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-   -   Wife wants to separate (https://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/641861-wife-wants-separate)

nyclion 5th November 2017 9:28 AM

Wife wants to separate
 
My wife and I have been together 14 years and married 13 years. We have 2 kids aged 6 and 7. I am 39, she is 37.
The first 7 years were great, life got harder when the kids came along and my job is very stressful and time-consuming. My wife felt I did not prioritize her enough, and the resulting emotional attacks and criticism just pushed me away more.
We were in marriage counseling for 1 year (my wife's idea). I was fully engaged with it and trying hard but now she has given up on the marriage counseling and will not go anymore.
Her main complaints are lack of emotional connection, lack of empathy, lack of eye contact, not taking her opinions into account.
I have tried taking her out for dinner, inviting away for the weekend just the two of us, coming home early from work. She says it is too little too late - I should have done these before when she was receptive.
People say I am a great dad. All I do with my life is work, provide for my family, and take my kids places at the weekend. It feels like we are constantly pulling in different directions.
About a month ago she said that she does not love me anymore (although sometimes she says that she still does). She wants us to live apart and see if that space can help us rekindle the relationship. In her words, the separation could be temporary or permanent. She harbors so much resentment and is always angry with me. She cannot forgive and continually brings up events that happened 10+ years ago.
There is no addiction, abuse, infidelity (that I am aware of - have asked her several times). Her mum is ill with cancer and a poor prognosis, which could be a factor. She was depressed earlier in the year , fortunately she has recovered but is still on the meds. Neither of us has family in the US.
I still love her and don't want to separate but being in a loveless marriage is no fun either.
My wife does voluntary work (no paid work) so I will need to pay high child support and alimony if we separate. Our apartment is expensive and my wife has high-spending habits (nanny 10 hours per week, after-school 4 days per week, cleaner, out-of-network individual counselling, frequent overseas trips etc). Having a strict budget will be a shock for her. I doubt she could afford to keep the apartment based on the payments, which makes me worried about the destabilizing impact on the kids.
I would take legal advice from an attorney before moving out (and perhaps go for a legal separation).
Looking for any advice:
- Should I continue to pursue her and try to win her heart back? Or just back off and give her space? How could I do that without leaving the apartment?
- Does anybody have any experience with a trial separation actually working and helping the marriage in the long term?
- When she realizes the financial reality of separation (paying 2 apartments so very little disposable income) will that change her views, or will women prioritize their emotional goals?

Marc878 5th November 2017 9:36 AM

Never leave your home!!!!

Check your phone bill. Is there another man in the mix?

Separation can be used to spend more time with another man.

It would pay you to do some investigation. Don't ask. If this is the case you won't get the truth and you'll just tip your hand too early.

Marc878 5th November 2017 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc878 (Post 7459360)
Never leave your home!!!!

Check your phone bill. Is there another man in the mix?

Separation can be used to spend more time with another man.

It would pay you to do some investigation. Don't ask. If this is the case you won't get the truth and you'll just tip your hand too early.

From what I've seen separation is a prelude to divorce. You can't work on a marriage or anything apart. Real bad idea.

CautiouslyOptimistic 5th November 2017 9:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7459351)
- Does anybody have any experience with a trial separation actually working and helping the marriage in the long term?
- When she realizes the financial reality of separation (paying 2 apartments so very little disposable income) will that change her views, or will women prioritize their emotional goals?

There is usually already someone else waiting in the wings when one partner wants a "trial separation."

But, yes, it's entirely probably that all of the stress and bills of being on her own will snap her back into reality. Up to you if you want to wait around for that.

It doesn't really seem fair that she gets to exit the relationship and you have to pay for it all. Is she planning on getting a job?

Marc878 5th November 2017 9:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CautiouslyOptimistic (Post 7459364)
There is usually already someone else waiting in the wings when one partner wants a "trial separation."

But, yes, it's entirely probably that all of the stress and bills of being on her own will snap her back into reality. Up to you if you want to wait around for that.

It doesn't really seem fair that she gets to exit the relationship and you have to pay for it all. Is she planning on getting a job?

Once infidelity occurs if this is the case it changes everything.

Is that something you could accept? Live with? It never goes away.

Better think long term and about what you want.

IMO if she insists on a separation I'd give her a permanent one. File for D and move on with your life.

It's a shock upfront.

If you do the pick me dance try nicing her back it'll put you in a worse position.

A hard 180 is your best bet

Read it carefully and fully understand it
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/brea...ration-divorce

Tonofbricks 5th November 2017 11:50 AM

Know it sounds simplistic but if she refuses to work on the M, then it's over.
I would look for evidence of OM. Normally a woman would not leave a home, children and her "life" for the unknown...especially one without income. Would the discovery of OM make your choice easier?

The thing that stuck out to me was your work load and hers. Spending habits and nanny ect are expensive and she was working without pay? Did she complain about your financial situation?

maxi105 5th November 2017 12:18 PM

oh dear, where to start with this one? well, there is no good way so here goes.... the one things that it is clear from your post is that your wife is TIRED!

I think it would probably do you both some good to separate for a while, even if its spending time for a few days, months whatever she feels may assist things; with friends or family, or if you are able take a break, not easy I know for the time of year and with the different work situations and the fact that you also have children etc...but I feel l you do need space.

one of the overriding factors here now is that her mother has cancer!!!!! so even if she hasn't asked you directly for space it is clear she needs it.

I kind of think you are jumping the gun with attorney's advice just yet; there is no harm in getting it, but I feel there are more pressing matters that need discussion between you and her, not you and a third party (who may drain your finances even more) at a time when you need to be trying to look at what's going on now, rather than spending what might be better saved at his time.

as for the self professed or god forbid a private detective route? forget it, unless you want to have your wife's contempt and anger thrown at you for the rest of your "divorced" life!!!!

you have children remember, do you think any sort of detection games isn't going to involve your children emotionally in some biased or covert way?... that is not the respectful or morally ethical answer in your particular situation

- if you are serious in trying to sort equal commitment issues and behavioural issues connected to your relationship then you need to think in a mature and sensible way, to show her you are stable and worth thinking about getting back with!

If she has had an affair which you say she hasn't and feel no suspicion of at present, then for now work with that good thing and don't allow other insecurities and additional hurdles to become another reason for her not to talk to you or to hate you more than she does when she is cross with you.

ok, so if she doesn't love you and doesn't want you, you will have to deal with that; yes of course that may change and at least she is offering a chance for that to be tested, but for the present time; she doesn't sound like she wants you - and unfortunately you have to respect that 100% until or unless she changes her thoughts.

people don't get tired of relationships overnight, it's a build-up of things and more often than not, its hindsight or ultimatums or desperate threats that are often when people (ie the other partner/person) start to wake up to their situations and look at their contributing behaviours'.

if your wife is sure she no longer loves you, but is willing to give one more chance then I'm afraid I feel you have to go with her and just hope for the best. do your best, but tread carefully.

she is in a tired, angry and emotional place right now, what she doesn't need is someone who cannot show her respect, who will cling to her like a child at all costs when she needs to channel her energy for her mother, the home and children, and however well meaning you are trying to be, what she wont want is you trying to force what she doesn't want naturally just because you love her.

separation may not be the end, you might learn something valuable through this, but I think you ought to see it as a red flag that it could very well be the end.

if later on she loves you or things change in her personal situation then she might have more time to consider you and your feelings.

it's a very tricky situation, and however you look at it, it doesn't look that great; however - under the circumstances of what you've said, I feel it's best to prepare yourself for the worst and give her some space.

Is there any way that she can move out of the home for a while as she is not working, or is it more convenient to care for her mother or visit her from where you live?

you might find some more helpful insights from other peoples trial separations, but I'm not sure in a situation like yours, unless people have very similar situations it could really let you know for sure what to expect.
what other people think (i.e. that you are a good dad, etc...) is great of course, but that won't shield you from being a great single father or great dad who doesn't have access to all of his children etc...what worked for Henry, janey or Billy may not work for you; or if it did work for them it might give you false hopes only to have it come crashing down on you.

there is a lot of things here that I fear may not be salvageable, but I could be wrong, and time away may save you both; but I suspect this lady has had a lot of time to think (and has resented you lack of relationship contribution) for a long time, and so now she has been left alone in her own thoughts and feelings (despite counselling) to know that this IS what she now wants for certain.

one of the hardest things to change is when people know for sure what they want!!!!! especially where love is concerned. so if she is sure you're better accepting this however painful it will be for you and your family.

there are a lot of emotions mixed in here too, but if anything can save you, I think it will be time and letting those emotions play out in their own time...so again i think you need to be prepared to wait a long time only to face the possibility of still getting rejected; but I think sadly, it is your only option.

although she has said positively that she will give a trial separation the chance to see if it can heal how she is feeling - even if she does go back to you, I feel you have a lot of work to do if you are not both going to fall into the old ways again.

if she is still bringing up things that happened 10 years ago! then that really doesn't sound like a healthy place for either of you.

another thing that is apparent here from what you've said is that it is your wife who is still taking all the initiative!!!! if you are serious about winning her back or are lucky enough to convince her to stay with you (and I'm not altogether sure that's what she really wants at this point!!!) but of course things can and do sometimes change - then IF you get another chance with her you need to take you part in the relationship a lot more seriously and pro-actively than it sounds like you have done in the past.

I think you need to talk seriously with her whatever happens, for starters regarding the over spending issues (especially if she is not working)!

look at what she wants in terms of time away from you and talk to her to find out exactly what that means and maybe get a time scale so you know you won't be hanging on forever for her, if she has already decided but not told you she isn't coming back.

it's a sad tale as you obviously love her a lot, but love children and having a stable setting is not enough always, who knows, I might be very wrong and she does come out of this willing to refresh things with you, but I feel too much has gone on emotionally for her the way things stand right now, and now she has her mother with cancer to care and worry about on top of everything else.

maybe instead of thinking about how this affects your love for her (because it doesn't, its clear you love her very much), put yourself in her shoes! she is telling you she is tired and she needs to have time to re-charge her batteries,

if you don't give her that I think you will lose her for sure, and if you do give her this then it's a high risk of a lengthy separation that may not guarantee anything positive in the long run, but at least there is always a chance - however slim and you may have more respect if you do separate for the sake of the children and how you interact in front of them.

once she has decided, (then) maybe look to the legalities of it all. but like i say there is no harm in getting advice before if you want to know where you and your family will be as a result this complex situation; just if you can get that advice for free or one that isn't so costly until you need to spend.

what would happen if you got this advice and spent on a solicitor only to find that she's willing to give it another go or you separate, but no legal actions kick in for another 6 or so months to a year due to the situation with her mother.

this may not help you in the way you need, I don't know, but I'm sure others on this site will be able to offer you advice that can help you get a better perspective on how things are and things to look out for.

just remember she is in a fragile place right now, doing anything that will anger or upset her further won't do you any favors!

Very very good luck!!!! but I think you have a mountain to climb with this one, sorry! but good luck none the less. maxi.

marky00 5th November 2017 12:29 PM

maxi, you talk like this woman is a queen or princess :)


I actually don't agree with most of what u said except for the part of respecting her space due to her mum having cancer etc.


you tell the OP not to become clingy yet you have gone to great length to give many reasons why he should be worried which leads to guess what - clingy behaviour.

Marc878 5th November 2017 1:01 PM

She's a stay at home mom with a nanny and she's tired?

Total BS. I was a stay at home dad for awhile without a nanny and yep it's hard work but cmon.

nyclion 5th November 2017 1:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc878 (Post 7459360)
Never leave your home!!!!

Check your phone bill. Is there another man in the mix?

I haven't seen any evidence of an OM. This has been a gradual downhill slide in the marriage over the last 2 years, esp. in how she is feeling. She does not want to separate until Jan because she is too busy with travel in November, and wants to have December as a family for the holidays. So it feels like there is no big urgency on her part to shack up with somebody else. Also, she never spends the night outside the apartment.

That said, I get where you are coming from. I'd be a fool if I wasn't cautious and on the lookout for the signs.

Marc878 5th November 2017 1:16 PM

Better protect yourself financially. From what you've posted I'd cut off her finances. I'm assuming you're paying for her November travel, etc. why?

She has house cleaners, nanny, etc and she doesn't work?

Maybe you like many have done too much for her and she's lost respect and taken advantage of her lazy lifestyle.

Hard 180 and go you're own way. Let her move out you stay put if you're smart

Be prepared and see an attorney yesterday

nyclion 5th November 2017 1:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CautiouslyOptimistic (Post 7459364)
It doesn't really seem fair that she gets to exit the relationship and you have to pay for it all. Is she planning on getting a job?

She isn't looking for a job currently. She doesn't really have any direct qualifications/experience for a job in the US. We met when I was working abroad, and she spent the first few years of our marriage in Europe learning English. Then she did a post-grad in Europe and got a job but within a year we moved to the US for my work. Then came the kids, and that was a full-time job when they were little, and financially there was no pressing need for her to work. None of her qualifications are "valid" in this country, she would need to start from zero. Plenty of qualifications and courses but no career. Hence the voluntary work, which is really interesting stuff in her field of interest. She has spent the last couple of years looking for a job, but it is easy to be choosy if the spouse is earning.
If/when we separate I guess she will need to widen her scope and be less choosy about the job.

2.50 a gallon 6th November 2017 12:33 AM

"travel in November"? Sounds expensive
Where is she going and is she taking the kids?
It sounds like you are doing the pick me dance. It never works!
See and attorney and find out what is what, like yesterday!

PegNosePete 6th November 2017 3:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7459476)
I haven't seen any evidence of an OM.

That changes nothing. It just means she's good at hiding it. If I were you I'd go into full detective mode ASAP. Check phone bills, look for other signs, GPS track her phone, even a VAR velcroed under her car seat or hidden in the living room or bedroom.

You need to see a lawyer NOW. Most do a free initial consultation so you lose nothing, but stand to gain a lot of knowledge and information about your financial and legal position. Importantly you need to know what NOT to do. Mistakes now could be very costly down the road. You need to tell the lawyer everything you've written here about her earning potential. If she has a post-grad then she certainly has a higher income capacity than a shelf stacker. It might not be "valid" over there but it proves she has knowledge and skills, although she might need a refresher course if she's been out of work for a long time.

Do NOT move out. Tell her that you want to work on the marriage but if she's not willing to work on it then you'll accept her decision, and if she wants a "trial separation", then she is free to leave at any time. If you move out then you will end up renting an apartment and paying for her to live in the family home too. She will be sitting pretty.

Don't believe any of her BS about coming back. A trial separation is almost always a prelude to divorce. Taking it in bite size chunks rather than swallowing it whole. What is it a "trial" of exactly? Don't accept this rubbish about building attraction whilst having time apart, that is just meaningless waffle. It is a trial of "can I manage on my own?". The answer is almost always "yes I am much happier without the emotional drain of a failing marriage (and communication with the other man is much easier now I don't have to hide it)".

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7459486)
If/when we separate I guess she will need to widen her scope and be less choosy about the job.

Keep guessing! She will fight tooth and nail to keep hold of her care-free lifestyle funded by YOU.

She will do everything she can to prove to a court that she hasn't worked in a long time and has no earning potential, and that you have set a precedent of supporting her and the family for many years. She will claim that a joint lives order and lifelong alimony is necessary to maintain the lifestyle to which she and the kids have become accustomed.

This is why you need to see a lawyer ASAP. You need to be pre-emptive and prepared here. When the "my client believes..." letters start arriving, you need to have a course of action already planned out. You need to skip the "she says WHAT!!!" angry stage by preparing a game plan.

Now maybe I'm wrong and she will get a job and be reasonable in her divorce settlement requests. But still you lose nothing by being prepared. Your mantra should become, "hope for the best, prepare for the worst".

S2B 6th November 2017 4:04 AM

She wants a separation? She wants a new place to live?

Then tell her to get a JOB now and pay for it all!!!

Who cares if she's capable of a big time job - she needs to start somewhere so she may as well start now!

You've pampered her lifestyle and now she's spoiled - so start putting your earnings in a separate account in your name only. Give her minimal money to run the household.

No more extras. No housekeeper and no shopping money.


These are HER consequences when she wants to break up the family and be on her own.

Get a camera for the home and hide it. You can see real time on your phone what she's doing and you can hear her conversations too. Do not tell her it's there.

Start pulling back - and show her that she's gonna have a different lifestyle since she wants to be on her own.

See an attorney - you need to know where you stand legally. You also need her working asap so your support money isn't as high as if she isn't working.

Also, don't pay for her vacation! She can figure out how to pay for it! She sees you as a chump! Stop funding her cushy lifestyle.

Tell her that the holiday season is ruined due to her inability to commit to the marriage and your not gonna put on a happy face just because of a holiday.

BarbedFenceRider 6th November 2017 7:44 AM

Monkey branching, Hypergamy..Whatever, you choose! One does not come out to the SO and say they are leaving and NOT have a plan in place. You are an effective wallet and security blanket. If your cool with that, then all is well. But if you really want a good, healthy marriage and family, this ain't it! Period.

road 6th November 2017 8:32 AM

Time for you to get evidence for women do not leave
their husbands unless they have already have his replacement
in place, an affair.

Refuse to separated or move out. Offer marriage counseling.
Though separate your finances to protect yourself.

Hide a VAR in your wife's car and another one in the house
were she takes most of her phone calls.

With out telling WW do the following:

Check the phone bills for any number/s that you do not
know but there are a lot of calls to and from.

Put a real time GPS on WW car. Activate the GPS on WW phone.

Check WW phone. Also does WW guard her phone? Another
bad sign.

CautiouslyOptimistic 6th November 2017 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7459476)
I haven't seen any evidence of an OM. This has been a gradual downhill slide in the marriage over the last 2 years, esp. in how she is feeling. She does not want to separate until Jan because she is too busy with travel in November, and wants to have December as a family for the holidays. So it feels like there is no big urgency on her part to shack up with somebody else. Also, she never spends the night outside the apartment.

That said, I get where you are coming from. I'd be a fool if I wasn't cautious and on the lookout for the signs.

Maybe the other man had to give a 60 day notice on his lease so he's not available until January.

simpleNfit 6th November 2017 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc878 (Post 7459361)
From what I've seen separation is a prelude to divorce. You can't work on a marriage or anything apart. Real bad idea.

I suggested a separation months before I left with my own kids. My ex thought it would be a good way to work on things separately, but my intention was never to get back together. I made that crystal clear to her, but that didn't stop her from moving clear across the country w/o discussion to be closer to me to 'work things out.' Ugh.

Separations are mostly a euphemism for dating someone else until they find someone new and/or divorce. Just my view.

jjgitties 6th November 2017 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7459351)
She was depressed earlier in the year , fortunately she has recovered but is still on the meds.

As others have said, usually asking for separation is a kinder and polite way to ask for divorce. Either way, you need to deal with it and start realizing this might be a divorce.

I do notice the above though.. and also the comments of how she says she doesn't love you anymore but then also sometimes says she does and also how she brings up things from 10+ years ago.

Why are you so sure she is not depressed and has recovered? Maybe she has a depression problem. Maybe you need to accept and face that the person you married is depressed and that is a part of her and you either come to terms with it and accept it and whatever comes along with it or leave her and move on with your life.

S2B 6th November 2017 6:18 PM

There are times when an antidepressant causes a person to not have much of a conscience... allowing the depressed person to engage in things they would normally deem unacceptable... but somehow the medication takes away their conscience.


Maybe the medicine has made your wife really not care?

marky00 6th November 2017 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simpleNfit (Post 7460138)
I suggested a separation months before I left with my own kids. My ex thought it would be a good way to work on things separately, but my intention was never to get back together. I made that crystal clear to her, but that didn't stop her from moving clear across the country w/o discussion to be closer to me to 'work things out.' Ugh.

Separations are mostly a euphemism for dating someone else until they find someone new and/or divorce. Just my view.

lol, so u say u made it crystal clear, yet you openly admit you lied by suggested a separation when u had already decided you wanted a divorce.

that was a pretty gutless move.

marky00 6th November 2017 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjgitties (Post 7460287)
As others have said, usually asking for separation is a kinder and polite way to ask for divorce. Either way, you need to deal with it and start realizing this might be a divorce.

kinder for the one asking for the divorce :)

sugar coating breakups = selfishness

ayoung73 7th November 2017 2:19 AM

I see only one course of action: lay it out on the line, confront her, advise her of the situation and find a way to work on the relationship while living together. You both have expressed a desire to work on the relationship, but if separation is inevitable, get the attorney and obtain full custody of the children since she is not working. Ultimately, do you want to save this marriage? If not, get the attorney, get full custody, and move on; if not, work together and repair the marriage! Either way you may have to retain an attorney, especially if she’s being unreasonable. I will include your family in my prayers, father almighty give this family peace and healing, unite them once again as a family and make their lives that much better! Amen.

jjgitties 7th November 2017 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marky00 (Post 7460466)
kinder for the one asking for the divorce :)

sugar coating breakups = selfishness

what's the right way to do it then? go kicking and screaming and cussing at them. if a person wants out then they want out -- but that does not mean they need to loose all their manners and not be civil about it.

PegNosePete 7th November 2017 6:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjgitties (Post 7460661)
what's the right way to do it then? go kicking and screaming and cussing at them. if a person wants out then they want out -- but that does not mean they need to loose all their manners and not be civil about it.

Eh? It is perfectly possible to tell your spouse you want a divorce and are not open to reconciliation and to make it clear that this is a permanent separation not a "trial", without screaming, cussing, or losing of manners.

The right way to go about it would be honest, open and pragmatic but firm and decisive.

jjgitties 7th November 2017 6:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PegNosePete (Post 7460668)
Eh? It is perfectly possible to tell your spouse you want a divorce and are not open to reconciliation and to make it clear that this is a permanent separation not a "trial", without screaming, cussing, or losing of manners.

The right way to go about it would be honest, open and pragmatic but firm and decisive.

thats assuming you are a "pragmatic and decisive" person to begin with. There are people in this world who are not "pragmatic and decisive" and just go about life that way. They get into marrages not being particularly "pragmatic and decisive" and agree with the other "pragmatic and decisive" person who dragged/cohersced them into it.

at the same token, there are people who are not "pragmatic and decisive" who become miserable and unhappy and have to go about breaking things off in a "unpragmatic and undecisive" way.

PegNosePete 7th November 2017 9:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjgitties (Post 7460672)
there are people who are not "pragmatic and decisive" who become miserable and unhappy and have to go about breaking things off in a "unpragmatic and undecisive" way.

And those are the people who do it in the "wrong" way, which tends to end up with the other person getting hurt, led on, confused, angry, bitter.

Everyone has control over their own actions. If they choose not to do it the right way then that is a choice they make. Blaming it on "I'm just not like that" is a poor excuse.

nyclion 10th November 2017 4:14 PM

Firstly, heartfelt thanks for all your advice and perspectives. Seems like most of you have seen this movie before. I am just a few minutes into it. Spoilers are welcome!:laugh:

I will try to answer some of the questions asked

- is she planning on getting a job?
Long-term that is her plan. To do voluntary work in order to gain experience in her chosen field, so she can work in the sector that she wants to. But she is not filling in job applications right now.

- did she complain about financial situation?
no, she has never had to complain, because she has very little knowledge of our finances. I earn the money, she spends it. Very simplistically.

- where is her travel in November? Is she taking the kids?
She is going overseas to see her sick mum for 10 days (totally understandable as her mum won't be around forever). Bad timing as I need to travel for work that week so we have a nanny living in to look after the kids. Then she is going overseas again for a conference in Europe related to her voluntary work (a bit more dubious if that is really necessary). I will look after the kids those days.

- "women don't leave without a plan"
I don't think that she is planning to leave. Her hope was that I would move out for a trial separation, and she would stay in the home with the kids and her life would continue as normal. That won't happen because I am not going to move out, and she couldn't keep the apartment on her own. So she will need to rethink that one.

nyclion 10th November 2017 4:28 PM

Anyhow, I followed advice above and had a free consultation with a lawyer. He was very clear: DO. NOT. MOVE. OUT. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. He also described a "trial" separation pretty bluntly as "bulls##t"

Do not move out for 2 reasons:
1) puts me in a worse situation for child custody arrangements.
2) we can't afford 2 places when the payments on our home are so high

He also gave the following advice:
1. Make copies of all financial documents
2. Make sure there are no fights so 911 is not called (I hadn't thought of this one, but we haven't had any violent fights)
3. Do not try to force her to get a job as it will just make her defensive

Some of you said to do a hard 180. I am not sure that will work. She has been complaining of lack of emotional connection. If I cut off all emotional connection then I am just confirming her doubts. She had a panic attack last weekend and I comforted her through it. She hugged me after and said that for the first time in a long time she felt a small amount of connection to me.

We went through our monthly finances at the weekend and I showed that we can't afford 2 apartments without a drastic cut in standard of living. She started crying as she feels the emotional upheaval of moving with destabilize her and the kids (last couple of times we have moved she was always low afterwards because of the boxes, mess, overwhelming amount of things to do)

In bed we hug sometimes at night (but nothing more). We talk in the morning. Last week she met me near my office at lunchtimes to help me buy some pants and I went with her to get some of her clothes altered. I kiss her hello and goodbye on the cheek - but if I try to kiss her on the lips she complains that I am putting too much pressure on her. So there are signs, but I know that if I press her to ask how she is feeling then I will get the same answer - she does not love me and wants a separation.

Overall I am trying to give her space, try to connect emotionally, hope for the best, but prepare myself mentally that is could be over.

Marc878 10th November 2017 5:48 PM

Again!!!! Check your phone bill online

healing light 11th November 2017 5:12 PM

When did the sex stop in your marriage? Was it gradually? Suddenly? She's having issue with being kissed on the mouth? When did that stop?

salparadise 11th November 2017 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463649)

Some of you said to do a hard 180. I am not sure that will work. She has been complaining of lack of emotional connection. If I cut off all emotional connection then I am just confirming her doubts. She had a panic attack last weekend and I comforted her through it. She hugged me after and said that for the first time in a long time she felt a small amount of connection to me.


I think you have to change something if you want something to change. I don't know that it would fix everything, but you've already been patient, loving and trying your best to please... and look where it has gotten you. Nowhere. She's pushing you away and you're falling all over yourself to appease. Have you ever considered that having this kind of control is meeting her needs in some perverse way and only serves to perpetuate the situation?

My ex-wife used to bring up the D-word thinking that was her trump card, and that I would always fold. You should've seen the look on her face the first time I "okay, I'm so sick of this sh*t. Let's just do it." It didn't ultimately save the marriage, but it sure did change the game.

Here's what I would consider in your situation... sit her down and just tell her that you've done everything you know how to do and she's still not happy so it time to set her free. That it's not what you hoped for, but given circumstances, which are beyond your control, you intend to start living life on your own terms, taking care of yourself and moving forward. Tell her that you aren't leaving and that she will need to find herself a new place to live and start paying her way. That you intend to stay in the home and keep the kids with you. That you will no longer be carrying her burden because you have more than enough of your own, and now you will be the primary caretaker for the kids as well. Wish her luck and ask her to find a new place by the end of the month. Tell her to have her lawyer contact yours, but not to expect windfall because you've already determined that finances are tight. Tell her that you intend to retain primary custody of the kids and she will be allowed ample visitation. Wish her luck with her new life.

The alternative would be for her to get serious about reviving the marriage. I know this is not where you are that this moment, but being Mr. Nice Guy isn't getting you anywhere, and I don't think that's going to change.

And from your perspective... do you really want to spend your life trying to appease a woman who takes, takes, takes, and never does a damn thing to meet your needs? This will diminish you beyond anything you can imagine. Something has to change, and you need to be assertive, take care of yourself, and refuse to be her doormat.

BluesPower 12th November 2017 9:07 AM

To add to what sal said...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by salparadise (Post 7464530)
I think you have to change something if you want something to change. I don't know that it would fix everything, but you've already been patient, loving and trying your best to please... and look where it has gotten you. Nowhere. She's pushing you away and you're falling all over yourself to appease. Have you ever considered that having this kind of control is meeting her needs in some perverse way and only serves to perpetuate the situation?

My ex-wife used to bring up the D-word thinking that was her trump card, and that I would always fold. You should've seen the look on her face the first time I "okay, I'm so sick of this sh*t. Let's just do it." It didn't ultimately save the marriage, but it sure did change the game.

Here's what I would consider in your situation... sit her down and just tell her that you've done everything you know how to do and she's still not happy so it time to set her free. That it's not what you hoped for, but given circumstances, which are beyond your control, you intend to start living life on your own terms, taking care of yourself and moving forward. Tell her that you aren't leaving and that she will need to find herself a new place to live and start paying her way. That you intend to stay in the home and keep the kids with you. That you will no longer be carrying her burden because you have more than enough of your own, and now you will be the primary caretaker for the kids as well. Wish her luck and ask her to find a new place by the end of the month. Tell her to have her lawyer contact yours, but not to expect windfall because you've already determined that finances are tight. Tell her that you intend to retain primary custody of the kids and she will be allowed ample visitation. Wish her luck with her new life.

The alternative would be for her to get serious about reviving the marriage. I know this is not where you are that this moment, but being Mr. Nice Guy isn't getting you anywhere, and I don't think that's going to change.

And from your perspective... do you really want to spend your life trying to appease a woman who takes, takes, takes, and never does a damn thing to meet your needs? This will diminish you beyond anything you can imagine. Something has to change, and you need to be assertive, take care of yourself, and refuse to be her doormat.

I have read all of this thread, and I am thinking that she is having an affair. So if you do your work, you will find out that she is... It is almost guaranteed.

Further, do you understand what we mean when we say to stop being MR. NICE GUY? Because that is the first thing you need to stop doing, like yesterday.

You are treating her like a princess, and brother she is not. She is lazy and you have enabled that.

So, I am going to say that she needs to get a job of some kind. That way it shows the court that she is capable of working and it may reduce your alimony when you divorce.

But here is the main point... She is most likely screwing around on you and you need to really do the detective work to verify that one way or another. But do not be passive about it, and think that there is no way she could do that. Because there is a way and most likely she is.

You have to stop being passive and make some strong moves like FILING FOR DIVORCE. And honestly, do you really want to be with an entitled princess that does not love you and only has you there to pay the bills?

I should think not. And, no matter what is going on, you filing for divorce may at the very least wake her up about what she is about to through away...

sandylee1 12th November 2017 9:49 AM

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous generalisation. Women can and do leave marriages without another man in the wings.

Time for you to get evidence for women do not leave
their husbands unless they have already have his replacement
in place, an affair


She could have fallen out of love add she said. Het mother having cancer may also be part of the reason. The realisation that life is too short.... to live in a marriage you arent happy in is a genuine issue.

PegNosePete 13th November 2017 2:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463632)
- is she planning on getting a job?
Long-term that is her plan. To do voluntary work in order to gain experience in her chosen field, so she can work in the sector that she wants to. But she is not filling in job applications right now.

Long term? That is what she tells you. But her actions indicate that this is a load of BS. Long term her plan is to divorce you and live off your alimony for the rest of her life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463632)
I earn the money, she spends it. Very simplistically.

And that is exactly what she will expect to continue, post divorce. She will apply for joint lives alimony.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463632)
- "women don't leave without a plan"
I don't think that she is planning to leave. Her hope was that I would move out for a trial separation, and she would stay in the home with the kids and her life would continue as normal. That won't happen because I am not going to move out, and she couldn't keep the apartment on her own. So she will need to rethink that one.

Well, that is a game plan. She can afford to keep the apartment if you're funding it through your alimony.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463649)
Anyhow, I followed advice above and had a free consultation with a lawyer. He was very clear: DO. NOT. MOVE. OUT. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. He also described a "trial" separation pretty bluntly as "bulls##t"

Great! Now see another lawyer, and another. Always get 3 quotes when you're getting a new front door, a new boiler or selling a house. So get opinions from 3 lawyers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463632)
2. Make sure there are no fights so 911 is not called (I hadn't thought of this one, but we haven't had any violent fights)

Yes absolutely. There are many, many stories on these forums from men who were never violent but had a minor disagreement, the wife called the police, and the man was removed to keep the peace. Once he is out he never gets back in the house, of course. If the police do get called then you need to act TOTALLY calm no matter what your wife says to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyclion (Post 7463632)
She has been complaining of lack of emotional connection. If I cut off all emotional connection then I am just confirming her doubts.

Look..... I get why you would make that logical connection. But this logic is flawed. She is not making logical decisions here, she is making emotional ones. She wants out of the marriage. She feels emotionally disconnected (most likely because she is having an affair). When you're trying to re-establish an emotional connection you are simply annoying her. That is having exactly the opposite effect you think it is having!

Women respect strong men. You need to say to her, no more of this BS. You either want to work on the marriage or you don't. If so then we go to marriage counselling tomorrow. If not we go to court tomorrow. Choose.

And as has been said many times, you need to go full detective and check for signs of an affair.

BluesPower 13th November 2017 1:08 PM

That is true Sandy...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandylee1 (Post 7464943)
I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous generalisation. Women can and do leave marriages without another man in the wings.

Time for you to get evidence for women do not leave
their husbands unless they have already have his replacement
in place, an affair


She could have fallen out of love add she said. Het mother having cancer may also be part of the reason. The realisation that life is too short.... to live in a marriage you arent happy in is a genuine issue.

That is true Sandy... but in a situations like this one, it is a very high probability that she is having an affair.

As it is OP is treating her like a princess and she sees that and obviously has ZERO respect for him.

I am betting affair...But I could be wrong...

Rockdad 13th November 2017 1:25 PM

I believe I spoiled my ex or she got that way same result, there was no undoing it. She wasn't coming off her throne no matter what. About any personal inconvenience became a crisis I was to manage.

S2B 13th November 2017 1:30 PM

Make her get a job now! Otherwise you will be paying way more to her when you divorce.

Just a Guy 19th November 2017 12:05 AM

Hi Blues I agree with you. A woman who gets everything on a platter, blows up money she does'nt earn and then has the gall to say that her husband isn't pulling his weight on the emotional front has to be the biggest Process type going around. She has the right to fall out of love while her husband is working his a.. Off providing her a cushy lifestyle and so she can make expensive foreign trips a number of times a year? Maybe her BF 8s from her country of origin and she blows her husbands money to go sleep with him whenever it tickles her fancy.

I think it is time for OP to man up and start living life for himself. His wife needs to face some hard knocks and come down to mother earth. Peg-nose- Pete is right on the mark with his advice and the OP would be well served to take it in the right spirit. Just my thoughts on this. Warm wishes.


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