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Saul Goodman

Basically, been married 21 years. I was making a backup of some of my wife's files on her laptop. Found out my wife was having an affair with another married coworker for around a year and a half. Lots of flirtatious messages. Emails about meeting up. Says she's "in love with him and and has fallen out of love with me".

 

I was going to talk about it during MC (intimacy problems for the past year, and now I know exactly why that is), but some of her messages basically say that she plans on leaving me and running off with the OM. Makes me feel like continuing MC would be a waste of time and it would be best to let her go off and do her own thing, rather than crawl on my feet and beg her to stay.

 

I'd be entirely understanding, had she been upfront about this initially, instead of wasting both our time. But considering that she had been keeping quiet for the past year, and lying during MC (so she's been wasting our money too), I can't say I'm too sympathetic.

 

I see two possibles reasons for her actions (from what I have gathered from MC). She has either been exceedingly unhappy for a few years now, and expected me to use my magical mind-reading powers to figure that out, instead of just saying something to me. Or she is going through a MLC and has decided to cover me and our 2 kids in her personal rubbish.

 

I've been checking out divorce lawyers in the area. She doesn't know that I know, and I'd like to keep it that way for now. So, before I bite the bullet and tell her, is there anything I should know first? And what are some things that I should look out for during the divorce process? From people with personal experience?

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PegNosePete

Sorry for your situation dude. Plenty of us here were right where you are! But it's hard to give legal advice if you don't say which country, state or jurisdiction you're in ;)

 

The main thing would be that first, you need to decide what you want to do. Could you reconcile with a cheating wife? She has been lying to you for over a year and off with some other dude putting your life at risk from STDs, so you need to think long and hard about this. She is not the woman you thought she was. Would she be so understanding if she discovered that you had been having an affair with another woman for over a year? Take your time, make your decision, however long it takes, without letting on that you know. You need to get your own head straight before doing anything.

 

If your decision is "no", see a lawyer ASAP. Line up your ducks and protect your assets before letting on to her that you know. If she is planning to dump you for this guy then no doubt she has been preparing for a long time without you knowing, so you need to even the playing field a little. Take advice form your lawyer and other sources about how to protect your finances because she will almost certainly have done so already. Women always build up a nest egg before flying the roost. Then once you are ready you can slap her with the divorce papers.

 

But if you decide you do want to try to reconcile you need to handle it differently. It's probably still worth visiting a lawyer and protecting your finances, in case it all goes wrong or she simply does not want to reconcile with you. After that you can confront her in the right way. Let us know if you want some advice on how to do this.

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Saul Goodman
But it's hard to give legal advice if you don't say which country, state or jurisdiction you're in ;)
Right right. Lot on my mind at the moment PNP (Monkey Island?) but I live in Boston.

 

The main thing would be that first, you need to decide what you want to do. Could you reconcile with a cheating wife? She has been lying to you for over a year and off with some other dude putting your life at risk from STDs, so you need to think long and hard about this. She is not the woman you thought she was. Would she be so understanding if she discovered that you had been having an affair with another woman for over a year? Take your time, make your decision, however long it takes, without letting on that you know. You need to get your own head straight before doing anything.
If my wife had the metaphorical balls to confess on her own, I would have genuinely considered reconciliation. Even after all of this, I still love her.

 

But no. Lying to me for over a year. Lying during MC. Lying every time I asked "is everything okay?" or "is there anything that you want to talk about?"...no thanks. Not to mention that she is supposedly in love with this mOM. Maybe when reality hits, she will think differently. I don't know.

 

Answer to the bolded is most likely "hell no". We both made our boundaries on this issue 100% clear early on.

 

If your decision is "no", see a lawyer ASAP. Line up your ducks and protect your assets before letting on to her that you know. If she is planning to dump you for this guy then no doubt she has been preparing for a long time without you knowing, so you need to even the playing field a little. Take advice form your lawyer and other sources about how to protect your finances because she will almost certainly have done so already. Women always build up a nest egg before flying the roost. Then once you are ready you can slap her with the divorce papers.
Yep, that's basically my plan. I'm just worried about any unexpected surprises that she might pull off.

 

Realistically, I think that this divorce is going to get very ugly, with the way my wife has been acting. Not that I'm going to enjoy this, but I want to start playing dirty. Any advice there?

 

After that you can confront her in the right way. Let us know if you want some advice on how to do this.
Appreciated. I do intend to confront her eventually, but I don't want to rush into anything. She's been taking her time, and so will I.
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PegNosePete
(Monkey Island?)

Yes, the best part of the worst game :)

 

Realistically, I think that this divorce is going to get very ugly, with the way my wife has been acting. Not that I'm going to enjoy this, but I want to start playing dirty. Any advice there?

Don't they all..!!

 

Shock and awe dude. Line up your ducks. Get an experienced attorney (preferably a hot chick, that always helps) and follow all their advice for getting away as unscathed as possible. Usually for men it is a matter of damage limitation rather than taking her for all you can. Separate your finances as much as you can without tipping her off. If you can pay off any debts or credit cards from savings then it will probably help, or at least simplify it; you won't get stuck with 100% of the debt but only 50% of the savings. Close or freeze joint accounts or credit cards - although you might want to synchronize this with the divorce papers coming through because she's sure to get suspicious.

 

Then when you are ready, hit her with the divorce papers, no need for any build-ups or confrontations or arguments. Tell her you know what is going on and you want a divorce and for her to move out right now. She will deny deny deny and lie lie lie so be ready for that, just tell her that you know she is lying and don't back down. You can't force her to move out but you can strongly suggest it, and DO NOT move out yourself. Don't lay a finger on her of course, otherwise you will be removed by the police in mere seconds. If she plays dirty then she may try to get you removed from the house on trumped-up abuse charges so you need to act like a complete angel. Don't give her an inch of leeway but never raise a finger or even your voice, no matter what she says or does to you. Stay calm and collected at all times.

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I have no advice on the legal/divorce front as I am not American and have no clue how it works where you are. I can offer up a note of condolence as this situation just plain sucks.

 

The only thing I can say is to get the divorce over as quickly as possible and move on. You had said she'll likely make it ugly so I guess you have no choice but to get a bulldog lawyer and follow their advice.

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GorillaTheater

Everything Pete said, with a special emphasis on NOT mentioning that you're seeking a divorce until the suit for divorce is filed, and preferably not until she's served, plus this:

 

Copy all financial/assets documentation, marriage license, birth certificates, etc. and keep them in a safe place out of the house. I don't know about Massachusetts, but restraining orders (ROs) play a role in about 50% of divorces in Texas. You do NOT want to risk being cut off from these records if you are for any reason forced out of the house. Do NOT assume that your wife will not try this. At this point, your wife is not the woman you thought she was, and her ability to lash out when she figures out you're on to her may well astound you.

 

On that note, invest in a voice-activated recorder (VAR) and keep it with you at all times when you're with her. That may prove very helpful if your wife makes a false claim in an effort to get a RO. Be cool and calm, and sober, with her at all times.

 

Go to dadsdivorce.com and read The List. It's geared towards securing custody of the kids, and is quite long and daunting, but it assembles the best advice in one place.

 

Take care of yourself and the kids. You can handle this Saul. Strength and honor.

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Plan for the worst and hope for the best. Slowly withdraw money and deposit it with a genuine friend. Place money where it will be inaccesable. Eg Children fund (your own).

 

Snoop and expose to all who can help AT ONE TIME. If she is still with OM, councilling is a thorough waste of time.

 

Personally, you should learn to meet her emotional needs. Find out what they are...

 

Check out marriagebuilders.com articles and find out the details for a Plan A and Plan B approach.

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GorillaTheater

One other thing:

 

Get consultations with multiple attorneys, including as many divorce lawyers who have good reputations as possible. Not only is this simply being a good consumer, but any attorney you talk to will be unable to represent your wife afterwards.

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2.50 a gallon

Seeing a MC at this time is a total waste of time and money.

 

In short her body is flooding her brain with love chemicals for the OM, literally a drug addiction. So as long as she is still in contact with him her body will continue to pump out more love chemicals for him.

 

Do you know is he married?

 

It sounds as if things are going to get nasty. Divorce, is WAR. It can go nuclear if children are involved.

 

It is time for you to start covering your a$$. Start a journal noting everything of importance, times dates, etc. what is said

 

Get yourself a Voice Activated Recorder and put it in your pocket at all times.

 

The reason being, guys especially can get caught off guard, she will fake a fight with you, call the cops, you go to jail, get served a temporary restraning order, so you can not get back into you home or even be around your kids, and I have seen while you are out she files D papers and moves the OM in

 

Your first priority should be protecting and taking care of your children, at times like these they need a loving adult on their side to fight for them.

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PegNosePete
Get consultations with multiple attorneys, including as many divorce lawyers who have good reputations as possible. Not only is this simply being a good consumer, but any attorney you talk to will be unable to represent your wife afterwards.

^ ^ Yes, top "dirty trick" :)

 

Even if you just have a free initial consultation with an attorney, they are prevented from advising your wife due to conflict of interest laws. So go through as many of the top ones in your area as you can, before your wife even starts looking for one.

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marqueemoon4
^ ^ Yes, top "dirty trick" :)

 

Even if you just have a free initial consultation with an attorney, they are prevented from advising your wife due to conflict of interest laws. So go through as many of the top ones in your area as you can, before your wife even starts looking for one.

 

ohhh.. good idea.. you gotta start winning every battle and you'll win the war. make no mistake, she is going to try and take you down.

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Every time I read of a potentially contentious divorce, I recall our local biochemist business owner who, along with a young male accomplice, disabled her estranged husband with a stun gun and dumped him in a barrel of acid. Google Larissa Schuster for the gory details. He was an administrator at our local hospital and she owned a chemical business. Very upper-middle class, with children, who 'had it all'. They can't make this stuff up.

 

The effects of her affair may provide a sweet spot for settlement, advantageous to you. Cover that contingency with your lawyer. Definitely be prepared for 'war', but know your numbers and watch out for a good deal and jump on it if it comes your way. Divorce is a fluid process. Expect the unexpected, both ways.

 

 

Good luck and stay safe.

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Get a pitbull lawyer and prepare for war. Use every dirty trick in the book because you can believe she will.

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Every time I read of a potentially contentious divorce, I recall our local biochemist business owner who, along with a young male accomplice, disabled her estranged husband with a stun gun and dumped him in a barrel of acid. Google Larissa Schuster for the gory details. He was an administrator at our local hospital and she owned a chemical business. Very upper-middle class, with children, who 'had it all'. They can't make this stuff up.

 

The effects of her affair may provide a sweet spot for settlement, advantageous to you. Cover that contingency with your lawyer. Definitely be prepared for 'war', but know your numbers and watch out for a good deal and jump on it if it comes your way. Divorce is a fluid process. Expect the unexpected, both ways.

 

 

Good luck and stay safe.

 

I looked it up and I am shocked she was actually convicted and women aren't rallying around her.

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Basically, been married 21 years. I was making a backup of some of my wife's files on her laptop. Found out my wife was having an affair with another married coworker for around a year and a half. Lots of flirtatious messages. Emails about meeting up. Says she's "in love with him and and has fallen out of love with me".

 

I was going to talk about it during MC (intimacy problems for the past year, and now I know exactly why that is), but some of her messages basically say that she plans on leaving me and running off with the OM. Makes me feel like continuing MC would be a waste of time and it would be best to let her go off and do her own thing, rather than crawl on my feet and beg her to stay.

 

I'd be entirely understanding, had she been upfront about this initially, instead of wasting both our time. But considering that she had been keeping quiet for the past year, and lying during MC (so she's been wasting our money too), I can't say I'm too sympathetic.

 

I see two possibles reasons for her actions (from what I have gathered from MC). She has either been exceedingly unhappy for a few years now, and expected me to use my magical mind-reading powers to figure that out, instead of just saying something to me. Or she is going through a MLC and has decided to cover me and our 2 kids in her personal rubbish.

 

I've been checking out divorce lawyers in the area. She doesn't know that I know, and I'd like to keep it that way for now. So, before I bite the bullet and tell her, is there anything I should know first? And what are some things that I should look out for during the divorce process? From people with personal experience?

This type of question was discussed a few days ago, and I brought up the fact that the affair may not have a bearing on a divorce case. We don't know which country or state you live in, so you should definately call an attorney to get an idea of divorce laws in your area, but you may find that any evidence gathering on your part is all in vain. If you live in a no fault divorce state, the judge may not consider any of the evidence of the affair when making a decision about child custody or division of the assets. Most likely he won't. My sister went through a divorce with her first husband where there was a "mountain of evidence" about an affair that was gathered, and it didn't make a bit of difference to the judge. Not in the custody or visitation, not in the division of the assets. Your attorney may try to make it an issue, just because that puts more money in his pocket the more contentious and drawn out the divorce is made, but just be prepared for the situation that it makes no difference to the court. Because that is often the case in no fault divorce states.

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Yep, in Cali about the only thing, short of proving a parent unfit, one can do is use the 'evidence' to apply social pressure through friends/family/customers/vendors/networks to make the other party's life hell and perhaps promote a more advantageous outcome. However, if they're a 'care less' person, it won't matter. You might as well assault a toaster. The judge won't care one whit and will generally follow legal no-fault guidelines and the lawyers will get wealthier. My lawyer quoted ~50K as a potential for a hotly contested divorce. I was prepared for that if my exW tried to impair my ability to care for my mother. Luckily, Plan B wasn't necessary. One never knows.

 

OP, one day at a time. Interview three lawyers a day for the next seven business days. That's a good start. Implement strategies you learn. Remember, each decision you make now can't easily be undone later so move forward but do it with care and consideration. Good luck.

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This type of question was discussed a few days ago, and I brought up the fact that the affair may not have a bearing on a divorce case. We don't know which country or state you live in, so you should definately call an attorney to get an idea of divorce laws in your area, but you may find that any evidence gathering on your part is all in vain. If you live in a no fault divorce state, the judge may not consider any of the evidence of the affair when making a decision about child custody or division of the assets. Most likely he won't. My sister went through a divorce with her first husband where there was a "mountain of evidence" about an affair that was gathered, and it didn't make a bit of difference to the judge. Not in the custody or visitation, not in the division of the assets. Your attorney may try to make it an issue, just because that puts more money in his pocket the more contentious and drawn out the divorce is made, but just be prepared for the situation that it makes no difference to the court. Because that is often the case in no fault divorce states.

 

OP already said he's from Boston, MA, probably a no-fault state.

However, if it's going to be an ugly D, why not bring up all the evidence there is? Judges are human after all, and if the attorney plays his/her cards well, any decisions related to alimony and other financial issues might be made in favor of the H rather than the W. Judges have to base their decisions on common sense and personal "judgement", if there is no predefined guideline. There are strict rules for calculating child support, but there aren't any for spousal support, for instance. I would definitely use the A against her during the D, it won't be to OP's disadvantage.

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OP already said he's from Boston, MA, probably a no-fault state.

However, if it's going to be an ugly D, why not bring up all the evidence there is? Judges are human after all, and if the attorney plays his/her cards well, any decisions related to alimony and other financial issues might be made in favor of the H rather than the W. Judges have to base their decisions on common sense and personal "judgement", if there is no predefined guideline. There are strict rules for calculating child support, but there aren't any for spousal support, for instance. I would definitely use the A against her during the D, it won't be to OP's disadvantage.

Well, my philosophy is, cut your losses. End the marriage as quickly as possible, and as painlessly as possible. The only people that win in a hotly contested divorce are the lawyers. It takes an incredible amount of emotional toll to both parties when a divorce is dragged out, not to mention if there are kids involved, it takes a huge toll on them. And the attorneys are the ones who come out on top. They'll be the ones walking away with a huge chunk of the family wealth. I'm very much in favor of divorce arbitrators, who are attorneys that charge a small fee to help the couple come to an agreement on how the assets will be distributed, how the support payments, if any, will be structured, and how the child custody and visitation will be portioned out. In no fault divorce states, judges normally base their decisions on what is in the best interests for the children, and they divide the marital assets in half. The affair does not become a factor in their decision. That's why no fault divorce laws were created--so that there wouldn't be all this drawn out acrimonious process that takes a huge toll on the family. Chances are, the judge will not take the OPs wife's affair into consideration when making a decision about custody, or financial settlement.

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Well, basically "no fault" means that you can file for D without having to prove that your spouse has been "at fault". You want a D. You file.

If you divide your assets and you're not in agreement with your soon to be ex spouse, however, and you want more than 50%, or you want (more) spousal support etc., the spouse at fault (if there is evidence), might very well end up receiving less or paying more. Of course that's up to the judge, sure, and there won't be a huge deviation, but it can influence the outcome. A cheated-on W could play the "emotionally abused/stressed-out" card that prevents her from having a job for a while, and the judge may accommodate that. Or the cheater-wife may not be awarded alimony, or less than she would get if the situation were different, etc.etc. Custody/child support: will probably not be affected. It all depends on whether or not OP is willing to fight or not, and on how much stamina he has. And whether he has a good lawyer.

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Here's what I see on the MA .gov web site regarding divorce, at least prose.

 

'There are different types of divorce -- (1) "uncontested fault," (2) "uncontested no-fault," (3) "contested fault," and (4) "contested no-fault" -- and you will need to determine which is applicable to your situation in order to proceed.'

 

So, apparently, it is possible to file a fault lawsuit. However, I would consider the budget required to prosecute it versus the potential rewards of a successful outcome.

 

It is somewhat ironic that there is actually a Saul Goodman character who is a sleazy lawyer on the TV series 'Breaking Bad'. ;)

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Saul Goodman

This is going to be a large post. Sorry.

 

Shock and awe dude. Line up your ducks. Get an experienced attorney (preferably a hot chick, that always helps) and follow all their advice for getting away as unscathed as possible. Usually for men it is a matter of damage limitation rather than taking her for all you can. Separate your finances as much as you can without tipping her off. If you can pay off any debts or credit cards from savings then it will probably help, or at least simplify it; you won't get stuck with 100% of the debt but only 50% of the savings. Close or freeze joint accounts or credit cards - although you might want to synchronize this with the divorce papers coming through because she's sure to get suspicious.
I do have an advantage there: I'm the one that usually does the finances. I haven't noticed any suspicious transfers on her part. Is there any way that she would be able to clean me out without me noticing? That's something that I'm worried about.

 

The shock and awe tactic seems like a good idea.

 

Copy all financial/assets documentation, marriage license, birth certificates, etc. and keep them in a safe place out of the house. I don't know about Massachusetts, but restraining orders (ROs) play a role in about 50% of divorces in Texas. You do NOT want to risk being cut off from these records if you are for any reason forced out of the house. Do NOT assume that your wife will not try this. At this point, your wife is not the woman you thought she was, and her ability to lash out when she figures out you're on to her may well astound you.

 

On that note, invest in a voice-activated recorder (VAR) and keep it with you at all times when you're with her. That may prove very helpful if your wife makes a false claim in an effort to get a RO. Be cool and calm, and sober, with her at all times.

Good idea. I've got scans of this sorta stuff on my own laptop. VAR? I'll go shopping after work. Although she is usually pretty tight-lipped.

 

Personally, you should learn to meet her emotional needs. Find out what they are...
That was my initial plan. I've always said "if there is a problem, tell me, and I'll do my best". What she is doing now is shutting me out.

 

Get consultations with multiple attorneys, including as many divorce lawyers who have good reputations as possible. Not only is this simply being a good consumer, but any attorney you talk to will be unable to represent your wife afterwards.
Yep, it's going to be a busy week. One thing I've thought about:there's a couple of lawyers here that specialise in "wives-only" consultations. There's a good chance that she will use them, and I won't be able to do anything.

 

Do you know is he married?
Yep. Apparently, mOM plans on separating from his wife. Doesn't sound like the wifey knows about the affair, or the separation. Thinking about telling her later. Any reasons why I shouldn't?

 

great username.. Breaking Bad is one of my favorite shows.
I'm hoping for a Saul Goodman. Sans the criminal connections.

 

The effects of her affair may provide a sweet spot for settlement, advantageous to you. Cover that contingency with your lawyer.
I've printed off her messages. See what happens next.

 

However, if it's going to be an ugly D, why not bring up all the evidence there is?
Even if the judge brushes it off, the potential sympathy points couldn't hurt right?

 

Well, my philosophy is, cut your losses. End the marriage as quickly as possible, and as painlessly as possible.
Ideally, I would love that. Don't think that it's going to happen though.

 

A cheated-on W could play the "emotionally abused/stressed-out" card that prevents her from having a job for a while, and the judge may accommodate that.
I'll play my own cards, if I have to.

 

Custody/child support: will probably not be affected.
Seems unlikely that I'll be able to get full-custody. I'm not looking forward to becoming the weekend dad. Any advice on how to lean things more to my favour? She works part-time, so she'll most likely have an advantage there.
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you're a smart man Saul - many of us would have put the evidence on the table and then go through the usual deny, deny, deny BS that often follows... you don't need any admission from her, you already know, it took a lot of patience to do what you are doing... get the divorce going - you already have tons of great advice on that issue... when the settlement is done then yeah, what the heck, tell the OMs wife anything you want!

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Saul Goodman
you're a smart man Saul - many of us would have put the evidence on the table and then go through the usual deny, deny, deny BS that often follows... you don't need any admission from her, you already know, it took a lot of patience to do what you are doing... get the divorce going - you already have tons of great advice on that issue... when the settlement is done then yeah, what the heck, tell the OMs wife anything you want!

 

I did think about talking to her before instigating this plan, of course. One thing that's on my mind is this: if I do tell her what I know, maybe the reality of what she is doing will become clearer. Her "plan" is to divorce me and hook up with the mOM once his own divorce is final. They'll keep it quiet for a year, then pretend that they just met and fell in love. Then all of us, and our kids will form one big happy family.

 

Now, for the entire 26 years that I have known my wife, I have never once attempted to stymie or control her. Being treated like a meat-puppet in her grand scheme is a big no-no for me. So there's no way I'm going along with any of that.

 

What I would hope, is that if she knew that her plan wouldn't work, she would at least make some attempt to work things out. Talk our problems through. Do what we have to do to save the marriage. I can swallow my pride if I must.

 

But...feck that.

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I can't remember what Mass is like. My father and mother were divorced in Ma. I am in MD which is a no fault state and everything is 50/50.

 

Keep all the proof every single thing. Be prepared for an ugly fight since she only works part time.

 

See if you can find a lawyer that helps men from getting bent over hard.

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