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25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?


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My wife and I have been together for 25 years (married for 19). We are both 42, so that should tell you how young we were when we got together. I love and respect her, and her me. We are compatible in almost every way but two. We've recently hit on rocky times. It's always been rocky, but moreso since our third kid was born. I am extremely reluctant to break up the marriage, because I love my kids more than anything & do not want to cause them grief & pain. But I'm at my wits end & am not sure I see the future as brighter.

 

The two ways we're not compatible are in career/time, and sex. The first - we never see each other. She works close to 60 hours a week. I have a more normal job, and end up doing most of the housework & childcare. No matter how much I plead with her to try to balance her work/kid/marriage time better, things only seem to get worse. The second - we have sex MAYBE 6 times a year. It's been that way for over a decade. Our sex is rote & unvaried, and after soooo long she is still so uncomfortable with intercourse and anything beyond standard touching & missionary that I just feel hopeless about it all. She pretty much refuses to do any kind of counseling. And though we talk often, it never seems to lead to any significant change.

 

Now I'm no saint. I've done my best to be a good husband & father, but my frustration & anger often get the better of me (with her not so much the kids). She can validly complain about the way I've treated her in the past (not as much now). There are issues on both sides. The thing that crushes me is that they are recurring issues that never seem to get resolved.

 

I could go on, but I think I need a little feedback & guidance first. Please help! :) Thanks.

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whichwayisup

You're thinking of busting up your family unit as one and throw away 25 years of marriage because of rocky times? Without really trying, or communicating, going to marriage counselling? Life is hard, marriage is work and effort.

 

You and your wife HAVE to make time for one another! Tell her it's a must!

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This is a great question, and deserves total honesty. I've only cheated once, and it lasted about a week. I regretted it, and eventually told her about it, though it took me a few weeks after it was over to get up the courage (not proud of that). She & I have been dealing with the aftereffects of this for six months, so it's complicated matters considerably. She has been very patient & reasonable when she could have easily kicked me out. We have both been much more respectful of each other since this has happened, and are talking more than we used to. So far, however, the jury is out as to what we should do. Our history weighs as much as (or more than) this recent event.

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dreamingoftigers

Sorry dude, but something smells fishy, like other woman fishy....

 

Or at least porn fishy.....

 

 

Now if that isn't the case, have you checked out the Divorce Busting literature? They have some really helpful ways to slowly adjust your marriage.

 

As well, try looking into some counseling for yourself and see if there is anything that can be done about the sexual situation.

 

What is your wife reluctance to trying something new sexually or going to counseling?

 

25 years is a lot to toss and it would seem a tad impulsive to hit the wall over issues like these, perhaps we are hitting mid-life crisis territory?

 

Any human being that you end up with is going to have issues for you to deal with, is your wife unhappy as well?

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"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result".

 

There are so many different ways you could go into this, but it seems to be that you're in conflict. It seems you've both become comfortable with the conflict, and believe that it's the inevitable recurring pattern. You're in a rut...

 

your wife works extraordinarily long hours - where are you, the UK?

What does she do?

 

I'm not surprised she's off sex. I would be, working those hours. or maybe it's a convenient excuse....

After so long in a relationship, some women don't see sex as a necessity, obligation or even a pleasure. They've done the breeding bit, and sometimes a woman's system shuts down and she's really just not into it at all.

And no amount of therapy, sexual aids, fantasy indulgences, wining, dining, sexy underwear or therapy will change that - because a woman knows it's all contrived to make her complicit in having more sex - and she resists that - because she's made to feel as if there's something wrong with her - and she just doesn't want it, so why should she have all these remedies thrown at her?

 

If you don't like what's happening, and you've tried other options, and those options aren't working - then I don't see you have much of a choice really.

 

The only other way you might get your needs met is to pay for it - or find a FwB.

But you should discuss this with your wife, because she's not willing to have sex with you - but she may be against your needs being met elsewhere - and she can't have it both ways. What she's doing is enforcing celibacy on you.

 

I hate to sound so cold and clinical but if she won't compromise,l reduce her hours or go to counselling, then I think it's time you pulled some tough stuff, and told her that either you both do something to salvage this mat=rriage, or you'll be inclined to call it quits.

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normally - someone works that much because they don't want to be home.

 

what is she avoiding?

 

things are out of balance... and if you aren't both in agreement to change things - they will remain the same. if she doesn't intend to change - there is no reason to stay and have more unhappiness.

 

for you - how can you expect a great marriage if you are spending your energy focused on another gal? how is that fair to your wife - the way you participate shows everything about you. how are YOU participating?

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Definitely not other woman fishy, but absolutely porn fishy. To the point of boredom.

 

I have been reading a lot about recovering from infidelity, and a lot of it is working. We have avoided the head-to-head explosions that can sabotage recovery, and are really talking things out.

 

I've done therapy - did it for a decade. It helped tremendously, but the reason I quit is because every therapist I saw agreed that my main problem is not my sex drive but my marriage, and I refused to believe them because I've been so scared to be without her.

 

Her reluctance has been around since forever, and we can't seem to figure it out. Case in point, it took us over two years to consummate our marriage.

 

Yes, my wife is unhappy, so we're trying to honor and work on both sides. And true, I wouldn't want to enter into another relationship without first figuring out how to get ONE right!

 

Thanks.

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It's great to get such blunt & honest feedback, no matter how tough it is to hear, so thanks to all.

 

She is an attorney and we live in NYC, though her hours weren't much better when we lived elsewhere. I do agree that she's avoiding something, and she even admitted to me (for the first time ever) last week that she has a commitment problem. It seems too daunting for us to just talk through, and she's done with therapy probably forever. We've tried to parse it out, but whatever is blocking her is well hidden.

 

I agree that I was sending my attention elsewhere for a while. Even before the one-week affair, my friend & were growing emotionally closer for about six months. But that is all very recent, and does not represent how I was for the 24 preceding years. I don't excuse it at all, and wish I'd never done it, but prior to AND after that I have done my utmost to direct attention her way.

 

I would consisder other arrangements, mostly so the kids' lives aren't disrupted, but I doubt she would. And I don't begrudge her that - it wouldn't be easy agreeing to let your husband seek other companionship. So you might be right, Tara, that I don't have much of a choice here. It's just hard to fathom after so long. I am definitely going to try to insist that we do something together and/or she be willing to compromise (and me too), and if that doesn't work then I guess I have a hard road ahead.

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dreamingoftigers
This is a great question, and deserves total honesty. I've only cheated once, and it lasted about a week. I regretted it, and eventually told her about it, though it took me a few weeks after it was over to get up the courage (not proud of that). She & I have been dealing with the aftereffects of this for six months, so it's complicated matters considerably. She has been very patient & reasonable when she could have easily kicked me out. We have both been much more respectful of each other since this has happened, and are talking more than we used to. So far, however, the jury is out as to what we should do. Our history weighs as much as (or more than) this recent event.

 

Definitely not other woman fishy, but absolutely porn fishy. To the point of boredom.

 

It helped tremendously, but the reason I quit is because every therapist I saw agreed that my main problem is not my sex drive but my marriage, and I refused to believe them because I've been so scared to be without her.

 

Yes, my wife is unhappy, so we're trying to honor and work on both sides. And true, I wouldn't want to enter into another relationship without first figuring out how to get ONE right!

 

Thanks.

 

1. Blaming tone here: So you took an otherwise typical marriage and went outside of it because you did not use proper conflict-solving skills.

 

So by being conflict-avoidant you took your legitimate complaints aside and did damage to your relationship. Now your question to everyone here is whether or not you should avoid working on the issues and conflicts in your marriage and avoid them again by leaving it. I am going to vote "No. Not unless you like a lot more pain then what you have been going through, plus a lot of shame for having trainwrecked a 25-year marriage because of avoidance."

 

2. The jury is going to be out for awhile. It takes a minimum of 18 months to heal from an infidelity. Plenty of couples go for the insta-split before dealing with the underlying issue and then they find themselves on the other side of a divorce not knowing what the Hell happened.

 

3. You are going to be over your cheating a lot quicker then she is going to be, read After the Affair to see what your spouse is going through. There are physical, psychological and emotional symptoms that you are simply not going to understand unless you have been cheated on. Don't minimize it, I can see from one of your statements that you have been trying to and no offence, but men often try to minimize the feelings of their partner after things like this, do her a favor and own every single decision you made and don't put her down if she is getting emotional about it. Try a hug instead. Big difference.

 

4. Knock off the porn, immediately. I know that some of you guys look at it like you will wither away and die, but by using porn you are choosing 18-21 year old women that are specially selected for their physical assets are you are comparing them to your wife. No woman, every the porn stars in real life can compete with what you find online and you are doing more damage to your sex life and marriage then your wife is by only sleeping with you 6 times per year.

 

I completely, completely empathize with you not getting much (believe me) but in all honesty the real problem isn't "you not getting much" it is the "low sexual activity and variety in your marriage." If you keep taking your activities outside of your marriage, you aren't going to solve the problem in your marriage, you will only polarize yourself against your marriage.

 

If it isn't helping your marriage, toss it. Try this for the next 18 months and then re-evaluate. You can spend 18 months on trying to improve something that has lasted 25 years, right?

 

The fact that your wife has responded reasonably and not kicked your ass to the curb speaks volumes. I tried the same with my H and it seems that often wayward spouses don't get the blessing that they have been given in a spouse that is respectful and willing to work through things. I strongly encourage you to re-evaluating your standing in the marriage and look less at your wife's fault and more at your personal responsibility in changing the dynamic in it. It is much more respectable and empowering.

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1. Blaming tone here: So you took an otherwise typical marriage and went outside of it because you did not use proper conflict-solving skills.

Completely agree. No argument here.

 

So by being conflict-avoidant you took your legitimate complaints aside and did damage to your relationship. Now your question to everyone here is whether or not you should avoid working on the issues and conflicts in your marriage and avoid them again by leaving it. I am going to vote "No. Not unless you like a lot more pain then what you have been going through, plus a lot of shame for having trainwrecked a 25-year marriage because of avoidance."

Well put. And no question I'm afraid of causing even more pain. I will say, though, that I'm in no way conflict avoidant. We/I have tried the direct approach - talking, therapy, hashing it out - and have gotten nowhere. I've tried being patient, demanding, talkative, silent, emotionally passive and aggressive and everything in between. My cheating is IN NO WAY excused by our failure to make any of these approaches worked, but it's certainly one cause.

 

2. The jury is going to be out for awhile. It takes a minimum of 18 months to heal from an infidelity. Plenty of couples go for the insta-split before dealing with the underlying issue and then they find themselves on the other side of a divorce not knowing what the Hell happened.

I have heard this, and I agree that we can't decide something like this without ample time working on things.

 

3. You are going to be over your cheating a lot quicker then she is going to be, read After the Affair to see what your spouse is going through. There are physical, psychological and emotional symptoms that you are simply not going to understand unless you have been cheated on. Don't minimize it, I can see from one of your statements that you have been trying to and no offence, but men often try to minimize the feelings of their partner after things like this, do her a favor and own every single decision you made and don't put her down if she is getting emotional about it. Try a hug instead. Big difference.

I agree, and my wife has told me this several times. I need to continue to remember what I did to her, and to be patient & understanding enough to give her the time & help she needs. And for the most part that is what's happening on both sides - we're both being supportive of each other & trying to understand the other's position.

 

4. Knock off the porn, immediately. I know that some of you guys look at it like you will wither away and die, but by using porn you are choosing 18-21 year old women that are specially selected for their physical assets are you are comparing them to your wife. No woman, every the porn stars in real life can compete with what you find online and you are doing more damage to your sex life and marriage then your wife is by only sleeping with you 6 times per year.

Believe me, it's not about comparison. The person I cheated with is nowhere near as beautiful as my wife. She still ranks at the top for me, and age has not dimmed that beauty. It's more about incompatible frequency of need than anything else. But I hear what you're saying.

 

I completely, completely empathize with you not getting much (believe me) but in all honesty the real problem isn't "you not getting much" it is the "low sexual activity and variety in your marriage." If you keep taking your activities outside of your marriage, you aren't going to solve the problem in your marriage, you will only polarize yourself against your marriage.

Oh, no question. And as I said the cheating lasted a week, and had never happened before, and never will again.

 

If it isn't helping your marriage, toss it. Try this for the next 18 months and then re-evaluate. You can spend 18 months on trying to improve something that has lasted 25 years, right?

Yes, very true & reasonable.

 

The fact that your wife has responded reasonably and not kicked your ass to the curb speaks volumes. I tried the same with my H and it seems that often wayward spouses don't get the blessing that they have been given in a spouse that is respectful and willing to work through things. I strongly encourage you to re-evaluating your standing in the marriage and look less at your wife's fault and more at your personal responsibility in changing the dynamic in it. It is much more respectable and empowering.

That's true. And when I consider the alternative, I am thankful every day. And I have thanked her & told her how much I respect her handling of this. I am determined to do my part to change our dynamic, but it takes two to make it better, so I can only hope she's as willing to work as I am. The one thing I want to do no matter how this turns out is give us a fair shot & make the best effort I can.

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dreamingoftigers
That's true. And when I consider the alternative, I am thankful every day. And I have thanked her & told her how much I respect her handling of this. I am determined to do my part to change our dynamic, but it takes two to make it better, so I can only hope she's as willing to work as I am. The one thing I want to do no matter how this turns out is give us a fair shot & make the best effort I can.

 

So really then you are headed down the right path (As long as it isn't just lip service) but time is going to have to play it out for you.:)

 

If you have to seperate in the future to get your bearings those things happen too. You can only worry about your part for now though. Too bad you stepped out, things would have been simpler without that.

 

Good luck

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willowthewisp

My ex was committment phobic, together nearly 20 years.

 

Sex and unusual feelings about it feature heavily in a person with committment phobia. Many committment phobics want sex but when they expereince that intimacy they feel the need to leave quickly afterwards. In your wifes case it seems she can't even get to the intimacy part, yet alone flee from it, she needs to avoid it altogether, if that is what is contributing to it? Just interesting that you mentioned the committment problems and the sex problem. Maybe they are unconnected? Maybe not?

 

I can recommend a good book its called He's Scared, Sh'e Scared by Stephen Carter.

 

Your wife may be reluctant of therapy, but if at some point she is willing to consider it the only treatment that works for committment phobia is Cognitive behavioural therapy and you need a qualified clinical psychologist to administer it, as it involves controlled exposure to the thing that produces the fear, if done incorrectly it could make the problem worse.

 

25 years is a long time to give up on, its devastating actually, I feel like my ex ripped a part of me away when he left me without warning, he has not admitted his problem to himself, at least your wife has done that now. Please try everything you can before you give up and please make sure she knows you will leave if you two can't fix this.

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Wow, 20 years. So you have some idea how I'm feeling.

 

I'm positive her sex issue is tied to her commitment issue. She made the connection herself, actually, in a conversation we had a couple of weeks ago.

 

I think I saw that book in B&N. I'll definitely check it out.

 

I'm a big proponent of Cognitive-Behavioral, and did it myself. I doubt she'll ever get to the point where she'd consider therapy for this. I think the best we can hope for is that she'll relent on marriage therapy, and I'm definitely going to continue to pursue this.

 

It IS devastating. Every day it hurts thinking about EITHER outcome, as well as all the work that needs to be done. I do need to make it clearer that we both have to work hard to improve things for us to stay together, and I absolutely plan to stick it out until we get it to work OR until we're sure we've done all we can. I'm so sorry your husband did that.

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willowthewisp
Wow, 20 years. So you have some idea how I'm feeling.

 

I'm positive her sex issue is tied to her commitment issue. She made the connection herself, actually, in a conversation we had a couple of weeks ago.

 

I think I saw that book in B&N. I'll definitely check it out.

 

I'm a big proponent of Cognitive-Behavioral, and did it myself. I doubt she'll ever get to the point where she'd consider therapy for this. I think the best we can hope for is that she'll relent on marriage therapy, and I'm definitely going to continue to pursue this.

 

It IS devastating. Every day it hurts thinking about EITHER outcome, as well as all the work that needs to be done. I do need to make it clearer that we both have to work hard to improve things for us to stay together, and I absolutely plan to stick it out until we get it to work OR until we're sure we've done all we can. I'm so sorry your husband did that.

 

I kind of get how you feel, my ex left me rather than the other way round and he did right after we finally booked our wedding with no warning. He even said he had kept his issues with me hidden on purpose! I know from having IC he is CP and his "reasons" were excuses. But anyway, I am getting off the subject!

 

I'm really pleased to hear that you are communicating your unhappiness to your wife, letting her know how serious it is and are willing to work on it to your fullest capacity. Losing a spouse of 25 years is like a death, it is good to see that you are not underestimating the pain it will bring. It has been two years for me and although I am moving on with my life and after a lot of therapy I am able not to think of him much when awake, I STILL dream about him every night. That I have no control over and everyday I wake up and am upset all over again, quickly followed by annoyance that I have to keep repeating this over an over when it has no point. I just want to get on with my life without him in it, yet I have to go through this because of his choice.

 

What I am trying to say is that is worth trying everything because the alternative is no quick fix either.

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willowthewisp

Just some more thoughts. I am training to be a solicitor right now and I know that the work hours are off the scale so maybe it i sthe job with your wife. Howver, having said that, my ex used to work 60 + hours a week as well (different job), it is common in a CP (commitment phobe) to cope with the problem by creating distance form you. Work is one way of doing this. A CP is in constant push/pull, they want love and intimacy yet they fear it, so they push - want the initmacy, then they pull - away from it by creating distance.

 

Another way of creating distance is spending an enormous amount of time on solo activities, for example, my ex played video games upstairs or went out with friends excessively.

 

The sex avoidance - this sounds like a fear of intimacy, which is essentially what CP is. If you feel comfortanble sharing the details here, how did she connect them?

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Death/dying is what it feels like, and I'm sorry you had to go through this. Some days it hits me how close I am to losing all this, and the sadness & pain are off the charts. Other days it feels so bad & lonely to be here that I can imagine moving on being an improvement. So it's been a pretty gut-wrenching roller coaster ride, and no real clear sky on either side of it.

 

That all makes sense, about CPs. It really struck me that she said that about herself, because she used to say it about me all the time. The way she connected it was that we had already been talking about our sexual issues & incompatibility. And then out of nowhere she said she's always had commitment issues. It was obvious that one topic triggered the other. I was so startled that she admitted this that I didn't follow up. But there are more conversations to come.

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NickFeek,

It's kind of bizarre but I feel like I'm the female version of you and your situation......

If you want to check out my situation, you can....

It's tough...

My husband and I have been married for almost 19 years and together over 22.... We have 2 kids and our history and memories is also a big reason why I am still with him. He is good to me but our sex life really sucks. He seems like my brother or father to me and that dynamic does not help the sex life either.

It's painful because in my heart I care about him but I know that he deserves more in a relationship and so do I....

 

I know this isn't helping you as far as advice but at least it will help you realize you're not alone.

Good luck.

Take Care.

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LexyGirl, I really appreciate you sharing that with me, and so sorry you're going through it too. It does help to know there's someone out there with such an amazingly similar situation. I hope at least one of us can figure this out :). Please let me know how things go, and I'll do the same.

 

Thanks.

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Alright Nick, its time to change your focus a bit.

 

This isn't about figuring out whats wrong with her, no book, website, or poster here is going to compare to the resource you already have at your disposal.... HER! You've mapped out pretty well how her actions are effecting you and are looking to repair that, but how are your actions (and your past actions) effecting her? Its not fixing you or fixing her, its fixing the marriage.

 

So lets look at it VERY BLUNTLY. She has troubles with commitment and intimacy and sounds like this has been an ongoing problem. You seem to shy away from conflict. You also cheated, although it was only once (which is alot like being shot in the chest "only once" to the other party). Your 6 months the other side of that now but admittedly utilize porn to the point of boredom. Soooooo, how would all that effect someone with fears of commitment?????

 

Then of course, things are not going as you would like and now your here asking if you should end it! I'll be honest, looking at the whole thing, your lucky to have what you do right now! She has commitment issues and you've made every wrong move in the CP handbook!

 

Im sorry if that all is too blunt, but it is important to see a clear view of what is happening on both sides. To be honest things are not being resolved because neither of you is giving the other much reason to want to. You here asking if its time to end your marriage rather then asking for help making it better says a lot and she is probably picking up on that from you as well. There is no check list that determines when its time for a marriage to end, marriages survive infidelity and abuse and marriages end over account balances and wall colors. Its up to the people in them and how much they value their marriage and how much they feel valued.

 

So i propose a new question for you to answer... 25 years together - Do YOU want to make it to 26?

 

TOJAZ

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have you told her - point blank- that you are considering ending the marriage?

 

honesty is key... without it you have nothing.

 

IF the M isn't what you thought it could be - either make the changes necessary to change things - or leave. no one says you HAVE to stay married to her. i divorced after 23 years with the same man... now 6 years later i wish i had done it MUCH sooner.

 

i was raised that you don't get divorced. i let go of that lie a long time ago - but it took me a lot of work to let go of some of the lies i was raised with... it's very freeing to live an authentic life - one that makes me and others happy instead of what others tell me i should or shouldn't be doing.

 

my relationship with my kids is mine. no one can take that away from me. i don't step into their relationship with their Dad - that is his and theirs =separate from mine.

 

find what makes you happy - then do that.

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Tojaz, that was well reasoned and right on point! Bluntness is what I/we need right now. I agree I've made many wrong moves, and that both of us need to be looking more toward each other.

 

To answer your question, it's a qualified yes. It would devastate all of us to end this marriage. But to go on without the right kind of hard work and changes will make no one happy. I wish I could say it was an unqualified yes, but things are just too painful and scary right now to give that answer.

 

Thank you!

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Tojaz, that was well reasoned and right on point! Bluntness is what I/we need right now. I agree I've made many wrong moves, and that both of us need to be looking more toward each other.

 

To answer your question, it's a qualified yes. It would devastate all of us to end this marriage. But to go on without the right kind of hard work and changes will make no one happy. I wish I could say it was an unqualified yes, but things are just too painful and scary right now to give that answer.

 

Thank you!

 

you are modeling what marriage looks like for your kids. they will choose what they see from you. do you want them to have the kind of M you model to them as their version of "normal?"

 

if you don't - then find what healthy looks like for you - then do THAT. with or without your wife... but to stay and show them that this unhealthy M is supposed to be healthy isn't useful for their future...

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2sunny, that's kind of why I gave a "qualified" yes. I want us to work to make those changes, but if we can't then I don't think it's healthy for any of us if we stay together.

 

We were also raised to believe divorce is a no-no. But I know so many couples on both sides of the marriage success line that I realize there are many choices we can make.

 

Definitely trying to find what healthy is for me, while also considering my wife & kids. I guess the bottom line is there's no easy road here, and the only thing we can hope for is that we're both honest enough to hash this out & know what the right answer is for us.

 

Thanks.

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