Jump to content

Brother recently got engaged, but lingering issues affecting family


Recommended Posts

So my brother got engaged a few months ago and is planning to have the wedding in a few months. There are some family issues going on that will be tested as the wedding and his moving in with fiancee nears. At the risk of sounding like I'm berating him, I just want to provide context for advice.

 

He's in his late 30s and has lived with my parents his whole life. He met his fiancee on OLD. He has worked freelance from home for 10+ years, earning a fraction of the living he could easily be making in an office setting. He has six figures' worth of debt from some bad credit usage. My mom is basically the one applying for jobs for him so he has a better situation once he's married and moved in with his fiancee. She also still cooks and does his laundry. He also bought an expensive engagement ring on credit.

 

With all that said, his fiancee knows most of this and accepts his situation. But the tough part is that my parents feel obligated to help with his debt and with the wedding. My brother is a good person, I love him and feel he's been my best friend throughout life, just has made some bad financial decisions and has lacked the confidence to cut the umbilical cord and really become an adult.

 

What I'm pissed about is how he doesn't take charge of his job search and leaves my mom with all that stress. With the wedding only a few months away, there is so much unsettled about how he will be a provider and contributor to his new household. How will be pay off his debt and contribute to shared bills going forward, with his current freelance job?

 

It makes me wonder if he just thinks my parents will keep bailing him out, while putting financial stress on their own situation. I don't want to get involved financially or emotionally, it's his situation to deal with at this point. I just don't want to see my parents get sucked into a bad situation of their own as a result either.

 

I'm happy that my brother is moving forward in a way, but it doesn't sit right how he's going about it. Any advice on how I can help without letting myself get dragged into the situation?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm happy that my brother is moving forward in a way, but it doesn't sit right how he's going about it. Any advice on how I can help without letting myself get dragged into the situation?

 

Not your battle or place to intervene - unless asked for advice or help. Everyone involved is an adult and fully capable of making their own decisions, Mom included.

 

Does it seem like a healthy dynamic? No, but many families operate under similarly dysfunctional conditions. Buy yourself a copy of the Serenity Prayer (grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference) and, for his wedding present, a book on financial planning...

 

Mr. Lucky

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just stay out of it. If your mother wants to enable him, that is her choice. Whether he sinks or swims is on him not you.

 

It's hard. I am a fixer but sometimes you can't help people who won't help themselves.

 

There doesn't have to be drama. You just sit there & watch, keeping your opinions to yourself. Pop popcorn if you like because this will end in a fiery crash that you see coming but nobody else seems worried about. Just don't offer your wallet when it all implodes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a tough one.

 

 

 

Are your parents retired?

 

 

 

I could not stand by and watch my mother being taken advantage of and be drained out of her money, possibly her saving for her retirement?

 

 

I would have a conversation with my mother and I would simply tell her it's time she let him grow up and to be extremely careful to not put herself in a difficult financial situation because of him because when the going gets tough later she won't be able to count on him as he'll probably be financially irresponsible all of his life.

 

 

 

If your mother exhaust all of her financial resources on him you're the one that will have to come forward and help her so yes...you do have an interest in what is happening now.

 

 

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy that my brother is moving forward in a way, but it doesn't sit right how he's going about it. Any advice on how I can help without letting myself get dragged into the situation?

 

So how do you feel about attending the wedding? Unless you are going just for the cake, won’t your attendance indicate your willingness to support and nurture their marriage?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

Yes, my parents are both retired. I learned that they have essentially been helping to pay off his credit cards every month already. This has put them in a tight spot to make ends meet with the monthly bills (house, utilities, etc.) on top of that.

 

I have had conversations with my parents about having to let my brother sink or swim, to light some urgency under his butt. But my mom is a tiger mom and has a hard time letting go even now.

 

It pains me because I end up getting the brunt of my mom's nagging about saving, advancing in my career, having a good relationship, etc. So it's like my mom projects her frustrations over my brother onto my life, and it sucks.

 

I'll be at the wedding no doubt, but as Gaeta said my fear is that my parents will end up in a bad financial situation as well. I wouldn't just stand by and let them get like that, so it's a hard spot for me. I need to make sure they will end up okay and not tied to supporting him in the background forever.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I need to make sure they will end up okay and not tied to supporting him in the background forever.

 

How? Again, short of court order or charges like elder exploitation, you can't stop someone from giving money to whomever or whatever they want.

 

Perhaps they have their own reasons for supporting him...

 

Mr. Lucky

Link to post
Share on other sites
amaysngrace

If you don’t want to be dragged into it then drag yourself out of it.

 

If your parents are retired and are still helping him then obviously they’re able to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
How? Again, short of court order or charges like elder exploitation, you can't stop someone from giving money to whomever or whatever they want.

 

Perhaps they have their own reasons for supporting him...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

When I've had conversations with them, it's mainly so they don't see him fail financially. It's mainly frustrating because I'm their outlet for their frustrations about having to help him, so it's a weird dynamic for sure.

 

I just worry for my parents and how they're stressing emotionally and financially when they should be enjoying retired life.

 

If your parents are retired and are still helping him then obviously they’re able to.

 

At the end of the day, they probably won't stop until he's on his own feet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you spoken to your brother concerning the extra financial stress he's imposing on your parents? Would you clarify when he gets married are him and his wife moving in with your parents?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just worry for my parents and how they're stressing emotionally and financially when they should be enjoying retired life.

 

I once had a movie version of my retirement life It hasn't turned out the way I imagined it would. Think of all the grandparents now saddled with their children's children. They probably feel the same. Your parents are responsible people and that forces them to sacrifice their own happiness for others.

 

Your only options are to walk or support them and as the child of responsible parents, I think I know which you will choose.

Link to post
Share on other sites
amaysngrace
At the end of the day, they probably won't stop until he's on his own feet.

 

Which is fair imo. Maybe all the money in the world dulls in comparison to him finally getting out of the house.

 

It may make them gladly spend it to watch that happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's nothing you can do.

 

DH & I shelter his mom who is bad with money but keeps giving money she doesn't have to other financially irresponsible family members, who actually are in better shape then she is.

 

Assume you will have to prop mom & dad up & go from there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point in time, there's really nothing you can do about it. It isn't your responsibility, or your parents. But come sooner or later, he's going to have to learn to be independent and do things for himself without someone else taking care of him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Have you spoken to your brother concerning the extra financial stress he's imposing on your parents? Would you clarify when he gets married are him and his wife moving in with your parents?

 

I haven't talked just me and him. I didn't want to get involved in those discussions specifically, I usually talk to my parents outside of my brother being there.

He's moving into his fiancee's apartment after they get married. So it's an even more pressing issue since he will have to pay his half on everything. Or, more accurately for the near-term, my parents will either be giving him money or paying off his debts while he uses his freelance income to do so.

 

Which is fair imo. Maybe all the money in the world dulls in comparison to him finally getting out of the house.

 

It may make them gladly spend it to watch that happen.

 

At this point it seems like it is what it is in that regard.

 

Assume you will have to prop mom & dad up & go from there.

 

That's what I'm trying to prepare myself for. Which sucks because I feel I'm doing well, only to potentially get stuck with the financial consequences of my brother's actions/habits.

 

Probably just venting now, but I can't get over the fact that my brother is basically not doing any of the work and letting my parents work their butts off to get him a job, improve his self-confidence through a career coach, and cut up his cards and pay his debts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't get over the fact that my brother is basically not doing any of the work and letting my parents work their butts off to get him a job, improve his self-confidence through a career coach, and cut up his cards and pay his debts.

 

He sounds dreadful. The only think that "saved" us is that the house we bought so mom has a place to live is a good investment for our retirement. It has appreciate since we bought it because the real estate market is on the rise.

 

Think long term like that.

 

For now, express worry occasional to your parents. Talk to them about the concepts of tough love & being an enabler. Do not nag.

 

One of the ways I got DH's siblings to stop sucking as much money out of mom was I told them how little she actually had. They thought she was far more flush then she was. Now his sister actually sends the mom gift cards to the grocery store every once in a while. Maybe if you let it be known through dollars & cents how much of a drain dear brother is (after the wedding of course), he will stop. He might not, but at least you tried.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One of the ways I got DH's siblings to stop sucking as much money out of mom was I told them how little she actually had.

 

It's always difficult for me accept how mercenary relatives can be all under the cloak of a loving family.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to speak to your brother about this.

 

He is not 18, he is a grown adult and needs to appreciate that his parents are not made of money and are not a bank.

His fiancee may not be too worried either if she also sees the parents as a

bottomless pit of cash.

 

They both need a wake up call before the wedding.

 

No point in talking to parents, parents will often give and give and give to needy offspring and if he is the type to keep taking, then both are happy...

As YOU will be left to pick up the pieces the sooner you put a stop to this the better.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably just venting now, but I can't get over the fact that my brother is basically not doing any of the work and letting my parents work their butts off to get him a job, improve his self-confidence through a career coach, and cut up his cards and pay his debts.

 

Finacial responsibiliy doesn't come over night. Why all of you think once this debt is paid he won't accumulate more? Cutting up his cards is the first step but with the level of interests on credit cards your parents will need the rest of their life to pay that debt off (didn't you say it's in the 6 digits). Your brother should take a debt-consolidation loan at a much lower rate. If your parents want to help, at least they won't be spending all of their money on interests!

 

 

.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon

I get your anguish ... and you were kind. An additional reason to be upset is that you don't get the support (I'm betting) that your brother gets. But this is not uncommon. Parents can spend more money--sometimes a lot more--on the low-functioning adult child than they do on the high-functioning child.

 

Parents are in a devil of a dilemma when they have a low-functioning, dependent, immature adult child. Often their instinct is to protect because they really don't believe the adult child can take care of himself. Or they have the fantasy that oh ... I'll help him this time and then ... he'll be better off ... and one day ... he'll be fine.

 

I wouldn't say your brother exploiting your mom or your parents. Your parents are adults and there is enough discussion in the culture for them to realize that they are not required to do all that they are doing ... and that all that they're doing may in fact be discouraging your brother's independence. Your parents need to learn to set boundaries and to think really precisely about a long-term strategy to encourage your brother's independence.

 

On the other hand, it's also likely that your brother is far more immature and low-functioning--and always has been!--than you think he is ... and that without their support, he might well be on the streets. You probably overestimate how capable your brother is. It's so easy for siblings to be wildly in denial and to think that a brother or sister is just one or two thoughts away from changing their lives.

 

Do you know if your brother feels guilty for all the support he gets? Or feels bad about it? If he doesn't, I hate to say this ... then he's pretty lost. It's amazing he's found someone who will marry him. Is his wife-to-be low functioning? Immature? ... Socially lost? It's astonishing that he's found a marriage partner who is aware of his situation. That woman also needs help--she's clearly lost.

 

Really there is little you can do ... these are adults here. To get hypothetical with an exaggerated scenario. Let's say somehow you were able to block or set limits on the amount of help/money your parents give your brother. And let's say your brother magically changed and committed to not asking for or receiving money from your folks. One, your folks would be furious at you. And two, they would probably do everything they could to get around your block and they'd end up at the same place they're at now.

 

There are, sad to say, deep problems in your family, and not just with your brother. And I say that ... knowing that your folks are probably wonderful people.

 

The one light of hope I can see is if your dad is less into helping your brother than your mom. That would be a start.

Edited by Lotsgoingon
Link to post
Share on other sites
devilish innocent

You say you don't want to get dragged into this situation, but it sounds like you already are dragged into it. If you really don't want to be involved in this, then you need to straight up tell your parents, "This is between you and him. I don't want to hear about it anymore." Then any time they try to bring this up again, you change the subject.

 

If you are going to be involved, I think you're going about this the wrong way. You say you've talked to your parents about letting your brother sink or swim. Yet, your entire first post is about what he is doing to your parents, as though this is something they have to help him with. Nobody is forcing your mom to send out job applications for your brother. It is kind of ridiculous that she is doing so. I suspect your parents vent their frustrations about your brother to you instead of confronting him directly. Then you commiserate with them behind his back. You all just talk about all the things he's doing wrong, even though neither you nor your parents have direct control over your brother's behavior. If you think this is an issue between him and your parents, then you need to tell your parents, "Tell these things to him. Not to me." If your concerned about how this will effect your own finances down the line, then talk to your brother directly. Right now, you're only enabling parents to keep supporting him. They know any time the situation is really bothering them, they can vent about it to you and have an outlet for their feelings. Meanwhile, you're getting angry because you have a lot of things you want to say to your brother but don't feel you can. This is not a healthy dynamic for anyone involved.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Maybe if you let it be known through dollars & cents how much of a drain dear brother is (after the wedding of course), he will stop. He might not, but at least you tried.

 

I talked to them yesterday and reiterated this. As someone said before, it became clear that the amount doesn't matter - they care more about seeing him gain his independence than the financial impact on themselves.

 

His fiancee may not be too worried either if she also sees the parents as a bottomless pit of cash.

 

I hadn't thought of this before, but it would make so much more sense why my brother's fiancee is okay with his situation. Sort of like she wouldn't have to bear the debts or the financial mistakes because she knows my parents would help.

 

My original thought was just that they are both near 40 and mainly driven by fear of not finding someone else. Apparently she was abused in a past, short-lived marriage, so there is other baggage there as well.

 

Do you know if your brother feels guilty for all the support he gets? Or feels bad about it? If he doesn't, I hate to say this ... then he's pretty lost. It's amazing he's found someone who will marry him. Is his wife-to-be low functioning? Immature? ... Socially lost? It's astonishing that he's found a marriage partner who is aware of his situation. That woman also needs help--she's clearly lost.

 

I don't think he has any guilt at all, at least not that I see. He is very nonchalant about the level of debt he has, which worries me that there is nothing sticking in his brain about long-term change. "Yeah it's $X still" and just shrugs his shoulders. It seems his only focus is making sure his fiancee is happy with him. And they do seem happy together.

 

His fiancee is genuinely nice and does well for herself - has her own place, good finances and a good job - but in a way she's a bit weird too. As I mentioned, she had issues from a past marriage, and doesn't have much of a social circle (and neither does my brother). For context, the wedding will be a ceremony/reception in one with only a dozen or so family members in total.

 

At this point, I'm past my initial emotions and staying out of it. Nothing I say or do will change my parents' or brother's behavior. I'm still happy that my brother found someone to share life with, but I am also prepared for any fallout on his and/or my parents' end. At the end of the day, they are still family and I will be there for them. But I don't want to let this keep adding stress to my daily life.

 

Thanks all for the comments.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
ChatroomHero

 

At this point, I'm past my initial emotions and staying out of it. Nothing I say or do will change my parents' or brother's behavior. I'm still happy that my brother found someone to share life with, but I am also prepared for any fallout on his and/or my parents' end. At the end of the day, they are still family and I will be there for them. But I don't want to let this keep adding stress to my daily life.

 

Thanks all for the comments.

 

It kind of sounds like as much as you see they are enabling him, maybe you are enabling your parents. I think you can tell them that you don't want to be their sounding board for their frustrations about him. If they are going to continue to give them money, tell them it is only fair that they don't complain about it too you.

 

I'd probably point out that if they were being honest and wanted to help him become independent, they literally could cut off all funding tomorrow and he would be completely independent. If their ultimate goal is him becoming independent, the absolute answer that makes that happen tomorrow is they cut off the money, boom, success!

 

People are resilient. I bet if they cut him off tomorrow, he would have a job in a couple of weeks. People find a way, but usually only when there is no other alternative they can accept. He can do nothing and get by and live happily with debt because he has a fall back. Take that away and immediately his first thought will be, "I have to address this debt. D-Day has finally come, I actually have to take action". So despite your parents best intentions, they are not being honest. They don't want him to be independent that bad. They don't really want him to become his own man and THEY don't believe he can.

 

I had a roommate in the past who wouldn't wash dishes and let his pile up in the sink for days. After a while, I told him I better not see him using any dishes when I am around because I will grab it from him and throw it up against the wall and bill him for the dish...and I was serious. Once I made it clear the consequences and what I expected, every dish they used was washed right after they used it and he bought a couple of bowls to eat out of and if he left them somewhere, he left them in his room. Either way I didn't have to deal with it any more. If I had just kept washing the dishes and making excuses for him, nothing would have changed.

 

Honestly, it sounds like your parents need to either put up or shut up. Not being harsh, but they either need to show they are serious or never complain about it again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry you are in this situation and have to watch this happening. It must be very frustrating and upsetting.

 

I suspect your parents are doing their best to get his finances under control and to get him into a position where he can move forward and start to become independent. I would think they are desperate to feel he can cope but seriously doubt that he could. He does sound lacking in some ways or at least blind to some issues.

 

I am puzzled by his fiancee's acceptance of the situation. If she is successful and financially astute, then I can only think she must be missing some important information here. She must realise that if they get married, she may be jointly liable for THEIR debts? If she doesn't, then it might be worth informing her, as long as you check up to see what the legal position is re marriage and debt in your country. I cannot imagine that a financially capable young woman would walk into this situation if she had all the facts.

 

I know of someone who was rather irresponsible with money and their parents were incredibly worried. This person has Asperger's so is oblivious to how the parents felt about the whole thing, though they did their best to make it clear. The parents had to set in place ways of managing money and to teach their 'child' what to do. He wasn't too worried about money and I can see how the whole issue put this family under strain. As far as I know, the lessons have helped and, while the 'child' is still pretty uncaring about money, he has rules he follows which helps.

 

Asperger's can make a difference to how people feel about things like money. This person was profligate with money and did not care if they got into debt. One of my offspring, on the other hand, who also has Asperger's, is more OCD about money, keeping careful track of it and has rules about what they will spend on. None of this is the parents' fault; they are often in a position of trying to minimise harm. Nor should siblings be dragged into this kind of situation. I sympathise with you because this is a difficult situation for all concerned. Your parents need to have rules and enforce them with an iron hand until your brother absorbs the rules and they become second nature.

Edited by spiderowl
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
I am puzzled by his fiancee's acceptance of the situation. If she is successful and financially astute, then I can only think she must be missing some important information here. She must realise that if they get married, she may be jointly liable for THEIR debts? If she doesn't, then it might be worth informing her, as long as you check up to see what the legal position is re marriage and debt in your country. I cannot imagine that a financially capable young woman would walk into this situation if she had all the facts.

 

She does know the situation with the debt and all. I'm wondering if it's really that her age is driving her willingness to accept things.

 

Who knows, maybe she is willing to work with him while he fixes things for the sake of being married and not alone.

 

Also, in community property states (where we are) the spouse wouldn't be liable for debts that were incurred prior to the marriage.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...