Prevalence of 50-50 custody

[Striver]

People have mentioned that it is "easy" to get 50-50 nowadays. Thought I would review my experience and if I made any mistakes.

 

I have 6-8 or three nights a week. Schedule is a little goofy, as I have one weekend, and also a Friday night and two other workdays. Ex set up the schedule, I was just trying to make a deal.

 

Ex lowballed me on the initial placement offer, with only 2 overnights out of 14 days. I had never been divorced before, so knew nothing of the system. My state has a "soft" guideline of having each parent have as much time as possible. My opinion that 50-50 should be the starting point, but it is not.

 

I had to go to mediation to get the six nights. The ex backed down after the female mediator took my side of things. At that point it was an argument between 6 overnights and 5 for me out of 14.

 

After I had gone from 50-50 to 6-8, I asked my lawyer what the percentages were of decisions when placement was in dispute. He said 60% 50-50, 20% 6-8, 20% 5-9. Everyone got at least 5-9, in other words. I really wish he would have been more aggressive, come out and given me more guidance. I might have made better decisions.

 

The ex has remarried to the man she left me for. She remains a SAHM. I have three kids, so losing the extra night costs me about $5K a year. I had my kids older, so I'll be paying support until I retire.

 

Should I have gotten a better deal? Should I try to re-open and go for 50-50? Ex usually treats me fairly nicely now and feels guilty about her actions, as well she should. Perhaps she'd give me a break, perhaps not. I would like to feel better about my own life. I'm solvent, but my circumstance takes a mental toll on me and hurts my chance of building a new relationship with someone else.

[Mrin]

No. Not because of anything legal. But because you have only brought it up due to the child support difference. No desire to see your children more... You just want to save some money. That's no reason for you to get more custody.

[Mr. Lucky]

The ex has remarried to the man she left me for. She remains a SAHM. I have three kids, so losing the extra night costs me about $5K a year. I had my kids older, so I'll be paying support until I retire.

 

Is your concern spending more time with your kids or the financial impact of your divorce? Two different things...

 

I also had 3 nights a week with my young son post-divorce. It eventually morphed into a more flexible arrangement as my ex began living the single life and wanted additional time to herself. You may find the future holds similar changes for you.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Striver]

No. Not because of anything legal. But because you have only brought it up due to the child support difference. No desire to see your children more... You just want to save some money. That's no reason for you to get more custody.

 

I cherish my children and they come first. I have never used a babysitter once during the four years of separation and divorce. Ex has no problem palming the kids off on her parents or me. I have plenty of desire to see my children more. I coach their teams, go on field trips and every possible school event.

 

Yes, money matters. As it does with the ex. I know going into court I would not argue money. More an issue of fairness, I have been a very involved father, 50-50 has evolved into the standard as it should.

 

What hurt going into the divorce is the ex was a SAHM and the kids were young. Combined with the soft guidelines of the state, those were things in the favor of my ex. The ex got hurt when we went into mediation and I was cooperative and her arguments were nonsense.

[Striver]

Is your concern spending more time with your kids or the financial impact of your divorce? Two different things...

 

I also had 3 nights a week with my young son post-divorce. It eventually morphed into a more flexible arrangement as my ex began living the single life and wanted additional time to herself. You may find the future holds similar changes for you.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Both. I see my kids as much as possible, go to school events, field trips, coach their teams. Don't get baby sitters.

 

Yes, the finances matter. I bought the cheapest safe home I could and am breaking even on it. My retirement fund is okay, but given my age, I won't be able to build up any other cash. I don't know that I will ever take a vacation with any expense attached. That money is saved for the kids.

 

I would like to have more money so I have the flexibility to start a new life, new more serious relationship should that happen. Things are tight enough for me now that it impacts that part of my life.

 

My schedule is also not ideal since I don't have a fully free weekend.

 

My ex is remarried, she will not be living the single life. I am guessing she will stay with the guy she left me for. She wanted me to take the weekend time because she felt she had to be with the kids on school days. She's a SAHM, doesn't work except for a hobby job. That doesn't help my finances either, and her remarriage doesn't either, since that doesn't affect support and I paid no alimony anyway.

[carhill]

IME, with male friends, most now grandfathers, the ones who got the 'fairest deal' were those who went scorched earth for complete custody and hammered their ex'es in court. The ones who tried to be nice guys got two weekends a month and maybe a month in summer. At worst, with the scorched earth guys, the aggressiveness got them 50-50. This was back in the 70's and 80's when the courts and legal system, ironically dominated by men, were supplicating to the female right and left.

 

I'll never forget the face of a really good dad I knew well, sitting in his pasture with his .45 Colt and a bottle of Jack, having come home from his job with our public utility to find his house completely barren (literally one place setting left and nothing else, not even a bed) and his wife and son and daughter gone. I think the only thing that kept him in the game was his long-time horse standing over him and me showing up when I did. He couldn't do it. He found his resolve and became one of those success stories.

 

A generation earlier, my dad, the nice guy, came home from the fields of battle to a non-extant wife and two disappeared daughters who he never saw again. Sure, he paid his support to an address across the country (saw the checks) and got a few cards (saw those) but that was it. He wasn't a warrior. The war, and his wife leaving, broke him. He was lucky he married my mom and not some female who'd chew him up and spit him out again.

 

OP... OK, you're in this. Look at how your exW moved on did what she wanted for herself and let the chips fall where they may. Learn from it. Get out of that conciliatory protect serve programming we're inoculated with. What do you want, for you and your children? Do you feel they deserve a more full-time biological dad? Do you think you're valuable in their lives? That's your mission. Focus. Make your children proud.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I don't think it's fair at all to deprive either parent of 50% custody as long schedules allow it and it's best for the kids (i.e. both parents are good parents). When I first got divorced, we had something like 70/30 because my kids were little, and he left for work too early in the morning to be able to have them overnight during the week (and was not yet coupled up with another person in the house who could be there early in the morning). When those factors changed, we moved to a 50/50 custody agreement because it's only fair. We are both good parents. Child support is a whole 'nother issue. He's always been an angry bully about it and wore me down so I always signed off on less than the "full amount" I could have anyway. He's recently stepped up and is paying for more of the "extras" like prom dress, a car for my daugther, equestrian expenses, etc. because of a drastic change in my income, so it's all coming out in the wash right now.

 

As far as TIME, though, you deserve half just as much as she does. And the kids definitely do!

[salparadise]

Yes, money matters. As it does with the ex. I know going into court I would not argue money. More an issue of fairness, I have been a very involved father, 50-50 has evolved into the standard as it should.

 

Keep accurate records so you can prove that you've been keeping the kids fifty percent of the time. Communicate via email as much as possible to back up the overnight records you keep. After you have enough to show the pattern clearly (consult with your lawyer) go back to court and ask to have it changed to 50-50 officially, and if possible to be compensated for the discrepancy between what you've been paying vs. the actual time.

 

In my state I'm pretty sure this would be granted if you kept good records.

 

I got 50-50 with my daughter despite my ex trying to have me limited to two weekends a month. I only asked for 50-50, and I had a good judge and guardian ad litem. Their default starting point was equal time and it was up to the parties to show why it should not be granted.

 

My ex overplayed her hand (making up sh*t they knew wasn't true), and then lost her temper in front of the guardian ad litem because she wasn't buying it. My lawyer was glowing that morning when I came to court. He told me the story about the ex losing her cool (word travels fast among lawyers). He said you have nothing to worry about now... you're going to get everything you're asking for. He was right.

Edited June 12, 2018 by salparadise

[Els]

I cherish my children and they come first. I have never used a babysitter once during the four years of separation and divorce. Ex has no problem palming the kids off on her parents or me. I have plenty of desire to see my children more. I coach their teams, go on field trips and every possible school event.

 

Yes, money matters. As it does with the ex. I know going into court I would not argue money. More an issue of fairness, I have been a very involved father, 50-50 has evolved into the standard as it should.

 

What hurt going into the divorce is the ex was a SAHM and the kids were young. Combined with the soft guidelines of the state, those were things in the favor of my ex. The ex got hurt when we went into mediation and I was cooperative and her arguments were nonsense.

 

 

I think you're missing Mrin's point. Your kids deserve to be spending time with a parent who actually wants to spend time with them for the sake of spending time with them, not to save $5k!!

 

 

To put it another way, if you did get the extra night you asked for but it would not affect your child support payments, would you be overjoyed or would you be disappointed?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I think you're missing Mrin's point. Your kids deserve to be spending time with a parent who actually wants to spend time with them for the sake of spending time with them, not to save $5k!!

 

 

To put it another way, if you did get the extra night you asked for but it would not affect your child support payments, would you be overjoyed or would you be disappointed?

 

I think both can be true.......

[Striver]

I think you're missing Mrin's point. Your kids deserve to be spending time with a parent who actually wants to spend time with them for the sake of spending time with them, not to save $5k!!

 

 

To put it another way, if you did get the extra night you asked for but it would not affect your child support payments, would you be overjoyed or would you be disappointed?

 

Why don't you ask my ex that question?

 

I have already said that I volunteer tons of time with my kids. Take days off to go on field trips. Etc.

 

Suppose we went the other way. Custody is 5-9, I have them a weekend and one night a week. That is $5K more a year that I would be paying. At that rate, I would be in the hole. Spending more than I take in, even with a house payment that is as low as it can go, a car payment that is as low as it can go. I can't do that. I am spending money right now for one of our children to go to a special school because of the child's learning issues. I would not be able to make that payment with less placement and higher child support.

 

Also know that my ex chooses not to work. The kids are all in school, she could go get a regular job again and bring in more money. Help pay for our child's school ourselves, instead of asking relatives for money for it. I don't have that option, there is no money like that in my family. I don't really have the option to earn more money. She could easily do that but chooses not to.

 

Yes, the money matters. My lifestyle stresses me out. I am solvent, could be worse. But I'm not that happy. At some point, this will take a toll on my relationship with the kids, if I can't find a relationship partner because I'm stressed and untrusting.

 

As I said, I wanted 50-50. My ex has sacrificed nothing in this whole deal, has the kids she wanted, the man she always wanted, no sacrifice in lifestyle whatsoever to do all of this. I've never said anything about her that wasn't true.

 

I want some level of happiness in my later years. I'll already be working far later in life than most of my peers, taking fewer vacations. May or may not have a decent life partner. God forbid that I would have 50-50 custody and finances that were a bit better.

[JuneL]

^^^ I hear what you’re saying.

[Striver]

I don't think it's fair at all to deprive either parent of 50% custody as long schedules allow it and it's best for the kids (i.e. both parents are good parents). When I first got divorced, we had something like 70/30 because my kids were little, and he left for work too early in the morning to be able to have them overnight during the week (and was not yet coupled up with another person in the house who could be there early in the morning). When those factors changed, we moved to a 50/50 custody agreement because it's only fair. We are both good parents. Child support is a whole 'nother issue. He's always been an angry bully about it and wore me down so I always signed off on less than the "full amount" I could have anyway. He's recently stepped up and is paying for more of the "extras" like prom dress, a car for my daugther, equestrian expenses, etc. because of a drastic change in my income, so it's all coming out in the wash right now.

 

As far as TIME, though, you deserve half just as much as she does. And the kids definitely do!

 

I commend your approach. My former girlfriend was the same way. ExH didn't even want to see the kids at first, but she gave him 50-50 when he wanted it.

 

Clearly I resent the approach my ex took and do not trust her. She tends to need to win every battle. I have traded holidays with her when it didn't help me at all, then asked for a trade back to even up, and she clearly always resented it.

 

My former GF lived a couple of hours away, so there wasn't much time between us, which was one of the issues between us. She resented that she never met my kids. I told her about my kids all of the time, but part of me sees a potential partner as taking my "share" of the kids away from me. Like I have my share of the kids, and if I add someone new I have to divide my share with her. That's not good for me...

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I told her about my kids all of the time, but part of me sees a potential partner as taking my "share" of the kids away from me. Like I have my share of the kids, and if I add someone new I have to divide my share with her. That's not good for me...

 

I think once you find the right person you will change your tune. A potential partner could add a lot to your kids' lives.

[somanymistakes]

 

After I had gone from 50-50 to 6-8, I asked my lawyer what the percentages were of decisions when placement was in dispute. He said 60% 50-50, 20% 6-8, 20% 5-9. Everyone got at least 5-9, in other words. I really wish he would have been more aggressive, come out and given me more guidance. I might have made better decisions.

 

This is one of the reasons I try to push back when people start in on the "oh, men never win" train. Yes, there are judges who are horribly unfair to men, yes there are men who got screwed over, but if you go in believing that it's normal to get screwed, you won't stand up for yourself. Go in believing that you absolutely have the right to 50/50 and it's easier to stand your ground.

 

The ex has remarried to the man she left me for. She remains a SAHM. I have three kids, so losing the extra night costs me about $5K a year. I had my kids older, so I'll be paying support until I retire.

 

Should I have gotten a better deal? Should I try to re-open and go for 50-50? Ex usually treats me fairly nicely now and feels guilty about her actions, as well she should. Perhaps she'd give me a break, perhaps not. I would like to feel better about my own life. I'm solvent, but my circumstance takes a mental toll on me and hurts my chance of building a new relationship with someone else.

 

How long has it been? It's generally a bad idea to try and reopen a custody case unless there has been a major change in circumstances (many orders specifically say they can't be renegotiated without one)

 

You can try to get the ex to leave the kids with you more often, document that you actually have 50/50, and then push for a ruling to adjust the official status to reflect the reality. That will take time though.

 

If either you or your wife change jobs, that may be a trigger to re-examine the situation.

 

Or if one of the kids hits the age of about 15 and has drastically new needs and desires (don't press kids younger than 15 to state a preference, it's not fair to them)

 

Otherwise it's probably not going to work too well to go back to court unless your ex actually AGREES to the plan.

[Striver]

This is one of the reasons I try to push back when people start in on the "oh, men never win" train. Yes, there are judges who are horribly unfair to men, yes there are men who got screwed over, but if you go in believing that it's normal to get screwed, you won't stand up for yourself. Go in believing that you absolutely have the right to 50/50 and it's easier to stand your ground.

 

My attorney felt it was a complicating factor in my case that the kids were young, the youngest just starting pre-K, plus the ex was and is a stay at home mom. So she would have a potential edge in arguing for what she wanted in placement.

 

Had I known that she would perform so badly in mediation, I might have made a different decision. She was uncooperative and irrational, I was cooperative, and the mediator (a woman) didn't really take her side. After one session she agreed to my side of it.

 

The ex presented a lowball schedule where I would have contact with the kids on 6 days but only two overnights out of 14, and several handoffs. I eventually got overnights on all of those days and down to one handoff. I could have proposed my own schedule. I held up the sale of our house for some time because she would not agree to placement. By nature I am better on defense than offense in argumentative matters. The ex is more of a shark, not just with me.

 

The kids have been in school full time for a while now (close to four years since we settled the placement), and I suppose I could argue that the schedule could be changed based on that.

 

As far as some of the money stuff goes, I have mentioned that one of my children needs to go to a private school. My ex is eminently employable. Has a husband who works. She could easily work a part time schedule and have "the family" (her and me) cover the cost of my child's schooling. My child support is based on imputed income, so up to a point she could cover the cost and it wouldn't even help me.

 

Instead, she chooses to not work and asks her family for money. I find that decision curious. Asking family for money for something like that without trying my best on my own I would find deeply embarrassing. Yet she has no problem with it. It fuels some of my feelings on money in the settlement.

[Mr. Lucky]

Instead, she chooses to not work and asks her family for money. I find that decision curious. Asking family for money for something like that without trying my best on my own I would find deeply embarrassing. Yet she has no problem with it. It fuels some of my feelings on money in the settlement.

 

I can tell you from experience, part of this you should just let go. While I get her contribution might change the numbers in your equation, her post-divorce work status becomes none of your business.

 

Focus on the important things, namely those under your control...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Striver]

I can tell you from experience, part of this you should just let go. While I get her contribution might change the numbers in your equation, her post-divorce work status becomes none of your business.

 

Focus on the important things, namely those under your control...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Time with the kids is pretty important. I guess I started the thread because someone else here said that it was easy to get 50-50 today. I did not get 50-50. Maybe my lawyer was right, I had fewer options because of my state, the ex is a SAHM, the kids were young. Maybe I should have fought harder, stuck to my guns more. I don't know.

 

The ex is not abusive and not undeserving of time with the children. She doesn't deserve more time with the children than I do. My family is the kids and me. The kids are on vacation with her right now, and I look forward to them telling me what they did. That's part of my relationship with them. In my world my family is the most important.

 

So I don't want to be a doormat or a sap taking less than is my due. Maybe I should have gone scorched earth and just fight for what I want. If the situations were reversed the ex would do the same, did do the same.

 

The situation with the money is "perfectly legal." I wouldn't call it fair. I can live with the money. The personal stuff, the mistrust I have now, is probably worse. I don't know what to do with that. I do not want to hate women. But I feel I know too much of their true nature now, as it's expressed in the year of 2018.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

The situation with the money is "perfectly legal." I wouldn't call it fair. I can live with the money. The personal stuff, the mistrust I have now, is probably worse. I don't know what to do with that. I do not want to hate women. But I feel I know too much of their true nature now, as it's expressed in the year of 2018.

 

OK, well, not all women are like that, as you could hopefully tell from my post before about my own custody agreement and how it changed when circumstances for my ex changed. However, I do know some women who ARE like you say, and it's a shame. They give the "rest of us" a bad name. One of my closest girlfriends is going through a divorce and she has a side business as a dog sitter. She makes thousands and thousands of dollars a year doing this (on top of her very good full time job) and she was having a fit because her ex wanted her to include this income in the calculations! I was completely not on her side when she was complaining to me about how awful he was for wanting this. I haven't asked her what agreement they came to, but she had no grounds for what she wanted to do. She just wanted the money. I also have friends who didn't accept the "max" the courts said they should receive in child support and demanded more from their exes, in litigation for years. It's insane to me, especially when these are intelligent, educated women capable of earning great salaries (and DO earn great salaries). I've seen a guy friend go through this, too, and he was even the kids' after-school care while his ex was able to still work (and then they went home to her at night!). She passed away from cancer very young so now he has them 100% of the time and is in a much better place financially. And also emotionally.

 

We are NOT all this way, though. I was actually way too much of a pushover, but that's another story.

 

Sorry, I was babbling. With all that said, I do think that part of the original agreement was because of her being a SAHM and your littlest little not yet being in school full time. If you have a plan for after school care for them now, and for morning care/getting them to school, I absolutely think you can go back and get the plan revised to get 50/50. And I think you should.

[Mr. Lucky]

Maybe I should have gone scorched earth and just fight for what I want. If the situations were reversed the ex would do the same, did do the same.

 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, we all have regrets and would love a few do-overs. Unless you have access to an '85 Delorean, not going to happen.

 

It would be a shame to allow any of this to color your chances for happiness now...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Striver]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, we all have regrets and would love a few do-overs. Unless you have access to an '85 Delorean, not going to happen.

 

It would be a shame to allow any of this to color your chances for happiness now...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You know, you're right.

 

I've thought about it. I did the best I could. 50-50 may be easy in certain circumstances, but I've mentioned several reasons it didn't hold true in my case. To me, if there are several extenuating circumstances, that changes things.

 

I could certainly re-apply. Ex usually isn't too flexible, but she has gotten nicer over time, clearly feels guilty about her actions. So maybe she would do it. For the finances, a lot of the savings would get plowed back into my kid's school anyway, so that wouldn't change much in the short run.

 

Otherwise, wasted energy, time to move on!

[Striver]

OK, well, not all women are like that, as you could hopefully tell from my post before about my own custody agreement and how it changed when circumstances for my ex changed. However, I do know some women who ARE like you say, and it's a shame. They give the "rest of us" a bad name. One of my closest girlfriends is going through a divorce and she has a side business as a dog sitter. She makes thousands and thousands of dollars a year doing this (on top of her very good full time job) and she was having a fit because her ex wanted her to include this income in the calculations! I was completely not on her side when she was complaining to me about how awful he was for wanting this. I haven't asked her what agreement they came to, but she had no grounds for what she wanted to do. She just wanted the money. I also have friends who didn't accept the "max" the courts said they should receive in child support and demanded more from their exes, in litigation for years. It's insane to me, especially when these are intelligent, educated women capable of earning great salaries (and DO earn great salaries). I've seen a guy friend go through this, too, and he was even the kids' after-school care while his ex was able to still work (and then they went home to her at night!). She passed away from cancer very young so now he has them 100% of the time and is in a much better place financially. And also emotionally.

 

We are NOT all this way, though. I was actually way too much of a pushover, but that's another story.

 

Sorry, I was babbling. With all that said, I do think that part of the original agreement was because of her being a SAHM and your littlest little not yet being in school full time. If you have a plan for after school care for them now, and for morning care/getting them to school, I absolutely think you can go back and get the plan revised to get 50/50. And I think you should.

 

Thanks for your support on this issue. Nice to know there are different perspectives out there, different sorts of people. I'll try to keep it in mind.

 

Didn't ask for this life, but none of us ask to be born anyway. Just make the best of it!

[OwlLover]

Please,Please,Please consider what your children may want. Have a sit down with them and really ask them unless they are too young to understand/communicate. I am a child of divorced parents who wanted a major custody battle and for awhile we all were on thin ice because I never had a say and was often left out of the loop. Only aware of things right before they happen. You'll know you got a raw deal once you talk to your kids. Best of Luck.

[Striver]

Please,Please,Please consider what your children may want. Have a sit down with them and really ask them unless they are too young to understand/communicate. I am a child of divorced parents who wanted a major custody battle and for awhile we all were on thin ice because I never had a say and was often left out of the loop. Only aware of things right before they happen. You'll know you got a raw deal once you talk to your kids. Best of Luck.

 

The kids go with the flow. Only one was dimly aware of what was going on. The ex and I do not fight, did not fight. I don't do that. I would not pull anything like that to get something I want. I am just questioning if I'm taking on too much myself.

 

The kids are doing fine. We will see how the teenage years go. I am the most unhappy with the situation. Due to my age, money, the kids, my options are limited. Including remarriage. Probably will not do it because of the kids and my trust issues. I am willing to have a LTR as a girlfriend. I want some companionship, a friend. I take it others out there must be in the same boat and I can come to an accord with someone. I don't expect miracles, and will always have some sorrow because of the ex.

[Sleepy3456]

Just a pragmatic comment. Is it possible that your partner is having this fight over the $5K a year? If she needs it you might be pushing her into a corner and wondering why she won't back down.

 

If you offered that to her even if you had 50-50 custody would that make a difference? If nothing else the courts will see this as a sign of your intention to share the children outside of the financial implications.