hate between my wife and my parents

[famtroubles]

Dear Reader,

 

I am so sorry that this post is so long but there is a lot of back story. If you have the time please read and please offer some advice. Maybe you can help me shed my pain.

 

I usually don't visit forums like this, but I have been troubled by an issue for the past 2 years and it has been weighing heavy on me for about two years. Most of the time I can bottle it up inside and go on with my life as if nothing is the matter but every once in a while the pain becomes almost unbearable.

 

I have been with my girlfriend for nearly 3 years. She is my wife in every respect except for a certificate and that only because we have some fundamental problems with the institution of marriage as defined in this country.

 

We met in college and moved in together only a few months later after I lost my apartment (there was structural damage to the building and it was deemed unsafe). I am atheist, while my parents are "devout" Catholics. I say devout in parenthesis because while they attend church every weekend, and have no doubt about the existence of a god and his supremacy, like many others they struggle with the ideas of forgiveness, acceptance, true love, and withholding judgment which to me are the actual important parts of Christianity (maybe you can see why I veered away from religion).

 

I made the tragic mistake (or maybe the correct assumption) that they simply could not handle the fact that I do not believe in God and that I am living with a woman out of wedlock so I kept both of these a secret from them. I kept my beliefs secret after seeing how they reacted to my small testing conversations with them on the subject. I kept the relationship secret not only because I knew they considered it sin, but also because when I first showed my mother a picture of my girlfriend (we were only dating for a few weeks then), without even meeting her she told me that she was not the one.

 

Finally, after about a year of living together and through my girlfriend's persuasion, I came clean with them. My gf convinced me to tell them the truth about everything since after all it is supposed to be better to be truthful about everything.

 

This is where everything went awry. My parents freaked out completely. They claimed my gf seduced me, that she is the reason I "lost my faith", which is completely untrue since if anything, I was the one that drove her further from hers. I secured a well paying job as an engineer for after graduation and my gf was to move out of state with me. Of course, my parents claimed that she was mooching off of me and just wanted a free ride. They did not want to listen to my pleas, my explanations of how we love each other, and how everything we do is through mutual agreement. They refused to accept that my actions were my own and blamed her for everything.

 

Having a very open relationship, I discussed all these things with my gf and for a time she was understanding of the fact that they were reacting that way because according to their religion they failed as parents to bring me up in the faith.

 

About a month later, my sister came out for a week long visit. For the first few days everything was fine. However one day while walking around the city, my gf and I got into a fairly big fight. This fight was completely my fault. Let me add that at this point we had all been drinking a little on the train ride to the city. My sister was there and she got in the middle, which she absolutely should not have done. My gf and I would have worked things out. There was name calling and at a certain point my sister also told my gf to "stop mooching off of me." My gf responded along the lines of "stop being a spoiled little brat" and that's when my sister started pulling my gf's hair. Yes this happened in real life. These mid-20s-collge-educated-mostly-well-behaved women were pulling hair. My gf, in her own defense swung and gave my sister a well deserved (in my opinion) black eye.

 

Then my parents got involved, via phone. More nasty name calling, being judgmental, refusal to believe that the physical fighting was actually started by my sister. After the fight, my gf refused to allow my sister stay in our apartment and she had to stay in a hotel for the night then take a cab to the airport. The drama continued for weeks as my parents told me how much of an idiot I was for being with the woman I love, how they can't believe I have turned against them, etc. My sister did not speak to me for months.

 

From then on, my gf refuses to have anything to do with my parents. She does not want to hear anything about them, and definitely refuses to welcome them into our home. She gets incredibly mad when I tell her things like "my mother wishes you a Happy Birthday." She tells me outright that she HATES my family with all her heart, and I cannot blame her for any of this.

 

What my parents did was terrible, yet they are my parents and we had gone through a lot. We moved here from overseas when I was very lilttle and my parents sacrificed so much to make my sisters' and my lives what they are today. They are simply, not-so-well-educated people, who have some terribly flawed notions, which they were taught were right from their births. They both come from conservatives homes. This is why I forgave them and I still love them.

 

I know that everything aside, not seeing me, and not being more in my life hurts my mother incredibly. On many occasions she has expressed her wish to visit me yet this is not possible with my wife.

 

The struggle tears me up inside. On the one had I know distancing my family is causing them great pain and it hurts me to know that I am the cause of it. On the other hand I cannot think of a worse fate than having to split up with my wife. I simply do not know what to do.

 

I've tried counseling for a few sessions but that did not help and I cannot really afford anymore. I even took my gf to one session but she refused to discuss the subject. Maybe it was too soon but she does not want to consider going now. When I tell her how I feel she often responds with anger. When I tell her that I just want her to be able to stand my parents presence and all she has to do is put on a fake smile and then she can go right back to hating she tells me she cannot do that. I have told her that if she truly loves me then she should be willing to work with me a little yet her response is usually that if I truly loved her I wouldn't ask her to.

 

I really do not know what to do. I am torn between the love for my wife and the love for my family.

[blue.iris]

It could very well be insecurity on your girlfriend's part. You are always going to be attached to your family by blood. Even though you guys are in a strong relationship right now, you are not attached to your girlfriend in any way. For example, if something were to happen to you and you were in the ER, your family would get preferential treatment over your girlfriend.

 

Have you considered getting a civil union/common law arrangement if you are sure you don't want to get married?

[famtroubles]

Thank you for your response. There very well may be insecurity. Furthermore, my gf also has a fairly stubborn personality. Once she makes a decision it is very hard to convince her otherwise. However, I do think that her resentment of my parents is justified (though I don't advocate hatred of anyone this is something that most humans can't avoid). In terms of attachment we do live together, far, far away from either of our families, all our bank accounts, credit cards are joint, she is the primary beneficiary of my life insurance, covered by my health insurance, we jointly own a single car (as well as most of our other property), she is listed as my primary emergency contact everywhere, have 5 cats (by accident) , etc.

 

I have told her on multiple occasions that I do not care whether she continues to hate them or not. I can deal with that. All I want is for both sides to be able to stand each other on the occasions where they may need to be in the same place at the same time. She claims that this will never be possible.

 

We don't want to consider any sort of legal union until the laws concerning these are equal for all.

[donnamaybe]

Insecurity? Knowing that your parents AND your sister think she's "mooching off you" and that makes her uncomfortable to be around them means she's insecure? The fact that your sister physically assaulted her and she didn't like it means she's insecure? Wow!

 

Your entire family needs to apologize to your girl and now. They should each write a letter of apology to her and be sincere. If they cannot do that, then you should stick by your girl until they come around. If you do not do this, you will be allowing your family to CHOOSE YOUR GIRL FOR YOU because she WILL leave you. I would NEVER put up with that kind of treatment, and by you not standing up to your family you are, in essence, allowing it to happen. If I were her, I would feel sooo far down on your priority list and it would hurt me very, very deeply. If you love her, you will handle this like a man.

[blue.iris]

I really feel for you, it's quite a predicament. Having read your relationship details, I take back the insecurity thing.

 

I can understand the family thing--even though you completely disagree with them, they are your family and have otherwise been there for you. I had a friend in the same situation, but her parents ultimately accepted her boyfriend once they got married and had a baby. It seems no amount of cultural/religious differences can keep grandparents from their grandchildren. Not suggesting you do the same though!!!

 

Do your parents have any family friends from the same cultural background who are slightly more liberal? Could you sort of mediate through them and get your parents to understand that if they want a relationship with your girlfriend and be there in your life, they should at least start by apologizing?

[famtroubles]

@donnamaybe Your sarcasm, berating me, and jumping to conclusions really doesn't help the situation.

 

@blue.iris When you said "insecurity" I took that to mean that she feels like I'm not behind her all the way. This is why I said there may be insecurity because I completely understand why she would fee like that. I probably would too if I was in the same situation as her.

 

I completely believe that my parents should apologize and my sister even more so. However, my parents are convinced they did nothing wrong. After the incident with the physical assault my sister convinced them that it was my girlfriend that was at fault and not her. Of course they would chose to believe their daughter over a stranger. My sister is convinced that she did nothing wrong since she feels she was trying to protect me when I was upset during the argument that sparked it all. I really have nobody but myself to blame for all of this.

 

To answer your question about the friends or family that my parents might have, the answer simply is NO. I am not close to any of their friends and they really are not much different. The only more "liberal" family members are back in Poland and I do not really keep in touch with them. I wouldn't want to throw this on anyone in either case.

 

I have made sure to show my parents how much this upsets me and that my gf comes first. As an example, I did not visit them over Christmas (a holiday extremely important to them and not to me) and made sure they knew the reason why. After that I think they realized that it became a choice between keeping or losing their son so they became a little more open. After Christmas my mother told me she wishes that we would both visit. Hindsight is 20/20. I am inclined to think she only extended this invitation because she wants me to be there.

 

I really do not know how I would go about getting my family to apologize to my gf. I don't know if they would, and even if they would I really don't think my girlfriend would ever accept it. I know she wouldn't talk to them over the phone (there's a language barrier there too) and I don't think me giving her e-mail address to them would go over well.

 

I just don't see any wiggle room here for either side to make a step towards just being OK and I don't know how to go about being an intermediate. If I try to push my parents and their apology is rejected then I risk having them resent that. If I try to push my girlfriend I risk upsetting and angering her even more.

[blue.iris]

If you don't mind my asking, what cultural background is your girlfriend from?

[sally4sara]

Well it sounds like a stale mate.

I mean, in all fairness, you can't expect your GF to welcome people into the home she shares with you when you cannot say they won't treat her badly while they are there. And if this happened, it certainly won't improve the situation.

 

But your GF isn't helping the situation either. Name calling and flying off the handle isn't the best way to approach cultural differences.

 

I think you're going to have to decide what kind of behavior you want to see out of all involved and clearly define it to each party. If one steps out of this, they (any of them) are showing they have more regard for the feuding than they have for you and your feelings. At this point, none, your family or your GF are acting in a manner that says they respect you more than the fight. It will have to be up to you as to what you would do with someone who cannot respect your feelings and the intelligence behind squashing this unproductive squabble. Try a dinner at a public place before you try a meeting in your home.

[aj845]

I guess you know both side and need to bring closer. It seems impossible but can be done.

[linwood]

I`ll never understand why people will take crap from their families they`d never take from anyone else.

 

Blood is not thicker than water and you CAN choose your family.

 

I suggest you simply stop communicating with them until they start acting in a manner that appears rational.

 

Go NC with the family, I did ten years ago and my life has been so wonderfully free of bull**** it`s amazing.

[donnamaybe]

@donnamaybe Your sarcasm, berating me, and jumping to conclusions really doesn't help the situation.

 

Sarcasm? Didn't intend any. It was incredulity on my part that someone would blame your girl's supposed "insecurity" for the way she feels after the treatment by your family.

 

Berating you? Where did I do that? And what conclusions did I jump to? I simply went by your opening post and stated what I felt. You are free to disagree.

 

I can see how this is going to play out by your reaction to what I had to say. I am angry for your girl and what she has had to go through for simply being with you. For some reason, it doesn't make you angry at your family. I feel sad for her.

[stillafool]

I completely believe that my parents should apologize and my sister even more so. However, my parents are convinced they did nothing wrong. After the incident with the physical assault my sister convinced them that it was my girlfriend that was at fault and not her. Of course they would chose to believe their daughter over a stranger. My sister is convinced that she did nothing wrong since she feels she was trying to protect me when I was upset during the argument that sparked it all. I really have nobody but myself to blame for all of this.

 

Why haven't you told your parents in front of your sister what really happened? Then they will know your gf is telling the truth.

 

 

 

I am inclined to think she only extended this invitation because she wants me to be there.

 

Of course that is the only reason.

 

 

I really do not know how I would go about getting my family to apologize to my gf.

 

 

You ask them to apologize to her to try to heal the relationship.

 

I don't know if they would, and even if they would I really don't think my girlfriend would ever accept it.

 

Ask your gf if they apologized to her can they visit and try to heal the relationship.

 

I just don't see any wiggle room here for either side to make a step towards just being OK and I don't know how to go about being an intermediate. If I try to push my parents and their apology is rejected then I risk having them resent that. If I try to push my girlfriend I risk upsetting and angering her even more.

 

 

Look, man up! Not everyone is going to be happy. If you want the relationship to heal between all of them then you have to communicate and say some things that may not make all of them happy. It's time to grow up. If you can't do that then visit your parents and sister alone. You do not have to include your wife if she doesn't want to be there but still see your family if you love them.

[stillafool]

Oh, BTW, did your mom really wish your gf a happy birthday or did you make that up? I have a hard time believing your mom would do that.

[2sure]

I am the first one to say that your family and you have to deal with the issue that this is the partner YOU have chosen.

 

Everyone needs to apologize here. YOU mostly. For hiding the truth from your family and putting your gf in a bad light from the get go.

 

Your sister & gf need to apologize to each other . Period.

 

The biggest thing here that concerns me is your gf saying she HATES your family. I dont like people who HATE. I mean, she cannot love them, she can keep her distance from them, she can be indifferent & disinterested, she can not like them....but HATE??

 

Your parents are probably finding some hope in the fact that your are not married, regardless of your reasons.

[donnamaybe]

The biggest thing here that concerns me is your gf saying she HATES your family.

 

She may feel "hate" right now but not REALLY hate them. I'm not so sure I wouldn't "hate" people who called me a moocher and denigrated me at nearly every turn. And then to have the sister call me that to my face and then attack me physically? I have to say that would evoke VERY strong feelings in me, and none of them good.

[carhill]

OP, you're an adult man. Make your choice and announce it. Your family bore you and raised you. That isn't a life sentence of penal labor. You owe them nothing, just as your children will owe you nothing. Anything else is just selfishness. Stand by your de-facto wife and insist on equitable and fair treatment for her, and/or disconnect those (anyone) who would disrespect her and your union. If you don't, she will leave you. Hope you like being alone

[famtroubles]

@blue.iris Her mother was born in South America and moved here in her late teens. Her father is Nth generation American (a mix of various European).

[famtroubles]

Well it sounds like a stale mate.

I mean, in all fairness, you can't expect your GF to welcome people into the home she shares with you when you cannot say they won't treat her badly while they are there. And if this happened, it certainly won't improve the situation.

 

But your GF isn't helping the situation either. Name calling and flying off the handle isn't the best way to approach cultural differences.

 

I think you're going to have to decide what kind of behavior you want to see out of all involved and clearly define it to each party. If one steps out of this, they (any of them) are showing they have more regard for the feuding than they have for you and your feelings. At this point, none, your family or your GF are acting in a manner that says they respect you more than the fight. It will have to be up to you as to what you would do with someone who cannot respect your feelings and the intelligence behind squashing this unproductive squabble. Try a dinner at a public place before you try a meeting in your home.

@sally4sara The public place would be a bit difficult as my parents and we are over a thousand miles apart. I'm not sure my girlfriend would go for such a meeting in either case.

[famtroubles]

Sarcasm? Didn't intend any. It was incredulity on my part that someone would blame your girl's supposed "insecurity" for the way she feels after the treatment by your family.

 

Berating you? Where did I do that? And what conclusions did I jump to? I simply went by your opening post and stated what I felt. You are free to disagree.

 

I can see how this is going to play out by your reaction to what I had to say. I am angry for your girl and what she has had to go through for simply being with you. For some reason, it doesn't make you angry at your family. I feel sad for her.

Since I was a kid I could never really feel anger at anyone for more than a few minutes. You could literally stab me in the gut and as long as I got out of it alive I would hold no hard feelings.

 

I am however very disappointed in my parents and they know this. I have made it clear to them. Ceasing communication with them would probably not help anything. I have no idea how they would react to my girlfriend right now as bringing both parties together, as I mentioned, is impossible at the moment.

 

You keep stressing that my girlfriend is in the right here and I fully agree with that. I cannot blame her for how she feels as the feelings are completely justified. I'm surprised she didn't file charges against my sister as the whole incident was most likely caught on security cameras which were in the area.

[famtroubles]

Oh, BTW, did your mom really wish your gf a happy birthday or did you make that up? I have a hard time believing your mom would do that.

Yes, she really did. I'm not making anything up here. I am seeking honest advice and I cannot expect to get that if I am not being honest.

 

Now just to be clear, my mother did not say Happy Brithday directly, because as I said there is not a possibility of getting them to talk to each other. My mother told me on the phone.

 

When I passed the wishes on to my girlfriend she got angry (same was the case last year). It seems that she feels any such wishes are just a facade my mother is putting up which may or may not be the case.

[famtroubles]

I am the first one to say that your family and you have to deal with the issue that this is the partner YOU have chosen.

 

Everyone needs to apologize here. YOU mostly. For hiding the truth from your family and putting your gf in a bad light from the get go.

 

Your sister & gf need to apologize to each other . Period.

 

The biggest thing here that concerns me is your gf saying she HATES your family. I dont like people who HATE. I mean, she cannot love them, she can keep her distance from them, she can be indifferent & disinterested, she can not like them....but HATE??

 

Your parents are probably finding some hope in the fact that your are not married, regardless of your reasons.

I have apologized for hiding the truth from my parents. They however seemed to be more concerned about the fact that I had no intention to change anything rather than about the fact that I apologized.

 

As for HATE, it is a strong word which conveys anger towards and strong dislike of another person. In her case I think the word is quite appropriate as my parents have indeed hurt her deeply.

[famtroubles]

Sarcasm? Didn't intend any. It was incredulity on my part that someone would blame your girl's supposed "insecurity" for the way she feels after the treatment by your family.

 

Berating you? Where did I do that? And what conclusions did I jump to? I simply went by your opening post and stated what I felt. You are free to disagree.

 

I can see how this is going to play out by your reaction to what I had to say. I am angry for your girl and what she has had to go through for simply being with you. For some reason, it doesn't make you angry at your family. I feel sad for her.

I'm sorry, your initial comment seemed very aggressive.

[famtroubles]

I guess you know both side and need to bring closer. It seems impossible but can be done.

I really do hope so.

[donnamaybe]

I really do hope so.

 

I think you can do it, but it is going to take honesty and work on your part AND your girl's. At least you agree she was wronged. Make sure she knows you feel that way. Also make sure she is put first. She MUST be put first, especially right now.

[famtroubles]

I`ll never understand why people will take crap from their families they`d never take from anyone else.

 

Blood is not thicker than water and you CAN choose your family.

 

I suggest you simply stop communicating with them until they start acting in a manner that appears rational.

 

Go NC with the family, I did ten years ago and my life has been so wonderfully free of bull**** it`s amazing.

I agree with you. Just because they gave me birth does not automatically give them permission to interfere with my life (especially as an adult). I don't think it matters who you are but there is no such thing as automatic respect. Respect has to be earned.

 

However, there is a lot of history there with my parents. They really did sacrifice an incredible amount when my sister and I were growing up to make sure that we were very well taken care of and because of this I cannot break ties with them. Event this entire situation arose because in their minds they somehow believed that I was being hurt. Even though I explained time and time again that everything I was doing was because I wanted to and any mistakes I would make along the way were mine to make they just thought they knew better.

 

They had always refused to see the bad in me. When I got in trouble with my friends, it was my friends fault. When I started smoking, it was my friend that coerced me into it. When I stopped following their religion, there was somebody else to blame. It was always more my mother than my father (he always just fell in line). Maybe it was her messed up childhood, maybe something else.