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wife is staying with friends - says she's "done"


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Old 26th December 2017, 3:15 PM   #16
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By my estimation, your wife has been gone for four days. Guys have a tendency to believe that years of marital problems can be fixed with one letter, or a couple days of being different. If your marriage can be saved, you’re in this for the long haul. Your wife will be looking to see how you act over the course of the next year—not a weekend.

If you’re frustrated that she can’t see all the good you’ve done over a single weekend, your mind isn’t in the right place.
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Old 26th December 2017, 3:18 PM   #17
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In bold are different ways of saying the same thing with the first word being the behavior trait I'm feeling as I read it. See the differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoicHusband View Post
And you think I haven't had these same thoughts. Argumentative: (I thought about those too) Did you even read my post?Dismissal: (Maybe I didn't express my self the way I wanted too) I'm looking for solutions, not reasons to be down on myself. I've got enough of those. Avoidance: Perhaps I have some real work to do understanding everything.

I came here honestly, and I'm being honest with myself too. Name-calling really isn't the best way to make your advice take root.Dismissal: I'm really trying to be honest with myself and have more empathy for my wife and you telling me I'm not already is hurting my feelings
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Old 27th December 2017, 1:24 AM   #18
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Hi Stoic, I have only one piece of advice to give you. If you want to attract your wife back to your nest then turn over a completely new leaf and live well, enjoy life and make your self attractive to women in general! If you change yourself sufficiently from what you were before and develop a magnetic personality, you will have women eating out of your hand and I'd eat my hat if your wife didn't come waltzing back to you in the blink of an eye before some other woman hooked you. You are, after all, still married to her and she would claim what is rightfully hers. Unless of course by then you have changed your mind about her because of the heady feeling you get with so many women fawning over you. Can you do it? Only time will tell.

I would like to recommed a book which will help you if you are persistant in following it's principles. It is titled 'Psych-Cybernetics' by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. You should get it in your local bookstore or on Amazon. Yry it. It may be your lifeline to salvation. Warm wishes.

Last edited by Just a Guy; 27th December 2017 at 1:32 AM..
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Old 27th December 2017, 2:44 AM   #19
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Ok, please tell me I'm not the only one to pick up on this little nugget?

Quote:
I think I acted this way because my wife was so upset with the change of him coming to live with us. She cried and told me the first weekend how it felt like we weren't even together when he was here.
Dude, I say let her go base on that part alone, it sounds like your son is an issue for her and every thing else is her not wanting to be a horrible person by saying I don't want your son here.
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Old 27th December 2017, 2:46 AM   #20
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I don't understand something here. My frame of reference is totally different, so that could be expected. You have a son that you got at 8 and now he's 12? Those are very, very important years.

My marriage was similar, 10 years, 6.5 married. I was on the cusp of losing my daughter when she was one and a half. You get your son handed to you at a pivotal age. How the heck did that happen? That seems like a pivotal part of this story. How did you get your son? That doesn't just happen on it's own.

I understand it's a son of a different age from a different relationship. But, as soon as I got time with my daughter, that's what made my life meaningful. Your own son needs to transition from child to adult. So many times fathers are not even allowed more than 4 days a month. You have him. Handed on a platter? I had to fight. Now some chick wants to shame you? Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can say I've gotten more fulfillment from raising my daughter than giving a 2nd thought to my ex.

Dude, what comes first? Bond with your son. It's worth it.

Last edited by testmeasure; 27th December 2017 at 2:50 AM..
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Old 27th December 2017, 10:55 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by testmeasure View Post
I don't understand something here. My frame of reference is totally different, so that could be expected. You have a son that you got at 8 and now he's 12? Those are very, very important years.

Dude, what comes first? Bond with your son. It's worth it.


It is interesting that OP mentioned his wife couldn't handle his parenting style. When my ex fiancée moved in she had kids and I didn't care much for her style. A lot of yelling and flying off the handle on her part, bad behavior completely ignored and allowed one minute, the next minute yelling at a kid who wasn't really doing anything wrong. Everyone sitting quietly and then chaos in an instant over something trivial to the point I was siding with the kids more than her based on how she handled everything.


I felt a bit like his wife said she felt, like if I had a kid with her I couldn't allow my kid to grow up in an environment like that. For me that was one of the deal breakers, if she had changed and acknowledged that issue, I would have had a hard time accepting/believing it would ever be a permanent change. Like it was at her core and her core wasn't going to change.


That might be impossible for the wife to overcome after being exposed to it.
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Old 27th December 2017, 11:55 AM   #22
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Along with DTK3 let me respond to this...

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Originally Posted by DKT3 View Post
Ok, please tell me I'm not the only one to pick up on this little nugget?

Dude, I say let her go base on that part alone, it sounds like your son is an issue for her and every thing else is her not wanting to be a horrible person by saying I don't want your son here.
First off, unless you are a terrible parent, and shame on you if you are, the way that you raise your child is your business, PERIOD.

Now if she really had a problem with your parenting skills or lack there of, then she as your wife has every right to discreetly set you down and have a rational discussion about parenting and what she thinks should happen. It should be respectful, loving and open on both of your parts.

If she did not do that and just decided that she did not want your child there, then you tell her to hit the road, like yesterday. Again, period. No more need for discussion on that topic.

Your child ALWAYS COMES FIRST and any husband or wife that does not understand that gets dumped.

Now, if you have been and internet nut for the last 3 or whatever years, walking around angry and ignoring your wife's opinion or even her lack of opinion then yes that is on you.

Further, knock it off. Even further you need to be better for you and your son, not to impress her or to win her back. That is not a valid reason to change yourself. You make yourself better to be better because you want to be a better person. If she sees it and comes back then that is fine, if she does not then you can still be a better person for the next woman in your life.

Next, from what I can gather from your thread, you have not learned that much so far. Examples, 1) you would not allow her to just come and get her stuff, you had to insist that she opened her present with you and your son. That is both weak and controlling at the same time. and 2) you seem to not want to take some of the advice here because you don't agree with it. You want to argue with people that have been through this type of stuff, even though one of the reasons that you are here is that you want to argue with everyone in your life and prove that you are right.

Does that register at all for you?????

You, and no offense, come across as an angry internet troll type of person that no one would want to be around much less your wife.

At the same time that you are weak, and clingy with your wife... you are overbearing and overly opinionated, which is about the worst combination any man can possibly be.

Then there is the inevitable, "How do know that she is not having an affair and is the process of leaving you for another guy?"

Not that anything you have said so far leads to that conclusion, but it is highly unlikely that a woman would separate like she has and not have a replacement lined up. It happens, yes, but it is not the most common situation.

So for advice, CHILL OUT. About several things. 1) Politics, left or right, you cannot change some people's minds no matter what you say. 2) Being angry, just knock it off. If you have a high IQ and yet you are not smart enough to know that you cannot impose your will on other people, you always have to lead by example. 3) Anger is one of the most unattractive things that a man can show a woman. It scares them, even if they do not admit it, and it is a total turn off to women in every way.

If you want to be a better, stronger person, do it for you and most importantly your son. It does not happen overnight, because it took a long time for you to get there and it will take long time to get out...
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Old 27th December 2017, 12:05 PM   #23
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OP, why were you out of work for three years? And how did it impact your marriage? Did it add to an anger problem or damage your self esteem?

I have a reason for asking. Thanks.
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Well, bless your heart.
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Old 27th December 2017, 12:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatroomHero View Post
I felt a bit like his wife said she felt, like if I had a kid with her I couldn't allow my kid to grow up in an environment like that. For me that was one of the deal breakers, if she had changed and acknowledged that issue, I would have had a hard time accepting/believing it would ever be a permanent change. Like it was at her core and her core wasn't going to change.


That might be impossible for the wife to overcome after being exposed to it.
^^^This
Plus the fact she probably never envisaged being a full time step mom.
She probably thought it was going to be the two of them raising their own family, not for her to be left parenting a 8yo son, his father couldn't be bothered with.
No wonder she cried when the son showed up, her life had changed forever, she had been backed into a corner and was railroaded into being a step Mom
Some women will happily bring up other people's kids like their own, but others just do not want to do that, especially if they are left with the hard work and the biological parent abdicates responsibility.
Here he had the opportunity to step up and show what a loving father he was, but that did not happen and now she does not want to expose any kids she does ever have to a father like that.

Yes, some with a big incentive or who experience a great epiphany, can change for the better, but I guess the trust is gone here, and now suddenly being the "model parent and husband" may fool no-one, as I guess both the wife and the son will be waiting for the time when "normal service is resumed".
A lot of water flowed under this bridge, people do not tend to forget misdemeanours, hurts, nasty words and bitter arguments in a hurry.
They replay them over and over in their mind, and often no amount of sudden "niceness", can erase them.


OP
I guess at least 4 years of resentment has built up, and that cannot just be resolved with a few clean and empty cupboards, a lot of work ahead for you to regain her trust. I guess your son will also need a lot of persuading that the "new you" is here for good.
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Old 30th December 2017, 3:40 PM   #25
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I disagree Elaine, unless she had no idea he had a son, she should have had a reasonable expectation of his son being there.

I also don't believe that the issue is really his parenting style, her reaction was to quick and she really hadn't had enough time to see his style before the issues arose.

Besides any of that, it still boils down to the fact that she simply doesn't want his son there because she feels it takes attention away from her. No possible way I would want to spend any time with a woman that said that let alone marry her. At that point anything she said, in my opinion, is bull.
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Old 30th December 2017, 3:58 PM   #26
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Update: She's still with friends, came on 12/26 to pick up her "clothes and stuff" she took clothes, a fan, soap, etc. Her important papers and family heirlooms are still here. She declined to meet up and talk, said she can't see why and is filing for divorce asap.

I've been spending more quality time with my son and trying to stay busy around the house and at work. I almost can't handle the silence around here, so I've been on the phone with family and friends a lot.

I'm still taking what she said seriously, my son has been homeschooled, but has fallen behind and he and I obviously need some kind of accountability without her around, so I'm going to enroll him in a charter school as soon as the holiday break is over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Me View Post
In bold are different ways of saying the same thing with the first word being the behavior trait I'm feeling as I read it. See the differences?
I do. Thanks for your honesty. I'm really sorry for the way I responded. I was hurting and that's no excuse to be so sharp with someone who's advice I sought out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
Hi Stoic, I have only one piece of advice to give you. If you want to attract your wife back to your nest then turn over a completely new leaf and live well, enjoy life and make your self attractive to women in general! If you change yourself sufficiently from what you were before and develop a magnetic personality, you will have women eating out of your hand and I'd eat my hat if your wife didn't come waltzing back to you in the blink of an eye before some other woman hooked you. You are, after all, still married to her and she would claim what is rightfully hers. Unless of course by then you have changed your mind about her because of the heady feeling you get with so many women fawning over you. Can you do it? Only time will tell.

I would like to recommed a book which will help you if you are persistant in following it's principles. It is titled 'Psych-Cybernetics' by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. You should get it in your local bookstore or on Amazon. Yry it. It may be your lifeline to salvation. Warm wishes.
I have been listening to this audiobook and it does have some insightful parts, I've had difficulty paying attention because the guys voice is depressing but I'm getting an ebook copy and I will begin to take notes of the pertinant parts. Thanks for the suggestion.

How did this book help/affect you? I'd be interested to hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by testmeasure View Post
I don't understand something here. My frame of reference is totally different, so that could be expected. You have a son that you got at 8 and now he's 12? Those are very, very important years.

My marriage was similar, 10 years, 6.5 married. I was on the cusp of losing my daughter when she was one and a half. You get your son handed to you at a pivotal age. How the heck did that happen? That seems like a pivotal part of this story. How did you get your son? That doesn't just happen on it's own.

I understand it's a son of a different age from a different relationship. But, as soon as I got time with my daughter, that's what made my life meaningful. Your own son needs to transition from child to adult. So many times fathers are not even allowed more than 4 days a month. You have him. Handed on a platter? I had to fight. Now some chick wants to shame you? Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can say I've gotten more fulfillment from raising my daughter than giving a 2nd thought to my ex.

Dude, what comes first? Bond with your son. It's worth it.
That's the plan, thanks for the advice/perspective. BTW, he wasn't "handed to me" I don't know exactly what I said that made this impression. Actually I was 17 when he was born and his mom and her family was able to prevent me from exercising my right to him by having me removed from the hospital. I didn't know how to do so after that. Later I represented myself as an attorney and won custody. He comes from a very neglectful home (that I was assured every time I made contact was a loving and warm place to be.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatroomHero View Post
It is interesting that OP mentioned his wife couldn't handle his parenting style. When my ex fiancée moved in she had kids and I didn't care much for her style. A lot of yelling and flying off the handle on her part, bad behavior completely ignored and allowed one minute, the next minute yelling at a kid who wasn't really doing anything wrong. Everyone sitting quietly and then chaos in an instant over something trivial to the point I was siding with the kids more than her based on how she handled everything.


I felt a bit like his wife said she felt, like if I had a kid with her I couldn't allow my kid to grow up in an environment like that. For me that was one of the deal breakers, if she had changed and acknowledged that issue, I would have had a hard time accepting/believing it would ever be a permanent change. Like it was at her core and her core wasn't going to change.


That might be impossible for the wife to overcome after being exposed to it.
I'm hoping our situation might be different considering she knew me before. Thanks for the input it does provide some perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesPower View Post
First off, unless you are a terrible parent, and shame on you if you are, the way that you raise your child is your business, PERIOD.

Now if she really had a problem with your parenting skills or lack there of, then she as your wife has every right to discreetly set you down and have a rational discussion about parenting and what she thinks should happen. It should be respectful, loving and open on both of your parts.

If she did not do that and just decided that she did not want your child there, then you tell her to hit the road, like yesterday. Again, period. No more need for discussion on that topic.

Your child ALWAYS COMES FIRST and any husband or wife that does not understand that gets dumped.

Now, if you have been and internet nut for the last 3 or whatever years, walking around angry and ignoring your wife's opinion or even her lack of opinion then yes that is on you.

Further, knock it off. Even further you need to be better for you and your son, not to impress her or to win her back. That is not a valid reason to change yourself. You make yourself better to be better because you want to be a better person. If she sees it and comes back then that is fine, if she does not then you can still be a better person for the next woman in your life.

Next, from what I can gather from your thread, you have not learned that much so far. Examples, 1) you would not allow her to just come and get her stuff, you had to insist that she opened her present with you and your son. That is both weak and controlling at the same time. and 2) you seem to not want to take some of the advice here because you don't agree with it. You want to argue with people that have been through this type of stuff, even though one of the reasons that you are here is that you want to argue with everyone in your life and prove that you are right.

Does that register at all for you?????

You, and no offense, come across as an angry internet troll type of person that no one would want to be around much less your wife.

At the same time that you are weak, and clingy with your wife... you are overbearing and overly opinionated, which is about the worst combination any man can possibly be.

Then there is the inevitable, "How do know that she is not having an affair and is the process of leaving you for another guy?"

Not that anything you have said so far leads to that conclusion, but it is highly unlikely that a woman would separate like she has and not have a replacement lined up. It happens, yes, but it is not the most common situation.

So for advice, CHILL OUT. About several things. 1) Politics, left or right, you cannot change some people's minds no matter what you say. 2) Being angry, just knock it off. If you have a high IQ and yet you are not smart enough to know that you cannot impose your will on other people, you always have to lead by example. 3) Anger is one of the most unattractive things that a man can show a woman. It scares them, even if they do not admit it, and it is a total turn off to women in every way.

If you want to be a better, stronger person, do it for you and most importantly your son. It does not happen overnight, because it took a long time for you to get there and it will take long time to get out...
All solid advice. Definitely things I realized the moment she said "your personality sucks". I do feel like that was a bucket of cold water though, I watch every word I say to my son and have taken a different tact when speaking with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwestUSA View Post
OP, why were you out of work for three years? And how did it impact your marriage? Did it add to an anger problem or damage your self esteem?

I have a reason for asking. Thanks.
Many reasons, firstly by working any job that paid a wage I would have to pay child support to a dopehead and once she started getting checks she'd never let my son go. Secondly because my wife and I have always said that the first priority for us was our time together, I could have worked when he was younger but would've had to do a different schedule, she always told me that's not what she wanted. (probably saying what I wanted to hear, denying the confrontation.)

I was not entirely witout income. I did some work that paid "under the table" because we couldn't sustain this home on just her income, obviously.

It did add to my anxiety issues, which peaked around a year ago and I used stoicism and exercise to repair that damage. I made quite a turnaround, but apparently not enough. I was still angry quite a bit and especially with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elaine567 View Post
^^^This
Plus the fact she probably never envisaged being a full time step mom.
She probably thought it was going to be the two of them raising their own family, not for her to be left parenting a 8yo son, his father couldn't be bothered with.
No wonder she cried when the son showed up, her life had changed forever, she had been backed into a corner and was railroaded into being a step Mom
Some women will happily bring up other people's kids like their own, but others just do not want to do that, especially if they are left with the hard work and the biological parent abdicates responsibility.
Here he had the opportunity to step up and show what a loving father he was, but that did not happen and now she does not want to expose any kids she does ever have to a father like that.

Yes, some with a big incentive or who experience a great epiphany, can change for the better, but I guess the trust is gone here, and now suddenly being the "model parent and husband" may fool no-one, as I guess both the wife and the son will be waiting for the time when "normal service is resumed".
A lot of water flowed under this bridge, people do not tend to forget misdemeanours, hurts, nasty words and bitter arguments in a hurry.
They replay them over and over in their mind, and often no amount of sudden "niceness", can erase them.


OP
I guess at least 4 years of resentment has built up, and that cannot just be resolved with a few clean and empty cupboards, a lot of work ahead for you to regain her trust. I guess your son will also need a lot of persuading that the "new you" is here for good.
I hope you're wrong, but I appreciate the honest advice. Thanks elaine. I have a big incentive, my favorite person in the entire world just walked out because what I was doing doesn't work for her. I intend to be different because even if I can't get her back I could never get someone as special as she was. Especially with my current mindset.


TO ALL:
I really am trying to respond in a polite and courteous way in this post, any other interpretation simply isn't my intent. Thank you all so much and do let me know if you have any further input.

As for me, some days are better than others right now. Time with my son is painful knowing that she may not come back, he knows her as well as he knows hi own father and that hurts him deeply. I'm beginning to feel resentful because she just walked out and didn't even say goodbye. She was here and didn't even leave him a note. I worry that she may be serious and that certainly isn't the way I expected her to handle herself if/when it did come to this.

I realized that she was uncomfortable around discipline but every time we spoke she would say "he's just a kid" and things of that nature, but she never told me she disapproved of my entire approach. I felt this was related to single incidents, ones which I, too, felt badly about.

Remember I'm still learning here and yes, her opinion means the world to me so I am taking it seriously. This week has been speny doubling-back on stoic teachings and reading parenting/leadership/relationship books.

My intent right now is to show her that we can live without her, hopefully removing some of the pressure she surely must have felt. I have avoided contact since Tuesday last week when she said she was coming to get her things and I asked to meet up. This has not been easy. We were terribly close, probably much closer than I can communicate on here. Which is what led to the problems we are having now.

We usually did everything together, and I mean everything. She hasn't gone out with friends by herself often at all(nor me), she hasn't had time in the house to herself, we always worked the same schedules when we were both employed. etc. I understand this sounds terrible and I'm sure part of it was but mostly we enjoyed it and it made us feel special. Ten years on, it has gotten old and I agree with her there.

I know we can save our marriage but we will need boundaries and I worry about how I can communicate that to her while she is not speaking to me. Really I want to know that she will contact me at some point and discuss things. I want to tell her what I've been thinking. Which is:
-We need boundaries.
-We need time with our respective friends.

I used to be so afraid to spend time apart from her, worried it would make our relationship fall apart, now I realize it would have saved it and I would do anything to give it a try. I hope that she will contact me and I love her so much. I read the "180s" and tons of other such advice.

The tact I'm taking is:
-No contact (unless she initiates)
-Forming new habits/rituals
-Improving in the areas that I know she disliked about me (domestic habits, etc)
-No contact with her friends/family (which is difficult because her family is about all my son had for relatives)

Is there anything I can do to show her that I am changing and intend to keep it up? (beyond what I am already doing)
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Old 30th December 2017, 4:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by DKT3 View Post
I disagree Elaine, unless she had no idea he had a son, she should have had a reasonable expectation of his son being there.

I also don't believe that the issue is really his parenting style, her reaction was to quick and she really hadn't had enough time to see his style before the issues arose.

Besides any of that, it still boils down to the fact that she simply doesn't want his son there because she feels it takes attention away from her. No possible way I would want to spend any time with a woman that said that let alone marry her. At that point anything she said, in my opinion, is bull.
I think it's less about that, DKT, and more about the fact that I spent a great deal of time lecturing him over small things that I thought at the time were a big deal. My son was a big liar when he came here and it progressively got better but every time he lied I went on a big rant about it to him.

My wife loves me and my son. She realized I had a son, but I doubt at the beginning of our relationship she could understand what that entailed. She certainly never expected me to gain custody of him, and probably didn't expect to house us while I did so. I understand why that would seem daunting to a young woman and I don't blame her for wanting me to ease up on him and let go of it when I did get angry with him.

Looking back, it's like shouting at a cloud for blocking the sun. He's a kid, these are things kids do, and I as a parent should know better ways of dealing with them. I'm considering a parenting class I just worry that anything I do will appear as pleading, etc.

For now I've been reading, watching videos and going over past incidents in my head.
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Old 30th December 2017, 4:34 PM   #28
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She's not coming back. She's filing for divorce. She's done.

I'm sorry to say but it's over. Did you give her back the debit card? If not, don't. Not without speaking to a lawyer anyway.

She has checked out of the marriage. You're heading for divorce. It would probably be best to try and accept that as your reality because thinking she'll come back to you is really just a wish.
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Old 30th December 2017, 4:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by amaysngrace View Post
She's not coming back. She's filing for divorce. She's done.

I'm sorry to say but it's over. Did you give her back the debit card? If not, don't..
She is the one who is working and the account is in her name and she needs to pay the rent check.
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Old 30th December 2017, 4:49 PM   #30
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She is the one who is working and the account is in her name and she needs to pay the rent check.
I was under the impression that they each have a card. It doesn't matter whose name the account is in, it's joint property if he has access.

He needs to prepare for divorce. Are you a lawyer because he could probably use some legal advice right about now.
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