Lonely while married

[Fireflynights]

I have been reading posts for a few weeks and decided it was time to add my story...although it seems mine overlaps a lot of other's. Met and started dating shortly before I turned 20 (he is 8 years older), and we have been together for almost 18 years, our 15th wedding anniversary is just weeks away. We have two young children, which makes all of this so much harder. There have been no affairs, that I am aware of, but very much doubt. Things have been slowly getting worse the last 5-6 years. I am not sure if I can put my finger on just one thing that led to where we are now, but infertility and health problems have not helped. We did MC in 2013 when I was at a point where I was done, but he said he still loved me. A few months into the MC he decided we had gotten as far as we could with it...I was flabbergasted, as was the counselor who I stayed on with for IC for a few more months. We went to the appointments, but did not do any work in between those appointments. I am not sure why I stayed then other than I started a new job and would be working nights...he at that point quit his part-time job (yeah, part time...but stayed on per diem) with the expectation that he would work on fixing the house up so we could move. Once we moved he would get a new job and I would find childcare...now a year and a half later we are still in the same house, no work done other than me moving things slowly into storage, he is only working a few days a month, I still do the majority of care for our children (he is just a warm body on the couch watching TV or playing video games most days while home with the kids), I still commute an hour each way to work (part of the reason we need to move) and I still do not feel in love with him (shocking I am sure).

So I am torn as to what to do...I want to be done, or at least separate, but unsure how to do it realistically and financially. Ideally I would find somewhere to move closer to work with the kids, but this would move me away from family who is local to where I am now, so I would have to find overnight care for my children (I have a much younger sister who might be an option for now). Currently my H could not carry the house on his own, even fulltime in his current career would be a stretch, but unsure we could sell our house in its current condition. My other fear is if we were able to sell he would move in with his family, 3 hours away...this would suck for my kids. I have considered MC again, but with how well it went the first time I am not having high hopes for it.

It looking this over I guess I haven't really explained my issues with my H. We don't talk other than the usual day to day stuff, anything deeper becomes a fight which we have tried to stop doing in front of our children. When I do bring up any issue he immediately deflects or goes on the offense. I don't hate him, I have spent about half my life with him, but this is not a marriage...we are room mates who co-parent. And lastly...no sex for over 5 years (well once last year, I just needed to see if I still felt a connection with him...but it was just sad for me).

So thank you if you read all of this. My question is, do I suggest MC and try once more, keep going this way for my kids or figure out how we seperate?

[TaraMaiden2]

How much more do you want to keep trying?

 

As I see it, you're bending so far backwards to keep this going, that you've ended up burying your own head up your own backside.

 

That sounds harsh, and I'm sorry, but frankly?

 

Read your own Post again.

If that poor, downtrodden exhausted lady was asking YOU the same question - wouldn't you just tell her to find a lawyer, and file?

 

Find a Lawyer.

And File.

 

You honestly have nothing to lose, except your own identity, passion and energy.

You're giving all that away, and probably feel a shadow of your former self.

 

You need to get 'You' back.

No, it won't happen overnight.

No, it won't be easy.

 

But I honestly think you've run out of options.

 

How much more - seriously - Just How MUCH more, do you want to keep trying?

 

because trying is no longer an effort.

It's a habit.

And one you need to break.

 

Move forward, and spring it on him.

Surprise him.

And do not go back on this.

 

Because any effort on his part to 'make things better' will be temporary, and an effort to maintain the current status quo (you do everything while he just sits there).

Hell, it's been working for him so far....

 

Find a Lawyer.

 

And File.

[oldshirt]

Get a lawyer and find out what your post-divorce financial and child rearing life will look like.

 

 

Since he is basically a deadbeat the bad part of this is you may end up having to pay HIM alimony and possibly even child support if he ends up getting more than 50% of the child custody (which he could make an attempt to do given your long commute times and the fact that he is currently the most time with the kids......even though it may not be productive time. )

 

 

If I was your wise old uncle, I would implore you to do whatever you could to get him to get a full time job and work in that job until the insurance benefits kicked in...and then I would file for divorce. If you file before he is fully employed, you may end up having to support his lazy ass even more than you are doing now.

 

 

My recommendation is to start working with a lawyer in secret and come up with a complete divorce plan without your H being aware of your intentions or plans at all. Get him fully employed and then make the filing and move on with your life all in one sweep.

 

 

Your marriage is dead. your H is a deadbeat and is a dead weight holding you back. you will be better off without him. BUT you need to plan this out and take a few very major and important steps before you spring the trap.

 

 

If he was a drunkard and beating you and the kids all the time, I would say to find shelter in the storm and flee in the middle of the night.

 

 

But since you are not under any kind of physical threat and since if you filed now, you may have to continue to support him, I say bide your time and work out a master plan with a lawyer and get everything into place before you take any definitive actions.

[Mr. Lucky]

Since he is basically a deadbeat the bad part of this is you may end up having to pay HIM alimony and possibly even child support if he ends up getting more than 50% of the child custody (which he could make an attempt to do given your long commute times and the fact that he is currently the most time with the kids......even though it may not be productive time. )

 

This is unfortunately true.

 

You're going to have to make a list:

 

Get out of marriage

Custody of children

Avoid paying alimony

Sell current house

Move to new area

Keep current job

 

And prioritize, you won't get everything. Which objectives are most important to you ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Qboro90]

Tell him that it's been a year and the work on the house he promised have been unfulfilled. It's fine to say that this is taking a toll on you and he needs to find full time employment immediately. Stress that if he can't find a job then you're strongly considering divorce. Once he finds a job and health insurance kicks in that's when you file and send him the papers. At this point you're completely supporting the household on your own so the only thing that will change is where you live and him being gone. You want to make sure you don't get stuck paying him alimony so that is the only strategic planning you have to worry about. A lawyer can give you the best plan/options available to you.

 

You've done everything you could to make this marriage work. He's failed at every turn and is just occupying space now.

[Fireflynights]

I did feel that reading what I wrote and actually acknowledging that this is my life sounds pathetic...it probably helped that I posted it at 2:30 in the morning. I am not sure how this became my life, how I let it.

So am I better off filing for divorce (once I have everything in order with a lawyer, etc.) vs. just seperating for now. I know that I will likely get hit with paying alimony as I have always made significantly more than him...would seperating stall this...although I already figured I would have to help him out regardless if I move out. Honestly I don't think he would ask me to give him money...I think his family will push him to though. Plus I would prefer he stay in this state for the kids. About the kids...it never occurred to me he would get more custody than me! I figured since I could afford to raise them, buy (wash and pick out daily) their clothes, do the grocery shopping and make their dinners and help my daughter with homework between my shifts that they would be with me M-F and he could have them on weekends...then of course adjust for school vacations. This whole thing is turning my stomach. I am so frustrated that I have worked so hard to get us here and meet a lot of my personal goals and now I might have to pick and choose from them...

I do thank everyone for their input. I have talked to some close friends, but felt I needed advice from those of you who have been here, through situations similar.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm usually one who believes that you should do anything to make a marriage work particularly where kids are involved but it seems like all YOU are doing is working. I'm learning that it takes 2 to tango but I'm a slow learner!!

 

Why not keep divorce on the back burner just for a few weeks & try it this way...

 

He is claiming that fixing the house & taking care of the kids is his full time job. Why not act like his boss for a while? Draw-up a list of house priorities & a time table. Get him to commit to this. You need the house sorted & ready to stage for sale whatever you choose to do. You're paying him (in a roundabout way) to do a job & he's not doing it!

Same for the kids. They need to be getting ready to return to school. Make another list. I assume you come home from a nights work & sleep? When you get-up go through the lists with him. Nicely talk about what the kids have done & check the progress on the house. Showing an interest & pushing like this might help. Know what I mean? Making it more specific...not just a fight over him doing 'nothing'...making him accountable for that days targets might motivate him more.

If things don't change lay it on the line. I need you to keep your side of the deal or I'm finished!

 

As others have said, you NEED these things done. You've waited years. What's the harm of pushing for a few more months? If you start to see positive changes THEN you can decide if you're willing to work on your marriage some more or file for divorce. Being cold & hard... You've 'paid' a contractor to fix your house. I'd try to get the job done before you fire him!

 

When you've spent your entire adult life with someone you've been as much part of his 'nurturing' as his parents. You've taught him what he can get away with. You've grown-up, he hasn't. He's still a teenager playing computer games in his parents basement. That's the way I'm starting to see things. My marriage has different issues but also has some similarities. We were basically kids when we got together too. I like to believe in "Happily ever after" but sometimes our dreams & history are all we've really got left....

[ShatteredLady]

Is finding a new job closer to your house & family an option? Keeping 'stability' for the kids could make your chances of maintaining majority custody better. You earn the money. If you can keep the kids in the same schools & home with your family to help & support you it would be better.

 

I know what you're feeling. I always assumed that the Mom would get custody with a weekend father. Ugh! I'm so sorry. Really think about the best possible outcome & plan, plan, plan.

[understand50]

I have been reading posts for a few weeks and decided it was time to add my story...although it seems mine overlaps a lot of other's. Met and started dating shortly before I turned 20 (he is 8 years older), and we have been together for almost 18 years, our 15th wedding anniversary is just weeks away. We have two young children, which makes all of this so much harder. There have been no affairs, that I am aware of, but very much doubt. Things have been slowly getting worse the last 5-6 years. I am not sure if I can put my finger on just one thing that led to where we are now, but infertility and health problems have not helped. We did MC in 2013 when I was at a point where I was done, but he said he still loved me. A few months into the MC he decided we had gotten as far as we could with it...I was flabbergasted, as was the counselor who I stayed on with for IC for a few more months. We went to the appointments, but did not do any work in between those appointments. I am not sure why I stayed then other than I started a new job and would be working nights...he at that point quit his part-time job (yeah, part time...but stayed on per diem) with the expectation that he would work on fixing the house up so we could move. Once we moved he would get a new job and I would find childcare...now a year and a half later we are still in the same house, no work done other than me moving things slowly into storage, he is only working a few days a month, I still do the majority of care for our children (he is just a warm body on the couch watching TV or playing video games most days while home with the kids), I still commute an hour each way to work (part of the reason we need to move) and I still do not feel in love with him (shocking I am sure).

So I am torn as to what to do...I want to be done, or at least separate, but unsure how to do it realistically and financially. Ideally I would find somewhere to move closer to work with the kids, but this would move me away from family who is local to where I am now, so I would have to find overnight care for my children (I have a much younger sister who might be an option for now). Currently my H could not carry the house on his own, even fulltime in his current career would be a stretch, but unsure we could sell our house in its current condition. My other fear is if we were able to sell he would move in with his family, 3 hours away...this would suck for my kids. I have considered MC again, but with how well it went the first time I am not having high hopes for it.

It looking this over I guess I haven't really explained my issues with my H. We don't talk other than the usual day to day stuff, anything deeper becomes a fight which we have tried to stop doing in front of our children. When I do bring up any issue he immediately deflects or goes on the offense. I don't hate him, I have spent about half my life with him, but this is not a marriage...we are room mates who co-parent. And lastly...no sex for over 5 years (well once last year, I just needed to see if I still felt a connection with him...but it was just sad for me).

So thank you if you read all of this. My question is, do I suggest MC and try once more, keep going this way for my kids or figure out how we seperate?

 

Fireflynights,

 

I tend to be in the "reconciliation camp", but in your case because you have tried, I would file for divorce, after you have set up the resources for you to separate. This maybe the only thing that show to him just how unhappy you are. Sometimes, you need to apply a "notional 2x4" to the head so the other party will understand. I fear that this maybe the only path left to you. This may allow you both to work on your marriage, and reconnect. Looks like he need to face the prospect of losing you, before he sees what he is giving up.

 

I wish you luck

[oldshirt]

I did feel that reading what I wrote and actually acknowledging that this is my life sounds pathetic...it probably helped that I posted it at 2:30 in the morning. I am not sure how this became my life, how I let it.

So am I better off filing for divorce (once I have everything in order with a lawyer, etc.) vs. just seperating for now. I know that I will likely get hit with paying alimony as I have always made significantly more than him...would seperating stall this...although I already figured I would have to help him out regardless if I move out. Honestly I don't think he would ask me to give him money...I think his family will push him to though. Plus I would prefer he stay in this state for the kids. About the kids...it never occurred to me he would get more custody than me! I figured since I could afford to raise them, buy (wash and pick out daily) their clothes, do the grocery shopping and make their dinners and help my daughter with homework between my shifts that they would be with me M-F and he could have them on weekends...then of course adjust for school vacations. This whole thing is turning my stomach. I am so frustrated that I have worked so hard to get us here and meet a lot of my personal goals and now I might have to pick and choose from them...

I do thank everyone for their input. I have talked to some close friends, but felt I needed advice from those of you who have been here, through situations similar.

 

 

 

I don't see how separating would provide any benefit to you in this situation whatsoever.

 

 

separation only provides two possible benefits. One is if people ultimately want to work things out and remain married but they are having such terrible fights that they need to go to their corners and let the dust settle so that they can calm their heads and come back and address the issues more rationally.

 

 

And the other reason for a separation is help people transition into single, post-divorce life. kind of like stepping into a cold swimming pool and adjusting to it in stages rather than just diving in.

 

 

Neither of those conditions really apply here and neither will benefit you.

 

 

the best strategy in your situation is to get everything worked out logistically under the radar in advance and then drop in on him in one swoop and get out from under him as quickly and decisively as possible.

 

 

Going for a separation will just give him more time to plot and plan with his attorney on how to milk you for more alimony.

 

 

Separation will just drain your funds more prior to the divorce. You may still even be ordered to support him during the separation.

 

 

This situation basically calls for lawyering up and starting the chess play and strategy and working towards actual divorce.

[oldshirt]

and in regards to alimony and custody and child support etc etc

 

 

This is why you need to start working with a competent, aggressive lawyer ASAP.

 

 

If he is unemployed, he doesn't even need to ask for spousal support. The judge may order it whether he asks for it or not. divorce laws are a little different in each jurisdiction but the general concept in pretty much all of the developed free world is that the marital assets are divied up fairly and that no one is living pennyless in a cardboard box post-divorce

 

 

Judges are legally obligated to follow the laws of the land and to not leave someone pennyless to the point of requiring welfare or public assistance if there is money in the marital assets to prevent it.

 

 

Judges are also professionally obligated to not make or allow a determination that will just cause one of the parties to come back at a later date and petition the court to change the points of the settlement.

 

 

For example some people are so desparate to get out of the marriage that in the heat of the moment they would agree to walk away with nothing but the clothes on their back. If the judge allows that and makes that judgement, that person will be back in court in a matter of weeks or months asking for a retrial because living pennyless sucked worse than what they thought it would and now that the dust has settled, they want what they were legally entitled to in the first place.

 

 

Judges are obligated to make things as fair and reasonable the first time so that people don't come back asking for a retrial at a later date.

 

 

And as far as child custody, one would assume that since you are the mother and the sole breadwinner that you would receive the majority of the custody, but very goofy things happen with custody all the time.

 

 

He may be able to demonstrate that he is the one home with them day in day out while you are out of the house and commuting for hours out of the day and so there for it would be best of the children continued to remain in the home with him and you simply footed the bill for it.

 

 

It's unlikely that it will go down exactly like that but that exact scenario has played out just as described before.

 

 

This is why it is critical that you get a lawyer and start working on this stuff right now.

 

 

The key ingredient though is you want him working and under insurance before you file. If he catches wind you are planning on divorcing him, he may decide not to seek employment just so you WILL have to pay for his lazy ass.

 

 

Keep your cards hidden. I would even be careful about talking to friends in case one gets loose lipped.

[Fireflynights]

ShatteredLady...I think theoretically I could look for a new job, but I am a nurse in a difficult specialty to get into. It took me a few years of applying at a handful of hospitals before I got in here. Also the city and school system my kids are in we have been in agreement that we want them out of. I have considered moving to a local town to our current location and sucking it up on the commute.

 

Oldshirt...I could maybe convince him to get a full time job, but I am not sure he will pick up the insurance with me already covering us all. He could pick it up in the future if there is a change, like divorce I believe.

 

I plan to look into finding a lawyer this week...just have to figure out an excuse to go meet with them...

[oldshirt]

 

Oldshirt...I could maybe convince him to get a full time job, but I am not sure he will pick up the insurance with me already covering us all. He could pick it up in the future if there is a change, like divorce I believe.

 

I plan to look into finding a lawyer this week...just have to figure out an excuse to go meet with them...

 

- you have to assume he is intentionally milking you and will try to continue to do so. He won't just do something good out of his own spirit of fair play.

 

 

- I'm not sure you are quite getting it yet. You don't need an "excuse" to find a lawyer because you can't let him know you are seeing one. You need to do this under the radar. Most initial consultations with a lawyer can do done in an hour- hour 1/2. Once things are under way, much can be done via phone calls and email. You will want an additional email that he knows nothing about and you may want to consider getting a burner phone.

 

 

Don't try to look for a clean, easy and painless way out of this situation. There isn't one.

[Fireflynights]

Oldshirt...sorry, I didnt mean tell him I was going to go see a lawyer. I just meant find a reason to be out of the house with out the kids or him to go meet with the lawyer. I am not sure he set out to live off me...but is now just rationalizing it somehow to himself and likely others.

[oldshirt]

Oldshirt...sorry, I didnt mean tell him I was going to go see a lawyer. I just meant find a reason to be out of the house with out the kids or him to go meet with the lawyer. I am not sure he set out to live off me...but is now just rationalizing it somehow to himself and likely others.

 

Oh ok gotcha.

 

You actually don't need as much time out of the house as you may think. Much can be done over the phone and email etc. Remember divorce lawyers are used to dealing with women that are abused and oppressed and are darn near prisoners in their own homes. They still want your money so they will find a way to work with you on your schedule.

[ShatteredLady]

Are you completely sure that you want a divorce? You guys have been together all your lives. You've grown-up together. You're a family. Is there anything he can do at this point to change & make you happy?

 

Many have advised you to keep everything secret until you're ready to serve the divorce papers. I agree but for a different reason.... From watching friends go through this, it's a truly horrible situation to be living in the same house with someone you love & desperately want to stay married to once they've told you it's over. It's a nightmare fraught with crazy emotions. You don't want your kids living through that!!

Unless the threat of divorce is to provoke change don't let him know until you've got the future & your kids settled. "I'm divorcing you. There's nothing you can do about it but we need to pretend everything's normal for a while!" is unlivable. You're kids aren't going to want this to happen. You don't want to end-up living surrounded by anguished people trying to make you change your mind.

 

Could you live with getting the house sorted & moving to the new area, getting the kids settled etc before you divorce? To be honest I keep talking about this because my worst nightmare is loosing custody of my kids!! I know a man who has custody & his wife gets the every other weekend visitation. It happens! Ugh!

[loveboid]

I would look up alimony laws in your state. Considering the length of your marriage, you may be close to your state's definition of a long-term marriage in which case depending on statutes the judge may grant permanent (lifetime) alimony. So I would check that out and calculate it into your timeline.

[Fireflynights]

Are you completely sure that you want a divorce? You guys have been together all your lives. You've grown-up together. You're a family. Is there anything he can do at this point to change & make you happy?

 

Could you live with getting the house sorted & moving to the new area, getting the kids settled etc before you divorce? To be honest I keep talking about this because my worst nightmare is loosing custody of my kids!! I know a man who has custody & his wife gets the every other weekend visitation. It happens! Ugh!

 

Shatteredlady...I wish I knew if there was something he could do that would make our marriage a marriage again. I am just not sure...it has been years of feeling like I am swimming with my head just above water and pulling my kids along while he is dragging us down from below. I just know I can't do this anymore. I spend most of my time fighting back tears, resentment and wanting to just give up...I feel so stuck and overwhelmed by it all. I know I need to do IC again, but it just feels like one more thing to add to my balancing act.

And before talking to everyone here, I never considered I could lose any custody of my kids...that is a huge fear for me. They are the most important in all of this, and I know our unhappiness has been taken out on them. Which I think is why I finally came to the decision we need to end this. I tried back in 2013, saw an IC and then briefly got him to go to MC because I felt angry all the time and saw the effect we were both having on the kids...ie. short tempered, etc. So now I think I need to follow through unless something drastic changed.

[TaraMaiden2]

Could I just say that I'm not sure how young your kids are exactly, but - kids grow.

They grow up.

And while they grow up, they see, hear and think things out for themselves.

 

It's possible that (depending on their ages, and it happens in the UK) their own opinions and choices of where they want to go, would be taken into consideration.

And while it always sounds as if couples 'fight over custody of the kids' as if they were part and parcel of the fixtures and fittings, sensible intelligent parents will include the children in discussions, not use them as pawns, and not manipulate or try to control them.

because this will always backfire on them.

 

Kids aren't stupid inanimate objects.

They can be smart, savvy and know what they want.

 

We try to do what's best for our kids, including wanting to take care of them, and look after them, even during/after divorce.

 

Children soon get to know what side of their bread is best buttered, and will gravitate towards doing things which make them happy and comfortable.

 

In brief, your kids' future, may not lie simply in who gets more time, because of historical events.

They may get to decide for themselves what they would prefer to do, and with whom they would prefer to be.

 

And as I said, kids grow. They develop, evolve, change, learn and adjust. They process stuff, and no matter often, what the Courts decide, the children decide for themselves, where their best interests lie.

[Fireflynights]

I would look up alimony laws in your state. Considering the length of your marriage, you may be close to your state's definition of a long-term marriage in which case depending on statutes the judge may grant permanent (lifetime) alimony. So I would check that out and calculate it into your timeline.

 

So looks like 10.5 years I could be told to pay him alimony, 30-35% of the difference in our income. He seriously needs to find a full time job before we get to the point of seeing a judge...ugh...

[TaraMaiden2]

If you get a good lawyer, he could fight that decision for you - successfully, too.... Besides, your H may not want to fight you if he has to pay his own legal bills.

 

Get Advice.

 

Don't count on everything anyone says on here.

While I am sure many speak with authority and knowledge, your bottom-line best bet is to consult someone who definitely knows - all the short-cuts, too....

[Fireflynights]

So my kids are currently 4 and 8... I am quite sure they would choose to live with me the majority of the time if asked. They still need a lot of parenting, my 8 year old would probably never shower again if it was left up to her and her father... And homework always has to be checked and typically redone when they do it together (one of the reasons I switched to nights after working evenings for 13 years) as she got older he either doesn't have the patience (or hate to say understanding...) to help her. I think if his family doesn't overstep and push him, he knows they should be with me during the week.

[TaraMaiden2]

Even if his family does push him, and he gets more custody than you'd ideally like, the shine will soon wear off. He will actually HAVE to look after them, feed them, clothe them, entertain them and be there for them.

 

Trust me, the novelty will wear thin.

Either he will get his family to look after them (then you go back to court and reveal this) or he will go back to court and agree custody for you.

[Fireflynights]

Alright, please know I have heard all of your advice and I do plan to speak with a lawyer. My question is, if the lawyer feels it is appropriate in this situation...do you think we could do this through a mediator? I truly think he will be less mad and less likely to be vindictive if I am upfront and honest with him. I don't want to leave him penniless, yet he DOES need to get a job, and I don't want to keep the kids away from him...it would not be good for him or the kids. And seeing the cost of lawyers and taking this to court does scare me I have to admit. So, could this be an option?

[CarrieT]

do you think we could do this through a mediator? So, could this be an option?

Only if he agrees to it.

 

If he hires a lawyer, than you both will need to lawyer-up and hunker down for the Big Fight.