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Hard time deciding to divorce unstable wife


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I’m right at the precipice of initiating a divorce with my wife of 15 years (27 years together). We have been separated for 7 months, which I initiated. We have no kids.

 

Background: I’m 58, generally easy-going, friendly, typically conflict avoidant, tend toward wanting harmony in my environment. Generally emotionally stable, somewhat introverted, but enjoy social interaction also. Tend to be super responsible.

My wife is 61, strong minded, exudes a powerful stance, not afraid of conflict, emotionally volatile, passionate, outward looking, rather extroverted, likes to challenge, tends to not look inward. Can be bossy and domineering. Does not work, though is well educated with a master’s degree.

 

The pattern in our marriage has been one of considerable ups and downs with the ups revolving around enjoying shared interests together and her moods being more at relative peace or joyful. Too much of the time, however, for me, neither of those are present, conflict exists, fights break out, and I either resist which tends to escalate the fight which generally leads to me giving in, or I simply give in from the start to avoid the fight. There has been a lot of ongoing stress in our live, in large part due to me allowing my wife to continue to instigate home remodel projects that have been very expensive and time consuming.

 

She also tends to spend money excessively. We have a huge credit card debt. Rather than address these and other issues head on, my tendency has been to over-compensate and comply by over-working (take on more and more side-jobs) to make more money and simply do as she wishes. It’s not that I never confront these situations. However, when I have, my experience has been that she creates such a stink about it that I over the years became more and more silent to keep the peace. Of course, resentment has followed resulting in some passive aggressive behavior on my part, having stuffed my anger over the situation.

 

I have been aware of the rather toxic situation for a long time, trying to make personal changes (with therapy and support group work) in order to confront the situation head-on, but never really finding the total courage to do that. I simply couldn’t find the strength and stamina to do it while still living in the house. However, my awareness of the situation became stronger for me and as I began to confront things, our relationship further deteriorated and became to my view too toxic to remain in. Although there has never been any physical violence between us, she has exhibited what I consider to be extreme behavior such has screaming and yelling at the top of her lungs, throwing things (this hasn’t happened in some years), ripping her clothes and scratching herself intensely, rare but occasional threats of suicide, numerous threats of divorce, jumping in our pool with her clothes on, slamming doors, etc.. She never comes back after things calm down to acknowledge or apologize for her behavior. Mostly, she wants to hold me responsible for her acting out behaviors, justifying what she has done.

 

Seven months ago I came to the realization, yet after another fight, that I was done, and needed to leave the toxicity of the house and figure out what I was going to do. I went to stay with a friend where I have been since then. He has been immensely supportive and I am eternally grateful. My wife has not responded well to this at all. She would call me constantly, leaving long somewhat threatening voice mails, etc. When I did choose to answer, our conversation quickly deteriorated into fights, consisting primarily of how cruel I was being, how much she is suffering, how sick she is, all due to "what I have done to her." I have done my best to try and empathize with how much pain she is in and refrain from pointing any fingers at her, working very hard at owning my part in the dysfunction of the marriage, and that what I was doing was once and for all taking loving care of myself and exploring my part in the problems, getting help etc.. I also tried to assert myself, again in non-blaming ways, what had been and hasn’t been working for me and that I am no longer willing to tolerate those behaviors that are not working for me. We started in counseling with me expressing the above, but seemingly no progress. My anxiety over the situation, which hadn’t ever been a problem for me, became so difficult to manage, mostly due to our unproductive and downright damaging phone conversations, that I ended up in the emergency room with an acute panic attack. I found it necessary to go no contact with her for 6 weeks. She called numerous times during that period, but I stuck to my boundary.

 

I got my psychological health back during that period and reached out to her to let her know I was willing to re-engage in counseling with her. That was two months ago. The only productive aspect I have seen during that period has been that I have been showing up more honestly and assertively than I ever have been, speaking my truth in non-blaming or shaming ways. She’s heard my words, but she’s not getting where I am coming from. I have had to go back to no contact between sessions. She doesn’t like or seem to respect any of what I’m doing to stay safe. She comes into session wanting to take over, dominate, and interrupt. If the counselor calls her out, she’s quick to let her know that she’s feeling like she’s being attacked by her, taking sides etc. She wants to get another counselor. This isn’t our first.

I have been holding on to some hope that my boundary setting would eventually, after the initial phase of pushback, create some shift from her toward actually respecting me. It’s clear that that isn’t happening. I’m feeling like it’s time to move on. I’m having a terrible time letting go and I’m scared.

 

I do miss many aspects of our life together. I care about her very much. I’m afraid she might harm herself if/when I do initiate divorce. I don’t know if she would do such a thing, but I’m scared.

 

Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Yep, it's time to walk away. If you continue to engage with her, you will only lose your psychological health again. It's time to make yourself the priority now.

 

I hear you on being concerned that she'll hurt herself - I went through that with my ex who (unsuccessfully) cut his wrists. But you must remember that it is her job to look after herself. You can't stick around being responsible for keeping her alive. If she makes a suicide threat, call emergency services and leave them to deal with her.

 

Given her adversarial nature, get yourself a good lawyer pronto.

 

Good luck with your new future.

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She has been trying to start a new business in a field that is rather experimental. There's not a lot of precedence for what she wants to do or money. She has also gotten side-tracked by house remodel projects.

It has become apparent to me that she's living in a bit of a fantasy about how possible what she wants to do is, and she doesn't want to work for anyone else.

 

We are scheduled to meet with a financial advisor next week to review our spending. I know where all the money is going and what needs to be done, but she won't hear it from me, so I'm going to let a third party illuminate the situation. I can't work any more than I already am, something's got to give:

her excessive spending, she will need to get a job, and the house will need to be sold to pay off the debt - none of which I anticipate her being willing to do.

 

I have enabled this to happen, and I'm now paying dearly for my unwillingness to confront the situation sooner.

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We spoke on the phone today for about a half hour as she asked to be heard out on some things. I just listened.

 

What I'm getting from her is that she is having a very difficult time managing her mind spinning stories and her associated emotions because I haven't been very available to her. My no contact and only meeting in counseling isn't working well for her. She also wants some kind of timeline on how long I am willing to give to try and work things out. Otherwise she feels in limbo and is afraid that at any moment I am going to cut her off financially or have her served. She's terrified and her style of getting control is be confrontational and manipulative. It's also my impression that she wants me to meet her needs so that she will feel better. Then, she says, she'll start behaving in ways that likely will work better for me. She wants to start meeting in public places so we can address things. From the way she has been showing up in counseling, I don't trust her and don't feel safe without a third party present.

 

She has also stated that I'm showing up highly guarded and cold. She's looking for more kindness and warmth from me. She's right, I'm guarded because I've been hurt a lot over the years, and especially in light of her behaviors since I left. I'm not able or willing to let that guard down right now.

 

If she could model something more inviting herself, and take some responsibility for the troubles between us, then I might be able to relax a bit.

But I'm not hearing any of that.

 

Part of me wants to try and meet her needs, but that doesn't seem wise given what's been going on. That's what I used to do too much, and sacrificed my own in the process.

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Soundman,

 

Best I can tell, today's call was all about her trying to suck you back into that vortex/black hole that is her neediness. Certainly sounds manipulative and trying to (still) control you. ("If you do what I want, then and only then, maybe I'll start to do a bit more of what you want." - I wouldn't count on it, right?)

 

I'd offer to trust all your own instincts. Don't meet without a third party (preferably a professional of whatever category) if you don't feel comfortable or strong enough to withstand pressure from her.

(Don't be afraid to admit to yourself if/where you're weak...cos that's the only way you can make sure to have the proper protection/defenses in place.)

 

Her 'mind-spinning' and feeling a bit emotionally off-the-rails - you can sort of liken it to a substance addict going through withdrawal. She's been so used to you being there in whatever capacity, as a crutch, a support, her cheerleader, etc., of course it's going to take some work to start standing on her own and taking responsibility for her own emotions, life, physical needs, etc.

 

Sorry you're going through all of this. It sucks. If you can get to a good financial solution, then divorce is an option because she is not a child and you are not her caretaker. It's not your fault that she has not made herself into a more independent (in all ways) adult.

 

Hugs and best.

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My no contact and only meeting in counseling isn't working well for her. She also wants some kind of timeline on how long I am willing to give to try and work things out. Otherwise she feels in limbo and is afraid that at any moment I am going to cut her off financially or have her served.

 

No matter what her issues are, these are all reasonable complaints.

 

I remember when my ex got mad at me for sitting on the fence and leaving him in limbo about my leaving. I agreed that I was being unfair, so I commenced packing my bags immediately and was gone within the hour. His reaction was exactly what I needed to jolt me into making a decision.

 

Regarding your situation, I can't see that marriage counselling can work if you're in NC during the rest of the time. Shouldn't the two of you be practicing and working through what you're learning?

 

It is unfair to leave her in limbo. Rather than giving her a timeline, give her some tangible goals she would need to meet for you to stay. Perhaps getting real about the financial situation and agreeing to start working and sell the house. Also acknowledging her behaviour and starting therapy to address it. I was going to suggest getting a job, but being an older woman, I'm dubious about how much employment prospects there are for her.

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l dunno man ,don't be so hard on yourself , really your just a peaceful man , there's nothing at all wrong with that brother., lots of peaceful women out there too.

 

But that sort of personality in a women or anyone for that matter, just wares you down and wares you out with it's bs , if it doesn't drive you insane.

l really take my hat off to you living it for so long.

 

l doubt any counseling or help could change her at this stage, think your doing the right thing for yourself .

 

Good luck.

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Thanks for all your responses. Much appreciated.

 

It's true, I almost got sucked back into her neediness. Fortunately, I know better not to make decisions without sitting with things first and/or reaching out to a good trusted friend. I did just that and he helped get me back to sanity.

 

Re: BPD, I've read about it in the past and on and off over the years when things seemed crazy. Some of it relates to my situation but I've been reluctant to go down that path of diagnosing her with such a disorder. If it's a spectrum sort of thing, then maybe she's on it somewhere.

 

I let her know yesterday that I would call her back today regarding her requests to meet more often. I'm going to let her know that I'm not ready, I don't feel safe enough to do that, especially considering what I experienced with her in our last session (ambushed me by bringing our dogs, whom I miss dearly and haven't seen in 7 months to the session with out running that by me first, as well as got combative with the therapist when she was called out for her dominating and invalidating behavior, and proceeded to try and take over the session with how she thinks it should be run, then showed up at my office uninvited not to apologize but to justify her actions), and as well as over the past 7 months.

 

I'll tell her I appreciate the offer, that I appreciated some of what I heard from her the other day, that I love her, care about her, and want to know what's going on in her life (she has complained I haven't even been asking), but until she can begin showing behaviors that I've expressed will work for me, and take some ownership of her part in how things haven't been working, I will need a third person present.

 

As for the timeline request, I get how difficult that can be for her. I'm struggling some with that one. The best I can do now is commit to our next two appointments: one next Tuesday with the financial advisor to review our situation, and the other the following Saturday, and hour and half with our MC, to see how those two sessions play out. The financial piece is huge, and we haven't even addressed that yet.

She threw out a month to month thing as timeline option. I'm considering that, but I'm so close to being done that I don't even know I can make it that long. If I commit to that and then decide two weeks down the road I have had a enough, I'll either have to break my agreement with her which won't feel right, or string her along another two weeks which will likewise feel dishonest. I haven't quite settled on that one yet and have got a few hours to figure that out.

 

Thanks again folks for all your feedback.

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Remember that a financial adviser will only advise you what is best for you as a married couple. He won't know anything about divorce law. If you're going to divorce then the advice you receive might be incredibly bad! Remember the scene in Shawshank Redemption where the tax adviser advises the guard to put a monetary windfall in his wife's name to save tax...? He first asked if he trusted his wife, because if their marriage was on the rocks, it would have been a very foolish thing to do.

 

I'd advise you to (individually) see a divorce lawyer as well as a financial adviser, to get both sides of the story.

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Why would you stay with a woman who was bad for your mental health? She wants you to continue to be her financial plow horse so she can live in her fantasy world and spend your money while belittling you.

 

It won't be easy or fun in the short term, but longer term you will be way healthier and happier without her. Set her and yourself free. You will always regret staying with her. It is truly unhealthy for you.

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The financial adviser knows upfront that we are currently separated and that we are looking for help managing our finances while separated, as far more money is going out than is coming in. I know what needs to be done - I'm an accountant by trade - but she won't hear it from me. Let someone else state the obvious, and she can choose to respond however she wishes. I'm going to keep my mouth shut in the meeting. Maybe she will wake up and realize she has to take some responsibility, maybe not. That's information for me, one more piece, and a big one, to see if I have someone as a partner willing to have a real relationship or not.

 

I've spoken to a divorce attorney and know that once I file, she becomes on the hook for any "wasteful" spending she incurs. Within a month of so of filing a judge will force a temporary spousal maintenance arrangement that can only be better than how things are now.

 

This scheduled meeting is one I've been waiting for for over a month, with rescheduling and such. I consider it an important step in this process.

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notbroken: Although I did have some strong anxiety issues around my wife's behavior a couple of months ago, I'm not willing to blame her directly for that.

It's how I handled our conversations, and came as a result of not creating and then enforcing strong boundaries. Once I did that, my anxiety reduced significantly and I quite rapidly improved, regardless of her behavior.

 

We've been together for 27 years. Much of that time was fine, sometimes very enjoyable, warm, and easy-going. Other times, and for me I now realize, too much of the time, it was not. I allowed it and it became a habit between us.

I'm finally doing something about it. I will not go back to the way things were.

Everything I am currently doing, sometimes successfully, sometimes less so, is an effort to grow up and not put myself into situations that aren't healthy. I haven't 100% yet given up with my wife. And it's clear I still have plenty of work and growing to do.

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I was married for 26 years (and together for almost 30). We were codependent, she was like an addiction really. I thought we would be married forever. I agonized over divorce for a few years. I know now that I could never have been happy with her again. Just too much water under the bridge that was bad and too hard to change old ingrained habits for both of us. I am an improved version now and she probably is too (6 years after divorce). Divorce was very hard but worth it. It was very unhealthy for us - both physically and mentally to stay together. I read much of the same things in what you write. Fear - of change, failure, etc is what keeps many people together. Honestly, I just don't see how a guy can go from being physically and mentally unwell around his wife (even due to his own reactions) to being happy with her in a reasonable amount of time. Life is short. I'm afraid you are prolonging your pain. In either case, make a decision one way or another, commit to it, and execute it to the best of your abilities. Best wishes for sure.

 

Your wife has been spoiled for many years. You have enabled that. Even if you stop enabling her, she won't change easily. It may not even be possible for her to. Most people can't change such ingrained habits without something very forceful (like divorce). Again, life is short. I hope you find happiness. It will be difficult either way. Decide if it is possible with her. It definitely is without her though it is a tough road.

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SoundMan...

 

Been there done that, please divorce.

 

You have no idea how much happier you can be with out this in your life.

 

Please believe me. Again, been there done that...

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If you decide that you can't do it anymore, it's perfectly acceptable to break your month by month agreement. To be honest, if you're that far gone, you shouldn't be making any agreements at all!!

 

With your current strategy, your wife will not change. I can say this confidently because she's not showing any signs of *wanting* to change.

 

Cut your losses and get out of there.

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Boy oh boy. That sounds like quite a frustrating situation. I read that you have been in counseling, and you two have tried counseling together. I didn't see anywhere in your post that she has tried counseling. Perhaps that might be a good idea? It seems to me that she has some serious issues she needs to work out with someone.

 

Since you wrote that you still have feelings for her, maybe helping her get help might provide a tiny path that over time could lead to reconciliation and a healed marriage.

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Yeah on the other hand , l agree too with pete .

l mean if you'd rather save your marriage if only, and still love her , you could see what happens for awhile.

With this hanging over her head maybe it wakes things up a bit.

Would she'd admit to any problems and agree to see someone, do you think she'd be capable of working on it and improving, or want too.

Maybe she starts to acknowledge things and tries some help , maybe she wants to improve once she realizes.

But l know from experience if not , then l just never saw a way to win the battle myself.

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Soundman, I agree with Steve that you are describing many of the classic warning signs for BPD. Specifically, the suicide threats, controlling actions, temper tantrums, impulsiveness (binge spending), being "emotionally volatile," always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your W exhibits full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I suggesting that she may be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of BPD.

 

If it's a spectrum sort of thing, then maybe she's on it somewhere.
You are correct. BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your ex fiancé exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, cold withdrawal, and temper tantrums.

 

Re: BPD... Some of it relates to my situation but I've been reluctant to go down that path of diagnosing her with such a disorder.
There is a world of difference between making a diagnosis (the province of professionals) and simply spotting warning signs (the province of laymen). By definition, a behavioral symptom is something that laymen are able to spot whenever that symptom is strong.

 

This is why, when laymen are unable to spot the symptoms of a disease or mental disorder, that disorder is said to be "asymptomatic," i.e., "without symptoms." And this is why hundreds of mental health facilities post the symptoms for BPD on their public websites to tell the lay public which warning signs to look for.

 

Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur if you learn what warning signs to look for.

 

...ripping her clothes and scratching herself intensely, rare but occasional threats of suicide....
"Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats" is one of the 9 defining symptoms for BPD. Because that trait also includes "self harming behavior, such as cutting," you might want to check her arms/legs for razor scars. You will find the complete list of BPD symptoms at 9 BPD Traits at NIMH.

 

I was willing to re-engage in counseling with her.
If she is a BPDer, marriage counseling likely will be a total waste of time until she has had several years of intensive therapy to acquire the emotional skills she had no opportunity to learn in childhood. Although MCs generally are very good at teaching basic communication skills, a BPDer's issues are far more serious.

 

A BPDer needs to learn, for example, how to do self soothing, how to regulate all of her emotions, how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating strong mixed feelings, how to trust, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts," how to control impulses instead of doing binge spending, and how to stay aware of the present instead of escaping through daydreams into the past and future. Absent those skills, she must continue to rely on the primitive ego defenses used by young children: projection, denial, temper tantrums, magical thinking, and black-white thinking.

 

Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Soundman, I suggest you consult with a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you take another look at the red flags for BPD.

 

As I cautioned above, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid remaining in a toxic marriage and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. And Sal provides a concise and insightful account of what it's like to live with a BPDer for 23 years in his 3/16 post. If those descriptions ring many bells and raise questions, I would be glad to join Steve and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Soundman.

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Downtown, thank you for your reply and concern about possible BPD with my wife and your suggestion to look into this possibility more thoroughly.

I read Walking on Eggshells some years ago and in the end concluded that although I could relate to some of it, not all of it, and even that which I related to was not strong. I went through your list of warning signs three times since I've read your message, and each and every time come up with the same takeaway. There are really only two on the list that I identify with rather strongly, #10, her tendency to play the victim and hold me responsible for the problems with our relationship and to some extent, mostly since I left the house, for the problems she now appears to be struggling with in her life (because I left). The other is #18, which is more about simply her thinking her experience is factual truth, that she seems to have a hard time seeing that truth can be relative and that it's possible we can each have our own truth and that not one is any more "right" than the other. To be honest, I have some difficulty with this one too sometimes, but at least I'm willing to look at it and ultimately except it. There are a few others that I relate to somewhat but still not very much, such as #'s 1, 2, 14, 15. This leaves me with, yeah, she appears to exhibit some BPD traits, but not enough of them nor strong enough for me to believe this is the predominate issue or disorder I am dealing with. BPD light perhaps.

 

I also read your responses in the Rebel thread and did relate to aspects of what you shared regarding the challenges of separating and letting go of your W. Namely your sharing of your story of healing around your inner child work: My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

 

This is why learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (codependency) is the easy part. What is difficult is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming that knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts. Simply stated, I had to persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own codependency are correct. Had I failed in that effort, I would have remain stuck in a destructive pattern -- repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots.

 

This I wish to understand more. I believe I have a pretty strong intellectual understanding of what's been going on, particularly regarding my own work around codependency (I've been sitting in Codependency Anonymous groups for the past 7 months). What I'm having a hard time doing is bringing my feelings in line with my intellectual knowledge. My therapist began talking about inner child work in my last session and I am going to request we make this the focus of our work moving forward. I did some personal work around this some months ago from a book where I tried writing where my adult self would dialog with my little self. I was never able to get past the idea that if and when my little self spoke, so to speak, that it was simply my mind making that up from the same adult self. I couldn't trust it was truly my inner child speaking, just wishful thinking on my part.

 

Finally, I met with my wife for the first time yesterday in a public place to review a few nuts and bolts things that she needed some help with. In deciding whether not to meet her, I found a way to make it about me by setting up a time limit and subject matter boundary, that if and when either of those felt threatened, I would politely leave. The nuts and bolts meeting went well and on schedule, then she asked, well she didn't really ask, to speak a little bit about furthering our therapy appointments, as our last session was a wreck and she felt the MC did not steward the session appropriately, which I agree with. I allowed that to happen discussion to happen. I ended up giving her a name of another person who comes highly recommended from some trusted friends and she said she would give her a call.

 

What happened from there was just what I didn't want to happen. I allowed the conversation to veer into relationship talk and found myself becoming increasing angry with myself for letting it happen. At the same time, because the talk didn't really feel like an argument, and I kept telling myself maybe we can make some progress here, I talked myself into staying with the conversation. I became stuck in a tug of war between wanting to stay talking and wanting to leave. The old familiar feeling of feeling somewhat weak around her (versus any time during the rest of my life anywhere else in my life) came back, even though I was able to assert my feelings and needs here and there.

 

One particular experience I seemed to be able to get across is that I tend to lose myself in her presence (mostly when we are in conflict) and that's very troubling to me, and I'm working hard to regain my personal strength in therapy and group. She seemed to be able to hear that and honor that. Her personality, energy, and ability to express herself is stronger than mine. It's very difficult for me not to feel somehow inferior or weak in comparison and this really bothers me. Why am I having such a hard time feeling "equal" to her when I don't have this problem anywhere else in my life? If there is ever a disagreement between us, she seems to have the upper hand.

 

After about an hour or so, I found a way to leave, but we didn't really end on a good note. The conversation continued on the phone and I found my anger (something I have had a very hard time accessing and expressing) coming up strong and allowed myself to express myself from this place. I had to raise my voice loudly, yelling really, that I can no longer tolerate her talking about me (this is one of my greatest frustrations - her tendency to think she knows me and what's best for me better than I do and insistence on letting me know). I told her I have had enough of this and that if I heard anything like that again, I'm done.

 

What happened after that was impressive: in a very calm and articulate way she spent the next 5 minutes talking about her feelings and impressions of what is going on with us, that she's concerned we are simply in very different places, and that we may just need to accept this and move on, although she's not convinced this is the case in total. On two occasions she started to slightly veer into "you" territory, and quickly caught herself and turned it back to herself. When she was done I thanked her for sharing in a way that truly worked for me.

 

The best little takeaway for me from this was that I was able to access my anger and assert myself in such a way that she actually changed, for a moment anyway, and expressed herself appropriately. I don't like yelling - it doesn't feel right, but curiously enough she seems comfortable with that style of fighting - to her it's working things out - so maybe I need to accept that perhaps at times it might be appropriate.

 

Anyway, progress? Probably not really, but maybe a little.

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Downtown, I went through your list of warning signs three times since I've read your message, and each and every time come up with the same takeaway. There are really only two on the list that I identify with rather strongly.
That's great news, Soundman. BPD is a painful condition that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. If your W had been exhibiting a pattern of strong BPD symptoms for 27 years, you would have seen them repeatedly. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to be able to spot these symptoms.

 

This leaves me with, yeah, she appears to exhibit some BPD traits.
As I noted earlier, we all exhibit the nine BPD symptoms to some degree. These behaviors generally are ego defenses we need for survival. They become a problem only when they are so strong and persistent that they undermine our relationships with others.

 

What I'm having a hard time doing is bringing my feelings in line with my intellectual knowledge.... I tried writing where my adult self would dialog with my little self.
I had the same problem, as I noted. My personal experience is that my "inner child" (i.e., the intuitive part of my mind) learns little or nothing from hearing abstract concepts, well-reasoned arguments, or logical information. The child seems to learn, instead, from emotional experiences. And the more emotionally intense an experience is, the faster it is able to learn.

 

Hence, what seemed to most effective in helping my inner child catch up with the intellectual understanding of my adult mind was to talk and write about my issues with anybody who would talk or write back. By carrying on a dialogue with others, I was in touch with my emotions while discussing the logical thoughts. In this way, my mind learned to associate the intellectual thoughts with actual feelings, i.e., with the emotions that are the basis of learning for the intuitive mind.

 

Of course, your friends' eyes will glaze over -- and their minds will wander -- after you talk with them for only a few hours. This is one reason I highly recommend an online relationship forum like LoveShack, which serves many valuable purposes.

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You have a backbone and that is so good to see. Congrats on getting away from this situation and your willingness to give up material things for the sake of your sanity. Stay strong and stay the course. Don't give into her ploys. She is ill and needs to get strong on her own without you.

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