Going on a Journey

[trippi1432]

I posted this last week in another thread and was not going to start any new threads on LS while going on this "new ride", but many things are happening that I felt it may be beneficial to some on here who are trying to cope or heal. Disclaimer: This is MY ride, if you can take from it that is good, but it is not advice for what is exactly right for you, therefore please don't trash my thread!. Thank you.

 

The fact is, I've done alot of thinking today....and I am working on prioritizing what I need and what I don't need.

 

1. I don't need a man to be the other half of me nor do I really care about having one there for me either. It's much too difficult....I get so busy with my kid's problems and dramas, the work overload....and there are times that these issues make me not a good friend, less anything else to anyone.

 

2. I need a different job, but I NEED one that makes me happy....what I like to do. Currently I am working on a relocation with my company and am pushing hard for it. I might not get my first choice (New Mexico), but the second choice in TN isn't bad either. That, in itself, is a little glimmer of hope that makes it worth walking thru those doors everyday and hating it.

 

3. I need my children to respect the fact that this is my house and I am not the bank. I've been saying No a whole lot more these days....got holes in the walls to prove it....going to make son patch every one of those as well as replace the garage door that he broke. (Gunny - you will be happy to know that I found a 9 month program at an away camp that I think will be very good for him....working on the application process now.) One of the best things that I can say that has come from any of this is that I now know that I am not crazy. Son's school social worker talked to him for 30 minutes and finally asked him if he ever took any responsibility for his actions because all she kept hearing from him was excuses. My ex called son's psychiatrist to let her know what a horrifying control-freak b*tch I am....son's psychiatrist gave me her sympathy and has invited him to his son's sessions....she is hoping to work on his father too since he never takes responsibility for anything either.

 

4. I need to work on finding things that I like to do and stop letting people take up all my time. Set boundaries of what is acceptable and what I won't tolerate. For people who are worth it, I try to put them first, but it seems that this is at my own expense sometimes. I'm learning that if putting someone else first and caring about them becomes painful to me, it's time to walk away. That's not running, it's about stopping what is hurtful to each other.

 

5. I also need to stop caring about what other people think of me, my own opinion of me is what matters. I need to find ME again.

 

6. I need to stop worrying about being alone, there's nothing wrong with it and the demands are alot less than a relationship. There is some comfort in knowing that I am only responsible for me.

 

7. I need to buy another guitar, I miss the one I gave to my dad because it was easier to play....going on a journey and feel that many songs may come from it.

Edited March 10, 2010 by trippi1432

[unsureLP]

Thank you for sharing. I hope it's a good journey for you.

[trippi1432]

Been doing a lot of thinking and a lot of looking back on my life to figure out how I got to where I am today. One of the things that I realized is that, while I have worked to forgive others in my life, I forgot about forgiving myself.

 

Yesterday, during a phone conversation with my STBXH, I realized that I needed to forgive him...and much more, he needed to forgive himself. Yes, I know....broke NC, but this was finally a decent conversation with him instead of one of those dramatic breakdowns of us emotionally bashing each other. I also let him know that if he started sounding hateful, I was not going to talk to him, any time he started going to that hateful place, I reminded him and he took it down a notch.

 

As typical, instead of just stating what he wanted, he began to go through his validation of his feelings...why he took up with a GF immediately after splitting up (still maintains that it wasn't an affair), why he has alienated himself from his siblings and nephews and father after walking out of our 15 year relationship, (3 years of that married) and why he felt that our son (who is 14 years old) was snubbing him by not returning his phone calls and text messages.

 

I don't know if this is truly closure, but during the conversation I agreed with him that he doesn't need therapy to figure out his anxiety and low self-esteem, he felt good about that and I could hear the confidence in his voice. (Live and Let Live, he is his own person and I am not responsible for him. Hmm, that sounded a little Al-anon'ish I guess.)

 

He agreed that he would think about going to some of our son's counseling sessions to get to the bottom of how to fix their relationship. At first he stated that he would take our son to his choice of counselor since our son's current counselor only knows what our son and I have been working on and only our side of the issues. As it has been said here on LS many times, there are many sides to the story, yours...theirs....what people see...and the truth. He finally agreed that two different counselors having two separate versions would not be beneficial to helping our son through his emotions of our divorce or his behavior problems.

 

My STBXH fell out with his family because he stated that when he needed them, they weren't there for him for support. His father wouldn't lend him money, his nephews wouldn't lend him money...etc, etc. But he stated that he also felt that his own family chose sides and left him alienated. He also stated that he knew the drama around his family was a alienating factor in our marriage (I didn't care about them needing him, I cared about what it was doing to him which directly affected us. The stress he carried from those demands negatively impacted our marriage as he would unload that stress on me.) I told him that he needed to forgive them and set boundaries as he is worried that they will destroy his relationship with his GF like he claims they did with our marriage. He needs to work on those relationships one at a time to fix them.

 

He stated that he was sorry that he treated me badly during the marriage, he didn't know why, but he did the best he could. I told him that I know he gave his best with what he had to work with and I gave the best that I was able to as well. The fact is, both of us could have given each other better than that (spiritually and emotionally), but I don't feel that either of us really cared to know what that was. We could have, and should have, treated each other better. Together, we just didn't work in wanting to better the relationship. Internally, I know I did try to work on salvaging what I could at the end, but in hindsight, I am better off today and he will be too.

 

Lastly, he stated that he was sorry that he took up with a GF a few days after telling me he wanted to work on our marriage, still maintains it wasn't an affair. He thought I was out dating after he walked out, misunderstood and turned to someone else for comfort. I told him that he needed to forgive himself for that, he needs to do that for him to alleviate the guilt. He responded that he knows that he crossed a line that he can't take back and he was very sorry for that. To that I agree and wish him well.

 

Some people may think this is caving to a narcissist, but truly, it's about me getting some peace and being able to move on with my life. To him, it's validating his feelings and actions to which he is entitled to. For me to agree to them and validate them for him, if that helps me get to that peace...find my center and move on, then I am more than happy to validate them for him. We all want closure, some of us get that and some of us don't. But there are many forms of closure, sometimes that closure has to start within ourselves.

[trippi1432]

Thank you for sharing. I hope it's a good journey for you.

 

Thanks unsure, I moved my post back to you to your thread...very interesting situation for you to say the least. Welcome to LS.

[Gunny376]

(Gunny - you will be happy to know that I found a 9 month program at an away camp that I think will be very good for him....working on the application process now.)

 

I would investigate this closely and thoroughly. And I agree that the young lad needs an attitude adjustment, for without it? He's going to have himself a rough row to hoe a mile or more long through life.

 

Too bad that the Marine Corps changed from when I went in '75. Back in the day there was only two ways off of the island, (Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island, South Carolina).

 

As a Marine? Or dead!

 

I knew guys that were on the 'Island" for six to nine months. You were overweight, couldn't pass the initial physical fitness test? You got sent to PCP, Physical Conditioning Platoon, put on a diet of 'rabbit food' and intensive physical training.

 

Not sufficiently motivated? You got sent to Motivation Platoon for a day or two to three weeks. (Trust me, when you left there even after one day? Your @zz wanted to become a Marine!)

 

If you had problems with your attitude after that? You got sent to "Correctional Custody Platoon" That's where you dug pits and busted rocks with a nine pound sledge hammer in the hot South Carolina sun!

 

But I laugh at so called "correctional boot camps" you see on Tru TV and such.

 

Why? Because they're only three months long in length. It wasn't three months of Marine boot camp that turn my life around from the "Wild Child" I was in my youth.

 

It was the other 45 months of my initial 48 month enlistment. It was the discipline, the leadership, the comradery, and 1st Sgt Veranzia playing vertical bounce off the wall basketball (Guess who was the basketball? ) with my happy self.

 

So I would encourage you to thoroughly look into and investigate any and all programs. And there are some really good programs out there. But you need to contact the state AG's office, local law enforcement, BBB, local newspapers, reporters.

 

And any good program is going to have to be for more than three months. You're going to have to 'break him down' before you can build him back up.

 

That means teaching him such things as self discipline, self control, anger management, self respect, respect for others, respect for property, respect for the property of others, ~ the list is endless!

 

This is something you throughly and completly want to investigate trippi1432. Topside, underneath, indside and out!

 

As I said there are some really good programs out there, but there are some that could end up with you burying your beloved son!

[trippi1432]

Thanks Gunny, I am checking it out and getting references. The good thing is that DS has been going to school and doing better. He got his school choice for next year and knows that if I put him in this program, he will lose that. Consequences....he's learning them.

 

As to the STBXH, although not as hateful as usual, calls me up and work and starts fussing about our son being sick and not coming to visit this weekend. Griping again about DS not returning phone calls, text messages...etc. STBXH feels that this is my fault because I have physical and legal custody with him having reasonable visitation. Because of those words on paper, he holds me liable that his 14 year old son alienates him.

 

Granted, I have been lax in making our son go to his father's for a weekend. Basically, at the DS's age, I feel that it is up to him if he wants to go or not. But STBXH did state that he felt I was not supporting his role as DS's father by forcing him go every other weekend. I maintain that he and his son need to work out their relationship in therapy and he should attend the sessions his son already goes to. He simply will not do this as he does not want to be "analyzed".

 

I'm just wondering if I AM doing something wrong here....for years while we were together I tried to get him to take a more active role in his son's life....he did some, but never really established a "bond" with him because he yelled at our DS, my DD or me all the time. I was blamed for making him feel like a bad father for asking him to go throw the baseball with son, put a puzzle together....etc, etc. I have already been both mother and father to my DD, I'm not sure why one person has to take on both roles when both parents are in the house. Now that he is no longer in the house, it's still MY responsibility now to help my STBXH be a good father???? Am I wrong to not force my son to go to his Dad's every other weekend? Should I worry and even care that my walk-away STBXH feels unsupported by me and alienated by his son??? Confused....

[PWSX3]

If they are old enough to make up there own mind then I would say; it's there choice. Sure you have to maybe suggest it once in a while but that's it.

 

My former W also said it was up to me to tell my 19yr old to see her. Now he is 20 & she only sees him maybe for lunch on Sunday. I feel it is there responsibility to also connect with there kids. They are the one that left not us.

[trippi1432]

If they are old enough to make up there own mind then I would say; it's there choice. Sure you have to maybe suggest it once in a while but that's it.

 

My former W also said it was up to me to tell my 19yr old to see her. Now he is 20 & she only sees him maybe for lunch on Sunday. I feel it is there responsibility to also connect with there kids. They are the one that left not us.

 

True, they are the ones who left and I really feel it is more their guilt that makes them feel that they have to push that responsibility to us....maybe it validates their point of view that they were the victim in the relationship....again, not taking any responsibility. I push back that he needs to build that relationship, it's not up to me to force it.

[LisaUk]

Hi Trip

 

The view of the courts in the UK is that if the "child" is old enough to understand what is going on (ie over 10) then it is their choice who they live with and if they see the other parent. Your son is 14, no court would ORDER him to see his father if he does not want to. You may want to point this out the ex, that you have no control over a person with their own mind. I know your son has emotional problems and that complicates the matter, but still, forcing him when he doesn't want to is not going to mkae things better, only worse, your ex has no right to expect you to do that IMHO.

 

I find it kind of amusing that he doesn't wnat to be "analysed". A narccissit that doesn't want to be analysed, huh who would have thought it?

[trippi1432]

Hi Trip

 

The view of the courts in the UK is that if the "child" is old enough to understand what is going on (ie over 10) then it is their choice who they live with and if they see the other parent. Your son is 14, no court would ORDER him to see his father if he does not want to. You may want to point this out the ex, that you have no control over a person with their own mind. I know your son has emotional problems and that complicates the matter, but still, forcing him when he doesn't want to is not going to mkae things better, only worse, your ex has no right to expect you to do that IMHO.

 

I find it kind of amusing that he doesn't wnat to be "analysed". A narccissit that doesn't want to be analysed, huh who would have thought it?

 

:lmao: Thanks Lisa! That was great! (Still laughing).

 

Now, if only the narcissist would see that his son is old enough to make those decisions for himself and quit blaming me...sigh.

[LisaUk]

:lmao: Thanks Lisa! That was great! (Still laughing).

 

Now, if only the narcissist would see that his son is old enough to make those decisions for himself and quit blaming me...sigh.

 

He never will through Trip, that's the essence of naricissim, its all about him, he is incapable of seeing it form anothers perspective, no empathy.

[trippi1432]

He never will through Trip, that's the essence of naricissim, its all about him, he is incapable of seeing it form anothers perspective, no empathy.

 

Exactly, and it is so hard when both people are trying to see it only from their point of view....it really gets nowhere fast. Everyone gets hurt.....no empathy, no compassion...

[Gunny376]

Should you force DS14 to spend time, text, call, speak with his Father?

 

In a word? No.

 

You should however be "nurturing" and encouraging of his doing so, in that DS14 isn't doing so or following through with such out mis-placed devotion and loyalty to you. Reminding DS14 to call and send cards for holidays, suggesting that DS14 call his Dad just to say Hi!

 

Encouraging and nurturing ~ but its not your place to make DS14 do so. If he doesn't want to nor feel the need to? Then leave it at that for the moment. And then gently pick up the "encouragement and nurturing" again down the road.

 

I would suggest that you start and keep a journal. Either handwritten or on the computer. If you use the computer make sure you print it out and keep it in a binder.

 

Handwritten is better, as it helps in releasing pent-up emotions your feeling at the moment. I have both my Grandmothers and Great Grandmothers Diary's and Journals and have received great delight and insight from reading them.

 

Years from now when DS14 has become DS34, or DS44 he will be able to look back and see things in a different light than he does now. This I can promise you!

 

Not only that if you do so? As I have done? You yourself will see how much you've changed, have grown, and learned.

 

In the Marine Corps, many if not any and all NCO's, SNCO's and officers carry around government issued 8 x 5 cloth bound books in which we write down notes, memo's, specifications, etc. I've got about 150+ of them in my footlocker. I sometimes thumb through them. It helps me recall names, dates, places, events that I would have otherwise have forgotten long ago.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Gunny376

[trippi1432]

Should you force DS14 to spend time, text, call, speak with his Father?

 

In a word? No.

 

You should however be "nurturing" and encouraging of his doing so, in that DS14 isn't doing so or following through with such out mis-placed devotion and loyalty to you. Reminding DS14 to call and send cards for holidays, suggesting that DS14 call his Dad just to say Hi!

 

Encouraging and nurturing ~ but its not your place to make DS14 do so. If he doesn't want to nor feel the need to? Then leave it at that for the moment. And then gently pick up the "encouragement and nurturing" again down the road.

 

 

Thanks Gunny....in therapy today with my DS, we had an open discussion about his father and the DS's feelings. There is still some anger there on the DS part, which evidently built up while he was living with him for those 7 days.

 

He's very upset that his father texts him while he is in class and then reads him a riot act later, after school, when DS texts or calls him. Just this morning, DS got a text that was evidently supposed to be going to the GF and not his son. Something about "DS being sick, not coming this weekend. Brought tears to my eyes.". Now DS thinks he did this on purpose to make him feel bad.

 

A four-teen year old boy should be able to talk to his father without my intervention. Anything that I have to say just gets thrown back at me like a slap in the face. I have been supportive...son even told his therapist that I nag him to return his dad's phone calls....but even she agreed that it is not my place to drag him over there and just put him out.

 

So...here I am again...the accused. BOUNDARY TIME!! I will only take ownership in the part that I play to STBXH's accusations...other than that, it's between them. I will play my part in supporting the father/son relationship....I have for four-teen years. Moving on from this one....NEXT issue please!

 

Glad to report though that son is doing better, going to school and all caught up with his make-up work.

[trippi1432]

Update: Good news is that son is doing much better.

 

 

Bad news is that I am not.......blank....just blank. My head is pounding, my eyes are tired from crying and I am just tired.....tired.

[trippi1432]

Well, son seems to be doing much better and that is even being recognized by the school. He's finally doing the things his therapist have been telling him to do and taking his medication daily. That has really helped his mood swings.

 

His father took him to his therapy session this past Monday, and even attended the session. Not sure how that went, but son informed me that both he and his dad think the therapist is EVIL!! (I guess that means I'm crazy because I like her! She tells it like it is.)

[PWSX3]

His father took him to his therapy session this past Monday, and even attended the session. Not sure how that went, but son informed me that both he and his dad think the therapist is EVIL!! (I guess that means I'm crazy because I like her! She tells it like it is.)

Maybe that is because they realize she is right & they don't want to admit they need the help. It is always harder to blame ourselves then it is to blame others.

[trippi1432]

Maybe that is because they realize she is right & they don't want to admit they need the help. It is always harder to blame ourselves then it is to blame others.

 

 

Thanks PW, honestly...that can go all sorts of ways. I spent most of the night tossing and turning and woke up a bundle of nerves. I had a dream about the ex, one of my best friends and my mother in the dream. Ex and I were still separated, but I was standing on a curb thinking about walking out into traffic in front of a bus. I don't know why...I think it is the weather...hitting spring I guess.

 

As much as I just bragged on my son this morning, he woke up not feeling well and didn't go to school....made him go to the doctor. First day back at home with me since last Thursday....can't help but wonder if there's a conspiracy going on to make me look bad. (I truly hope that is not the case.)

 

Driving into work, I don't know why, but I just started crying. I couldn't really put my finger on it, but then it finally hit me. DS stayed with his dad Monday night, but I called him to find out when he was coming home. I could hear my STBXH and others in the background, sounding really happy. WTF??? Why? Fifteen years I spent, miserable for most of it, with a man who couldn't even be a husband or father to us....but there he is, being one for a woman he barely knows. Him - quit drinking, quit smoking, sounds happy. I can't explain it....it makes me sad, but really mad at the same time...at him and myself.

 

It's not that I want him back, but I wish I knew why he couldn't be the man in my life that I needed and vise-versa. He doesn't even know why he couldn't bring himself to treat me better. All in all, been a long stressful day and I am happy for my nerve pills. Think it's time for a nap to give the brain a rest.

[PWSX3]

I know our situations are different but it took the divorce or her leaving for me to realize "I" needed to do something.

 

Now that its almost been a year I can see where the former W was right in a lot of things she said.

The part I don't understand is why I didn't see it then? At the time I really did believe I was doing what was right, I was protecting my spouse, I was being the man of the house. But then you throw in pride, selfishness, etc. & it gets out of hand.

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at is; at the time I didn't realize how bad I was treating the former W but now I can see some of my faults & I'm treating my G/F so much better then I did the FW. It's not because I feel she deserves it but at the time I didn't know any better.

 

Now that might not be the reason your stbxh is treating her better then he did you, I doubt he has been doing the work to better himself. There could also be the reason he is still trying to win her over, show her his "GOOD" side, which we all know can only last maybe a year or two before the real person finally comes out.

 

My buddy told me once, when we first start dating we have our representative show up on the date. It's the person we want them to "think" we are, but that won't last, sooner or later the real person shows up.

 

Hope this makes since, it's way past my bedtime. :laugh:

[Gunny376]

Wow you guys are beating yourself up way, way too much? Why don't I just get Vinnie and tha' boys and we'll save you the effort?

 

You did the best that you could at the time! Your doing the best that you can at the moment!

 

And the best of you is yet to come for all of it!

 

I'm not going to sit here and nominate myself for "Father Of The Year" or "Husband Of the Century" I was far, far from such, but I was even farther from being the worse.

 

About two-thirds or better of it was just living Life?

 

Life is what happens to us when we make other plans.

 

None of us started out thinking, "Gezz I'm going to do everything I can to make this poor SOB and myself miserable! Hating Life and everyone else! Yea! That's what I want! Sign me up for a lifetime of that!"

 

Instead most of us started out young, dumb, a little bit stupid, a whole lot of naive, a lot of ignorance (just didn't know any better) without near enough of experience, a poor skill set when it comes to communication, how to argue fairly, and to be in a relationship?

 

Financially most of us started out on shoestring and a prayer. Back in the day our idea of a coffee table was a cable spool, and our idea an entertainment center was some cinder blocks and 2X2's.

 

Stacked milk crates made for bookcases?

 

And if you had cigarette burns on the 'cable spool" of a coffee table? That was cool, because? It was a cable spool!

 

You did and gave the best you had at the time?

 

Now do and give the best you've got!

[trippi1432]

Valid points Gunny and yes, I've used that before....too young to know what we wanted...my first marriage. Perhaps the same issues in my second marriage since it was his first long-term relationship.

 

When my STBXH told me that he didn't know why he couldn't have treated me better, he was actually being sincere...it wasn't a jab this time, but more of a realization. I know that he loved me for as long and as much as he was able to understand that....but I don't think I ever loved him as much...no, I know I didn't. I made a vow after my first husband that I would never love someone so much that I get lost. I really think that made me distant, cold and harsh with my second husband. I probably did seem controlling, even though it was for the best in my mind, for our future.

 

One thing he was right about, I put my job ahead of him. I put in long hours that are paying off now, which he knew they would....but they were at the expense of losing my marriage. Yes, those are lessons learned and nothing that I can do about that now. I know that I am letting go of that part of my life, and I am doing ok with that...but there are so many times that I wonder what I could have done to change things.

[Gunny376]

I put my job ahead of him. I put in long hours that are paying off now, which he knew they would....but they were at the expense of losing my marriage.

 

I didn't full quote you because I know that uses up server space.

 

Others may want to go back and read your last post!

 

But it just like my doing my Twenty in the Corps?

 

You can play now and pay for the rest of your Life?

 

Or you can pay now and play for the rest of your Life?

 

Things get bad enough? I can move to Mexico or the Philippines and live the life of a King off of my military retirement!

 

Do the whole Shawshank Redemtion thing!

[Gunny376]

You've got to change you aviatar! :love::love::love:

[nobmagnet]

:love::love:

 

trippi what an emotional journey you are on rightnow:confused:

 

As far as DS14 goes i have a DD17 and i have to encourage her to contact her Dad. She doesnt like going and it is indeed up to her, however i do insist she tells him herself. Since the age of 12 i have insisted she tell him she wasnt going to visit because i explained to her that it was not my decision and her father thinks it is. She needed to take responsibility for her discion.

 

Its not harsh. Your son struggles with reponsibility and this is a small part of him understanding that what he does directly impacts on you as far as STBxH is concerned. It needs to be explained calmly so he understands and feels a little empathy for you. Empathy in turn starts the respect process which indeed he shows little sign of. Small steps in taking responsibility and consistant reminding why might help.

 

You STBXH is as you have rightly stated is a narsassist. We all need to understand (myself being the victim of one) that they are manipulative to get what they want. He is doing to this woman what he did to you. Charming her, changing for her (giving up ciggies ect) she is soooooo impressed with all the things he is doing for her. She is sucked in. Just as we were. You and I both understand it just wont last. Dont be angry at his apparent happiness take a step back and remind yourself you too were fooled by this man. You are not thick, never were, they fooled us. and he is fooling her too.

 

You have got so much on your plate right now my sweet your head is spinning and you wanna get off right??

 

My advice to you I shall be taking today. STOP. You cannot control everything around you. A job is a job. A problematic kid is a kid. deep breath take a step back and laugh at the head spin you are!! TLC and im not going to take life so seriously. Thats my plan. I will let you know if it works for me!!!!

 

love ya Nobby xxxxxxxxx

[trippi1432]

You can play now and pay for the rest of your Life?

 

Or you can pay now and play for the rest of your Life?

 

Things get bad enough? I can move to Mexico or the Philippines and live the life of a King off of my military retirement!

 

Do the whole Shawshank Redemtion thing!

 

I think this is my quandry now.....I recently hit that level at work where we were aiming to be financially comfortable....take more vacations, have fun...no worries. Did he emotionally support me during all the stress to get there.....NO, he didn't. Most of the time he made it worse, but as much as he said that he hated my job, it didn't stop him from going out and getting more credit and loans, sometimes without conferring with me until the bill came due or it cut into his "lifestyle".

 

The thing is, I feel like he walked away with more lessons than I have right now. He treats her better because he knows that he didn't treat me well, he respects her because he wasn't mature enough when we met to understand mutual respect. He doesn't raise his voice to her or in front of her because she will give him a "look" according to DS, he doesn't want her to think of him badly. He includes her in his plans and supports her going to college, never with me. If she were sick and needed to go to the hospital, he would be at her side, never was with me. It's almost like he has to prove to himself that I was the cause of everything.

 

I guess I am trying to figure out where I was lacking...why was I undeserving....not FOR him, but FOR ME. I can sit and blame his narcissism all day long, and yes, as Nobby and PW have pointed out as well...he's on his best behavior right now with her....very true. Is it because now he is ready to have a real relationship (the one he couldn't have with me for 15 years) or is he truly showing only his good side right now. Why do people have to be so "fake" at first, why can't they just be themselves so you know what you are getting into?