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Am I able to take daughter on vacation??


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Hello all, I'm new to the parenting group...

 

I just have a little scenario that I would like some input on and how you would go about the situation.

 

I just left a 10 year abusive relationship and the ex and I have 2 girls together, one is 9 the other is 5. I have full legal/sole custody of them because their father and I were NOT married when we had the girls and NEVER married after that, so I was automatically given full/sole custody in my state (Minnesota). My issue is that I feel the girls and I deserve a little vacation to take not only my mind off of the split, but to take the girls' mind off of the split. I was planning to take them on a one week vacation to go see some friends of mine in Virginia. I had already talked to the girls about going to the beach, going to Busch Gardens... etc.... they are so excited.

 

I didn't tell the ex about it yet since I didn't get the tickets yet. But he found out through one of the girls bringing it up to him. So... he called me while I was at work to ask me when I was going to tell him about the trip. I said I was gonna tell him once I purchased the tickets becuase I wasn't 100% sure yet that we were going. He got extremely mad at me and told me that I was not allowed to take them with me. Even though he has no legal rights to the girls... My lawyer told me that I am able to take them anywhere even move out of state since he has no legal rights to them and I don't need his permission. But... he's telling me I'm not allowed to take them there!!! For only one week!!! he said "i" can go but I have to leave the girls with him... I asked him where the girls would stay and he said "I dunno"

 

He said I can take them ANYWHERE but Virginia because I have friends there that he is jealous of. I'm so sick of his childish ways. I don't know what to do anymore. I don't want to put my girls through more of his abusive ways... and this I feel is robbing the girls of some "fun" time to get their minds off of all that has happened.

 

Has anybody else been through this before? What should I do? Friends and family say "go anyway"... what would you do? I would be going July 5 - 12... not like I'm gonna be gone for 1 year!! Any advice is welcome! thanks...

 

 

PS... i also asked him why he won't let me take them... he says because I am unfit and that when I go there I will be unstable.... I feel that he is using the kids to get to me which is not fair to the kids... can't he let them live??

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ignore him, and pay attention to your lawyer. Or if you're still dubious, contact the local women's shelter and talk to the counsellor there about your rights (she'll prolly tell you the same thing the lawyer does, that you're free and clear to travel), and that your ex is merely doing his best to intimidate you. If you're STILL hesitant, check with the police station, take notes and leave them someplace safe. In fact, do that with every person you talk with so that when your ex tries to pull something stupid – and he will, because it's still all about him exerting control over you – you've got back-up in writing.

 

meanwhile, don't let him get on you about this ... after all, you're not 100 percent sure the trip is on, so he's blowing hot air at you until the decision is fully executed, you know?

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Travel with a copy of the custody documents. When I travel out of country with my kids, I carry documents signed by my XH indicating that he knows that I am taking them, where we are going, and for how long. That is now almost a requirement for one parent to take kids out of the country - married or divorced. But we have shared custody, so he does have a say.

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whichwayisup
Even though he has no legal rights to the girls...

 

How can he have no legal rights to his own daughters? HE is the father, yes? It is because he was abusive? Sorry, I don't understand..

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Legally, he has no "legal" rights to the girls because in the state of MN... if you are not married when you have your kids... physical legal custody automatically goes to the mother, because they make the unwed father sign a form saying... yes, i am the father but I am giving all "legal" rights to the mother since we are not married.

 

So... legally... he has no rights to the kids. I do let him see them regularly though. I don't keep him from his kids. If he wants to establish any type of custody then he has to go to court to establish it, which he hasn't so far.

 

I hope that clarifies it a little.

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They can't "make" you sign anything. Anything that requires your signature requires your consent. Anything that doesn't require your consent comes in the form of a court order.

 

Your story sounds a little "dicey" in that area, but it doesn't really matter. It sounds to me like he signed away his parenting rights willingly. Probably in exchange for not having to pay child support. Regardless of the reason, he signed them away, and he'll have to live with that or petition the court.

 

If he has no right to tell you otherwise, and it is a harmless vacation, right? Simply do as you please.

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Why is he jealous of your friends in Virginia. I mean, from what you have posted, its obvious you can take your daughters there regardless of whether he approves or not, so its not really an issue. But there must be something more to this if he is so threatened by some people you know in virginia that he resorts to these kinds of childish tactics. Is there another man there? One you might potentially be involved with romantically? If that's the case then he is probably scared that he might be replaced one day as the 'daddy' to his girls and this is his way of trying to stall the inevitable. He probably doesn't like the idea of his daughters seeing some other guy spending time with mommy. Of course, this is just an assumption on my part, and if its wrong I apologize, but I think the reasons for you choosing to visit these friends in Virginia is probably pretty significant to your dilemna and you won't put your ex at ease, or yourself until you confront and resolve this particular issue.

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climbergirl
They can't "make" you sign anything. Anything that requires your signature requires your consent. Anything that doesn't require your consent comes in the form of a court order.

 

Your story sounds a little "dicey" in that area, but it doesn't really matter. It sounds to me like he signed away his parenting rights willingly. Probably in exchange for not having to pay child support. Regardless of the reason, he signed them away, and he'll have to live with that or petition the court.

 

If he has no right to tell you otherwise, and it is a harmless vacation, right? Simply do as you please.

 

I live in Minnesota, and have the same situation as the OP.

 

What happens here is if you are not married when you have a baby, and even if the father signs the birth certificate and a recognition of parentage, sole legal and physical custody goes to the mother. The father has to petition the court for visitation rights to have a 'say' in the upbringing of their child (remember that I'm speaking that this is how it is legally, not how it should be ethically). Until he does so, the mother has the reins in any decision regarding the baby. And, even if he's paying child support this is how it is.

 

So, to the OP, it sounds like you know that you are able to (legally) take them on a vacation--are you trying to ask if doing so is worth suffering his wrath?

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After fighting with the ex the whole weekend and after tape recording all of his threats to do bodily harm to me... i have decided that I am no longer living my life by him and I have purchased the tickets whether he likes it or not. I tried reasoning with him that the kids deserve a vacation and he is wrong for trying to prevent that.

 

As far as Virginia goes... they are friends of mine whom I've known for 17 years. There is one (the oldest) whom I am romantically involved with but he is the most understanding of understanding people. He always says that children come first. We've already discussed issues and the insecurities that the ex has. My friend in VA has said that there is no one that could ever replace my girls' father... which is exactly what I have told the ex. But he's told me I could take the girls anywhere in the world but not VA... I got the tickets already and he says "We'll see about that"... another threat.

 

The reason I asked if I could take the girls was not because I know I can, but because I am afraid that this will set off their abusive father to do something to harm me. I am starting to fear for my safety and my therapist also told me that this is one of the most dangerous times to ever come around the ex.

 

That's why I was wondering what anyone else would do in this situation?? Would you go - knowing you have every right to take your kids... or would you go by the controlling manipulative tactics the ex displays??

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curiousnycgirl

The trip is irrelevant you need to worry about your safety while in MN. He could care less where you take the kids, he's trying to control you. So the question about custody is irrelevant.

 

I'd be getting a restraining order, and order of protection and/or whatever else is necessary. Frankly I'd be worry about him around the kids - has he ever been abusive to them?! Is there any concern that he will disappear with your kids? If yes to either one of these is yes, then I'd cease all visitation.

 

Are you afraid of his hurting you when you two exchange the kids? If so have someone else do it for you.

 

Good luck to you!

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curiousnycgirl
That's why I was wondering what anyone else would do in this situation?? Would you go - knowing you have every right to take your kids... or would you go by the controlling manipulative tactics the ex displays??

 

If my answer to the question wasn't clear - sorry hell yes I'd head to VA!

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I live in Minnesota, and have the same situation as the OP.

 

What happens here is if you are not married when you have a baby, and even if the father signs the birth certificate and a recognition of parentage, sole legal and physical custody goes to the mother. The father has to petition the court for visitation rights to have a 'say' in the upbringing of their child (remember that I'm speaking that this is how it is legally, not how it should be ethically). Until he does so, the mother has the reins in any decision regarding the baby. And, even if he's paying child support this is how it is.

 

So, to the OP, it sounds like you know that you are able to (legally) take them on a vacation--are you trying to ask if doing so is worth suffering his wrath?

 

 

 

That makes more sense. Thanks!

 

 

 

As far as going to VA goes. You should go, and stay, after you get a restraining order with your recordings. Make him petition the court to see his kids if he likes threats. Voicing your distaste is one thing, threatening harm is another completely.

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You should talk to your lawyer again about the threats of physical violence because of your plans to take the trip.

 

This guy needs a wake up call and obviously he has no fear of you.

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Hello all, I'm new to the parenting group...

 

I just have a little scenario that I would like some input on and how you would go about the situation.

 

I just left a 10 year abusive relationship and the ex and I have 2 girls together, one is 9 the other is 5. I have full legal/sole custody of them because their father and I were NOT married when we had the girls and NEVER married after that, so I was automatically given full/sole custody in my state (Minnesota). My issue is that I feel the girls and I deserve a little vacation to take not only my mind off of the split, but to take the girls' mind off of the split. I was planning to take them on a one week vacation to go see some friends of mine in Virginia. I had already talked to the girls about going to the beach, going to Busch Gardens... etc.... they are so excited.

 

I didn't tell the ex about it yet since I didn't get the tickets yet. But he found out through one of the girls bringing it up to him. So... he called me while I was at work to ask me when I was going to tell him about the trip. I said I was gonna tell him once I purchased the tickets becuase I wasn't 100% sure yet that we were going. He got extremely mad at me and told me that I was not allowed to take them with me.

 

I guess it depends on the wording in the custody agreement. Granted, you might not have the traditional agreement like I have. Both of us are entitled to 2 weeks uninterrupted vacation with the kids as long as we give each other a fair amount of notice.

 

 

Even though he has no legal rights to the girls... My lawyer told me that I am able to take them anywhere even move out of state since he has no legal rights to them and I don't need his permission.

 

Even if he had legal rights, as crappy as it is, if you are the custodial parent you still could move out of state with them if you wanted to.

 

But that could have undesirable consequences as well. A good lawyer can get it so that the father has to pay no child support if the mother takes his kids from him.

 

But... he's telling me I'm not allowed to take them there!!! For only one week!!! he said "i" can go but I have to leave the girls with him... I asked him where the girls would stay and he said "I dunno"

 

He is wrong, you can take them on vacation if you want to.

 

 

He said I can take them ANYWHERE but Virginia because I have friends there that he is jealous of. I'm so sick of his childish ways. I don't know what to do anymore. I don't want to put my girls through more of his abusive ways... and this I feel is robbing the girls of some "fun" time to get their minds off of all that has happened.

 

Has anybody else been through this before? What should I do? Friends and family say "go anyway"... what would you do?

 

If your lawyer says go, then thats all you need to know. Your lawyer will handle any crap he sends your way.

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Legally, he has no "legal" rights to the girls because in the state of MN... if you are not married when you have your kids... physical legal custody automatically goes to the mother

 

 

LOL...physical custody goes to the mother no matter what state you are in. If a father fights for custody, no matter where he is, he WILL lose unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt the mother is unfit.

 

Fathers get the shaft, period.

 

 

because they make the unwed father sign a form saying... yes, i am the father but I am giving all "legal" rights to the mother since we are not married.

 

And if he didn't sign it? I don't get it. Why "make" him sign a form? Why not just make it law and cut out the signing altogether. Why not completely tell the father "tought sh#t"?

 

 

So... legally... he has no rights to the kids. I do let him see them regularly though. I don't keep him from his kids. If he wants to establish any type of custody then he has to go to court to establish it, which he hasn't so far.

 

I hope that clarifies it a little.

 

Is he ordered to pay child support from a government that takes away his rights?

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Hello all, I'm new to the parenting group...

 

I just have a little scenario that I would like some input on and how you would go about the situation.

 

I just left a 10 year abusive relationship and the ex and I have 2 girls together, one is 9 the other is 5. I have full legal/sole custody of them because their father and I were NOT married when we had the girls and NEVER married after that, so I was automatically given full/sole custody in my state (Minnesota). My issue is that I feel the girls and I deserve a little vacation to take not only my mind off of the split, but to take the girls' mind off of the split. I was planning to take them on a one week vacation to go see some friends of mine in Virginia. I had already talked to the girls about going to the beach, going to Busch Gardens... etc.... they are so excited.

 

I didn't tell the ex about it yet since I didn't get the tickets yet. But he found out through one of the girls bringing it up to him. So... he called me while I was at work to ask me when I was going to tell him about the trip. I said I was gonna tell him once I purchased the tickets becuase I wasn't 100% sure yet that we were going. He got extremely mad at me and told me that I was not allowed to take them with me. Even though he has no legal rights to the girls... My lawyer told me that I am able to take them anywhere even move out of state since he has no legal rights to them and I don't need his permission. But... he's telling me I'm not allowed to take them there!!! For only one week!!! he said "i" can go but I have to leave the girls with him... I asked him where the girls would stay and he said "I dunno"

 

He said I can take them ANYWHERE but Virginia because I have friends there that he is jealous of. I'm so sick of his childish ways. I don't know what to do anymore. I don't want to put my girls through more of his abusive ways... and this I feel is robbing the girls of some "fun" time to get their minds off of all that has happened.

 

Has anybody else been through this before? What should I do? Friends and family say "go anyway"... what would you do? I would be going July 5 - 12... not like I'm gonna be gone for 1 year!! Any advice is welcome! thanks...

 

 

PS... i also asked him why he won't let me take them... he says because I am unfit and that when I go there I will be unstable.... I feel that he is using the kids to get to me which is not fair to the kids... can't he let them live??

 

I don't see a reason why you can't however I would check with your Lawyer just to be on the safe side. Good luck.

 

AP:)

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LOL...physical custody goes to the mother no matter what state you are in. If a father fights for custody, no matter where he is, he WILL lose unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt the mother is unfit.

 

Fathers get the shaft, period.

 

 

 

 

And if he didn't sign it? I don't get it. Why "make" him sign a form? Why not just make it law and cut out the signing altogether. Why not completely tell the father "tought sh#t"?

 

 

 

 

Is he ordered to pay child support from a government that takes away his rights?

 

Don't have time now to go into all the ways that you're wrong on that but you ARE. Please check your facts. I just don't want anyone to think that the above is fact. It's not.

 

To the OP, speak to your lawyer and don't cave in. You can't let him control you any more.

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Don't have time now to go into all the ways that you're wrong on that but you ARE. Please check your facts. I just don't want anyone to think that the above is fact. It's not.

 

Oh there are exceptions, like when the mother is obviously proven unfit, but just look at the statistics. If the mother is not deemed unfit and wants custody and fights for custody against the father, the mother will win. If the mother is not unfit, and neither is the father, and both fight for custody, who do you think will win?

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If he's threatening you physically (e.g. "I'm gonna kick your a**"), then you need to talk to your lawyer about that and get a restraining order. If your lawyer says you have custody and rights...then go by that. Don't give in to his threats....AND keep yourself safe....AND focus on our kids, and their wellbeing, along with your own. And yes, if you can safely travel, just let him know, and go.

 

If you have any reason to believe it would NOT be safe, then get the restraining order and go.

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Oh there are exceptions, like when the mother is obviously proven unfit, but just look at the statistics. If the mother is not deemed unfit and wants custody and fights for custody against the father, the mother will win. If the mother is not unfit, and neither is the father, and both fight for custody, who do you think will win?

 

Nope, sorry. You're still wrong. Look up about joint custody. Also, dads now get sole custody all the time. I see it all the time.

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Nope, sorry. You're still wrong. Look up about joint custody. Also, dads now get sole custody all the time. I see it all the time.

 

I have joint custody, but I am still not the custodial parent and pay for the privelidge of not being able to see my kids but a few days a month.

 

And the dads that do get sole custody are the ones where the mothers sign off on it, or are deemed unfit.

 

If both parents are fit and they both fight for custody, by default, the mother will be awarded as the custodial parent....joint custody or not.

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what state do you live in twice shy? I had the good fortune to be in wisconsin, where the courts are acutally pretty fair. I also have joint custody of my daughter, and get to have her about 13 days a month, or 40 percent of the time, plus guarnteed vacation time and equal decision making power for school, doctors, everything. My ex is completely fit, and even makes more than me money-wise (but not by much) She is also married and has another kid by her current husband. THey have a dual income and a house, whereas I have a two bedroom apartment. And despite all that, the judge still defended my joint-custody. I didn't realize how lucky I was until I have heard the horror stories from other dads.

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what state do you live in twice shy?

 

Good old socialist Illinois.

 

 

I had the good fortune to be in wisconsin, where the courts are acutally pretty fair. I also have joint custody of my daughter, and get to have her about 13 days a month, or 40 percent of the time, plus guarnteed vacation time and equal decision making power for school, doctors, everything. My ex is completely fit, and even makes more than me money-wise (but not by much) She is also married and has another kid by her current husband. THey have a dual income and a house, whereas I have a two bedroom apartment. And despite all that, the judge still defended my joint-custody. I didn't realize how lucky I was until I have heard the horror stories from other dads.

 

And who is the custodial parent?

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what state do you live in twice shy? I had the good fortune to be in wisconsin, where the courts are acutally pretty fair. I also have joint custody of my daughter, and get to have her about 13 days a month, or 40 percent of the time, plus guarnteed vacation time and equal decision making power for school, doctors, everything. My ex is completely fit, and even makes more than me money-wise (but not by much) She is also married and has another kid by her current husband. THey have a dual income and a house, whereas I have a two bedroom apartment. And despite all that, the judge still defended my joint-custody. I didn't realize how lucky I was until I have heard the horror stories from other dads.

 

 

Joint custody isn't hard to get. Your luck is primarily in your ex's situation. She takes good care of your kid and is well situated in life. Count your blessings. When they're young, it's easier. The complications can start hitting down the line. I hope they don't for you.

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What kind of complications do you mean? Like, seriously. I want to know. Better to be prepared. Do you mean there could be complications down the line in keeping my joint custody?

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