of respect from kids at any grocery store you will see little Timmy kicking his mother in the knee because she won't buy him something and her response "do you want a time out?" Which he answers with another kick. Uhhh, what? That's not right. Not saying the response is a swat, but where is that healthy fear? I would never have acted like that. I never got the swatting ( well once) but I knew better.

On the other hand if it is used the lesson becomes if I get caught I get smacked. So I'll be sneakier. And they are big I am little so they get to bully me. I guess I am lucky, I have never swatted my kids and 9 times out of ten all I have to do is give a stern look and argument over. I guess, no, there needs to be respect and "healthy" fear but smacking, swatting whatever is not healthy

[bentnotbroken]

Are you black?

 

In certain cultures, hitting is the norm and accepted.

 

 

This statement is true. It is also true for different regions in a given country, different religions(spare the rod, spoil the child) and educational levels. Black has little to do with it.

[Tayla]

a swat for emphasis, what u mean, 'smack' now do as I say, because im bigger than u i can hit u if i want u cant hit me back and whats more there isnt a fu**ing thing u can do about it, hey if u were adult u could charge me with assault but guess what ur just a little kid, so that makes it much easier for me to hit u.

 

is that the kind of emphasis u mean, shouldnt have joined this thread, any hitting of kids is an executable offence if u ask me i feel really bad about this.

:sick:

 

Edge, you are speaking to deaf folks with your rational and true statements. Emotions run high and unfortunately those who do use Spanks and swats or any means to command "control" rarely acknowledge that side. In a way if they put themselves in their childs' shoes and experienced that as adults they would call a womens shelter and get out of that home....Hooray for those that are willing to see it for what it is though....

 

Read the comments of those who use the terminology "punishment" verses those that use the terminology "discipline". Entirely different if you look them up! Which is why I find it fascinating when folks respond..it tells you from the get go how they parent...thru guidance and love or thru the rod....

[lilbunny]

I find it fascinating when folks respond..it tells you from the get go how they parent...thru guidance and love or thru the rod....

 

I'm not sure these things are mutually exclusive. I had a great childhood, I never feared my parents and we were actively encouraged to speak our minds even if it didn't change the outcome or our parents' minds. I had a few rocky moments as a teen, but other than that have always been close to both my mam and dad. They have always been approachable and even at my difficult teen stage I confided in them and got advice (I didn't and to this day don't always follow it, but that is the nature of advising someone and evidence we were far from controlled). We were encouraged and praised, without pressure. There is the guidance and love.

 

As a kid I knew ultimately if I really stepped out of line I might well get a crack across the bottom (or a clip round my ear from my nan especially as I got older- it never hurt it was more symbolic). I can probably count on one hand the number of times my parents deemed my behaviour severe enough to warrant this with me. It was a bit more frequent with my brothers, but they were generally naughtier anyway. None of us resent it, feel abused and because of that final sanction I suspect we drew back from any serious bad behaviour that might have had an impact on our lives as adults. There is the rod, used if used sparingly.

[BlackLovely]

Yes, I am black. My family is Jamaican; which partly explains the brutality.

Jamaicans speak proudly of "instilling that fear" in their children. They think nothing of using fists, feet, teeth and household appliances on their children. Jamaican children are expected to put up with this and are usually ostracized for speaking out against abuse. I have confronted my mother in the past about this and her response was "Why do you have to talk about it? None of your cousins or brothers mention it." My guess is that it makes her feel guilty and she cannot handle that.

 

What is your take on why she does this??

 

Because of the "don't ask, don't tell" secrecy around abuse, children raised by Jamaican parents rarely contact Children's Aid. Even if the poor babies are aware that the beatings are wrong, they are too afraid to report it. They also tend to internalize and blame themselves.

 

I will not be reporting my niece's mother, my brother or my mother for abusing the girls. It might be hard for people who do not have Jamaican (or Old World) parents to understand. When I went to school with marks, the Canadian white children would always want to report my parents. The children with non Canadian parents would just hug me and tell me to stay strong. They knew the deal.

 

Discipline is teaching a child right from wrong, with the use of communication and consequences. Punishment teaches nothing; it only serves to inflict pain.

[Dooda]

BlackLovely, because most kids can take it. They can take being beaten, and suck it up... But, some kids just aren't like that. And, regardless of whether you can take it or not, it doesn't disprove the fact that it is wrong, simply.

I wasn't like that. I was for a while, but then I realized how abusive my parents were, and how much they really didn't realize it. Oh god, if I could only have wished for a small swat on the ass.

 

I think under the age of 3, or 4, or whenever it is they can start to UNDERSTAND you through words and other means of discipline, then it's fine to give them a small little swat on the hand to let them know what's wrong. It's like spraying a cat with water when it's doing the mistake, rather than beating it. He'll just get an instinct, I feel pain on my hand when I do this, I won't do it.

But when the kid's old enough to think, then no. I was beaten, I mean beaten, not just the regular smack. Hair pulling (I'm a guy) , face punching, slapping, and it really has had an impact on my life.

 

I would much rather have a parent who can maintain control and be firm while instilling FAIR guidelines and rules, rather than have a parent who goes into rages and senselessly beats me until he's satisfied. That's no way to raise a child. A parent who can maintain respect, respect himself, and respect his child will ultimately have a child who respects him. If you have no respect for your child, how do you expect him to have respect for you? Respect goes both ways.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Dooda

[Dooda]

And, to answer your question of why your mother does this, I think it's because she doesn't realize that she is abusive. That is how she was raised, that is how her grandparents were raised, and that is how she raised you and your siblings, and only you have ever raised questions.

Why would she ever question herself?

[edgeofdarkness]

BlackLovely, because most kids can take it. They can take being beaten, and suck it up...

WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO, SIMPLY BECOS AN ADULT CANNOT SHOW SELF-CONTROL??? Any adult who hits a kid is a bully and is spineless, and shows they cant control themselves, its like this.

"Your brain and logic is that of a child, u are not as clever, intelligent or advanced as I am, I am an adult, but you still got one over on me, so here's a swat to make me feel better about the fact that i let u push my buttons, bcos i cant control myself??" that is just pahtetic, weak and senseless

 

But, some kids just aren't like that. And, regardless of whether you can take it or not, it doesn't disprove the fact that it is wrong, simply.

yeah right, it is totally wrong, i see u say that now

 

I wasn't like that. I was for a while, but then I realized how abusive my parents were, and how much they really didn't realize it. Oh god, if I could only have wished for a small swat on the ass.

I wish smacking kids was a offence punishable by law, i mean really, set a big bully onto them c how they like it

 

I think under the age of 3, or 4, or whenever it is they can start to UNDERSTAND you through words and other means of discipline, then it's fine to give them a small little swat on the hand to let them know what's wrong. It's like spraying a cat with water when it's doing the mistake, rather than beating it. He'll just get an instinct, I feel pain on my hand when I do this, I won't do it.

NO NO NO!!!!

If they can understand u thru words why cant u tell them thru words what u want??? swat on the hand is wrong! A cat being sprayed with water doesnt think I feel pain when u do this, it says yuk water, im outta here, but its not painful or hurtful. a stinging swat on the hand teaches a kid that pain is not ok for the kid, but its ok for the grown up. No no no, its never ever right to hit a child especially when its a little kid that only understands simple terms, since when is it ok to smack something innocent simply becos the adult is too incapable of disciplining the child in more constructive ways, this is just WRONG!!!!!!

But when the kid's old enough to think, then no. I was beaten, I mean beaten, not just the regular smack. Hair pulling (I'm a guy) , face punching, slapping, and it really has had an impact on my life.

Then how could u ever think its ok to hit a kid in anyway at all, dude, that is just messed up, i suffered severe beatings at the hand of a grownup when I was a kid landed me in hospital, no i could never raise my hand in anger at anyone whatever,....id rather leave the room and calm down than spark someone...

 

I would much rather have a parent who can maintain control and be firm while instilling FAIR guidelines and rules, rather than have a parent who goes into rages and senselessly beats me until he's satisfied. That's no way to raise a child. A parent who can maintain respect, respect himself, and respect his child will ultimately have a child who respects him. If you have no respect for your child, how do you expect him to have respect for you? Respect goes both ways.

u respect a person by agreeing that their body is sacred, would u make love to your child, no of course not, its improper, would u hit your husband wife or partner, no of course not, its improper, but its ok the other way round, of course? no, its improper to hit your kid, just as much as it is improper to hit your spouse. Edited August 22, 2010 by edgeofdarkness

[BlackLovely]

BlackLovely, because most kids can take it. They can take being beaten, and suck it up... But, some kids just aren't like that. And, regardless of whether you can take it or not, it doesn't disprove the fact that it is wrong, simply.

I wasn't like that. I was for a while, but then I realized how abusive my parents were, and how much they really didn't realize it. Oh god, if I could only have wished for a small swat on the ass.

 

I think under the age of 3, or 4, or whenever it is they can start to UNDERSTAND you through words and other means of discipline, then it's fine to give them a small little swat on the hand to let them know what's wrong. It's like spraying a cat with water when it's doing the mistake, rather than beating it. He'll just get an instinct, I feel pain on my hand when I do this, I won't do it.

But when the kid's old enough to think, then no. I was beaten, I mean beaten, not just the regular smack. Hair pulling (I'm a guy) , face punching, slapping, and it really has had an impact on my life.

 

I would much rather have a parent who can maintain control and be firm while instilling FAIR guidelines and rules, rather than have a parent who goes into rages and senselessly beats me until he's satisfied. That's no way to raise a child. A parent who can maintain respect, respect himself, and respect his child will ultimately have a child who respects him. If you have no respect for your child, how do you expect him to have respect for you? Respect goes both ways.

 

It sounds like you think I'm weak, for not being able to "suck it up and take it."

[PegNosePete]

BlackLovely, because most kids can take it. They can take being beaten, and suck it up...

That is a hugely offensive and wrong thing to say!

 

What if you had been beaten up in the street and had your things stolen? The police caught the offender, there were plenty of witnesses, it is an open and shut case. But you stand up in court as a witness, and the judge says "you can take it, the hospital fixed you up. You earn $20,000 a year so you can afford to lose your money once in a while. Suck it up and take it. Case dismissed."

[Clep]

Yes, I am black. My family is Jamaican; which partly explains the brutality.

Jamaicans speak proudly of "instilling that fear" in their children. They think nothing of using fists, feet, teeth and household appliances on their children. Jamaican children are expected to put up with this and are usually ostracized for speaking out against abuse. I have confronted my mother in the past about this and her response was "Why do you have to talk about it? None of your cousins or brothers mention it." My guess is that it makes her feel guilty and she cannot handle that.

 

What is your take on why she does this??

 

Because of the "don't ask, don't tell" secrecy around abuse, children raised by Jamaican parents rarely contact Children's Aid. Even if the poor babies are aware that the beatings are wrong, they are too afraid to report it. They also tend to internalize and blame themselves.

 

I will not be reporting my niece's mother, my brother or my mother for abusing the girls. It might be hard for people who do not have Jamaican (or Old World) parents to understand. When I went to school with marks, the Canadian white children would always want to report my parents. The children with non Canadian parents would just hug me and tell me to stay strong. They knew the deal.

 

Discipline is teaching a child right from wrong, with the use of communication and consequences. Punishment teaches nothing; it only serves to inflict pain.

 

I used to have a Jamaican bf. He never hit his children but did use other emotional brutality to instill fear in them. They were very afraid of him finding out they did anything wrong. It didn't make them listen any more to him, it made them sneaky. They just became very skilled at manipulation and lying. It would drive him crazy, but he felt the problem was him, not his parenting.

 

I have always been very against corporal punishment of any kind. I was an abused child. My son is seven and I have a great deal of education on constructive methods to make children's behaviors meaningful to them. Recently it came to me that I was having problems with my child as he felt he was at my level in life, due to all the talking and negotiation going on.

 

Dad and I finally sat him down and expressed that since words were not working I would provide him a smack for lying should that happen again. I explained the boundaries very clearly, that he would have to let me know when he was ready for his smack should that end up being the case, then we could talk about things and brainstorm other ideas to avoid that in the future. We always did the brainstorming before.

 

The day came and after calmly discussing it and him deciding he was ready he received his smack. He now knows he is not on our level, that we are the parents and he is the child. The dynamics in our home changed greatly. It has not happened since. All I have to do is remind him to listen to my words, like I listen to his and so does dad.

 

Had things gone one like before, we would have lost the teaching years due to defiance I think.

[donnamaybe]

Watch out Clep. Some folks, due to a violent upbringing, cannot grasp the difference between assaultive behavior and a calm, controlled spanking. You're about to be labeled and called all sorts of derogatory names. Get ready for the verbal brutalization!

[edgeofdarkness]

not from me ive already said my piece, people wanna smack their kids they just show themselves to be weaker than their own kids, its ridiculous that somebody less intelligent, less strong, less entitled and so much younger actually has to put up with the fact that adults are also entitled to hit them.

 

The day came and after calmly discussing it and him deciding he was ready he received his smack. He now knows he is not on our level, that we are the parents and he is the child. The dynamics in our home changed greatly. It has not happened since. All I have to do is remind him to listen to my words, like I listen to his and so does dad.

so basically u r telling him that he is inferior to u, does not have the same rights and that because u are in power he has to endure yr loss of control, i hope u r ok with that.

So how would u feel if he hit you back, would that b ok, 'mom dad u really made me angry just now, so later on i am gonna come and smack you one, but i'm giving u fair warning. Is that ok??'

 

Had things gone one like before, we would have lost the teaching years due to defiance I think.

u think, but u cant be sure.

Im not gonna resort to name calling but its pretty clear to everyone that as far as im concerned laying one single finger on any other person in order to get them to comply with what u want thru force, not thru reason, is just crazy.

ok good luck.

Edited August 23, 2010 by edgeofdarkness